AlexDT

Ok, this thread is getting out of control. The original argument is this: To make up for the time lost obtaining the torso, you would need to train for about 130m experience. That is the only premise. If you have trouble working out what the OP is trying to say and have decided to argue relentlessly for something which really holds no relevance whatsoever, here are a few lists. Here is a list of things which don't matter: - How much you enjoy Barbarian Assault - Whether or not you would have trained in the time you spent obtaining the torso. We will assume that you would have. - "Perception", whatever the heck that means when applied to mathematics - Any other applications of the words "fun" or "enjoyable" Here is a list of things which do matter: - How long it takes to get the torso - Whether or not the +4 strength boost outweighs the exp you could have gained whilst obtaining the torso - The numbers, which have been worked out Here is a list of things which we can all agree on, but hold no relevance to the original premise: - It is a game, and efficiency should not prevent you from playing Barbarian Assault if you enjoy it - If you like hitting 1 point higher than normal, wear the torso. Or a Bandos Chestplate. Or Vesta's Chainbody. - The torso's stats are better than an adamant chainbody Here is a conclusion: - The time it takes to obtain the torso can only be reimbursed by using the torso for millions upon millions of combat experience points. While Barbarian Assault may be fun, and the torso may be an epic-looking item, and hitting higher occasionally may be good in theory, when you work it out the torso is not all that useful. Do not let this stop you from using it if you already own one, but do not obtain a Fighter Torso simply to boost your exp/hr, because you will actually lose experience.

Did you bother to read this thread and the arguments within, or did you just jump right in? Could you provide some explanation as to why the torso rules? If he is 99 defence and still uses torso you can rest assured none of the arguments in this thread will sway him. I'm 99 defence, and I'm always open to new ways of training, equipping myself, etc :?

Why on earth would you use a torso in the GWD? I can understand wanting to hit higher, but the defence bonuses of verac's or torag's top far, far outweigh the tiny strength boost. It staggers me that someone at your level would make such a terrible choice in armour :shock:

Did you bother to read this thread and the arguments within, or did you just jump right in? Could you provide some explanation as to why the torso rules?

The zerker ring is resellable. You cannot regain the time you spent getting the torso. This argument is not about stats, it is about time, and how it is used.

Not quite : . If you wanted to train Slayer to 99 using piety, you would use more than amount of Prayer potions easily enough. There are many cases in which use alot of Prayer that would help in this respect, while it may take a while, for alot of people it is most likely worth using. I would think someone considering 99 slayer would have at least two 99s, or perhaps a vestment cloak. Do people really go through that many prayer potions to get to 99 slayer? I feel poor now :( But this still doesn't change the fact that a torso is only worth getting if you plan on getting 100m+ combat experience. And after like 50m combat experience you should be able to afford a Bandos Chestplate just from the coin drops.

If you read my post you'll see I said I always do quests regardless of the bonus. My point was if you make this argument against the Torso, it is only fair you do the same for many other items. With the fire cape, say the average person takes 3 attempts to get it, each try takes 1.5 hours, so hence 6 hours to get it. You also get 180k Range experience (I don't know really, but someone else mentioned 60k an attempt). The spend maybe 1million on supplies used. Now the question is, are the bonuses of the cape worth what you used up. You could get the same amount of Range experience at Aviansies in about 4.5 hours and get 1.8mil profit. So it isn't worth it for the Range experience, it must be the bonuses. The attack bonuses will increase experience rates, but by essentially nothing noticeable. The +1 bonus will essentially have no effect. It has +2 better defence bonuses compared to the next best cape (Obsidian in this case, everyone has access to it and it costs a bit over 200k), but that is not really noticeable. Next is the bonus to Strength. Strength clearly isn't worth it considering the torso's strength isn't either. So finally the prayer bonus. Having bought an Obsidian cape and done 4.5 hours at Aviansies you would be up by 2.6million. In order for the +2 prayer bonus to be worth it, you need to save 2.6mil on using Prayer in the future with the cape. Assuming the average player has 70 Prayer, a Prayer potion will restore 96 points at the cost of 8,332. So the Fire cape needs to save approximately 29,957 prayer points, which is about 312 Prayer potions. A +2 Prayer bonus makes 1 Prayer point last about 0.07 seconds longer, but we'll round it off to 0.1. So for every 10 prayer points used 1 extra point is saved, meaning in total you will need to use 299,570 prayer points to be worth it. So if in the future you plan on using over 3,121 prayer potions, the Fire cape is worth getting. I confused my self so badly near the end :? , but I think I got it right still. Feel free to check for any errors. Exactly. Mathematically, the firecape is worthless. The only reason I got mine was because it looks cool. I didn't get it so that my exp per hour would increase, which is what this thread is trying to point out.

I agree with both sides of this particular point. Yes there are some rewards that are great and cannot be gotten other ways to compensate. However, ReapMe is correct still. Say a quests gives experience, yes its great, however, in the time it takes to do the quest, you could have gotten that experience and more. In most cases the experience rewards from quests are not enough to compensate. Quests are more often than not inefficient. I do quests because I like them, I don't care about the rewards. I find them fun and always do them without a guide. The same argument that compfreak847 is making can be applied to items such as the barrows gloves. Are you going to tell me that in the time it takes to get 175QP, have the necessary stats and complete the quest that it is worth using? Compare it to a Regeneration Bracelet. Lower in attack bonuses by on 4 (3 for magic), lower in defence bonuses by 6 (3 for magic), lower in strength by 5, and it costs less than 400k. Its ability to double regeneration of Hitpoints more than compensates for the small decrease in defence. It is almost the exact same argument as with the Torso. However this one provides experience bonuses and takes alot more time to get. In that time you could easily make all the experience you get from rewards and then a plethora of combat experience that trumps the "Barrows" Gloves unless you plan on doing combat for over a couple thousand hours. So don't finish RFD, and use the regen bracelet. Personally, I found RFD fun, so I did it and now I use the barrow gloves. However, even though I enjoyed Barbarian Assault, I haven't used my torso for anything other than incredibly weak monsters, because I find the time saved by eating less food outweighs the exp boost from the measly +4 strength. Nothing compares to the dark gloves, or the fire cape, or other such difficult-to-obtain items, but the torso is just plain trash. If you enjoy B.A, get it, but it isn't worth it simply for the exp boost. The fire cape is sort of a different story, because you gain a significant amount of ranged exp, which, if you succeed on the first try, makes the defence and strength bonuses almost worth it.

Yes, the firecape is not really worth the time if you're only getting it to boost your exp/hr. However, it looks kind of cool, which is why I got mine. The torso is also a fairly nice-looking item. It is not, however, a useful one in terms of exp/hr. Besides, you get about 60k ranged experience when getting a firecape, whereas you get no experience from B.A. You also get exp from Pest Control, and from finishing Recipe for Disaster, so your examples aren't very strong.

[hide=] Here's some FACTS. Your having a problem confusing them with opinions: [FACTS] Torso is NOT worth getting, the time taken to get a torso far outweighs the benefits If you do get a torso, you will get faster XP by dropping it and putting on a proslyte plate\dharoks plate. On certain strength levels it will raise your max hit by 1, but this is fairly unlikely and will most likely not be noticeable; a significant amount of XP will be sacrificed for this. [/FACTS] [OPINION] Every now and then I hit 1 higher with torso, even though I'm getting less XP, I prefer that over getting more XP but occasionally seeing 1 lower hit with a different platebody [/OPINION] Ur "facts" does not answer my perception argument. I value torso above any extra exp i wuld of lost trying to get it. So in the end, I wont' drop torso thxkbai. Anywayz by the time i max my stats, i really could careless about faster exp i can get. 8 hours to getting torso doesn't mean that i am going to use 8 hours on training or making money. If u say in the long run that torso isn't worth it, but we only dumped 8 hours on it. There isn't any guarantee that in those 8 hours anyway wuld train. [/hide] Your perception argument holds no value whatsoever. Please stop thinking that it does, it makes my brain sad. Your torso is not more valuable than the time you lost. FACT. There is no guarantee that in those 8 hours you would have trained. OPINION. Even if you did train for 2 of those 8 hours, you'd still have to use the torso for about 50,000 raised-max hits, and your hits will not always be raised by 1. FACT. [hide=] See above. I 'maxed out' BA because I enjoy it, and I am collecting combat-oriented minigame items. I have never used it for training. I can not forsee myself filling my bank. How was getting it a waste of time, and why should I drop it? [/hide] Becuase the 18 or so hours it took you to get full penance could have been spent gaining about 1.5m combat experience. If you had intended to use the armour to train and gain a raised amount of exp, that would have been wasted time. Because you enjoyed the minigame, it was not wasted time.

[hide=Treeeeee] But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't. be more specific please. additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think. Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting. But like i said, I value torso over all that. it goes back a perception argument. If someone likes torso, they get it because they like it and it outweighs any exp or money they would get. [/hide] No, it will not outweigh any exp or money they would get unless they train for hundreds of millions of exp. Perception is useless here, you are fundamentally wrong. 1 + 1 cannot be perceived to equal anything other than 2. The fun factor holds no mathematical value, so please stop using that.

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

I have no idea if this holds any value whatsoever, but wouldn't the "exp needed to overcome the time wasted in BA" number be lowered by the eating time saved by using the torso over the adamant body? Of course, by that logic you'd be better off using a rune or barrows platebody, which is what any sane person would do anyway... In fact, shouldn't that more than outweigh the +4 strength bonus of the torso? I really can't see any situation in which the torso should be used :?

Yes. The crafting achievement cape :lol: But seriously, the only other two boosts would be an orange spicy stew, or a poison chalice. The chalice boost would be very rare, but the stew shouldn't be too difficult if you just need 1 level.

Get a few duelling rings, fill up your inventory with essence, teleport to the duelling arena, run north, craft an inventory of fire runes, tele back to the castlewars arena, bank, repeat.

You can also kill the abyssal monsters in the Alternate Abyss (Fairy Ring code ALR), or buy the pouches from one of the people in the Runecrafting Guild (Enterance on the second floor of the Wizard Tower).

- Heart Unit is a Pest Control clan. You need a higher combat level to join, but the games go much faster. - Void Melee is only really useful if you're using a high-hitting weapon like a godsword. Otherwise you'd be better off with barrow gloves, neitiznot helm and torso/bandos/whatever. This is because, while it boosts your accuracy by 10%, it also boosts your maximum damage by 10% instead of your strength. This means that it's more useful with a weapon with bigger hits. It also means that it becomes more effective at higher strength and attack levels, so it probably won't work very well for you. - Its defence is terrible - at 99 defence I frequently die while playing Pest Control itself, and those monsters aren't that tough. I wouldn't get it just yet.

There's a "very slim" chance of finding one when you exit the cave. Very slim. Bah. I'm never going to get one. after day one you're giving up, you're a fighter.. i respect that. Nah, I'm pessimist, who has inside of him a bored optimist who will probably keep trying even though the pessimist continues to pessimize. I think.

There's a "very slim" chance of finding one when you exit the cave. Very slim. Bah. I'm never going to get one.

99 smithing for 25m? :o how? Stealing Creation hammers. Only really worth it if you like the minigame, but my friend went from 73 to 92 in a few days and lost about 13m, so I'm assuming it costs about 25.

3/10, I guess. Good luck with the subsequent levels.

Fletching, cooking, firemaking. You could do any of the other skills, but you couldn't do them efficiently - smithing costs about 25m, crafting 60m, herblore 100m... Slayer could cost 2m, but it would take months and is considered one of the hardest 99s to get.

Just teleport to Bounty Hunter, then run north past the right side of the BH crater. When you get to a greenish grassy area, run north-west through the green dragons (bring an antifire shield), up to the lava maze then follow it around until you get to the cage. Dig, kill the mage (just pray magic, he isn't very difficult to defeat), dig again, run south until get you get to level 30 wilderness, and tele out with a glory amulet or pharaoh's sceptre. If you see a revenant, pray ranged (the ranged attacks freeze you), and perhaps bring dragonhide for the magic attacks. Oh, and bring some decent food.

Stick with hunter for 9 more levels, then hunt red chinchompas for a while. I think it's about 200-300k/hr, but the spots are fairly crowded. Aside from that, perhaps yews?

Er... Well, GWD is a lot like GWD. You could try that. Or you could go for 99 hunter and fishing, that would get you about 60m. Then perhaps 85 mining and rune ore hopping? GWD seems like the only viable option for getting 100m or more.