Kietaro1

Ok I know that there are some higher levels that bot for levels but after thinking about the following I think it is ridiculous to think that the majority of bots are running for levels. I will let the following assumptions speak for themselves. I have no idea what the current going rate of gold is on the black market or whatever it is that RSGP is sold. The following will be conducted using ASSUMPTIONS made by me. If the assumptions are wrong, focus on the point and not the example. This is just to show you what might motivate botters. My assumptions are going to be that RSGP can be sold to RWT sites for $.50 (50 cents) per million. I am thinking that I am low balling it intentionally to show a point (because I have heard that it goes for about $1/million on the sites so I think it is safe to say that they pay half of what they sell it for. Again THESE ARE ASSUMPTIONS AND NOT THE POINT I AM MAKING. Now let us also assume that the bot is doing several activities that range in gp/h for calculation purposes. One bot will be making 50k/h, another will make 100k, another at 250k, and lastly a bot will be making 1m/h. We are going to also assume that each bot runs for 20 hours a day allotting for down time for whatever reason. The first bot, making 50k/h brings in 1m/day. That is worth a whopping 50 cents. Over the course of a 30 day month, players would see an income of $15. That is enough money to pay for members on nearly 3 accounts. The second bot, making 100k/h would double that income and make a total of $30 a month adding up to $360/year. The third bot, making 250k/hour would make 5m/day or $2.50/day. That is a smooth $75/month. And the last bot, making 1m/h brings in a whopping 20m/day which using our assumptions is a nice $10/day or $300/month. This is money made for practically nothing. Let us go ahead and assume that you have to pay for a bot. Now again I am not sure what they cost and CBA to go look it up. I am going to say that the bot that kills green dragons costs $20. I am pretty sure that green dragons can easily make 250k/h as 250k/(4k/bone) = 63 dragons/h. As I have read several times in this thread that bots are pretty intuiative, I am going to assume that 63 dragons is no problem, I mean that is 3 bank trips/h. If this is possible (and I am sure it is) then the person who used the bot would make their money back in 9 days max even accounting for the time it took for the bot to get high enough level to fight green dragons, and we all know that a character can achieve high enough combat in order to kill greens fairly quickly. That gives the bot another 21 days to make strict profit. Then profit forever (unless there are monthly costs but I have no idea). Now let us look at some more possibilities: If the botter has access to more than one computer or if multiple bots can be run on one machine then they can multiply their profits. Using the case of 250k/h let us imagine that the 'bot farm' has a total of 10 bots running 20 hours a day. That is $25/day and $750/month. If they could make 1m/hour then they could make $3000/month which is more than me after taxes are taken out. That is equivalent to a job where the person makes 18.75/h and has to actually work for it. Botting takes no work, needs no degree and can be done by anyone. Want to know why people bot? Money. Levels are irrelevant. That argument only comes from those that actually care about the game or are projecting the fact that they would bot for levels on other people. If I botted it would be for cash. For giggles I went ahead and did calculations for a bot that was collecting frost dragon bones. I have heard that they CAN make around 3m gold per hour. If that bot ran for 23 hours a day for a 30 day month the botter would make $2070/month on one account. Now go ahead and do the math on 10 of those accounts doing the same thing. I got $20,700/month. Yeah I am nearly positive that the majority of botters are in it for the money.

Skilling was mostly [cabbage] back in 06, save rc and a few others. Slayer then barrows sealed skillings fate Indeed but I predate 06 and remember when crafting gold to sell in Port Sarim was deemed one of the quicker ways to generate cash. No one had nature runes so forget that mess. Gold jewelry was where it was.

Well hold on now guys, this could be a viable thread. Ignore the fact that he simply made the thread as a rant for what he wanted to say. Instead what is the one thing that you hate more than anything in this game? See it is a discussion thread now. Personally I dislike the fact that all of my skilling is pointless now that the game has shifted into a combat based MMORPG where all skills are better trained after maxing combats. Very frustrating to be honest.

I personally am not mad about that at all. If you read my example of the hunting advice, I was pretty clear that I support the ideas that Grimy has. EDIT: And you are not the only one that has made that comment I do not think. The comment was geared towards you but to be read by all. Such a small percentage of players should not be the basis of a side of an argument.

Well I am sure that there is some player, some where that enjoys cooking and does nothing else besides cooking when they are in the mood to enjoy it. Sure I will give you that. But me admitting that to be true accomplishes what exactly? That is not the point as there will always be the person that enjoys crazy things. Heck even your example of the psychopath shows that there are even people that like to kill people. That does not make it normal or even something to base a discussion on. Now Grimy on the other hand creates tangents that he can defend but has nothing to do with the discussion. I, and I think Sir, have never once cared about outside stimuli. That is not the subject of this discussion or even the thread. The whole point of the thread is what about RUNESCAPE is fun. Youtube is not Runescape. The Big Bang Theory is not Runescape. Skype, vent, aim, facebook chat are not Runescape. Runescape is cooking, fletching, herblaw, firemaking, hunter, etc. The point of this thread was not to discuss what about life is enjoyable, it was to discuss GAMEPLAY that is fun. Now step back from the conversation and look at it from that point of view, one that does not involve anything but Runescape and come back to comment on what gameplay of RUNESCAPE is fun.

Yet you continue to present your argument as such. "thats the external stimuli being fun, not the actual skill." Again, learn to read, my argument is that the skill isnt fun, any external stimuli is as the name implys, external. The external stimuli and the act of training the cooking skill are one in the same. Most players (with the exception of you) do not separate the two. I don't particularly care whether or not cooking is fun in itself -- that's not my argument. But it is ours.

Yet you continue to present your argument as such. Instead of remaining in your own shoes, why not try to at least try to walk around in ours so that you might see what we are trying to say. As your argument has reached personal attacks, you are losing creditability. We understand that afk skills are made enjoyable by what you can do alongside them but THE SKILLS THEMSELVES ARE NOT FUN!

But see, it reality he can. Just so much as you can connect them, he can look at them separately. In truth Sir has been able to really see what I meant when I made this thread. Sure I have given up over the course of the few days after I originally posted the thread, but my intent was to show that there are very few things in Runescape that are genuinely fun in and of themselves. I created this thread as a companion thread to the efficiency thread to show how shallow that argument is. I would be willing to bet that 15 year old arguments aside, most players do not find much in Runescape enjoyable. The outside stimuli as Sir puts it is the important factor. If players were not able to watch videos, chat, or otherwise had to be completely focused on afk skills, I am sure that there would be far less players with those stats as high. Whether you choose to look at it that way or not, the point Sir and I are trying to make is that most of the gameplay in Runescape is not fun. Everything else that goes with it is fun but the game itself is very rarely fun. I am sorry but click, wait, loot, repeat is not a fun combat system (as seen in slayer, often touted as the best skill). Now PvP on the other had, while still being click and wait in essence is far more involved and thus can be fun. That is the difference that I am trying to show. Skills such as herblaw, fletching, or cooking are not fun. Things that actually involve the player are and can be fun. Something that you do not have to pay attention to is not fun. That would be akin to saying that you left a metal fender outside in your back yard. While you wait for it to rust, you enjoy a basketball season, max out some prestiges in Battlefield, and have your first kiss. Then when you go to retrieve the fender, you say that you had a blast letting the fender rust. I am sure that you realize that this is a ridiculous example but I hope that you can understand it's context instead of focusing on the example. Anyway ,regardless of what you are doing alongside the skill, the skills themselves are not fun. That is the point. So when someone asks what is the best way to get hunter to level 70, I would first recommend that they don't but then give them the fastest way to get it. Wasting anymore time would be tedious and not enjoyable.

Talk to a war vet.. Or people that were good at high school football and then done nothing else with their lives. Guess they might not be communities though... Anyway, I'd like duel anywhere. Or free trade. MAN! I had totally forgot about Duel anywhere. I remember being in Karajama Volcano fighting lessers are level 45 ish (after getting protect from melee). After scoring a rune med or running low on prayer, have someone duel you, unequip all your items and free trip to Lumby. Best teleport in the game it was ;D

Most communities have not lost as much as we have.

Wow guys... what the heck is wrong with this forum? Is it possible to have any kind of discussion without people jumping down each other's throats? The last page or so has very little to do with the discussion and yet you are blatantly attacking one another. Dang. If replies are directed at another player directly, then your reply is not wanted. Troll elsewhere please. On Topic: After reading many of your replies, I have decided that ‘fun’ and ‘enjoyment’ should be differentiated. If I were to define ‘fun’ I would say that it is the active enjoyment of an activity. ‘Enjoyment’ on the other hand is more passive. It can take the form of fun but is often more than just actively having fun. Grinding is a good example of something that is not fun (most times) but ultimately ends in enjoyment. When playing Runescape perhaps there is less fun involved in gameplay than some other MMORPGS. On the other hand it would seem that there is far more opportunity for enjoyment. To further explain, I dislike many of the game mechanics in Runescape. The click and wait aspect of combat, the click and wait aspect of skills, the lack of challenge in most of Runescape’s bosses, and the lack of skill based content has very little to offer me in the area of fun. Sure the occasional high hit is a thrill, the expensive or rare drop is often greeted with excitement, and the accomplished goal is met with pride, but most of this is accomplished passively alongside some YouTube watching or other internet activity. I highly doubt that there are very many players that find themselves paying attention to every detail in Runescape. I think this is a testimony to the lack of fun (using my definition) that most of Runescape seems to have. To contrast this, there are other games that fit more of the ‘fun’ definition that I have given. Games such as Team Fortress 2, Halo Reach, or Modern Warfare 2 have active combat that one might consider fitting my definition of fun. Games such as Fable 2, Cake Mania, or Tetris are games that require active use of skill to succeed. World of Warcraft, Everquest, and Star Wars Galaxies all offer bosses that are a challenge to defeat. Even veteran players can find themselves dying to bosses in these games (much like Draemonheim but when it matters a little more). All of these games have better versions of what is available in Runescape but we still find ourselves coming back to Runescape time and again. I think enjoyment has a little to do with that.

Oh, I agree whole heartedly. I was just wondering more about how players find things such as slayer fun. Or woodcutting. The skill itself.

It seems that defining fun is more difficult that I had planned. That or I was not clear with what I was asking. When thinking of enjoyable, 'fun' skills many players, including you, say that Slayer is the skill that most players seem to enjoy. If we take that as a point of reference, why is Slayer fun? Because as your reply is, it is a blanket statement that really does nothing to explain what you find fun about Runescape. In other words, my question is not 'What is fun about Runescape'. Instead I am looking for a deeper understanding of why you think any particular thing is fun. Everyonedies for instance gave an example of something he enjoys doing and gave a reason for why that is. Some people could very well say that clicking a monster, waiting for it to die, looting it, and then moving to the next is a very good way to define combat in Runescape. There is not really a 'can I do this task' question that comes with some games. Instead it is 'how long will this take?' (as can be seen in the efficiency thread). Slayer is very similar except that it is a certain, assigned creature that players must kill that is often more generous with what it leaves behind. This is obviously not an enjoyable way of viewing this loveable skill. As such my question is How is what you find fun fun?,

Is Runescape fun? So many times we, as players, see the moniker of 'fun' being thrown around. This usually has the purpose of defending a certain tactic that other players may not like. It can also be to defend one's beliefs about how to play the game. But in every case, the reason of it 'being fun' is the only evidence offered. It seems that 'fun' has become a blanket statement that, though surely situational, seems to cover all facets of gameplay. To every player fun means something different. It's definition has been made to suit the playstyles of the individual playing. To me however, there is not much that Runscape has to offer that is 'fun'. Note: The 'fun' that I have in Runescape is not defined by me smiling and having a good time. That does happen though it is rare. Instead if I were to give fun a definition that explains why I play the game, it would be to say that I enjoy accomplishment. Following this idea, I want to point out that I have every quest complete, have mastered every position in Barbarian Assault (and never bought a piece of armor), a cape in a skill that I have liked since classic, and a couple more just to trim it. I own a fire cape, I have killed Bork, the skeletal horror, and have a pheonix pet. Heck I spent this last weekend power leveling herblaw simply to complete the Seer's Diary. This is how I have 'fun' though nothing about it is fun in the sense of enjoyment. The finished product however is what I like. In light of that statement I am sure there are many of you who disagree. I am sure that many of you do have fun. So my question is "how do you have fun in Runescape?".

Show where this rule is. I meant tip.it's rules by the way. Gonna check on it... Edit : from tip.it forum rules 1.5 - Naming Names Naming people or their characters in a negative light is not permitted. That person is not able to defend themselves or their actions and what seems like an inappropriate action (which can often be a simple misunderstanding) can lead to a negative reaction against that person But as I see it, kierato isn't naming anyone in a negative light. All that pic shows is some botters that are "broken, and not naming anyone specifically, even if the names are shown. This I did not cast them in a negative light. They cast themselves in a negative light. And they are present on all worlds pretty much.

lool

Good job being totally ignorant of current events Or not caring about a BS sport. I mean I hate to break it to you but very few people care about soccer here in America.

I am sorry but I really do not see it this way at all. This has absolutely nothing to do with potential loss. There is no boss in this game that is 'hard', all GWD bosses can be nearly afk'd, and slayers mindlessly slaughter things by the thousands. Combat is not the best money maker because of risk. It is because Jagex wants it that way. The most expensive items in the game are collected through monster drops. Outside of rares, there is not a single skill related item that even touches combat gear in profit (though I'll give you royal set from Kinglys but I really feel this is more of a result of manipulators need of a rare item than actual worth). This game is geared for combat and skills only serve as a means for players to do combat. Sure there are skillers (myself included) that enjoy that side of the game more but there will never be money in it. Want to know why? Drop tables. Pure and simple. There is not a single skill based item that is not collectible through combat. Want seeds, kill giants, want bars, kill dragons, want anything.. there is a monster for that. Until Jagex reduces skill based items from drop tables and puts a need for skill produced items, there will very rarely be profit in skills. Consumable gathering skills are the exception to the rule but even then, drop tables include those items too. Noted fish, logs, and ores are very common drops it seems. Heck my kingdom nets me a handsome amount of coal, maples, and fish every day. I make money from those consumables and I cannot remember the last time I touched a hatchet, harpoon, or God-forbide a pick. Hunter items are pretty useless outside of a select few (chins for range and the summons) that net a decent profit. These are not part of any drop table that I know of and seem to enjoy their rather stable money-making prices. See a trend here? I think I am going to woodcut.

Hmg no new gwd update b uslesfgh122!!2 Granted, I have not tried the new content, I still feel your comment is very arogant. Not that you are the only one that comes off this way here but I am going to take this time to stand upon my soapbox. From what I have seen, skimming through content on three sites of information, this content offers little outside of humor and slight diversion. Sure that might be it's purpose but I think what evil_eye was discussing was how useless it is in the grand scheme of Runescape. It seems that even people here were able to complete the content very shortly after it was released. They have their useless wig, small amounts of attack/defense experience, and their humorous musings. In Glienoir though, what does that offer? Not much. I think that was the point, and if it wasn't please excuse me evil_eye. If it wasn't theirs, it is mine. But see this is my opinion; my paradigm of the game. I have a right to it just as much as you do. And everyone else for that matter. I feel however that comments like yours are what has made this community feel like an elitest culture where as in the past it has been a welcomed change from other Runescape Communities. And then you may not have meant it that way. This is the main reason that I hope you do not feel like I am attacking you. I am not, but just because he has a different opinion than, does not mean it is less important than yours.

I'll take that bet. And NOW I'm excited about the content. See I am not hard to please. It does not take much. That 50k is as good as mine.

I really hate to be a MHL but this month really seems lacking. I have never liked the idea of the court cases because it really does not seem to 'fit' Runescape. Given that the cases are to be structured like modern cases of evidence, prosecutors, defenses... how is that fantasy? Then the rewards. Costume rewards seem fitting but as these are dependant on rare drops, it seems like another Royal set that serves no purpose except to cost money. a status symbol if you will. I however see this as plausible for the content and will probably be a good addition. The combat experience makes no sense. I mean I understand that prosecuting would be 'attacking' the defendant and the defense would be, well, defense but it seems that the whole thing focus more on logic which to me would better fit magic. I don't know... just not up my ally. The effigies seem promising but at the same time seem like a small focus of content. I do not mean that to show that 'a small number of people are high level blah blah blah' but in that it seems like once again we are going to get the chance to get rare drops for bonus experience. Screw experience, give me something worth doing. All skills are easy to do given time so make that time better, do not just speed it up /soapbox. The quest is promising but how is 3 quests and an activity out doing 3 quests and an activity? (summer quest series + Corporeal Best) :P Besides, I love quests. So in my opinion this month is lack-luster at best. I am glad to see the return of BTS but am not excited about any of the content. I am sure that the promised activity will one day make me eat my words (as the Corp Beast is amazing fun) but right now, Meh!

Perhaps but even in lost consumers and/or producers people are still taken out of what has made Runescape... well Runescape.

But then, if you Dungeoneer, you will need no money.

Now I make no claims as to being an expert on Dungeoneering or even the economy of Runescape. Heck to that end, I am a pretty self contained player that has much of all that I need. It seems to me however, that due to the nature of Dungeoneering, many players that would usually provide things for the economy may find themselves in the bellows of Daemonheim instead. I think that since Daemonheim is self contained it could potentially create a hole that other players used to fill. Unlike other activities in Runescape, Dungeoneering has levels, worthwhile rewards, and is actually really fun. In the past, other things that may have caused players to take a small detour from their regular gaming were soon forgotten and players resumed their positions as wood cutters, fishers, or flax collectors [etc]. Dungeoneering however could keep players interested for large portions of time and judging by the Runescape homepage, Jagex seems to want this. Even the level cap of 120 seems to promote the idea that Jagex wants players playing this for a long time to come. We can all agree that higher levels outside of Daemonheim can and do benefit players trying their best to complete the next floor. There however is NO absolute need of those levels and a player could spend all of their playing time in Daemonheim. Now a very dramatic and over the top view of this is to say that so many players will follow this mindset and Runecape will cease to be what it is today. We can probably assume that this is not the case but I would be willing to bet that a large portion of players may find themselves in Daemonheim quite often. This in my opinion drastically splits Runescape into two groups. That all being said, let us look at some things. First, Daemonheim provides everything that a player needs in order to complete each floor. This means that when a player is Dungeoneering they do not require fished foods, they do not need potions, nor do they care about any other produced items in the regular world. More so, they no longer have need for items such as the GWD gear, rune armor, or even nature runes. Sure there will still be players in the overworld but ultimately my question is this: [TL:DR] In your opinion how much will Dungeoneering affect the rest of Runescape?

Dude! i nearly nailed this one. i am not a huge fan of continually posting my ideas partially due to the fact that I wasn't done with it, but i did post it a few time. that being said my skill was nearly the same concept. i know we do not like links here but i am posting from my phone so the best i can do. www.freewebs.com/exploreskill obviouskly Jagex stole my idea :