i_trollz_u

I'm finding it too hard to even be able to attack a dragon due to how crowded it is there. Coupled with the crashed price in frost bones it's probably worse than greens.

I dont like getting muted because a bunch of butthurt players decided to report me. I think you overestimate the integrity of the general runescape population by a lot.

Frosts are still as bad as they once were...bot programmers already updated lol.

Not if you happened to pick up some decent loot at revs. More of a moneymaker to let other people kill the revs and then take the loot from them. Or jack your whip you were trying to 3 item with if the loot you picked up happened to be worth more. Unless you have a clan backing you up, the friend is only going to wrecked by a 4 man team at revs, and possibly the rev killer if the TBer is fast enough to get both of them before he glory teles. And the person is going to get pked for potential loot he picked up at revs or just for the lulz no matter how little gear he's wearing. Most pkers are smart enough to know to avoid revs unless they have a team with them, so it's actually not that likely you'll be able to fend off pkers as most of the time you're going to get ambushed by clans. Your best bet is to glory out fast enough when you see a lot of white dots approaching before you get TBed...or get lucky and hope that the TB splashes.

Also, if the price of bolt racks went up that would mean the price of claws should increase (or in this case not fall as much), because it costs more money to produce dragon claws. Increase in cost of production decreases supply which should increase the price. Although i don't think many people use karils xbow at TD's anyway.

So I DCed in w148, and during that DC i managed to get a picture of the game changing my username to something else. I was curious and looked up the username and saw that it was the username of another characters. I'm obviously not "double apple", as you can see that my pray is different than "Double apple". Why do I take on the username of a random person (never seen him b4) when i disconnect?

I completely agree that there are people who have unhealthy obsessions, but i don't see how that's comparable to botting. TBH it just means they should take a break from the game, not bot. You're also probably right that most people feel that others should have to "suffer" through what they've gone through, but I really don't see what's wrong with that attitude. Mindless grinding is simply part of the game, don't do it if it sucks or simply ditch Runescape altogether if it really is causing you to "suffer". What about players who achieve high levels without an unhealthy obsession who simply have been playing the game a really long time? Are you really going to blame them for not liking people who botted their way to a 99 in a week? I don't think people are "smart" for cheating their way through a game, just as i don't think someone is "smart" for glitching or using aimbots in CoD or any online video game simply because they don't like dying or think it'd be more fun for them that way (which btw, is basically what your bolded statement would justify). And if everyone on RS botted or say botting became legitimized i guarentee you everyone would be maxed CB or near it within 3 weeks. Why would there still be a distribution of levels? I'm sure if someone played legitly 24 hours a day they could beat any botter, but that simply isn't possible so people that bot 24/7 without breaks will always surpass legitimate players who play like 3 hours a day. Yes I would blame them, because if they truly played for entertainment someone else botting a skill they enjoy would mean nothing to them. I compare it to Grand theft auto because I play truly for entertainment and if someone else cheats on there it means nothing to me. The "dont like the grind then quit" attitude doesnt work either, because plenty of people love the game but hate the grind. The difference between aimbots in CoD vs botting in runescape comes down to do you interfere with someone elses fun directly? An aimbot can help you spawn camp someone or just kill them on site which no one enjoys. A bot in runescape CAN be a form of griefing for reasons I have already said before were valid complaints, taking spots and ruining money makers. However someone that bypasses skills they find to be annoying like agility and dont directly grief other players like aimbots are things I see nothing wrong with. Comes down to fun, plenty of people are more then happy to legit combat because they enjoy it. But lets say Jagex one day blatantly said "you can bot run wild!" would 99s become more concentrated? well of course, no denying that. But doesn't that say something about runescape? That the only reason everyone doesn't have all 99's is because so many skills aren't fun enough to keep people at them that long [and in some cases feel like actual work]? At any rate my attitude can be best summed up as, "Dont hate the player, hate the game" or Dont hate the players that bot, hate Jagex for not having enough unique and fun ways of training in the game. If there was a 'fun' way of training each skill [even if slower then regular training] then I would switch my position on botting, but plenty of skills are more fit for a machine then a man. Grand theft auto is a single player game, cheating in a multiplayer game has a lot more effects than cheating in GTA. Even botting agility has effects, because value of achieving 99 agility goes down a lot when the majority of people that have it bot. As you say, people grind and still love the game because of the end results of the training, and people who have worked for 99 agility lose a lot of their "prestige" for lack of a better term. Whether or not people should play for a cape or to boost their internet ego is another story, but botting negatively impacts people no matter what they bot. The fact that people botted frost dragons because it was too much of a grind to make money (which, by the way, your bolded thesis of "i should be able to have all the fun without work" also justified) is an even bigger consequence. And yea, the fact that skills feels like work is what prevents people from gettings 99s. What's wrong with that? If everyone in the game became maxed the game wouldn't be a very fun RPG and would lose the roleplaying element completely. Maybe the game shouldn't be so grind heavy, but that's a reason why they should quit. And if you concede that most of the game is a grind, than how can you say people shouldn't quit because they love the game, when 99% of it is a grind? Don't hate the player, hate the game is fine. But the logical solution is for the player hating the game to not play the game, not ruin the game for everyone else. Devaluing the hardwork people obsessed with runescape put into achieving 99s? See the bolded parts of my reply and see my previous posts And you can judge if people are obsessed how...? Is getting 2 99s in the course of 6 years the sign of someone obsessed and constantly no lifeing? Even if someone really had an RS problem and no lifed to 99 agility, i still don't see why it's ok to devalue that achievement.

I completely agree that there are people who have unhealthy obsessions, but i don't see how that's comparable to botting. TBH it just means they should take a break from the game, not bot. You're also probably right that most people feel that others should have to "suffer" through what they've gone through, but I really don't see what's wrong with that attitude. Mindless grinding is simply part of the game, don't do it if it sucks or simply ditch Runescape altogether if it really is causing you to "suffer". What about players who achieve high levels without an unhealthy obsession who simply have been playing the game a really long time? Are you really going to blame them for not liking people who botted their way to a 99 in a week? I don't think people are "smart" for cheating their way through a game, just as i don't think someone is "smart" for glitching or using aimbots in CoD or any online video game simply because they don't like dying or think it'd be more fun for them that way (which btw, is basically what your bolded statement would justify). And if everyone on RS botted or say botting became legitimized i guarentee you everyone would be maxed CB or near it within 3 weeks. Why would there still be a distribution of levels? I'm sure if someone played legitly 24 hours a day they could beat any botter, but that simply isn't possible so people that bot 24/7 without breaks will always surpass legitimate players who play like 3 hours a day. Yes I would blame them, because if they truly played for entertainment someone else botting a skill they enjoy would mean nothing to them. I compare it to Grand theft auto because I play truly for entertainment and if someone else cheats on there it means nothing to me. The "dont like the grind then quit" attitude doesnt work either, because plenty of people love the game but hate the grind. The difference between aimbots in CoD vs botting in runescape comes down to do you interfere with someone elses fun directly? An aimbot can help you spawn camp someone or just kill them on site which no one enjoys. A bot in runescape CAN be a form of griefing for reasons I have already said before were valid complaints, taking spots and ruining money makers. However someone that bypasses skills they find to be annoying like agility and dont directly grief other players like aimbots are things I see nothing wrong with. Comes down to fun, plenty of people are more then happy to legit combat because they enjoy it. But lets say Jagex one day blatantly said "you can bot run wild!" would 99s become more concentrated? well of course, no denying that. But doesn't that say something about runescape? That the only reason everyone doesn't have all 99's is because so many skills aren't fun enough to keep people at them that long [and in some cases feel like actual work]? At any rate my attitude can be best summed up as, "Dont hate the player, hate the game" or Dont hate the players that bot, hate Jagex for not having enough unique and fun ways of training in the game. If there was a 'fun' way of training each skill [even if slower then regular training] then I would switch my position on botting, but plenty of skills are more fit for a machine then a man. Grand theft auto is a single player game, cheating in a multiplayer game has a lot more effects than cheating in GTA. Even botting agility has effects, because value of achieving 99 agility goes down a lot when the majority of people that have it bot. As you say, people grind and still love the game because of the end results of the training, and people who have worked for 99 agility lose a lot of their "prestige" for lack of a better term. Whether or not people should play for a cape or to boost their internet ego is another story, but botting negatively impacts people no matter what they bot. The fact that people botted frost dragons because it was too much of a grind to make money (which, by the way, your bolded thesis of "i should be able to have all the fun without work" also justified) is an even bigger consequence. And yea, the fact that skills feels like work is what prevents people from gettings 99s. What's wrong with that? If everyone in the game became maxed the game wouldn't be a very fun RPG and would lose the roleplaying element completely. Maybe the game shouldn't be so grind heavy, but that's a reason why they should quit. And if you concede that most of the game is a grind, than how can you say people shouldn't quit because they love the game, when 99% of it is a grind? Don't hate the player, hate the game is fine. But the logical solution is for the player hating the game to not play the game, not ruin the game for everyone else.

I completely agree that there are people who have unhealthy obsessions, but i don't see how that's comparable to botting. TBH it just means they should take a break from the game, not bot. You're also probably right that most people feel that others should have to "suffer" through what they've gone through, but I really don't see what's wrong with that attitude. Mindless grinding is simply part of the game, don't do it if it sucks or simply ditch Runescape altogether if it really is causing you to "suffer". What about players who achieve high levels without an unhealthy obsession who simply have been playing the game a really long time? Are you really going to blame them for not liking people who botted their way to a 99 in a week? I don't think people are "smart" for cheating their way through a game, just as i don't think someone is "smart" for glitching or using aimbots in CoD or any online video game simply because they don't like dying or think it'd be more fun for them that way (which btw, is basically what your bolded statement would justify). And if everyone on RS botted or say botting became legitimized i guarentee you everyone would be maxed CB or near it within 3 weeks. Why would there still be a distribution of levels? I'm sure if someone played legitly 24 hours a day they could beat any botter, but that simply isn't possible so people that bot 24/7 without breaks will always surpass legitimate players who play like 3 hours a day.

Exactly, though I go as far as to say that in some cases Jagex making boring, repetitive content as part of the problem but in general yeah this is exactly what I am saying. I have several TIF mods who I hold a personal grudge against because they agreed with the guy saying that botters must be moral nihilists or rapists irl. Seriously whoever agreed with that needs to get offline for a while get a dose of reality. My other beef was that it just never made sense to me that people play "honorably" to complain about the ones who dont. My response is "if it bothers you so much your wasting your time not joining them" because in essence you are, if grinding isn't fun get a bot, if grinding IS fun but your mad that other people choose to cheat then your attitude says completely the opposite. For example: - If I enjoyed doing something fun like say got an a fun ride at an amusement park but someone else chose not to and had their twin brother/sister fill in for them that day my attitude would be "man they are missing out on some real fun, but hey their loss!" - If I had to do something terribly boring like say traffic school or something and someone had their twin brother/sister fill in for them a day I would say "those bastards are cheating, I want them to suffer like I am" Frankly I ONLY see the latter on RS and it is just sad. [FOR INEVITABLE CRAPPY ALAOGY TO CHALLENGE MY CRAPPY ANALOGY: Amusement park ride = Fun skill, Traffic school = boring skill, twin brother/sister = bot] Any questions? Edit: this is also my response to I trollz u You still aren't taking into account Runescape is a competitive game and none of those examples are similar. I don't see why it's wrong to complain about bots when they have an unfair advantage over others that they are directly competing with. I would complain if someone was cheating in a basketball or card game, don't see why runescape is any different. Why shouldn't people be angry at botters? Change your second example to "wtf he's cheating and not playing fair, I want him to play the game fairly because the game isn't really fun for me when I have to compete with everyone botting, and the game would be much more fun if bots didn't exist." Also think about what would happen if everyone botted. If everyone had 1B banks and max stats the game probably wouldn't be much fun, considering it's an RPG. Your belief that "I should be able to skip any grind i don't find fun" is contradictory to the very idea of an RPG, thus contradictory to the point of the game and would effectively ruin it. The boring content Jagex develops is obviously, well, boring. And it probably is their fault for not being able to come up with better exclusive barriers than "who can stand the most grind", but that's just how the game is and if people don't like it it's perfectly understandable, and they should just not play the game because it sucks, not cheat and ruin the game.

Oh lord, not this again. Bots are against the rules, some people might be sympathetic, but that doesn't excuse the fact they're cheating. why does cheating in a video game matter? Unless you have a specific instance of bots ruining your fun [via hogging your training spots for example] what does it matter if a person chooses to cheat? Well aside from the tangible problems like hogging training spots, devaluing raw items and such, it's not in the spirit of the game. Why should we be expected to slog out all the grinding is so many lazy asses cheat like that? If X* is... *is a variable that represents any relevant item for the applied situation IE: Video games, etc. meant for entertainment, has aspects to it that you enjoy but have a very high time investment to be able to properly utilize it and the requirements are not something you enjoy then I think you have the right to bypass those requirements through cheats. Conditions only apply if the situation above is applied. I dont support someone botting 200m xp in a skill, but I would support someone botting mining to reach LRC for example. Or botting combat to boss hunt as another example. Except when the game is MULTIPLAYER game and isn't GTA where cheats are acceptable and intentionally designed because you aren't affecting anyone else. When the "spirit of the game" is based on exclusion and competition that standard would functionally make the game pointless. Your methodology would be fine in games that don't include a competitive aspect, but unfortunately a lot of people view Runescape as some form of competition of who can stand the most grind. You would justify things like CoD MW 1 where every game is hacked, or a basketball game where no one is dribbling because it's more "fun" to simply shoot the ball and taking the time to learn to dribble is too much of a grind. The negative consequences of botting on the entire game (things you conceded were bad) also should be enough of a reason as to why botting shouldn't be allowed, so i don't know why you're trying to defend it.

Know what makes me rage? Arrogant, belligerent PKers who think they actually matter in the grand scheme of things. omfg yea i hate pkers so much they hsoud all go die real men go boss hunt and dungggg. When the runescape judgement day comes and we all know the grand scheme of things all this will become apparent.

<3 jagex's QA team.

It's not that hard to step back for half a second and attack your opponent on the same game tick and keep your protection prayer on. Both prayers are overheads that can't be used at the same time and help keep you alive, so i don't see why it's not fair to use a protection prayer in response to SS. doesn't work if your opponent has a different weapon speed, also, same thing can be said for the person using both ss and protection prayer, take a step back and make sure you attack on a different tick. Then it would result in both players just dancing around, and you can't SS switch during it either which just fulfills the purpose of the person using a protection prayer.

yes

It's not that hard to step back for half a second and attack your opponent on the same game tick and keep your protection prayer on. Both prayers are overheads that can't be used at the same time and help keep you alive, so i don't see why it's not fair to use a protection prayer in response to SS.

FrollTace When you eat a piece of food, you cannot attack for 4 ticks. If you make 1.5m per hour, then the time lost would cost 1k. Potions don't have this delay, and 1 dose of prayer potion is cheaper than any piece of food. 1 dose of prayer potion still costs more than a monkfish. trolololol

People that think pollution is bad are stoopid bcuz dey drive carz and needs dem so they r hypocritiszers, so pollution must be g00d. People are able to consume goods td incredibly low prices in the US because of exploitation of labor in third world countries, you probably think that is good too. but wutdo ino, im just a trolololo.

Granted, that's for substance abuse but none of those seem to imply the addicted are in control of their urges sufficiently enough to avoid neglecting themselves in order to feed them. If they can't find time for it, they'll take the hours from somewhere else. Firstly sleep, then into activities of daily living probably. I'm just going to follow LDZ's lead and ignore you. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, you're mashing words into sentences and hoping they make logical arguments all for the sake of frustrating people and frankly, I'm not game. You didn't make any argument. Cool story though.

The equivalent of a runescape botter would be a gambling addict that can't find enough time to gamble, so he gets a machine to gamble for him because he feels some uncompromisable desire to gamble. I'm not sure where you're example is going. Actually I kind of see where you're getting at now, but while there are still addicts that feel just as compelled as the botter and grinds normally, that doesn't mean the botter isn't also an addict. Addiction isn't based on how much time you spent on the game, because what's a lot of time is subjective and based on the person. It's determined by the justifications for playing the game, and when it gets to where you feel "compelled" to play.

They're addicted because they feel "compelled" to do something in the game. Botting is a consequence of addiction, not the other way around.

I don't see how i ignored or misunderstood your points. And just to make things clear, i am no longer debating that Jagex should go on a less grind path. But here is my idea of class system could work: If you level Herblore, you would achieve all things related to Herblore as you level up and achieve new "Tasks" Same thing for all other classes. And nothing stops you from leveling other skills. You can do it just like now. Only difference is that to wear melee items, you must have melee levels only to acquire them. So in that sense Quests monster and item rewarding would be cut off. However other requirements relating to the skill your doing would rise. So acquiring new items or monster spots for combat for example won't be without requirements, but the requirements will be demanded for the skill relevant to the monster spot/item. None of your "zomg i have to grind to go boss hunting liek a pr0" arguments are any justification for botting. Just boss hunt without a completionist cape, or if you find completing the game is really as bad, pointless, evil, and mind numbing as grinding probably is, and for some reason you don't think it's fun unless you have everything and that runescape is a horrible horrible game, just stop playing, and find something better to do or play a more fun game (such a crazy idea i no rite). If you feel "compelled" to do something in runescape, that's a very very clear indication of runecsape addiction, hence why most people that bot on their mains are probably horribly obsessed and care much more about runescape than people who don't bot.

If you don't want to "throw" away your life then you can log off of runescape and go find something that makes you feel like you're not wasting time. That argument could be said about anything. Why play xbox, it doesn't contribute to you're life...oh except for the fact that it's fun. Some people don't find levels 1-98 fun on runescape. So they bot to 99. Once they are their, everything is fun. I don't like losing, so i'm going to go hack the game to pwn noobs. I don't find getting better fun, once i start pwning, then everything is fun. A normal person's response is to simply not grind and do something else on runescape, or if the game just sucks that bad just stop playing it. An addicted and lazy person's response is to bot or rwt, because for some reason they love parts of the game that much. Except you don't get any better. Chopping trees at level 1 requires the same amount of skills as chopping trees at level 90. Who wouldn't say yes to free effigies/exp lamps/etc in a skill? Essentially, that's why people use bots. It gets them "free" exp in a skill without them actually having to train it. I don't think bots are helpful to the game but those who think that players that bot a.) care too much about the game so they have to bot b.) are immoral people who can't tell the difference between right and wrong are very deluded. @ i_trollz_u You can't possible just give one example (or one particular story) and expect that to be the truth throughout. It's never so clear cut like that. Nice explanation on why i'm deluded. And that really is all there is to it, the only other exception is people who hate grinding, still care about the game too much, and still train it normally. Or people that love grinding and do it. So the order is: people that for some reason love grinding>normal players>botters>people that hate grinding and still do it.

If you don't want to "throw" away your life then you can log off of runescape and go find something that makes you feel like you're not wasting time. that much. That argument could be said about anything. Why play xbox, it doesn't contribute to you're life...oh except for the fact that it's fun. Some people don't find levels 1-98 fun on runescape. So they bot to 99. Once they are their, everything is fun. I don't like losing, so i'm going to go hack the game to pwn noobs. I don't find getting better fun, once i start pwning, then everything is fun. A normal person's response is to simply not grind and do something else on runescape, or if the game just sucks that bad just stop playing it. An addicted person's response is to bot or rwt, because for some reason they love parts of the game way too much.

If you don't want to "throw" away your life then you can log off of runescape and go find something that makes you feel like you're not wasting time. Botters care too much about the game to let go. And then say ppl who don't bot care too much. What a bunch of trolls.