i_trollz_u

Likewise, not crashing someone only benefits the person I didn't crash, at my own cost. Why is efficiency a bad standard? I am happier finding joy in efficiency rather than joy out of laziness. Because some of the actions justified by saying "its more efficient" are just flat out rude, and some more extreme examples might be considered flat out unethical. I'm sure it would be more profitable for you to crash, but if you feel that that you have to steal someone elses kill that they were already working on than most people are just going to feel that that's being unneccesarily greedy and is at the height of greediness. You really couldn't have just let someone finish their kill before taking the world? To be honest that just reflects upon how completely self centered you are if you can't settle for anything less than MAXIMUM efficiency and have to resort to taking away other people's enjoyment. Are you really losing that much by waiting a minute to let someone finish their kill and not waste their food+pots spent on taking out 1/3 of its hp? I mean you are already probably going to get every other kill on that world.

Efficiency is always good for an individual, but not always for a group as a whole. Dragon hatchets have been steadily falling in price the past 12 months (and took a rather quick jump down at the clue update). If you become so efficient at cutting down trees, before you know it you have cut down the whole forest. The same thing is happening with items like the dragon hatchet where people are killing them to the point they wont be a valuable drop anymore. DK's were never designed to have 60-70+ kills an hour while standing in the center, but now it can be done with ease. Sometimes you need inefficient people killing something instead of only efficient people to keep drops at the value they should be. This is an issue that wont be fixed until Jagex releases higher level boss monsters. Not necessarily monsters like corp that hit 500's though prayer, but bosses you can barley stay an hour with a yak, unicorn, overloads and maxed gear. More dragon hatchets at a cheaper price means more people woodcutting more efficiently means more logs are coming into the game which means more people can do what they want with the logs. You are producing more net wealth and utility per hour. The net effect is that more people get what they want. (which doesn't mean some people don't get what they want) Who says it isn't? Business is all about efficiency. And business is what feeds us, houses us, provides us with basically everything. Unsurprisingly, business is also pretty cold - sometimes even evil. Totally agree with the last line and glad you realize that, but i find it pretty hard to justify evil. Bad business practices was what caused the US recession. There's a reason why ethics are good in the world. That's because those businessmen were being shortsighted and did not consider the net effect on society rather than their own personal gain. Also, being selfish is not being unethical. In fact, being selfish is a core part of ethical egoism. In the context of MH: -- RS society incurs a loss of "worse community" at the benefit of producing more net wealth. I would say, in this context, more net wealth is more important than community - because like I said before, most people that play RS don't play it for the community. And if you seek to be part of a real community, why not do something in real life? The point of an MMO is ultimately to simulate success. I agree that egoism is not totally wrong, but to what extent can you use that to justify actions? Can you say the bussinessmen that caused the recession were just keeping a healthy ego? What about doctors that scam their patients? Does hacking someone's account and stealing their money (pretend free trade existed) constitute as being efficient in an MMO so you can simulate success? Isn't all this just a core part of selfish egoism?

I never said "don't call me a d-bag" - I'm saying if you think I'm a d-bag, you're being too sensitive: Maliciousness is bad, but hurting people isn't always bad. If I can do something, and it yields a net benefit for me and the world (including the loss associated with making someone else hop), then it is okay to do it. It is the crashed person's fault for being unhappy. I said this in the OP: you can either whine about it, or you can swallow your pride and forget about it. How you deal with your emotions is not my responsibility. Try not crashing and let the person have the kill, and then simply telling them their gonna be competing with you. Then be a little less happy that u didn't rudely steal someone's kill, but happy that you supposedly found a world that you can take over, leaving the other person a little less unhappy than if they got their kill jacked AND was forced to hop. I'm sure there's a bunch of other solutions. Use your brains. It's probably easier than spending your life trying to max so you can crash ppl. I do exactly this when I crash. I never advocated to crash and make fun of the person you're crashing, or to steal the first kill. When I crash, I just say " I am crashing you now, you have the choice to hop or not". Not sure what your definition of crashing is, but what i'm critisizing is when i get a boss to like 2/3 health and then someone crashes me and jacks the kill i was working on. Also, i don't see how crashing someone benifits anyone else OTHER than you. The only way you justify crashing is by saying "its the most efficient way to do things", and i find that that's a pretty bad standard to be judging actions on, both in game and especially real life.

Who says it isn't? Business is all about efficiency. And business is what feeds us, houses us, provides us with basically everything. Unsurprisingly, business is also pretty cold - sometimes even evil. Totally agree with the last line and glad you realize that, but i find it pretty hard to justify evil. Bad business practices was what caused the US recession. There's a reason why ethics are good in the world. To be honest, i have no idea how you can possibly justify evil. HONORABLE business is good. DISHONARABLE bussiness probably doesn't feed us. Sure you can do whatever you want and sometimes you can get away with it. But people who do things that aren't decent normally are frowned down upon and don't go around trying to justify themselves.

I am finding it hard to source any actual arguments pro-crashing? Other than the repetition of 'better gear, higher levels = god given right' which is cynical. Furthermore I find it interesting the lengths people go to defend their perfectly reasonable act of crashing. :thumbsup: Of course, maxed players have earned the right to act like an @ssh0les by sitting at their computer longer than u have, didn't u know? The right to be an d-bag must be earned, not inherently given, that is the way of a lvl 138. lern2be max3d nub. Crashing stops you from wasting time finding worlds and gets someone to tank damage and deal some damage. Glitching and hacking accounts would make a lot of things more efficient too, does that mean i should do it? Those are against the rules and can get you banned. Crashing isn't. Please stop making stupid arguments. So? What if you could get away it? The end result is someone gets really unhappy, and the end result of crashing is someone gets a little bit unhappy (to a lesser degree sure, what w/e). Point is that just because you CAN do something doesn't exactly mean its ok and its pretty silly to go around acting like a jerk and ask not be thought of as a d-bag (the OP). [/hide] The fact is, there are no consequences to crashing another player. There are consequences to hacking accounts (you violate not only the Terms of Use, but also real world laws surrounding virtual property). So, please, don't use stupid arguments. In a unavoidable situation where crashing is necessary, such as Bandos or Corporeal Beast, then you have every right to crash. Like sseli said, whoever can utilize a spot the best, has the right to own that spawn. The fact is, it's a game on the internet. Just because it's 'Rude' to crash, doesn't mean we won't. Besides, you must crash in order to gain maximum efficiency, otherwise you lose profits from the time lost hopping. The point isn't about the consequences surrouning the actions, it's about the decency of them. Its not a stupid argument. Plus you're the one being asinine for thinking there are consequences to hacking. You're not gonna get sued for hacking your friends account rofl.

I'm with nar on this one. Hacking and glitching aren't within the rules, whereas competition is normal in almost any game. I suppose I should let my gear rot in my bank so a level 112 can be happy that I didn't crash him at TDS? Violating the rules is being unethical. That doesn't mean everything that the rules totally doesn't forbid IS ethical. Granted that crashing is probably not as severe as hacking or glitching, but point is that if "efficiency" is the only standard for judging actions, then a lot of bad things in the game become justifyable. If "efficiency" was the standard for judging actions in real life, the world would be an incredibly sad place.

Try not crashing and let the person have the kill, and then simply telling them their gonna be competing with you. Then be a little less happy that u didn't rudely steal someone's kill, but happy that you supposedly found a world that you can take over, leaving the other person a little less unhappy than if they got their kill jacked AND was forced to hop. I'm sure there's a bunch of other solutions. Use your brains. It's probably easier than spending your life trying to max so you can crash ppl.

I am finding it hard to source any actual arguments pro-crashing? Other than the repetition of 'better gear, higher levels = god given right' which is cynical. Furthermore I find it interesting the lengths people go to defend their perfectly reasonable act of crashing. :thumbsup: Of course, maxed players have earned the right to act like an @ssh0les by sitting at their computer longer than u have, didn't u know? The right to be an d-bag must be earned, not inherently given, that is the way of a lvl 138. lern2be max3d nub. Crashing stops you from wasting time finding worlds and gets someone to tank damage and deal some damage. Glitching and hacking accounts would make a lot of things more efficient too, does that mean i should do it? Those are against the rules and can get you banned. Crashing isn't. Please stop making stupid arguments. So? What if you could get away it? The end result is someone gets really unhappy, and the end result of crashing is someone gets a little bit unhappy (to a lesser degree sure, what w/e). Point is that just because you CAN do something doesn't exactly mean its ok and its pretty silly to go around acting like a jerk and ask not be thought of as a d-bag (the OP).

I am finding it hard to source any actual arguments pro-crashing? Other than the repetition of 'better gear, higher levels = god given right' which is cynical. Furthermore I find it interesting the lengths people go to defend their perfectly reasonable act of crashing. :thumbsup: Of course, maxed players have earned the right to act like an @ssh0les by sitting at their computer longer than u have, didn't u know? The right to be an d-bag must be earned, not inherently given, that is the way of a lvl 138. lern2be max3d nub. Crashing stops you from wasting time finding worlds and gets someone to tank damage and deal some damage. Glitching and hacking accounts would make a lot of things more efficient too, does that mean i should do it?

I am finding it hard to source any actual arguments pro-crashing? Other than the repetition of 'better gear, higher levels = god given right' which is cynical. Furthermore I find it interesting the lengths people go to defend their perfectly reasonable act of crashing. :thumbsup: I think Sseli gave a perfect one, the most efficient ones should (and mostly do) take president to a spawn(s) then those who are simply the first to that spot. To the KBD'er, why do you think you "own" the spawn? I still havn't heard a good argument for that either. It's not that i "own" the spawn, its that if the 138 with turmoil would simply say "hi, you can finish your kill, but i can't find another world so know that if you choose to continue, know that you probably will be competing with me", instead of just taking the kill, it would probably be a lot more ethical instead of crashing me.

I am finding it hard to source any actual arguments pro-crashing? Other than the repetition of 'better gear, higher levels = god given right' which is cynical. Furthermore I find it interesting the lengths people go to defend their perfectly reasonable act of crashing. :thumbsup: Of course, maxed players have earned the right to act like an @ssh0les by sitting at their computer longer than u have, didn't u know? The right to be an d-bag must be earned, not inherently given, that is the way of a lvl 138. lern2be max3d nub.

If the sole principle in life was being "efficient", i'm pretty sure the world would be a pretty [bleep]ed up place. Granted, RS =/= real life, but the game would still probably be a lot better if people learned to respect one another. I seriously don't see how you can say "decency is for naive nubs" and "get maxed or GTFO" and not expect to be called a d-bag. The only boss i really hunt is the KBD so can't talk for GWD. I know I can't force other people not to take the world i'm on, but i do think it's @ssh0l3ish and COMPETELY UNNECCESARY to not at least let me finish my kill before crashing me. At least crashers can be a bit polite to let someone have their kill before stealing it from them? There are plenty of alternatives other than crashing, like maybe you can just ask the other person to hop and then start killing? At least they would be able to finish what they were doing. If someone isn't a complete jerk and has an IQ above 2, they can think of some other way to get what they want other than acting like a [puncture].

So does the second article imply that the force teleports/safe dying glitch still exist?

I think i remember seeing a thread listing a TON of dailey activites a while back, can anyone direct me to it? Otherwise im just looking for a bunch of daily things that take like a minute to do and make random amounts of 50-200k per task. Already got: farming MTK buying herblore and borad bolts buying out the RFD chest Getting daily shipment of sand.

http://www.scape-xp.com/runescape-high-alchemy.html gf everyone?

Assuming I got it to the lowest cost possible (180k per 2500 shots) is it more cost effective than training range with a r c bow with braod bolts? Does it give faster xp?

Yet magic completely destroys range, obviously a problem there. No...mage can't even kill most melee'rs in pvp, not to mention rangers. Range can max 60s with d bolts and smack 48-48 with d bow. Mage hits slow and barrage doesn't hit above 25 80% of the time. Drink a sip of your antifire. Problem solved. Magic hits as fast as rangers hit with crossbows on rapid. And don't post some random numbers such as Barrage spells not hitting above 25 80% of the time when it isn't true. And yes, mages that know what they're doing do destroy meleers and rangers. Max hits aren't everything. You have to look at accuracy aswell. Which is something a lot of people don't. Mage is accurate if you're wearing completely full mage gear(Mystic/ahrim), which NO ONE DOES IN PVP (except the lvl 130+ who have like 99 def anyways and tank), because melee rushers and and rangers tear through mystic and even ahrims like butter (hence the reason people hyrbid). Farcasting melee in pvp fails epicly, because the melee'r either switches to mage armour/d'hdie or runs. Even worse, they'll just switch to d'hide and start ranging. It is literally impossible to do well in pvp with only mage, most people end up KO'ing with melee or range. And i never considered the r cbow exactly a fast weapon, (speed is subjective and arbitrary though), although i personally find mage pretty slow.

Yet magic completely destroys range, obviously a problem there. No...mage can't even kill most melee'rs in pvp, not to mention rangers. Range can max 60s with d bolts and smack 48-48 with d bow. Mage hits slow and barrage doesn't hit above 25 80% of the time.

The path less traveled i take is going around frustrating/annoying other players for fun. IE. Using ice barrage/burst at bandit camp/other muticombat training spots. Using the teleother spells on people when they are in dangerous situations (when they are boss hunting, pvp worlds, ect) Killing the unicorns people at SC like to cast stun on. Casting wind strike while it splash on monsters like blue dragons to prevent others from killing it. Using cannons at crowded places like blue drags. Stealing other people's net trap spots. Throwing snowballs at random people. Burn logs in the formation of a swatsticka. I could probably think of some more things i've done before. Also, is there a trade limit on grey wolf furs?

i always considered the prayer drain from the ancient magics due to the fact that saradomin is pissed that you support zaros. But yeah, it's kind of hilarious that all the quests end up making you go against every single god... i ended up giving the staff to lucien :(....the only god that you ever helped was zaros.

This. Hiding always gets you more xp because you get free charges without getting hit and you can get free time in the center if you tele when your hunter finds you close to the edge and hiding is probably the only way someone can win when they are 30 lvls below their opponent.

I get angry at stupid and unoriginal ideas.

It doesn't matter...oil's gonna run out eventually and the US is gonna do something to get its hands on oil when it starts to run out.

And yeah, the US would be deperate enought to start a war for oil. What do you think the US would do if it was on the brink of no transportaion, no electricity, no clothes, no more plastic, no more millitary, no more pretty much...everthing?

Uhhh....yeah. I do actually. The US kind of said it'd do anything to keep oil flowing and if the there's no oil America's gonna collapse anyway so its not like it would care if the world hates it when its on the brink of destruction.