Assume Nothing

I call this the toppling point. Efficiency is NOT just about grinding your ass off. Efficiency, factors in fun. If you are no longer enjoying the activity, then it is no longer fun, and thus, no longer efficient. Edit - End of break, I'll post more in roughly an hour and a half.

Even more useful if you're a chef. Reminds me of my parents, as incredible knife skills are required for a Chinese restaurant. They can literally can dice an onion within 20 seconds >.>

[hide] Not making excuses for anyone. You can't seem to understand where anyone was coming from, i was explaining it to you. They had legitimate things to say, and got frustrated. No excuses there just telling you why. Yes, some people took it too far. But that's not what i was trying to argue. Well actually quite a few people posted plenty of legitimate things, you didn't seem to get any of it, so they insulted you after. Yes, when you are sitting here asking for adult conversations and real arguments, then someone presents them and you ignore them, what do you expect other then more insults? Well lets see here, proof you don't read. That's what i said... PEOPLE INSULTED YOU. So where exactly did i claim i didn't see any insult your way? Obliviously you didn't read my post. Yes because grimy bunyip, xpx, pere... they had nothing to say but nonsense right? They made their points that apparently everyone else understood (given they are not getting insulted by anyone other then you) Onto the posts being hidden, as i said before, no one is perfect. I am not blaming anyone for poor behavior. Yes people said things to you that shouldn't have been said, but there were legit posts that were hidden. And well if we can't prove it, i will leave that argument here. How much of this forum do you read? There are plenty of people presenting issues, arguments, and evidence to support them. Stop changing what they are saying and making it out to be a bully issue. This isn't the 3rd grade, this isn't the runescape official forums. It's here if anywhere, that you can have a great discussion (granted there is plenty of flaming, idiots, and things that plague the rest of the internet as well as here). But don't skew and generalize the people. By the way pack hunters with no balls? You were looking for when you insult people... well there it is. Stop trying to defend yourself to make it seem like you are some sort of intelligent adult looking for a good discussion that has done nothing wrong (by the way, if you say you are not claiming to be perfect you are a hypocrite. People insult you, then you go on badgering them on how you want an adult conversation, but you sit there and insult right back). You are insulting people as well.(yes i understand you were insulted first, but you also sit there and try to turn it around on them) And i think if you read my posts you would see i never mentioned that. Alright i understand that. But i think everyone's problem (well at least ob's) was he felt he did a good enough job justifying why he was efficient (as well as a few others)and to ask for anymore evidence is ridiculous. You didn't feel it was good enough, and well we know what came from that. That's everyone's problem with you. Many posters provide their points in what seems to be across the board (other then you) acceptable manner. You go on saying they have no points, they start insulting you because every other poster understood this. [/hide] Well, he did respond to my posts, so I can assume that he does actually read posts. As for the xp thing for me; It really depends on the skill, and level of loathing I have for it really. If I can get Summoning Xp through Nail Beasts 5 times faster, but collecting those stupid nails are a [bleep], I'd rather train via Yaks/Titans.

You'll pay for your entire circle? What idiots. Yeah that's what they assume. Wow. We might lend some money here and there, but for the most part everybody pays for their meal in my circle. It happens more often then not too, which is what really bugs me. They're great guys and girls it's just really annoying. I think I've only not paid once. And that time was when we went to my work to eat and I provided the 50% discount on everything, even then I still got some crap for it. I guess it can't be helped though, so whatever. Would that be 'rented' friends? :|

No need to. We all know what went on. Whether people ignore it is entirely up to them. You lost quite a few posts. Claiming that none of your posts got removed is a lie, or it is ignoring the fact that you lost quite a few posts. Let's just stop this discussion about deleted posts. It is pointless, and irrelevant. On Topic; I've been looking back through the pages and an interesting point comes up. Help and Advice posts. You often see people say 'Train slayer!!' whenever someone mentions they want to train combat, or want to simply earn some money. Although Slayer can be efficient for you, because you love it, others may hate it, and because it's also less xp than killing Armoured Zombies, or other training monsters, it would be 'inefficient'. Edit - Another question strikes me. If you can gain 5 times more xp/h at one spot, but you dislike it, whilst you can gain 1 times the xp/h at another spot, but you like it, which one is more 'efficient'? Would you factor in fun first, or the xp first?

Since I don't know of that method, I would consider Smithing and Mining independent. A better example would be Slayer and Combat, you can't level slayer without gaining xp in Combat skills. Edit - Yes, you can gain xp via lamps and soulwars, but that's so slow/insignificant that it's not even worth mentioning

Correct - No argument there. Just one point - which independant skills are you referring to? Smithing and Mining, RuneCrafting and Mining, RuneCrafting and Magic, Fishing and Cooking, etc.

You believe self-sufficiency is fun, you believe self-sufficiency is the way the game is meant to be played. That is fine. It is, however, an opinion, a position where it can be argued against. I don't like self-sufficiency, I find it slow and tedious. I find it easier to simply make the money and buy the raw materials, and from that perspective, it is -not- more efficient to train independent skills together (although, for you, because you enjoy it, it would be more efficient). Not sure what's your point about the 'deleted posts', they were deleted for a reason, and how are you going to prove which ones got deleted? The fact is, you can't. What you don't seem to realise is, efficiency is relative. If it's more efficient for you, fine, it wouldn't always be more efficient for me, so don't pretend it is.

Banned for smileys

kill green dragons - rage at the quantity of bots there, lol Bots very rarely exist in PvP. Pretty sure those can reach 3m/h if you're doing it right 3mil an hour? :blink: :shock: :eek: Thats worth bringing a cannon, tort, super set, and a large supply of games necklaces for easy banking Am i close on the method? bank at dung and teleport to clan wars and kill the drags east of it and put a cannon to lul at the competition? Or is the 3mil an hour different because my curiosity has been peaked To get that figure you have to be able to PvP effectively. Only works with Yak, and gotta be aware of the Dclawers/Mages that randomly attack people.

Fun isn't factored in because it's impossible. Everyone finds different things fun, so you can go around saying "Well this is the most fun option to do" when someone else could easily find something else more fun to do. Fun is opinion, and very hard to put on a scale, so yes, it's pretty much impossible to spreadsheet it. The best way to go about it is compare activities that are deemed fun, and efficient, and see which one is most efficient. For me, efficiency and fun have a positive correlation, because I enjoy doing things faster. And a lot of people have fun being efficient, I have fun doing...what's fun lol. I bought 9m in runes a few months back and used them all in Castle Wars, most people would think that's a huge waste, I didn't because I really enjoy playing Castle Wars, so it was worth it to me. According to the freedictionary, fun means this; fun [fʌn] n 1. a source of enjoyment, amusement, diversion, etc. 2. pleasure, gaiety, or merriment 3. jest or sport (esp in the phrases in or for fun) I derive pleasure from hitting higher numbers, I have less patience for slower skills, and I source my enjoyment from knowing that I'm doing something efficiently, reaching my goals faster.

Fun isn't factored in because it's impossible. Everyone finds different things fun, so you can go around saying "Well this is the most fun option to do" when someone else could easily find something else more fun to do. Fun is opinion, and very hard to put on a scale, so yes, it's pretty much impossible to spreadsheet it. The best way to go about it is compare activities that are deemed fun, and efficient, and see which one is most efficient. For me, efficiency and fun have a positive correlation, because I enjoy doing things faster.

The people on this thread are very uneducated about efficiency. Efficiency is nothing about grinding your ass off for 20 hours straight, trying to squeeze as much xp in that time possible. The correct term for that is 'no lifing'. Efficiency, is a term, that factors in fun (impossible to do on a spreadsheet, however), effort, time, experience/profit, stats and cost. The general aim is to minimize the time spent reaching your goals (minimizing inputs, and increasing outputs basically), whilst keeping the gameplay fun. Some argue that efficient playing is -not- fun. This is simply not true, because you can be efficient and have fun at the same time. (Such as training Slayer with Turmoil, which is efficient because it speeds up the experience gaining, and fun because hitting higher is in general, enjoyable). In fact, being efficient is in general, 'fun', because people want to maximise their xp/income per hour. The only time when being efficient isn't fun is where there is little reward for putting alot more effort, such as gaining an extra 5k xp/h in Rc but using much more attention, which wears people out faster. (In a technical sense, it isn't really efficient if you're putting alot more effort in) Efficiency is always relative to your own, personal goals. When people post in H&A, it is assumed that fun won't be factored in (since asking for the 'best' option often means going after the best gp/xp, or the best xp/h). On a related note, claiming that linking Independent skills is more efficient than not, is both silly and irrational. It's much more efficient to obtain raw materials through trading than obtaining them through resource skills, because it only takes 10 seconds for a purchase as opposed to many hours of obtaining said material. (Given that the price of the item is low, and gathering takes a long time, such as Mort Myre Fungi for Herblore or Adamantite Ore for Smithing) As different players value time differently, there is no universal way to say 'This is the most efficient method of training for all players'. Some value time at 0gp, such as myself, because I usually hang around talking, but some people value their time at 4m/h, because they enjoy bosshunting and can actually make that much, per hour. To compare efficiency, (quote taken from the RS Wiki page); One last thing: Posting that you cannot understand something doesn't make the subject any less valid. Name calling doesn't benefit you either. Seeing as no poster could prove who's posts got removed, it's best to avoid the subject.

Me scratches my head

That's what Frost Dragons exist for. They aren't bosses, yet they're still great profit.

50

Banned for everything that has ever existed. In the past, present, or future.

208k views, 33.2k posts. Lol I've gotten more views on a 50 page thread Can we count to 500?

Must be one of the biggest threads on TIF

If there was no 45 second thing... and we had 50+ users in this thread... should be easy to get the 500th post

Lol. Who remembers this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilncM0gOtTQ

You know what's better? A subways and a very cold Coke

I can spit something into the air and catch it again, is that considered a talent? >.>

You're comparing apples and oranges. Maybe you should compare it to birds or turtles, creatures that lay eggs. Are you allowed to go smash turtle eggs in the UK? Its illegal in America. Never heard of someone performing an abortion on another animal... maybe we need to give them those rights? Accidental breeding and we should *fix* the accident? I guess. So, when the world starts overpopulating (which is already happening), would Abortion still be considered murder?

Does anyone know where I can get some good recipes for more eastern style foods? (like, Cantonese Cuisine?)