i_trollz_u

You can probably buy a high-end account off the RWT market for less. Which is why it wouldn't be that bad of a policy. Also, it's probably safer to recover a high end account this way, rather than risk being caught for account trading and losing the money and getting the account banned anyway, or getting scammed on the rwt market.

It's very easy to get past safing. With chaotic weapons, and claws, it's very easy to deal more damage than the person can heal. PKing is about knocking the other person out before he has a chance to eat his food or run away. It's not about making them use up all their food. No one my lvl has a dps high enough to just overwhelm anyone with any reasonable defense in gear constantly eating tails or brews. The rate of healing is always faster if they are continuously eating. I know for a fact that it's never happened to me yet, and the only ways i die are through veng combos or when i leave myself at low health to try and KO them and fail. The reason you wouldn't continuously eat is simply because you're not going to win the fight if you do and you're just wasting time and money doing so and you run out of food. Familiars would get rid of that problem and just make the costs of fights higher because people just bring more gear now. I just want to know why this happened. What possible reason was there to change the way summoning worked? What was wrong with the old way? Also, summoning isn't a combat skill anymore in the context of Pvp. Because it doesn't affect your CB lvl that determines who you fight, it might as well just be a non-cb skill now. Of course you can "see" it, but some of the same arguments for herblore still apply. It just isn't as broken as extremes/ovl would have been. Also i tried it out and my familiar kept stepping on my opponent, making the fights a lot more annoying cuz i had to keep right clicking.

You know parents can check a monthly report of exactly what was used on the credit card right? No 14 year old is going to charge random amounts of money on his parent's credit card if it's substantial...if he does his parent's would probably ban him from RS anyway.

As long as they remove everything gained by botters, this is probably not that big a deal..cheaters only lose by losing RL cash and the time they wasted botting. Of course, that's assuming they really do remove EVERYTHING gained by cheaters. I'm also genuinely curious as to how much...if it's like $500+ i honestly would not mind even if the botter could keep all his stats. Still probably not worth botting for anyone.

Wait there's not seriously going to be a riot is there?

RIOT IN WORLD 60

wtf jamflex i want wildy now we pay we say

The fact that there's no reason for people not to bring a full BoB full of food and safe even in low lvl wild is going to get annoying. Even if i had a yak fighting someone else with a yak would just be lame, not anything exciting as jagex thinks it's going to be.\ Ugh, all i'm gonna be doing is fighting with a tort full of tails/brews for like 10 minutes against someone else doing the exact same thing. I'm [bleep]ing mad bro.

It isn't as bad as if they allowed extremes/ovl, considering getting a tort/terrorbird isn't that hard and aside from the yak, isn't that OP. I honestly don't see why they had to change it though, why can't summoning work just like before. This just has an overall negative effect on pvp...how on earth would it be a good thing to have a fight in edge with both pkers having a full yak/tort full of supplies? There's literally no incentive not to do something dumb like bring a tort full of food and just safe the entire time. Fights don't need to made any longer. Makes pvp more lame and does it more harm than good. The post also specifically mentioned multi-combat having this change, implying that familiars are going to penalize you in single combat if you summon one, and work like before in single.

wow nice hits and epic combos@! Those skeletons were sad pjers tbh.

Just got a real cool basilik head and trying to play SW so i can make it into a pet. Is there a world that isn't laggy/doesn't suck? Or just not extremely crowded.

P2P trades affect GE? Lol what's stopping me from trading back and forth random junk between my two accounts for like 999999x the price just to be a troll?

Have you ever pked recently? You didn't have stream, sol, claws, chaotics, korsai's, or hand cannon before. If you have pked recently, you would know the last thing they need is an increase in their accuracy + damage, especially if you're fighting the chaos elemental. Or if you're just trying to get some dragon bones. Especially if you're an average player at green dragons without extreme def pots in lvl 20+ wild, and a group of pkers showed up with tb+barrage.

Sounds like someone's argument is losing steam. ;) Sounds like someone doesn't actually have an answer and is making smart-ass comments to mask it. PvM in the wilderness should not be nerfed because of a BS principle that is already violated by Turmoil and many pieces of popular PvP items. Have fun killing the chaos elemental while you get butt raped by maxed pkers with extreme potions. Isn't the chaos elemental in multi too....?

Sounds like someone's argument is losing steam. ;) Sounds like someone doesn't actually have an answer and is making smart-ass comments to mask it. PvM in the wilderness should not be nerfed because of a BS principle that is already violated by Turmoil and many pieces of popular PvP items. lol pvm in the wild is going to get broken by the new pots too...there's a ton of pkers that would enjoy the new broken system and take it out on ANYONE that enters the wild. Don't most people do green drags because they can't afford extreme def? How on earth are they suppose to survive barrage+claw rush in welfare gear???

Green Dragons are in two places. Wilderness, and Chaos Tunnels. Wilderness has risk of Revenants (soon to be replaced by PKers) which plenty of players are willing to put up with. Chaos Tunnels has constant harassment by Baby Black Dragons. There's Brutal Green Dragons, but if you want to collect your own Dragon Bones (which a lot of people do), Green Dragons are by far the fastest option if you're willing to suffer the risk. Now the Chaos Tunnels requires this risk too, and you can't use PvM potions against them in the wilderness even if you're willing to suffer the risk of PKers? Chaos Elemental is a boss monster. Boss monsters are rather limited in this game, and I personally love killing him, as he has some odd mechanics that make it interesting. At the same time, he's not hard, and his defense is low enough that I can kill him fast and enjoy the satisfaction of it. You're nerfing that, too. Oh, and rubbing it in my face by finally making his drop table decent too? Then you have the Hellhounds, Fire Giants, Greater Demons, Lesser Demons, Red Dragons, etc. There are new spots for them, but a lot of PvMers both before and after the trade limitations braved the risk of the Wilderness for a less crowded place to kill those monsters, be it for drops and slayer. Again, you're telling those people that not only do they have to brave the risk, they can't use designated PvM potions that they've been using there since the potions were released? That doesn't seem status quo to me. The Wilderness has lots of stuff that people use Extremes on, and you're nerfing that. Dude...you realize that if pkers have extremes/ovl your life at chaos elementals and dragons isn't exactly going to be made easier....it's not just pkers that are going to suffer, anyone that tries and skills in the wild or kill green drags is going to get pwnt even harder, consider they are going to be even less prepared to handle the pots than regular pkers.

Honestly, the best pkers i've seen pk with full leeches rather than turmoil anyway even if they have it. Leeches let you lower your opponents def and increase your spec, so it has its advantages over turmoil. What reasonable alternative is there to extremes/ovl?

The requirement for Ancient Curses is a series of quests and a mixture of combat and non-combat skills. The requirement to benefit from the Ancient Curses (that is, to actually use them, instead of switching to the book and doing nothing with it) is prayer levels. The requirement for Extreme Attack Potions is a non-combat skill. The requirement to benefit from Extreme Attack Potions is Attack levels. You do not benefit at all from using Extremes over Supers if you don't have enough Attack, just like you do not benefit at all from using Ancient Curses over normal prayers if you have minimum prayer. And this goes all the way up to the highest levels. You don't get the final benefit from Extreme Attack (+7 over Super Attack) until you get 96 Attack, just like you don't get the final benefit from Ancient Curses (Turmoil) until you get 95 Prayer. Also, you're not leaving the status quo. You're changing the Wilderness to disallow Extreme Potions, which is relevant because there are Wilderness PvM and non-combat activities that will suffer from this. And again, this is exactly the same case as Turmoil. A high level person with 95 prayer and Turmoil is visbily identical to a high level person with 95 prayer and no Turmoil, who is visibly identical to a high level person with 94 prayer who may or may not have Turmoil. All three characters look exactly the same, but one of them has a 10% strength advantage... 69 to 70 prayer has a 0.25 increase in combat level. It may not be visible at every level, but it exists, and will be evident at some level as PKing increases your stats. 59 attack to 60 attack has approximately an 0.33 increase in combat level. It may not be visible at every level, but it exists, and will be evident at some level as PKing increases your stats. 94 to 95 prayer has a 0 increase in combat level. 95 prayer does not exist to Jagex's combat formula. You will never see a combat level difference between someone with 94 prayer and someone with 95 prayer if their other stats are the same, no matter what their other stats are. Unless you have pathetically low CB stats, and i don't even know how low that would have to be (I'm guessing like below 30???) but its at a pretty reasonable threshold for "pathetic" if you really don't have the att/str level to benefit more from extremes than you do from super pots. Honestly, the people who are in that situation are only going to be skillers, who aren't pking at all anyway. With any reasonable CB level you're always going to benefit more from extremes than you do from supers, proving that a NON COMBAT SKILL gives you an advantage over someone with identical combat stats as you, which shouldn't be happening (among the many other reasons why pvp would suck if these potions were allowed). I've already answered your point about quests above (magical psychic powers). Also, you don't NEED the curses to pk effectively. Hell, I know i pk better range tanking with rigour. However, You will ALWAYS LOSE to someone that has identical CB skills and extremes if you don't have 96 herb. You functionally require a non-cb skill to pk at the best of your ability, while you never needed any other quest to do so, as there were always alternatives. Do you see the difference now?

But of course they respond with "but quests require non cb skills too!!!!" and because this response is inevitable and no one reads previous answers, the answer to that is simply 1. There's a pretty big difference between the 33 wc and craft requirements for a dds and long, vs 96 herblore. Yes, obviously they both are non cb skills and it probably isn't 100% consistent. Seriously? Nothing is comparable to these pots, because the magnitude on both the consequences and the requirement far exceeds anything pvp has ever had before. Neither Korsai's, barrel chest anchor, or the dds was as bad as this. No consistency argument here. 2. Why does it matter if some other low lvl skill requirements are used? DDS and d skimmy = good for pvp. The potions =/= good for pvp. Simple as that, no reason why consistency is even a reason to allow pots.

... so how is it represented then? Player 1 has 94 prayer, Player 2 has 95 and thus turmoil. Where's the representation of Turmoil? How to I distinguish Player 1 from Player 2 without stat spy or looking at the high scores? The fact that he the gained levels in the process of getting 94 Prayer. It doesn't matter if he can use Turmoil or not. What do you mean it doesn't matter if he can use Turmoil or not? That's a 10% strength difference in high level PvP. And the levels he gained in the process of getting 94 Prayer are there to represent 94 prayer - the prayer points, the increased benefit from prayer restoring items, and the access to the prayers and items up to level 94. I seriously do not understand the point of this argument. So there's a jump in pking power from 94-95 pray. Ok? There's a jump in being able to wield claws at 60 vs 59, gs at 75 v74....not sure what your point is, or how this relates to extremes. You obviously gain CB lvls with prayer, even though you don't gain a level in that one instance, the CB system never showed every single lvl in any CB skill. There was probably a difference having 93 mage and 94 mage too. Prayer functions just like any other Cb skill. I don't really think you can argue that herblore is the same, considering you don't gain any cb lvls at any herblore lvl.

Yes, whether those (mainly pointing at Korasi) items are correctly priced is another story, but you do risk them. Dragon(e) bolts are consumables and can be negated ENTIRELY. Obviously magic and range levels are incorrectly displayed but the difference is that they are combat skills. If you have an account with low strength/attack, it IS displayed. It seems rather consistent to me. Herblore itself has nothing to do with combat ability. There are two options: 1. You add extremes/ovls and to cancel (lol) their increased damage you increase the amount of LP one hp level gives 2. Do nothing. First option looks kind of stupid to say the least.. 1) You risk extreme potions. Not the level but you risk the potions (one overload ~= one dds). Also, extreme potions are consumables. I don't see how they are different to, say, Korasi's (besides being somewhat cheaper, you'll also use more (depending on your kill/death ratio I presume)). I'll agree that dbolts are tradeable and extremes are not, but Korasi's isn't. Neither is Zanik's crossbow (not sure how good it is tbh). However, the fact that something requires a level is equivalent to requiring a quest imo. If extremes required a quest to drink, would they be banned? (actually they require Druidic Ritual to be consumed :P) 2) Quests don't (only) require combat skills. Obviously the handcannon needs to be banned cause it requires firemaking to use. I don't have a fulll list, but it includes ghostly robes, many dragon items (scimitar included) etc. They all need to be banned as well IF you want all combat enhancers to depend on combat stats only. I don't. 3) Exactly because of extremes, herblore has something to do with combat abilty. Like quests. Quests have nothing to do with combat right? Well they do of course, loads of things we've mentioned. 4) You think it looks stupid, but I think it results in a pvp environment where people can use their account to the full extent. The options are different and 1. is more interesting. IMO. Edit: The benefit is consistency (which I like and some people might not care about, idk). Also, spec recovers make fights more interesting (imo). Since the problem is too high dps relative to max health, you can either drop dps or up health. I prefer the latter. Some people may not. First, i don't see any reason why consistency matters. If the new potions are BROKEN and DESTROY PVP who gives a damn? Consistency doesn't make pvp better. I also don't see how pvp gets more interesting. New weapons, although sometimes borderline overpowered, is interesting. New armor is interesting. Being able to hit higher? Why? Do you get off from seeing high numbers or something? I don't exactly find higher hits constantly and ridiculous KOs interesting as much as i find them ridiculously overpowered and making it literally impossible for someone who doesn't have them to win. Weapons and items don't do that, a dds can still be used effectively against claws against korsais and still is. Even if its not consistent, nothing of similar logic to the potions has as much of an impact on pvp as the potions do. None of your comparisons work because nothing in the game is of the same magnitude. How are spec restores interesting? You realize someone with boost potion share/energy transfer could essentially give someone near constant dds specs right? The person won't even be able to run or say "aid off" before he gets freaking KOd. Also, i'd rather not see someone get two tries with a d bow to KO someone, especially with extreme ranging. Your definition of interesting turns into broken.

Yes I do, Joe risks 25m while Johnny risks 50k. I thought that the quest was quite easy to do apart from the 63 mining and 60 smithing requirement. The effort of doing the questing is negiglible to the prayer levelling itself. 1) So I assume it isn't isn't a problem of cost but rather one of risk, correct? In which case cheap, powerful items like Korasi's, dds, gmace/maul, rune crossbow/dbolts should be banned, right? A dbolt is cheaper than the herbs needed for an extreme set, and adds quite a lot of power/danger to the cheap crossbow. 2) How does that even matter? Obviously people get 95+ prayer for turmoil, but then again people get 94 magic for vengeance (that takes quite a long time), which you can't see either (and is very similar in quest needed, great potential to alter a fight etc.). I'm not arguing that extremes are overpowered or underpowered. I'm just saying that it isn't very consistent to allow one thing but not the other. It seems like extremes got picked out at random, which doesn't seem fair. A radical solution like increasing lp per con level to 12-13 would be far better imo. It could even apply only in the wilderness. I really don't understand the problem with mage/range, you can see the lvls on mine and a lot of people's accounts. Sure it might not on a few people, but seriously what's impact to not being consistent? If pvp is worse after extremes get implemented than don't do it. Your alternative of no specs/turm is absolutely horrible and punishing those who already got it with useless CB lvls. I really don't think turm is that big a deal, 95/94 pray (as if this distinction matters) still adds a significant number of cb lvls that makes it advantageous but fair. The potions have literally no drawback whatsover. Turmoil and chaotics don't guarantee you'll win against someone who doesn't. Not even korsai or claws. It's pretty much impossible to beat someone with ovl/brews if you don't have 96 herb. And seriously don't say "bring divine/torva". I get you think it might not be consistent with other things, but you still haven't shown any benefits it would give to pvp content if it was allowed, and only risks degrading it. There's pretty good reason for singling out these potions for being banned.

I like knowing a good value to buy things at and to know an official stable price of an item. You can get past trade limits through manual trading.

Why is there not a "don't allow extreme's - there absolutely isn't any reason to"? And last time i checked "there's no reason not to" was never a reason why you should do something. The whole pole is fundamentally flawed.

3 words: Chaotic Maul KO. When you see it, you're already dead. Also, this "you can't see it" could be easily fixed by a marker or animation on a potted player. If you ban extremes, you should ban supers too. Sure you can buy them; But you can also buy the herblore level to make extremes. The only difference is one person spends their money on the pots, and the other spends their money on the levels. Both are invisible boosts. Also ban ancient prayers and ancient magiks; You can't visibly tell if an enemy has turmoil or ancient magiks until they attack you or turn a deflect prayer on. Maybe you should ban rings too? I don't have the money to buy a berserker ring, so nobody should use one! In the end, it all comes down to money; If you have it, you can get extremes. If you don't, you'll get extremely butthurt that another player has it. Magic is obviously shown in your cb level and its considered a cb skill even if its not accurately shown. Prayer too. And it freaking tells you in your chat if someone is using ancient prays, and even turm has animation. You can lose your ring. you can lose your maul. you can lose claws. you can lose korsai. None of these are even of the same magnitude of game breaking as extremes/ovl. these comparisons are asinine and really should be stopped, as xpx and others have addressed them over and over. most of the time you can't see range in combat level so you don't know if someone has dragon bolts or hand cannon waiting to hit 500s-600s on you without spec most of the time you can't see mage in combat level so you don't know if someone can tb you or freeze you with ancients or venge You can see range and mage in my CB level, and quite a few others. I don't know if I'm getting trolled, but i just explained that you can lose your items. Honestly if your mage/range lvl isn't shown in ur cb level they definitely aren't going to be koing you with range anyway, and magic and range are COMBAT SKILLS, whether or not they are consistently shown in your cb level is irrelevant, they were meant to be trained for use in pvp. Herblore isn't a CB skill, that's the whole point. At best you might prove that the CB system needs to be readjusted, at the current moment though extremes/ovl really doesn't need to be allowed into pvp, and even if these comparisons were valid, there literally is no reason why it would mean the new potions would improve the pvp experience.