i_trollz_u

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/

d skimmy also got outclasseed by the Sara sword.

YES! especially wearing their items and turning off chat. It was great knowing they were probably crying behind the computer screen. i never turned my chat off, i lagged out and had 23 seconds only to come see it disapears when i get there and some1 else is just standing by the gate to the trolls and still makes me repair my friends grave He's saying turning his own chat off, so he wouldn't hear you beg him to return your stuff, only to see you follow him forever. I remember when i looted some full steel and an addy picaxe when I was level 8, probably the most exciting thing that has ever happened :razz: It used to be so fun to go to barrows and go tele-othering people while they were in the middle of their fights, hoping they would die. Or even when an evil chicken/shade would come along and kill someone while they were AFK or weren't paying attention and everyone would rush to devour the remains. Good times :)

when if you really are a fat nerd that no lifes in his mom's basement.

I liked it better when you could just take the stuff people lost when they died...made the person that died a lot more angry.

You beg to differ.

It's to stop RWT.

Too lazy, going to bed.

ah,so we've found The problem at last. You can't be serious? Especially when three people have proved that it is muliple times on this thread? That's ignorance, my apologies if I offend. Just because tokens directly correlate with xp doesn't mean tokens are xp. Thats about your only argument. The amount of bloods you craft directly correlates with the xp you get. What you choose to do with your blood runes is the same as what you choose to do with your tokens. You can sell your runes and spend your reward on a giant sword that costs 100m+ and lose it. Thats your choice. Just as you can spend 200k tokens a medium sized but still really powerful sword and lose it. Functionally the same. I still yet to see a single reason why requireing you to spend more time on dung is an unfair cost to re-obtaining your CLS that don't involve inaccurate analogies.

Its not paralell because your analogy was flawed. Dung rewards for gaining xp are directly put into one item. That's the only difference from skills like rc or mining, where all the money you earned can or cannot be directly put into one item. But the fact remains that if you lost the one item you put all your xp into, you can say "zomg my xp gained was useless". The equivalent to losing your CLS can happen if you trained any other skill and lost all the money you gained from training that skill. Dung isn't unique in that. In fact dung is even more like other skills because the currency you earn while training it could also be spent on usefull things other than a really powerful wep. Not that it even matters if its like other skills. Perhaps a better comparison would be, if you lose your adze, you do not lose 6M firemaking exp, you just have to go get another adze. It's not that simple with chaotic weapons. You actually LOSE your 2M exp when you lose the weapon. Now it's getting kind of repetive, please read above. It got repetitive the moment you started up an argument that literally just ended between myself/Zaaps/Stone and another guy. You cannot deny that losing an adze and losing a CLS are similar, except that losing a CLS essentially means that you lost the experience that you "invested" into it. Getting your adze back is a simple matter of redoing the beacon activity, which isn't difficult. You do not lose your ability to do the activity until you get another 6M exp. Simple solution to prove this. Log onto your rs account. Open the skills tab. Scroll over dung lvl. Does it still say you have 2m+ xp there after you lose your cls? You didn't invest your xp. You invested your reward for gaining the xp.

You kidding me? This is the perfect comparison. Dung tokens =/= xp. You could probably go from 10-40 dung opening resource dungeons and doing genire lamps lol (kind of beside the point). Tokens are the reward for gaining xp in dung, just as runes and rune ore is the xp from getting xp in runecrafting and mining. Tokens aren't an ability. Your dung lvl is your ability. Which is why saying you lose your xp and ability is kind of silly. The CLS is the reward, just as whatever you do with your runes/ore is your reward.

Its not paralell because your analogy was flawed. Dung rewards for gaining xp are directly put into one item. That's the only difference from skills like rc or mining, where all the money you earned can or cannot be directly put into one item. But the fact remains that if you lost the one item you put all your xp into, you can say "zomg my xp gained was useless". The equivalent to losing your CLS can happen if you trained any other skill and lost all the money you gained from training that skill. Dung isn't unique in that. In fact dung is even more like other skills because the currency you earn while training it could also be spent on usefull things other than a really powerful wep. Not that it even matters if its like other skills. Perhaps a better comparison would be, if you lose your adze, you do not lose 6M firemaking exp, you just have to go get another adze. It's not that simple with chaotic weapons. You actually LOSE your 2M exp when you lose the weapon. Now it's getting kind of repetive, please read above.

Its not paralell because your analogy was flawed. Dung rewards for gaining xp are directly put into one item. That's the only difference from skills like rc or mining, where all the money you earned can or cannot be directly put into one item. But the fact remains that if you lost the one item you put all your xp into, you can say "zomg my xp gained was useless". The equivalent to losing your CLS can happen if you trained any other skill and lost all the money you gained from training that skill. Dung isn't unique in that. In fact dung is even more like other skills because the currency you earn while training it could also be spent on usefull things other than a really powerful wep. Not that it even matters if its like other skills.

No last time i checked you still had 2m xp when u scrolled your mouse over your dung lvl. And what good does that 2m xp do me? If I lose my whip, I don't lose my level 70 attack that I need to wield it. What good did firemaking xp ever do? Still you don't lose your xp if you die when you die fming or eping. What good is any xp if you lost the money/item earned while earning it? Every skill in runescape is like that. Whether dung tokens are harder to earn or not isn't relevant.

Fine, technically, no. Ah, yes, and if I lose my skillcape, do I need to get 13.2m xp to buy another? :) So to provide examples with what we already have: In Dungeoneering, I need to gain 2m xp to get the reward again, a CLS, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by using floors 1-40 instead of starting at 1. In Mining, I need to gain 3.2m xp to mine rune again if I die while mining rune, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by mining concentrated gold and granite. In Runecrafting, I need to gain 1.5m xp to craft bloods again if I die while crafting bloods, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by using the ZMI altar. In Herblore, I need to gain 9m xp to make Overlords again if I die while using them, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by making extreme potions. Now, do any of those sound fair? No, btw i thought 80 dung was a required ability for you to wield chaotic weapons? Don't think you ever lost that but w/e. If you lost all your rune ore while rune mining, yes, you would have to re-mine all your rune ore again. If you lost all your runes, yeah, you probably would have to make all of them again. Kind of stupid for you not to bank your runes and keep them in a big stack. Most skills, like dung, supposedly has an external reward (other than cape + xp) The reward here other than the xp is your runes which converts into money which converts into an ags which leads to death which leads to GF all your blood runes and xp you gained getting that ags. Thats functionally the same as obtaining a CLS, except your reward is directly translated into only one item. You lost your reward from training the skill. That happens to every skill whether its mining, runecrafting, or fishing when some idiot takes their awesome weapon that took 2 months to obtain into a pvp world and gets killed by a ranger risking like, a dbow. Sure, its bit tougher that your reward from a skill can be lost easier, but considering the fact your reward is an otherwise unobtainable and awesome item, i think the cost for losing it matches the value.

No last time i checked you still had 2m xp when u scrolled your mouse over your dung lvl.

Last time I checked, you can't fish godswords. You can't make this comparison being there's nothing in the Fishing skill that grants you the ability to "fish" godswords out of the ocean. Here's the essence of it. Dungeoneering is a skill. It is not a minigame. It is not a dungeon, however ironic that is. And it is not some sort of "boss activity". It is a skill. Being a skill, it should ACT like a skill. However, it does NOT act like a skill. My theory is that Jagex intentional did this to experiment, but clearly, it is doing more harm than good. Thus, it should return to the tested-and-true system that all skills follow. It's not a little difference at all. It's a huge difference. Think about tokens as the "real" exp (which it is, as many people have proved). No other skill loses experience (to the dismay of pures, heh). Why should Dungeoneering. Sure "technically" it doesn't lose exp, but in reality, you do. Now, I'm not saying you should get it back effortlessly since, when all is said and done, the rewards ARE items. When you lose items, you MUST pay a penalty for losing it, be it 500gp to get Silverlight back or 533m for a Divine. However, you should NOT pay in experience, and that is the big problem. The experience you earned is still there, we both know that losing your longsword =/= losing xp. You lost the reason for gaining the xp. Just as someone lost the reason for getting 99 fishing when they lost the item they spent all their money on. There's a crucial distinction you're missing here - you're not paying in xp you earned, your paying in xp you have to earn again in other words, simply spending more time to get an itme (yeah that new). There are obvious reason already addressed as to why 80 dung is perferable over 1 dung. I mean you are quite a bit closer to having a dung cape, and have access to resource dungeons. Its the same as fishing, the items you can buy through lvling that skill are a big part, but the items are items nontheless. I'm also not sure you've even actually made a reason as to why having to gain more dung xp to obtain your chaotic weapon is bad - personally i think its pretty inventive and fair considering how powerful the longsword is - once again, the only thing that determines how unfair a punishment is the time you have to spend to get it. Make a reason why spending more time to obtain the CLS is more unfair than spending the same amount of time to reobtain other items - whether or not dung is like other skills is irrelevant - hell i think its more like a minigame than even a skill. You can't say xp is useless - thats like saying every skill is practically useless unless it has some great comabt item to obtain at the end of it - the only way your argument would be true is if you were literally losing xp for losing your item.

Also, why it not following a precedant a bad thing? What's wrong with the CLS being obsurdly hard to obtain? Considering its as better than a GS (excluding spec) with a rune defender, it probably should be harder to obtain and REOBTAIN .

I don't see why any of these arguments matter. So losing your cls means you have to back to training dung again and you have to gain more xp to get your cls back. Ok? Thats the same as losing your Ags and having to go fish sharks again. Crap, i have to fish the same number of sharks again and also earn the same amount of xp all over for my ags. My fishing level is functionally useless, because i lost all the money i made with it. Only thing fishing does is let me fish sharks faster and boost my total level - so useless!!! So you lost an item and you have to play runescape more to get it back. I don't see how thats any different from any other item, other than the fact tokens are harder to get than gp, which isn't relevant because all that means is more time lost (losing a chaotic weapon is probably less devastating than losing say, a p hat or a 2bil bank). So losing your CLS is a lil different because you can ONLY train dung to get it back. Not sure why that matters, the only thing you're paying in is time. You pay for every item in time. The value of an item nowadays obviously isn't determined by cost in gp anymore, but the time you took to get it. You say some things are random and could be got in 2 minutes. True, but most of the time it isn't which is the reason vissage isn't like 10k - takes people sometimes months to get one and the time spent is the reason why its valued high. Make an argument as to why the CLS time spent to achieve it and to get it back isn't reflective of its true value.

Chaotic Longsword is terrible in PvP, the Maul is really the biggest concern. And you already have people using that in BH +1 worlds. Probably like 10x worse if people are able to get it back easier. Also, I don't see why the fact that getting a chaotic wep requires lvling up dung matters. Both accumulating gp and accumulating xp/tokens both require time. At a base lvl, the CLS is just another weapons that takes an ass load of time to get. Just as rares/ags takes a lot of time to get. I mean its not like u lose ur 80 dung once u lose ur longsword. Actually, you do. If you get 80 dungeoneering and get your chaotic weapon, then lose it, what good is your 80 dungeoneering? It's literally useless other than being able to access a few new areas (and not even the best one). Tokens ARE experience. Chaotic weapons ARE dungeoneering. GP and dungeoneering tokens cannot be compared, as dungeoneering is a skill and tokens are the only tangible and unique benefit of leveling the skill. Ur 80 dung still upps ur total lvl + rank in highscores? Also i'm pretty sure u can get dung xp faster at 80 dung than u can at lvl 1 dung. Does losing everything in your house (obviously not realistic, but who cares) mean having 99 construction is useless? Probably not. I'm still not sure why it matters even if the item was the point of the skill. Dying in runescape just means u have to spend time making up what u lost. Granted you can't lose skills in rs, but the longsword =/= skill, as much as it might seem like it. 80 dung is a skill which gives u abilities to wield items. the longsowrd isn't in of itself an ability, its just an item which like a lot of other items, take to time to get back again. The real currency and factor that determines the worth of things in runescape is the time it takes to achieve the item. Nothing else allows you to spend less time achieving a lost item. Dung rewards shouldn't be any different.

Chaotic Longsword is terrible in PvP, the Maul is really the biggest concern. And you already have people using that in BH +1 worlds. Probably like 10x worse if people are able to get it back easier. Also, I don't see why the fact that getting a chaotic wep requires lvling up dung matters. Both accumulating gp and accumulating xp/tokens both require time. At a base lvl, the CLS is just another weapons that takes an ass load of time to get. Just as rares/ags takes a lot of time to get. I mean its not like u lose ur 80 dung once u lose ur longsword.

who cares about Mhing? The last PvP needs is noobs bringing chaotic longswords into fights. As if claws and Ags didn't already make pking as messed up as it is now.

Whether or not I take one particular kill (the first one) is kind of unimportant... crashing "politely" is still crashing. Sometimes I'll steal the first kill, sometimes I'll tell them that I'm about to crash them - it doesn't really matter, I think, because ultimately I'm still what you call "stealing" their spot. Also, like I said before - your attitude to what I do is your business. I'll try to make things easier for you, but if someone's going to complain, I won't stop them, and I surely won't listen to them if I feel their complaints are unreasonable. Well happy crashing. I'm not sure why you started a thread to justify crashing if all you were going to say was "i'm going to crash whether crashing is a d-bag move or not".

Likewise, not crashing someone only benefits the person I didn't crash, at my own cost. Why is efficiency a bad standard? I am happier finding joy in efficiency rather than joy out of laziness. Because some of the actions justified by saying "its more efficient" are just flat out rude, and some more extreme examples might be considered flat out unethical. I'm sure it would be more profitable for you to crash, but if you feel that that you have to steal someone elses kill that they were already working on than most people are just going to feel that that's being unneccesarily greedy and is at the height of greediness. You really couldn't have just let someone finish their kill before taking the world? To be honest that just reflects upon how completely self centered you are if you can't settle for anything less than MAXIMUM efficiency and have to resort to taking away other people's enjoyment. Are you really losing that much by waiting a minute to let someone finish their kill and not waste their food+pots spent on taking out 1/3 of its hp? I mean you are already probably going to get every other kill on that world. It's a game, nobody cares about ethics. Efficiency + Fun = Good. Crashing is efficient, and fun. I could have sworn this was a thread about the ethics of crashing....if the only argument was "i can crash cuz its fun and i will" what was the point of even starting this thread?

I don't like you. You've somehow derailed this discussion into a comparison to the real world that neither makes sense nor applies to Runescape in the slightest. Hacking someone's account is AGAINST THE RULES. As others have said, crashing is NOT AGAINST THE RULES. Do you see where your argument went completely off-base? It doesn't matter if someone gets caught hacking or not, because it's AGAINST THE RULES. We are discussing CRASHING, not HACKING. What the [bleep] does hacking have to do with crashing FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING MORE KILLS AT A BOSS? I could go out and hack 10 maxed accounts and I'd STILL have to crash Bandos. It doesn't make a difference. So how, exactly, is hacking more efficient than crashing in regards to killing bosses? I also like how you retired three years ago, but you somehow feel that you're entitled to an opinion. It's really cute. What could you possibly know about the MHing climate in Runescape today? That sig was really old, i still can't figure out how to change it. I started playing about 5 months ago, and didn't start posting on tip.it until recently. I'll figure out how to change it soon. Hacking doesn't have anything to do with MH. But I bet it could be just as efficient way to make money. That's apparently the reason crashing is justified, so i mean i could use that to justify hacking or glitching, or anything else that benifits me in the game no matter how terrible the action is right? Apparently anything that is the best way to benifit the player is ok, so when if i countered every crasher by hacking their accounts? Its efficent yes? Who cares if its against the rules? I can get away with it, just like you can get away with crashing me. I had to take so many computer classes i've earned my right to take happiness away from people.