Master_Smither

I've watched this thread since it was posted, and you have changed your argument/viewpoint many times since the start Blyaunte. At first, you were mocking being forced to, let's keep it related to RuneScape, kill frost dragons for 12 hours each day. Then you didn't deny the fact they were being sleep deprived and disagreed that it was torture. You went on to say other people supported you to try and validate your stance, and that is perfectly fine. However, just because every is going to drink punch in a cult, it doesn't mean I should too. Then you go on to say that the prisoners are not, in fact, sleep deprived. This I disagree upon. Evidence: "Labour camp detainees endure hard labour by day, online 'gold farming' by night" --This implies that during the daylight when they could perform the tasks they were assigned, they worked outside using the light. Therefore, their day was already used working and the remainder of your 24 hours as prisoner went to be used to play an online game. However, you played this game in the most dull and menial fashion resulting in utter boredum. "Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [£470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off." --If you look at the context in which the bolded statement was said, it would infer that he is refering to the playing games in 12 hour shifts. Why else would the author of this article order it this way? There is no reason to say hey we worked 12 hours shifts total when talking about them playing online games. One can correctly infer that the prisoners are forced to work day and night, 12 hours of their day being online. Funny how you tell people to go read the article again when people told you the exact same thing when this topic started.

How do you messup something as essential as the login for RuneScape? You link the game to Facebook. :-| You might want to change the title to something more descriptive btw :)

It's not often I read a post as good as that one. Although you only have 179 posts, that has to be the best post on this thread in regards of argument and organization. =D> Also, an added bonus is that I agree with you :^_^:

[hide=more hide tags to save page length XD] I have fun mining, but it's hard to do that when all the training spots are full of bots. Besides, it's not that bots make the game less fun, after all I can always train other skills that they don't affect like DG, but the fact they're not only being lazy but breaking the rules that bothers me. Seeing people blatantly flaunting their disregard for the rules has always rubbed me the wrong way. Really which training spots do you enjoy that are taken by bots? Here is the better question, which spots occupied by bots do they have an advantage over your 97 mining if you are competing? And why does someone's personal choice matter? Its a game, Jagex isn't a deity why do you care so much about someone breaking rules if your not out for a spot on the high scores? Any spot where you can one hit ore at a low level. I.e., clay (yes I mine my own clay for urns while I'm f2p), iron, and all lower ores. Futhermore, all woodcutting areas. Yes it's a game. A game most of us have logged hundreds if not thousands of hours on. This is a game that builds upon the work you've put into it; therefore, most players don't like to see their play time hindered by people who break the rules. The part about breaking the rules only bothers me is because it is Jagex's number one rule basically. It's been the center or the majority of major changes to the game and the rule they swore to uphold when they returned free trade. It's like if the federal government decided to not do anything on terrorism even though they've said they're so guns-[garden tool] about stopping it. I am well aware I just related a game to real life, but on a larger scale, that is exactly what Jagex would be doing. Find a better spot then for clay or iron? Ok you personally chose to legit 99 smithing by cannonball making, someone else chose to bot it and do other things why does it matter? If you enjoyed your time on rs why do you care so much about the person that chose to bot it instead? Devalues your achievement perhaps but it shouldnt devalue your fun [because fun is derived from the activity not the recognition and if that isnt the case I suggest therapy] And if the federal government decided not to pursue terrorism anymore that would be because they decided that its a waste of recources to have troops in foreign countries to find terrorist cells and a better way to fight it would be tighter border control/protect major targets. How would that be a bad thing? In essence that is what Jagex does now. But you are making the call that bots = terrorists with that analogy and it is just plain off. Bots dont hurt your gameplay [unless you love clay/iron mining or use pure ess as a money maker] while a terrorist may harm your life or property. The same cannot be said about bots. [besides the flimsy devalues my money maker/achievement arugments] At any rate to you personally, you CHOSE very mundaine and repetative ways of getting 99's [smithing with cannonballs, mining with gold pre lrc/pure ess] if you feel bad that you did it legit then you should have botted it. If you are mad that someone botting it takes away ingame recognition for your achievements seek therapy. If you are mad that bots devalue your money maker - find a better money maker. If you enjoy clay mining above all else in RS find an empty spot [yes im sure it exists]. If you enjoy mining, say you enjoy LRC, say you want 99. Why does it matter if you enjoyed getting 99, achieved it but someone else cheated. This is entertainment not a job, them cheating means nothing to me if I enjoy what I am doing. Edit: I know it seems rude of me to say that about method you personally used to train but its not you directly im saying it to, its anyone who feels they got cheated by someone cheating. If this was IRL id support you 100% however this is entertainment, if someone cheats in GTA (Grand Theft Auto) and I dont care, after all what difference does it make to me? The only difference comes when theres a pecking order established by a high score list, but I honestly think people who worship those lists need therapy. Edit: Edit: I know im rambling in this post bare with me [/hide] Every good spot for clay and iron are filled with at least three bots per ore cluster in F2P. I was just citing examples for activities levels don't affect when compared against bots. I can outclick bots the majority of time so it isn't a hassle for me, necessarily. I did enjoy my time Smithing to 99. Why do I care about the person botting? They're cheating. The principle is as simple as that. Bots don't affect me until they begin to hinder my game play, and since everyone can use a furnace, they did not hinder my smelting. It never devalued my fun, but it does for sure devalue the achievement if one can not play a single hour and achieve that same skill as I have. As for recognition, explain the entire basis of skill capes. Humans by nature enjoy being recognized for their achievements whether they are real or something online. Why would there be Valedictorian during high school graduations if recognition is not important. I'm not saying it's a driving factor behind people getting 99s, but it's an after product that people enjoy to see/hear. Take strength and cooking for example. Most people do not even buy the capes because they are so popular and therefore devalued. Obviously, recognition is important to players. If the federal government stopped an active approach towards terrorism they wouldn't stop entirely. You said it yourself, they would do something and not just totally stop. Totally stopping is basically what Jagex has done. If Jagex took an approach where they make it harder for bots to function effectively it would be different. They have done nothing besides blow smoke up our posterior ends. Again, you said that RuneScape is for entertainment. If I decide that I loathe frost dragons and want to fish sharks since I enjoy fishing and they were decent money, then that's my choice and it's based on the fun factor. The bots have obviously harmed shark prices and therefore they have devalued something I enjoy and made it near stupid to fish for money. In essence, they ruined that aspect of fun since it's so impractical to perform that task anymore. Therefore, they did affect my game play and hinder my experience in RuneScape. I myself stated that I am not comparing bots to terrorists, but am comparing the actions of Jagex to something on a much larger scale, the federal government. I do not feel bad about the way I achieved 99s. I did them because I LOVED that certain skill and the way of training it that I choose. Personally, smelting three minute batches that allowed me to forum browse and such, is the way I wanted to play RuneScape at that time. I'm not mad about people botting, as Racheya said in her article, "I don't care." It's the fact that they are cheating that bothers me only slightly. It's as simple as that; someone is allowed to cheat blatantly and get away with it. As I said before, empty spots are extremely tough to come by. It doesn't matter to me at least. As I said before, it's the blatant cheating. It's not rude, it's support to your argument and I'm fine with that. The only way bots directly affect you is if they ruin a way you used to play (mentioned above) or hinder your from performing a duty effectively. There are a lot of people who value they place on the high scores. To them, it is a competition and maybe this is the one thing they're good at. Is it wrong for them to have a sense of achievement over a game? Some may say yes, but others would disagree. It's all a matter of opinion and circumstance. My main point is however, it's cheating plain and simple. I'm not criticizing anyone besides Jagex themselves. If you're not going to enforce a rule then simply remove it and do not lie to people by saying you're proactively against it. Personally, bots don't bother me anymore. When I was low leveled I believed I could make a difference by sending it hundreds of names of suspected bots into Jagex. I don't think so anymore. They're something I ,in essence, grew up with and with their return, I'm used to them. Botting isn't a felony or near a major crime; however, when Jagex basis major decisions about botting, they emphasize its importance in RuneScape itself. Therefore, they have established the severity of the offence in people's minds. I had to retype this entire post as I hit add reply earlier and my internet died XD. I hope it's as good as the original. I ask you why the principle of someone cheating matters to you that much? I like to believe im live and let live about a lot of things so its just foreign to me to care about someone else breaking the rules in a way that doesnt harm anyone. A real life example of this would be a pot smoker or someone that gets out of paying traffic tickets somehow. They dont hurt anyone by their actions so I tend to be rather empathetic with them. That is the same attitude I have towards someone who says "Yeah I botted this skill and that skill cause they suck" The reason I say that ingame recognition shouldn't be sought after [and you should seek therapy if it is something you strive for] is that it is a MAJOR factor in developing an unhealthy obsession for the content, it creates the allusion of achieving something when in reality it isn't real. A lot of the top players on the 200m in all skills thread that quit have said similar things. Sure recognition is fun, and pretty nice but it is harmful in my opinion to play for dangerous amounts of times for that high, when spending that amount of time on real challenges will create real recognition as well as real accomplishments. But for your particular runescape accomplishments, I think what you did was great and quite a feat at the time you did it and if you had fun doing it more power to you. :lol: On the Jagex actions towards bots I agree they should be more responsive and actually do something. And I agree with you about bots that directly interfere with your fun are bad. Just something I dont understand still is the ones that dont interfere with your fun such as smith bots or alch bots, why does it matter if the player is cheating? [/hide] It just boils down to myself having pride in certain skills that I have accomplished. There are plenty of people that bot 99 cooking, and do I care? Not particularly. It ruins the fun you could have had and makes the accomplishment (if there is one) meaningless, but that's their choice. People who bot a skill like Runecrafting however kind of annoy me. It's a tedious skill that the majortiy of people who possess the skillcape have pride in. Also, it used to be a major money-maker for skillers that is basically ruined now.The fact that I can do nothing about it however makes it to the point where it's dumb to care if someone is botting anymore. I don't see the point in botting 99's when you can easily play on a private server if abilities is all your after. If you think about it, people who bot are after recognition for no input sometimes. The fact that someone can offer zero input and achieve exactly what the person who spent 100 hundred hours doing whatever annoys me as well. It's as if someone got through the entirity of high school by cheating off someone else and graduated. I understand this happens, but on a much smaller scale. In fine, it takes away from the achievement, someone can achieve something with no input, and the majority of bots now directly harm players (as in they ruin training spots, ruin old money makers, and crowd areas). Note that bots did not affect any of my skills so this isn't me being madbro about this :P.

And really, sitting in the same spot grinding in an MMO for 12 hours is equally extreme. Let's put this in perspective. 8 AM to 8 PM in the same spot, repeating the same task, and being beaten if you don't meet your quota? Combined with said sleep deprivation. The only kind of person who would really be okay with that is an MMO addict, and I really hate to play that card here. Even MMO addicts have Skype, a radio, TV, etc. Imagine sitting with only RuneScape open for 12 hours with one, if any breaks to go to the bathroom and such. It's a form of psychological torture that's for sure. Last I knew the act of playing loud music to prohibit a prisionor to sleep was considering cruel and unusual punishment.

[hide=long quote chain/reply to Ring_World] I have fun mining, but it's hard to do that when all the training spots are full of bots. Besides, it's not that bots make the game less fun, after all I can always train other skills that they don't affect like DG, but the fact they're not only being lazy but breaking the rules that bothers me. Seeing people blatantly flaunting their disregard for the rules has always rubbed me the wrong way. Really which training spots do you enjoy that are taken by bots? Here is the better question, which spots occupied by bots do they have an advantage over your 97 mining if you are competing? And why does someone's personal choice matter? Its a game, Jagex isn't a deity why do you care so much about someone breaking rules if your not out for a spot on the high scores? Any spot where you can one hit ore at a low level. I.e., clay (yes I mine my own clay for urns while I'm f2p), iron, and all lower ores. Futhermore, all woodcutting areas. Yes it's a game. A game most of us have logged hundreds if not thousands of hours on. This is a game that builds upon the work you've put into it; therefore, most players don't like to see their play time hindered by people who break the rules. The part about breaking the rules only bothers me is because it is Jagex's number one rule basically. It's been the center or the majority of major changes to the game and the rule they swore to uphold when they returned free trade. It's like if the federal government decided to not do anything on terrorism even though they've said they're so guns-[garden tool] about stopping it. I am well aware I just related a game to real life, but on a larger scale, that is exactly what Jagex would be doing. Find a better spot then for clay or iron? Ok you personally chose to legit 99 smithing by cannonball making, someone else chose to bot it and do other things why does it matter? If you enjoyed your time on rs why do you care so much about the person that chose to bot it instead? Devalues your achievement perhaps but it shouldnt devalue your fun [because fun is derived from the activity not the recognition and if that isnt the case I suggest therapy] And if the federal government decided not to pursue terrorism anymore that would be because they decided that its a waste of recources to have troops in foreign countries to find terrorist cells and a better way to fight it would be tighter border control/protect major targets. How would that be a bad thing? In essence that is what Jagex does now. But you are making the call that bots = terrorists with that analogy and it is just plain off. Bots dont hurt your gameplay [unless you love clay/iron mining or use pure ess as a money maker] while a terrorist may harm your life or property. The same cannot be said about bots. [besides the flimsy devalues my money maker/achievement arugments] At any rate to you personally, you CHOSE very mundaine and repetative ways of getting 99's [smithing with cannonballs, mining with gold pre lrc/pure ess] if you feel bad that you did it legit then you should have botted it. If you are mad that someone botting it takes away ingame recognition for your achievements seek therapy. If you are mad that bots devalue your money maker - find a better money maker. If you enjoy clay mining above all else in RS find an empty spot [yes im sure it exists]. If you enjoy mining, say you enjoy LRC, say you want 99. Why does it matter if you enjoyed getting 99, achieved it but someone else cheated. This is entertainment not a job, them cheating means nothing to me if I enjoy what I am doing. Edit: I know it seems rude of me to say that about method you personally used to train but its not you directly im saying it to, its anyone who feels they got cheated by someone cheating. If this was IRL id support you 100% however this is entertainment, if someone cheats in GTA (Grand Theft Auto) and I dont care, after all what difference does it make to me? The only difference comes when theres a pecking order established by a high score list, but I honestly think people who worship those lists need therapy. Edit: Edit: I know im rambling in this post bare with me [/hide] Every good spot for clay and iron are filled with at least three bots per ore cluster in F2P. I was just citing examples for activities levels don't affect when compared against bots. I can outclick bots the majority of time so it isn't a hassle for me, necessarily. I did enjoy my time Smithing to 99. Why do I care about the person botting? They're cheating. The principle is as simple as that. Bots don't affect me until they begin to hinder my game play, and since everyone can use a furnace, they did not hinder my smelting. It never devalued my fun, but it does for sure devalue the achievement if one can not play a single hour and achieve that same skill as I have. As for recognition, explain the entire basis of skill capes. Humans by nature enjoy being recognized for their achievements whether they are real or something online. Why would there be Valedictorian during high school graduations if recognition is not important. I'm not saying it's a driving factor behind people getting 99s, but it's an after product that people enjoy to see/hear. Take strength and cooking for example. Most people do not even buy the capes because they are so popular and therefore devalued. Obviously, recognition is important to players. If the federal government stopped an active approach towards terrorism they wouldn't stop entirely. You said it yourself, they would do something and not just totally stop. Totally stopping is basically what Jagex has done. If Jagex took an approach where they make it harder for bots to function effectively it would be different. They have done nothing besides blow smoke up our posterior ends. Again, you said that RuneScape is for entertainment. If I decide that I loathe frost dragons and want to fish sharks since I enjoy fishing and they were decent money, then that's my choice and it's based on the fun factor. The bots have obviously harmed shark prices and therefore they have devalued something I enjoy and made it near stupid to fish for money. In essence, they ruined that aspect of fun since it's so impractical to perform that task anymore. Therefore, they did affect my game play and hinder my experience in RuneScape. I myself stated that I am not comparing bots to terrorists, but am comparing the actions of Jagex to something on a much larger scale, the federal government. I do not feel bad about the way I achieved 99s. I did them because I LOVED that certain skill and the way of training it that I choose. Personally, smelting three minute batches that allowed me to forum browse and such, is the way I wanted to play RuneScape at that time. I'm not mad about people botting, as Racheya said in her article, "I don't care." It's the fact that they are cheating that bothers me only slightly. It's as simple as that; someone is allowed to cheat blatantly and get away with it. As I said before, empty spots are extremely tough to come by. It doesn't matter to me at least. As I said before, it's the blatant cheating. It's not rude, it's support to your argument and I'm fine with that. The only way bots directly affect you is if they ruin a way you used to play (mentioned above) or hinder your from performing a duty effectively. There are a lot of people who value they place on the high scores. To them, it is a competition and maybe this is the one thing they're good at. Is it wrong for them to have a sense of achievement over a game? Some may say yes, but others would disagree. It's all a matter of opinion and circumstance. My main point is however, it's cheating plain and simple. I'm not criticizing anyone besides Jagex themselves. If you're not going to enforce a rule then simply remove it and do not lie to people by saying you're proactively against it. Personally, bots don't bother me anymore. When I was low leveled I believed I could make a difference by sending it hundreds of names of suspected bots into Jagex. I don't think so anymore. They're something I ,in essence, grew up with and with their return, I'm used to them. Botting isn't a felony or near a major crime; however, when Jagex basis major decisions about botting, they emphasize its importance in RuneScape itself. Therefore, they have established the severity of the offence in people's minds. I had to retype this entire post as I hit add reply earlier and my internet died XD. I hope it's as good as the original.

Actually I do believe the earth's axis got tilted due to the Japan earthquake. So it hasn't continued spinning on it's axis unabated.

I have fun mining, but it's hard to do that when all the training spots are full of bots. Besides, it's not that bots make the game less fun, after all I can always train other skills that they don't affect like DG, but the fact they're not only being lazy but breaking the rules that bothers me. Seeing people blatantly flaunting their disregard for the rules has always rubbed me the wrong way. Really which training spots do you enjoy that are taken by bots? Here is the better question, which spots occupied by bots do they have an advantage over your 97 mining if you are competing? And why does someone's personal choice matter? Its a game, Jagex isn't a deity why do you care so much about someone breaking rules if your not out for a spot on the high scores? Any spot where you can one hit ore at a low level. I.e., clay (yes I mine my own clay for urns while I'm f2p), iron, and all lower ores. Futhermore, all woodcutting areas. Yes it's a game. A game most of us have logged hundreds if not thousands of hours on. This is a game that builds upon the work you've put into it; therefore, most players don't like to see their play time hindered by people who break the rules. The part about breaking the rules only bothers me is because it is Jagex's number one rule basically. It's been the center or the majority of major changes to the game and the rule they swore to uphold when they returned free trade. It's like if the federal government decided to not do anything on terrorism even though they've said they're so guns-[garden tool] about stopping it. I am well aware I just related a game to real life, but on a larger scale, that is exactly what Jagex would be doing.

Please feel free to add any other obvious botting spots and/or your name to the support list. Thanks. [/hide] No offence but, I do not think that post is the right approach. Jagex doesn't respond to anything that has the tone of anti-Jagex anymore. All the post needs is a rewording with a lighter tone and it will get player attention and Jagex won't be able to dismiss it as negative. On another note, all of the yew trees around Falador are full of bots. Even barbarian village mine has bots these days... Hey! Re-word it then. I'm not known for my cuddly approach when it comes to dealing with Jagex, but if you think you can re-word it so that it's sweet but to the point (and by "you" I mean ANYONE, not just the "you" you) then by all means, have at it. :) The point I want to get across is that there's way too many fricken' bots in way too many fricken' obvious bot locations, and judging by the sheer numbers of fricken' bots being employed in the fricken' game, right fricken' now, Jagex isn't doing a fricken' thing about it ... ... and yes, I WAS trying to sound like Dr. Evil just then ... :-P Oh -- and I added the woodcutting spots to the list of "obvious bot spots" ... Since it's a wet and dreary Thursday morning...I'll give it a shot. Dear Jagex Mod in Charge of Bot Removal ("JMICOBR"), As an active and caring member of the RuneScape community, I'd love to assist in the bot busting parties by compliling a list of locations frequented by bots. Moreover, the consistent presence of an overwhelming amount of bots, found in common areas, at all times of the day and night, are a hinderance to legitemate players and I applaud you for your recent idea of bot busting parties. This further supports the fact that Jagex is actively hunting down bots and attempted to crush the massive bot problem that consumes RuneScape. When ALL bots are removed from the following well-known common botting locations then players will truely know how proactive the staff is, namely: -blah blah list blah blah I am sure I speak for every player in RuneScape when I say, I cannot wait for the comming of these bot bustin' parties and cannot wait to see the day when bots run in cowardice from our parties! *wipes brown off my nose* I hope this is better.

Add me to the staff list please ^.^. I'm already on the P2P list.

Because no one at a prisoner camp is probably even smart enough to know how to use a computer properly :lol: In all seriousness though, I've always wondered that. They are better off doing manual labor instead of goldfarming tbh. The prison makes more money by making them goldfarm though.

[hide=Shortening the page length] Please feel free to add any other obvious botting spots and/or your name to the support list. Thanks. [/hide] No offence but, I do not think that post is the right approach. Jagex doesn't respond to anything that has the tone of anti-Jagex anymore. All the post needs is a rewording with a lighter tone and it will get player attention and Jagex won't be able to dismiss it as negative. On another note, all of the yew trees around Falador are full of bots. Even barbarian village mine has bots these days...

Jagex may be able to sue and shutdown certain sites that are private enterprises based on gold farming, but it is impossible to shut down prisons, which gold farm. Sounds like a great idea for income though... :mellow: Just think, other countries are borrowing money from China raised by their very own prison, sweatshots.

Except the fact they're out to get the bots who are run by one person and not monitored at all. A better query would be: won't announced bot-bustin' times, for players to join in, signal the occasional botters to not be on at that time or for the people running many bots to log their accounts out for that time period?

So Jagex is paying people to run a giant PR move and ban bots with players to watch them? I'd rather have more staff on the report query team that could sift through all the bot reports made by players. There are plenty of bots who have been reported and nothing is done for days and even weeks. On the other hand, this could be a nice PR push that will put faith in players and allow for people to think Jagex actively working against the massive influx of bots into RuneScape. On the issue of bot ruining techniques, I have one thing to say: They lowered the frequency of random events (the main bot stumbling block) because they inconvienced players. I cannot see Jagex taking any serious measures to inconvience or incapacitate bots because of the massive player base that will be annoyed by the update, no matter how good it is to harm bots.

I didn't realize how much more common 99s are these days...*looks at signature* I feel really old now.

Although it's beating a dead horse per say, it is as important as 26king used to be. There were countless articles in regards to the inflation and problems it was causing, and they were all relative and immediate. Moreover, it's a topic which will draw discussion among the community and that is one the goals when we write. There is plenty to write about within RuneScape, but we choose to pick the current issues at hand and address them. Sometimes a new opinion by an author or bringing an old opinion to light is enough to spark intelligent discussion of the topic, and that is what we love :P. On a different note, very nice articles this week; both were good reads. :) Good DYK this week as well.

I was mad at first, laughed, was mad, then laughed a bit harder. It was so funny how he died. I clawed his friend and she teled (99+13). Then these two guys went after me. I tried running but they camped on either side of the stairs and I was just stuck. So I claw him for one special and then sent my titan on him. Hit him for over 600 HP through his mystic (he had ahrim and was using mystic...weird) then as I was dying, my titan hit over 500HP and just dropped him hard. I rushed back only to see my two friends and his entire 5 man clan on the pile. O well whatever.