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Flag holding takes no strategy whatsoever. All it takes is a really high level or two along with a couple of lower levels around them. It's not complex. It's not hard (assuming you're lucky enough to have good leveled players). It's not in the spirit of C wars.

They won't make a runescape 3 unless the entire world gets overrun with macroers again. They don't see any reason to.

Guys think about it. Every macro in runescape is taking the place of a player too lazy to work for their items. Think about all the yew tree bots. That's alot of cheaters. :shock:

Jagex is incapable of making anything equal. One weapon has to be way better than everything else and the rest of the weapons have to suck.

I hate the new area sounds because now when i'm fishing I have to listen to EVERYONE'S cage, not just my own. :wall: :wall: :wall: It gets quite annoying.

I don't think it really matters whether its a subforum or regular one. It's not going to tremendously affect how this forum is run.

It's not gonna happen. Too many kiddies out there that wouldn't be able to handle it. :( Runescape wasn't designed to give the players the choice on how to behave. It's designed to be heavily moderated. Unfortunately all Jagex can afford is pmods whose only real power is to mute rule one offenders.

Eventually, when too many people have gotten 99's, this would help to keep the game from dying. But other than that it would be very annoying for everybody. It would be better just to make a new game.

This a pretty decent guide. But it certainly would take more than two weeks. You have to take into consideration that the spot you recommend to hunt reds at is almost always taken. :? If no one was there, this guide would be 100% accurate though. :D

it was intended for high levels when it was released, why not add a combat requirement to it? it's too late now, but they're not done with combat requirements, the high levels are getting their way after around 2 years (tzhaar was one of the last really high level updates, if i'm not mistaken) Fighting ability as a requirement to complete something difficult without dying makes your combat level obsolete. The formula for deciding combat is terrible, so why do you put so much faith in it? Now that I think about it, I don't think "high level" is a very good term (unless it has to do with noncombat skills) to describe for whom an update is for. The fight caves are for experienced players, not for any idiot with a number above his head. Do you think at first glance you can tell that a level 126 can beat it?

it was intended for high levels when it was released, why not add a combat requirement to it? it's too late now, but they're not done with combat requirements, the high levels are getting their way after around 2 years (tzhaar was one of the last really high level updates, if i'm not mistaken) Fighting ability as a requirement to complete something difficult without dying makes your combat level obsolete. The formula for deciding combat is terrible, so why do you put so much faith in it? Now that I think about it, I don't think "high level" is a very good term (unless it has to do with noncombat skills) to describe for whom an update is for. The fight caves are for experienced players, not for any idiot with a number above his head.

Okay I made a mistake. I already told you i'm not a quester, correct? My point is that Jagex raised the combat bar far higher than it needed to be.

I'd love to have a customizable weapon :D but it would probably only work is it was really difficult to make. EDIT: how exactly is this a debate?

Make the quest next to impossible to complete under level 85. Eliminate all the safespots and make everyone fight the monsters face to face. I don't care. As long as you're allowed to at least attempt the quest, it can be made as hard as they want for the pures. Some people enjoy the game less if they have to do that. Not because they're too lazy to train, but because they want the prestige of the cape at level 70. It's the player's job to set his or her specific goals, and it's Jagex's job to show the way to meet it. With this recent update Jagex has eliminated the goal of low level quest caper. I don't think that players should get something whatever way they want, but I do think players should be able to set any goals they want. So, basically, if a player's goal is to have a quest cape at level 60, it should be possible. But it shouldn't be possible to achieve this goal without a huge amount of difficulty (no cheating). You're just like all those flamers on RSOF rants. You assume that just because Jagex is bigger than me that they're right and i'm wrong. If Jagex is as ignorant as you imply I highly doubt this game will be of very high quality a few years from now (you can say i'm wrong all you want, that's my opinion). I've found that the bigger something is, the less common sense it contains (just look at America :wall: ). There comes a time when big things need help and advice from small things if they hope to survive. All i'm doing is attempting to provide that advice. You put far too much faith in Jagex. You're basically admitting that if they took away the combat requirement tommorrow you would change your mind about it. I realize fully that all of Jagex is updates are to improve the game, it's just that in many cases I see that they're only helping to destroy it. Combat is different from all the other skills. If the requirement for this was 85 mining, smithing, and farming I wouldn't say anything. But combat is the number displayed above your head, and it's how most people perceive you. Now when you have a cape it's impossible to impress anybody. You're just another 85. But if you would be able to get a cape at level 65, you'd get alot more attention. And combat really doesn't measure how good you are at fighting, or high level of a monster you can kill. In a skill like herblore you know exactly the level you need to make a specific potion. But you'll never know the exact level you'll need before you can survive a fight with Jad. It all depends on how good you are. That's why until now the combat requirement has always just been "be able to defeat a level x monster" and not "must be level x". The quest pures accepted that they wouldn't be able to do everything in this game. You can force them to give up as much of the game content as you want, but don't destroy their ability to play by making their ultimate goal impossible. If the way you wanted to play this game was to be a quest pure then Jagex has forced you to abandon it. No, you're the one missing the point. Let them set a goal by attempting all the quest, and then force them to do it you're way by making progress alot slower/more tedious than the average player. If you chose to stay at level three, it would be next to impossible, but you could at least try to do the quests (until dream mentor). You can't say there's a ton of quests you can't do because technically there aren't. You see, a player should be able to set a goal of quest cape at level three in they want. Then, when they find that the way Jagex lets them do it is too hard for them, they can raise their stats until it isn't. Jagex shouldn't force you to raise stats if you know you really don't need them. Of course, since you KNOW you need the exact level in all the skills, this doesn't apply to anything except dream mentor.

Second Life Stats People basically pay to play, and get payed to play. I am beginning to understand the IRS and their thing now, I'll look over some of the other games that are listed. http://randolfe.typepad.com/randolfe/2007/02/intersecting_tr.html Since that company sells ingame money for real currency, I guess it makes sense to tax them. But it certainly wouldn't make any sense in runescape (that is, as long as rule 12 is observed : ). I really don't get what's going through someone's head when they're thinking of starting a virtual business in a game.

Those idiots in Congress have obviously never played an MMORPG. This is the stupidest idea i've ever heard of. And to think until now I actually didn't mind the IRS... :? If this bill passes we might as well rename america stupididiotsville. O and Peter, can you post a URL from the site you got those quotes?

Of course there are obvious macroers out there. The problem is to 1. Provide factual concrete evidence that they're bots and 2. to ban them. Since there are so many out there it's hard to do sometimes.

Government bodies do that all the time to get more money. They get so worked up with the profit they're going to make they don't realize the moral implication (though I seriously doubt this bill was actually intended for illegal trading).

:wall: double post :wall:

Can someone please tell me how a combat requirement helps the runescape community in anyway? So what if PKing pures can't do it, why would they want to anyway? I understand that capitalism is about pleasing the majority but sometimes the majority just needs to shut and stop whining for awhile so the minority doesn't get shoved under the bus. When I signed up for this MMO, my intention wasn't to do everything under someone's "terms". I have to do that enough in real life. Why should I have to take it from Jagex? Their recent updates have really gotten into everyone's faces. Even know they need to maintain this game, they should leave us alone as much as possible and let players play this game anyway they choose. Whenever I go to the runescape website it say "Runescape - the massive online adventur" on the tab. It's not much of an adventure if all you can do has to align with Jagex narrow way of thinking. It's our game in a sense that we're paying them and making sure that they can make a decent profit. If Jagex doesn't do what the players want, they have no game. So basically a company is the eternal slave to the customers that keep it alive. The ultimate result Jagex wants is of course to make the funnest game possible that the most people can enjoy, correct? By putting a combat requirement on a quest, they have completely eliminated a specific group of player's ability to have fun. So, using this logic, the update wasn't the correct way to go. Bashing people for the choices they make, slightly different than racism perhaps, but still very bad. What's really wrong with being different. In real life we're constantly urged to go with the crowd. I believe an online game should be a refuge from this. There are people out there who want to make quests a better challenge by doing them at a low combat level. Yes, you can always train to 85, but that would defeat the purpose of your role as a quest "pure". And it's not fair to say you can still play how you want. You're contradicting yourself by saying that and saying that you can't try to do all the quests and get a cape in the same sentence.

This sounds alot more like a lowly rant than an actual debate. It's the player's choice if they decide to make their conversations faster by using abreviations. If you want to talk normal, fine. No one's stopping you. If you think that the ppl that talk that way really care that you don't like it, think again. I mean, if it really is bad you could nicely ask them to lighten up on the leet/chat speak, like if it was hard to understand or something. But you should only do that if you absolutely can no longer tolerate it, and you should never resort to outright insults. In, runescape, just like in real life, you have to realize that some people make different choices than you. And unless you're courteous and respectful, chances are you won't get far in life. I don't think you would be exactly thrilled if someone yelled at you for the way YOU speack, would you? Yes, I understand that it is annoying, but you really need to learn to deal with it before you become like one of those impulsive ranters on the RSOF. My philosophy is to try to solve all the bigger problems before you worry about the smaller ones, because the smaller ones may eventually fix themselves. A thread concerning this in debate club should, instead of ranting about the way people talk, attack the larger route of the problem (how these kind of people got here, what influenced them to do stuff like this). This was a fairly long reply, but I hope you got something useful out of it. :)

If Jagex feels this is cheating they can always change around a quest to make it impossible.I don't care how hard it'll be for them, let lower-levels do quests! Since when does a number above your head decide your tendency to "cheat"? If pures cheat eliminate their methods, don't just bar them from doing anything. This is little better than steryotyping. Just because someone doesn't choose to go with the norm doesn't mean he's an automatic n00b. So many runescapians flame certain types of players for being different. It's as low as racism, because it technically is.

Jagex has never tailored to quest pures. At least until now they tolerated their existance...going out of the way to destroy people's ability to play the game the way they want to play it isn't good business :notalk: The quest pures try to play the game in a way that ignores combat levels, and instead focuses on skill and intelligence to solve problems and overcome obstacles. If that's how they personally perceive the game and most enjoy it, then it makes no sense to stop them. As much as you would like to think so, this isn't Jagex's game. It's the players. The players determine how popular a game is. The players decide how much money Jagex is going to make in a given year. Without the players, there is no game. Jagex's role is to listen to players and make policies and updates according to their preference. That's how capitalism works, right? That's exactly the stupidity i'm trying to get past here. For some reason so many people think that taking away a requirement would somehow "nerf" the quest. People don't seem to think things through anymore... It's very unlikely that Jagex will ever understand what's wrong with dream mentor. But maybe with enough persuasion the logic will get through to them, as well as the mob of people on rants. How "correct" something is is measured by what kind of result you want to achieve. If you want a dull game where everyone has to be like everyone else when doing quests, etc., then Jagex is on exactly the right course. But, if you want a real massive online adventure where everyone is able to do things their own way then they have some work to do.

Well no, I wouldn't buy that simple justification at all. If the fellow's looking for a mercenary/bodyguard, proof of competence surely can't be limited to combat level. Were you to saunter in with tales of greater demons and netherworldly apparitions - with a legend's cape and an ancient's staff as proof, no less - I should think he'd jump at the chance, and to hell with combat levels. I haven't done all that many quests, but it seems to me that the requirements of every other quest I've seen made some sort of intrinsic sense. That is, you need level 31 herblore to help Mad Eadgar because you require at least that much skill to reliably prepare his Potion of Truth, and you similarly need level 20 crafting to access Shilo village because you require at least that much skill to avoid reducing the Beads of the Dead to a gaudy trinket. That in mind, if I'm not mistaken, combat level has nothing to do with skill. It's is an abstract value for comparison, and largely imperfect at that, so a combat level requirement is certainly interesting. It would have been no more difficult for Jagex to say that the dream monsters are impervious to normal weapons, and you need at least 80 attack/ranged/whatever to avoid maiming yourself with whatever phantasm weapon the Oneiromancer might hand you... Perhaps it's to spite those players who've been moaning for "high level quests"? A requirement to a quest does not make it high level. Like you said, a combat level is a far from accurate measurement of skill, therefore it's not correct to have a 85 combat requirement. A storyline can be changed without much difficulty. I think at the beginning of the quest lower-levels should have the option of fighting some really strong monster to prove their high level despite the number above their head. I don't see what's wrong with finishing a quest with low stats. There were alot of people who did that just for the extra challenge. I say if they can do it, let them. That has nothing to do with this.

I'm suprised no one has posted a thread on this topic before. This concerns the fairly recent quest "Dream Mentor" along with its 85 combat requirement. Personally I think it's wrong to put combat requirements on quests as it takes away the fun of trying it as a lower level to make it more of a challenge. Although I myself am not a very serious quester and have never attempted it, I have heard from other people on the RSOF that the quest would be far from impossible for a lower level to do. Here's a good quote from a very well-written rant from someone on the official forums. I think it pretty much sums it up. Discuss away :D