i_trollz_u

Actually, I think we just confirmed that it's the latter - giving a group Vengeance... "Vengeance Group is a Lunar spell released with Livid Farms on 4 April, 2011. It casts Vengeance Other on up to 30 players within a 3x3 square around the caster. When activated, all players around the caster receive the effect of vengeance. It has a cooldown of 30 seconds." http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Group_Vengeance Yep, you're right. Boosted grave rush anyone? EDIT: From rswiki More like instant KO of anyone barraging/camping a grave.

Cannoning while safespot ranging would be better, you allow the cannon to attack more demons at once.

Too optimistic.

I don't exactly see why people keep saying it's going to be game breaking, disruption shield be very useful in pvp (veng group seems useless...i'd be barraging in a multi zone) and will rock edge pking but no more than say dung or korasi did. 43 hours is probably more than a lot pkers (mainly pures) have even spent in game. No other game breaking update ever took 43 hours to achieve something usefull, and this is like 5x the time to go from 1-80 dung. There's normal good exclusive, like the time to get 99 in a skill, get 80 dung, stuff normal for an rpg ect...and then there's this. Even if it was lowered to like 10 or 20 hours to get those spells there still would be a very small minority that would use them.

Does no one find 43 hours absolutely ridiculous? That's like half my total in game time, idk how many times the time to get a chaotic...if they changed the amount of tokens for dung rewards they are definitely going to have to change this.

inb4botsb4freetrade.

train it in dung.

Rate at which you collect points is absolutely ridiculous...I get it has to be exclusive, but this is like the first week dung came out...I could get 99 mage again in the time it would take to unlock these spells.

omg jamflex stop making holidays that americans don't celebrate or care about only boss monsters are important kthx. Edit: wtf veng group is really OP, someone barraging in SW or something similar is going to get OHKO by that. And everybody in a clan spamming that in the wild? Getting hit by normal attacks and a veng litearlly everytime i att? The [bleep]? Need to have like a 5 minute limit or something.

As long as i can keep my chaotic when pking the items kept on death update seems fair.

Thank God. Every troll should be banned imo hate them so much.

These ideas for torva pures and vesta pures are completely insane. Wouldn't recommend it unless you have some rich main that has like 2B+bank. Vesta pure seems to be horribly un-worth it, and i doubt you're going to get that enough kills to make up for the loss when your armour degrades.

Just max out att (can just get 80 and leave it there) , str, hits (90+ is fine), mage, get 70 or 95 pray (don't stop somewhere in the middle), and leave def the same.

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one. way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument. the self i was referring to was combat. you keep making this about diy. if combat were the only thing in runescape, it would sustain itself. If there was no fishing skill, the best food you'd have would be like bread and meat from cows and [cabbage]. Explain how anybody is suppose to train without any fish, i don't know many lvl 1-120 that are 99 def with SS, EEE, and unicorns. I think you're getting training combat mixed up with training combat efficiently. There would be many ways to train without needing food, even at low levels. I remember I used to see people at cows let themselves die and just walk back so they could save on food. Anyway, even if you can't fish or cook, you can still buy food from NPCs or get it from drops. It would take more effort to train, but combat could easily survive on its own. Also I'm not sure if Fishing was a good example for you to use, I don't think it was even one of the original skills. Because RS would be so enjoyable killing cows for the rest of your life, and getting rid of any training spot that isn't right next to a spawn.

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one. way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument. the self i was referring to was combat. you keep making this about diy. if combat were the only thing in runescape, it would sustain itself. If there was no fishing skill, the best food you'd have would be like bread and meat from cows and [cabbage]. Explain how anybody is suppose to train without any fish, i don't know many lvl 1-120 that are 99 def with SS, EEE, and unicorns.

I'm pretty sure you're the other players had to fish/cook the food too.

This is where I want to get to too. At what time of the day (or night) do ranks do DGs with non-ranks? / At what is the chattuh most active? Uh, there isn't a set time of day where ranks dg with non-ranks. The only time ranks don't dg with non-ranks is when the ranks need their high warpeds done, and even then there's a few non-ranks in there. Weird b/c i've never been able to find floors. I ask if anyone is doing occults or abandonds and people just keep on talking about slayer/frosts/random. So I started a party, then this guy said he'd prefer if a ranked keys and no ranks wanted to so I went to w148. Got my rapier in like 3 days, keyed some 35-40 minute floors which was fun, and that's the end of my story. Point: hard to find floors. Also, I've never seen a rank invite anyone to a floor that is below 45 - not an exaggeration - been in cc for past week.

So you can get more food from monsters these days then from the GE? Ok so lets say that you dont buy food, but you make it, It's way faster to fish and cook then to get the occasional sea bass from a monster. i.e You can be completely self sufficient if you have good skill levels and good combat, but you cannot be self sufficient with just combat, combat needs skills to aid it and skills need combat to be useful. That the end of it... Also, if you dont like bots then go to a foreign world, its not like you need to be able to read to click on a tree and then use quick bank, and the randoms are easy to figure out even in another language. I use the German worlds (140, 147) but the Brazilian worlds work fine too. the ge is not an item creation machine, it's an item redistribution machine. if you wanted to collect food for the sake of having food, then yes fishing and cooking is faster. if you want to do combat, you are better off just doing combat because the amount of food you need is zero for everything but the strongest monsters. you can be self sufficient with just combat. combat does not need skills. Because everyone in RS is maxed with SS, EEE, and unicorns right.

I know a lot of people that play runescape because of the skills, and there are definitely people who pk for money. I'm not sure how you can make such a broad generalization.

BE sure to let me key if you want 35 deaths in 30 minutes.

I hate skillers that complain that they aren't making as much money. They can, just as easily as the rest of us, train their combat skills and do some Nex / Bandos / etc. I'm fine with you hating everyone.. However, please answer me this: why should doing a certain activity -something which counts for more than half the game- be obsolete for a normal human? - If this was on purpose, why would those skills be added at all, why not making runescape completely combat based, having a steady supply of "goods" into the market (with the GE you won't see any difference between a regular player, a bot or jagex entering goods).. And just remove all those fishing spots, trees, ores, etc etc? Combat is the only viable thing anyways and runescape is all about combat! Because some people find skilling fun. Just because you like something does not mean it should be useful/good money But it deserves to be degraded to where it's completely unrewarding and where the achievement loses its value? People like combat, but just because they like something does not mean it should be useful/good money.

I hate skillers that complain that they aren't making as much money. They can, just as easily as the rest of us, train their combat skills and do some Nex / Bandos / etc. I'm fine with you hating everyone.. However, please answer me this: why should doing a certain activity -something which counts for more than half the game- be obsolete for a normal human? - If this was on purpose, why would those skills be added at all, why not making runescape completely combat based, having a steady supply of "goods" into the market (with the GE you won't see any difference between a regular player, a bot or jagex entering goods).. And just remove all those fishing spots, trees, ores, etc etc? Combat is the only viable thing anyways and runescape is all about combat! Runescape would be a very boring game if it literally "just combat" If you took out all the side skills - it would be pretty [developmentally delayed]. You would kill monsters that would drop: a.) coin b.) armor c.) rune/arrow So how would you get more arrows/runes? You obviously can't make them magically appear - so you invent ways to put them into the game. How would you get food to heal when killing monsters? Again - you invent ways to put them into the game. Plus, the other "side skills" do assist in day to day activities. High agility = faster routes High herblore = potions to speed up killing High fire making = ability to use hand cannons longer But from all these examples - you can see the majority of these side skills were tailored to help you fight more effectively. (I'm sure as hell the goal of people leveling herblore isn't to get high herblore so they can make a damned fishing potion) And what's the point of getting high combat? Probably to kill better things to earn more money. And what's the point of earning money? To spend on buyables and expensive skills. And whats the point of crafting and smithing? Well it was to make amour for combat. It's meant to all be interacted with neither being prioritized. And i honestly doubt the reason jagex created the firemaking skill was for the sole purpose of using hand cannons longer. And who cares if other skills are connected to combat? That still doesn't mean you should completely degrade other parts of the game just to make one part easier. I don't see why combat is more important, all the skills are weighted equally equally on the high scores, it can't objectively be said to be more fun or interesting than skilling either.

I hate skillers that complain that they aren't making as much money. They can, just as easily as the rest of us, train their combat skills and do some Nex / Bandos / etc. You totally did not say that in your first post, and was completely responsive to the idea that many people want to enjoy other aspects of the game and shouldn't have the reward diminished or the skill degraded because of botting. You say that as if killing stuff is the only reason people should play the game. Obviously people could not do something, but i'm saying that it is bad to waste so much content.

L0l! it's a game. You can't charge young teens real life money for getting a computer to play a game for them. Also bots do bring something to the game, you must not realise the scale of botting. How much do you think sharks would be if they wern't botted? Or herbs? Or infinity robes? Those things take hours in game but cost relatively little because thousands of people bot them. Jagex realises that there needs to be bots, that's probably why they reduced their punishments. But then you get the skillers saying, "It's losing me moneys because I fish, woodcut, etc!" ...When really, there's nothing stopping them from coming to Nex, Bandos, or staking like the rest of us. Or the price of raw materials could skyrocket and skilling could actually make money like it was designed to? And 99's would retain some value? RuneScape is combat based. It always has been. Those that refuse to accept that and [bleep] about not having as much money deserve it. I definitely didn't get that from your first post. Also, there are 8 combat skills, and 17 other skills.

1. Because he, like me and others, finds combat just as boring as skilling? Why should there only be one way to do things efficiently in the game? Why should so much content in the game be completely degraded to the point where I haven't touched a gathering skill in about a year? 2. Right, there would be a new equilibrium price for raw materials, but the price would be much much higher than it is now even after more people go over to skilling. 3. I can't remember a time where there weren't a massive amount of bots in the game since i started playing 5-6 years ago, so i would never know, but i can only imagine how awesome it would be if i had an incentive to train the 1/3 content of the game that has become pointless.