Blutters

I expressed my keenness to learn earlier..:) 137 Combat, 93 Dungeoneering, 2159 total~ (Shadowsilk Hood, Primal Battleaxe)

Because dung XP is useless after 85 unless your in it for the e-peen. Everything after that has tokens as the primary objective. And thus you measure the efficiency of gaining tokens in comparison to gaining money. You don't DG to unlock new content? That's my main objective... :( The DG bosses are more challenging and have better mechanics than RRS bosses (even though some would disagree for the sake of disagreeing...) and the lore keeps up with even the best quest storylines. I thought of a better allusion to clarify what I said before though - Woodcutting with Ivy or Magic Trees. Most people consider Ivy more efficient because they can make more money through other activities while gaining quicker XP with Ivy. For Dungeoneering, aside from rather random bits of XP from bonus sources (and no tokens at that), there truly is only one place or method to train it. To simplify the argument: DG XP is invaluable because it is unique to training DG directly. Also to further my previous comment about Castle Wars and the Chaotic Kiteshield: Magic Defense does not matter [as much] in Castle Wars, for those who are not going after the flag anyway. I have first hand experience from when I was 95ish Magic that one can easily hit through Armadyl and Deflect Magic and even quite high at that. Even those people with Spectral, Arma top/legs, Inf boots - the works - can often get frozen and then killed with just Magic, although some will almost always slip through. Clotting is rather literally just getting as many players as possible to pile you for as long as possible to take away from the other team's Defenses. In this sense, the DFS or CKS are superior to the DSS because you don't want to carry any potions (except OVL, pers-pref) around with you. Typically, ancienters will stay within their own base to guard their flag, so you won't have to worry about them anyway. I personally am not concerned with costs of quicker degradation since I'd already be using CR and since CW has no real benefits anyway.

I think this last page answers the question posed at the thread's beginning: The best way to teach is to perform. If you take people who honestly want to become better with you and teach them the things that aren't so obvious, they will get better. Having said that, I woud like to go with you if any of you proclaimed PDGers were willing to do the above. Also, Ancient, I was reading your guide for non-keyers and there you said that non-keyers should create healer familiars rather than bloodragers... I'm not sure if that was put there intentionally or not... :unsure:

I've had my heart set on the CKS for a while now for many reasons that don't really count here because they're more personal (the "fun argument") than anything else... I would like to ask how one would justify buying Armadyl or Karil's instead of Black Dragonhide for a minimal advantage but completely count-out the CKS's 12-15 point lead in melee Defenses over its closest competitor, the DFS. Also, as per a comment on the other thread, apparently the damage soaking ability "counts" as about 10 more points of melee Defenses, so it's up to a 25 point lead (in each melee stat) over the DFS, which I feel is significant. This is obviousy purely for melee VS melee and melee VS Ranged, which isn't a problem in some particular situations. My main personal niche reason for buying it is clotting at Castle Wars, if that matters. I'd like to pose: You can only really train Dungeoneering in one way, so there's not much of a cost VS cost type thing; if you're DG'ing for DG XP, how can you use the cost/hr efficiency argument? You're leveling Dungeoneering at the same time, so it might as well be said that you're training Dungeoneering as a main objective and gaining tokens on the side. I guess I just find it unfair to negate the importance of the DG XP you get in the examples of FKS VS ASS (lol). (Wow lol I started writing this hours ago and just came back to it so yeah...)

The Doomcore Staff is really only for those who have only the base minimum level to use them, if that doesn't go without saying. They do look rather neat, though... I realize that this is the "Pro DG" thread, but still keep in mind that the Celestial Catalytic Staff requires 99 Magic.

I gotta ask why you consider DFS better than CKS...

Yes... Why are any of the three shields "crap", as some of you have so eloquently put it? They're not better, but they're not bad...

Why not mention Abyssal Whips and Barrows armor in the same argument? They basically have taken your first bulleted point and applied it to Abyssal Whips - the Chaotic weapons are unbalancedly overpowered, but harder to get than their counterparts.

Which is also why there are Dragonkin statues and symbols in the castle above, but none inside the Demon Halls themselves. Remeber, the Dragonkin have a lot to do with this. It couldn't be a mere coincedience that they built a castle atop of this "Rift". (8x8) I had written 8 times 8 - but then editted it to 10 times 10 cuz i got in doubt First impression is usually the right 1 i guess... To revive page ~15 on this thread - i got a Battle axe insted of a longsword And its sooo much better I agree, crush seems to work on any high level melee monster, especially demons and giants.

It's not so much etiquette as it is just not doing stupid things. Armor will not save enough food to be worth making, period. One fishing spot worth of food is likely more than double the food you would save by making armor, and fishing/cooking takes about the same amount of time as mining/smithing. The fact that you believe that armor is a worthwhile use of time when there are so many other things that you could be doing instead shows that you're not ready to not enrage pro DGers. There's a reason they're called "pro." The fact that you feel that their decisions and priorities are wrong is a poor reflection on you, not them. If you want to play with people who are good, you'll have to also play well. That's really rather harsher than should follow what I said. I repeat: I make armor only when I know the resources are plentiful and quick to get to, and it's already going pretty bad, which thankfully isn't often. I suppose I could rephrase that in the kind of BS dungeons I mostly get caught in, where everyone is having to fend for themselves, taking time to make armor is worthwhile and the last time I did it I was invincible. Either way I guess you answered me... That with your teams it's never worthwhile.

I don't make armor every dungeon and in fact usually just run around with found clothes from monster drops, but the times I DO make armor it helps more than you say... :mellow: It's not really selfish if it helps you save food and leave more on the ground for your teammates. Basically, for when I'm forced to do so, I keep track of where rocks are and then go back to them when there's a lull, as for a puzzle room like the tile room or something that takes a few minutes. I do make myself a full set but then create platebodies or platelegs for the other people. I need to read the thread author's guide... I don't know how to access people of "pro DG" stature. I have maxed combat aside from Summoning, and 91 DG, but only mid-high 80s in most skills... I do the main things like listen to the keyer and at least try to gate places if no one else does, and I know monster weaknesses and priorities. I think the main thing that has stopped me seeking out pro teams thus-far is reluctance to be with people that will kick me for failing some small nuance of elite etiquette.

How much time is truly lost if you just mine or set traps as you go along? I don't do so often, but I did on the last W117 I went through and I was untouchable (Katagon, higher Occult floor)... It didn't feel like it took that long, but perhaps our perceptions of time are different. I'm pretty sure you guys are gonna rip me a new one for even asking this <_< But the amount of ease VS time spent... :unsure:

But, about the whole kicking thing, I thought kicking wasn't able to happen after the boss was found, and required an unanimous vote from the rest of the team at that? *Before the Warped floors anyway*

So, uh, WTF. Apparently people can be kicked once the boss has been found, and with less than a full 4 vote.

I second this, and all the other notes please :thumbup: Yes, something. I can't believe I can't find them anywhere else. As I suggested two pages back, if you skip to the end of new boss fight videos you can find at least the boss specific lores. Of course I feel people may have ignored me before because it's too much for them to do this... :rolleyes:

Yes, you're probably right. You know that whole Plague City storyline? It's an allusion of the entire situation, created by the original J-Mods who couldn't stand the guilt from what the newer ones were doing and wished to tell the truth in a vague way. No, really, think about it.

Can the new pet be put in a menagerie?

What a strange thing to do :S for what it's worth, you can still view the contents of the older journal entries through the page's history. The newer ones don't seem to have been added yet, though. They probably only removed the newer ones. I read them at the end of new boss videos on YT.

Someone in general discussion confirmed that it's solely an ammo bind, though I would like to see a little more confirmation. Ah, well sorry then, but I mean it gives stats and you wield it... And I've heard it both ways... :unsure:

FYI, I'm pretty sure that the surgebox counts for a main bind as well as the ammo bind... Something to keep in mind.

Sounds good to me. It's not like it's very hard to get those items back if you change your mind...

I think I was right on target when I predicted that in the intended sense, Magic would be the best attack style for the Warped theme, although to be sure we will need more time. Full chart now.

"Since our members make excellent beta testers, we've decided to give everyone back their dungeoneering tokens, equal to 1/10 their current XP". No... a much easier way of doing this would be to implement some way of trading in items and getting tokens back. For example, a generic code for selling back a CLS would be: if (player uses a CLS on rewards trader) { tokens = 200000; degradeMod = (item.getDegrade() - 20)*20000; tokens += degradeMod; player.tokens += tokens; item.destroy; } I agree with a trade-in option. However, if I understand your code, a player could create tokens by charging their items with cash and then trading them back in...

If you think it's worth your time to switch the amulet every single kill for 30k an hour, go for it. To me 30k per hour is not worth anywhere near that much hassle, let alone how long it would take to pay off the tokens that you spent on the amulet rather than chaotic recharging. It's not worth MY time, I was simply being optimistic. <_<

A very generous estimate for the amount of money you'll save with that necklace is 5 prayer pots per hour, or about 30k gp. Which is nothing at ALL compared to the offense you're losing out on without a glory/fury. To make the most of it you would wear Fury while fighting and put the other on as the monster was about to die. I will buy it just because it's the highest level reward, but I doubt I'll ever use it. At the moment the only thing on my list from the NEW rewards is the pet, rofl. I am wondering, though - Farseer Kiteshield >/< Celestial Surgebox?