Assume Nothing

I agree, but just because someone is making minimum wage doesn't mean they shouldn't be tipped. Tipping should be socially encouraged, but not mandatory. I think that's the best compromise... We're not suggesting that - it's a blatant misrepresentation of our position. We simply want tipping to be a choice, as opposed to an obligation. I don't mind it being social etiquette, but I do mind it being an expectation (I realise I phrased my thoughts poorly in an earlier post). That's the difference. I never said it was your position. "I agree, but just because someone is making minimum wage doesn't mean they shouldn't be tipped." It's implicit.

I agree, but just because someone is making minimum wage doesn't mean they shouldn't be tipped. Tipping should be socially encouraged, but not mandatory. I think that's the best compromise... We're not suggesting that - it's a blatant misrepresentation of our position. We simply want tipping to be a choice, as opposed to an obligation. I don't mind it being social etiquette, but I do mind it being an expectation (I realise I phrased my thoughts poorly in an earlier post). That's the difference.

Banned for understanding Chinese choreography - 'You are insane/an idiot'

Banned for having misogynistic views.

It can't - they're completely separate things. I like how the UK/US viewpoints clash, though.

Are you suggesting that those employees have some sort of entitlement to that money? It's as if you're implying that not being wasteful with money is a heinous crime. I operate on this philosophy; I only tip when I feel they're deserving of the tip.

If she's neglecting her own daughter, and you haven't consented to looking after her, then you have no responsibility to look after the child. You're feeding your family exactly what they want - you're an easy target. It may be important to realise that, but I digress. We've told you all before - do something about it.

Banned for asserting dominance over Blaze.

It's not arbitrary - it's what's deemed sufficient, despite a subjective aspect to it. It's improbable that no one tips should they perform to an average standard - it's more likely that tips would simply be of lesser value. To address your presupposition; I'm certain those who receive minimum wage can support themselves on their income, unless they're unable to receive sufficient hours to pay for their bills and such. I'm unsure how your implicit argument that 'waiters should receive a wage-rate sufficient to support oneself, beyond what employers are willing to pay' would be of any relationship to why 'patrons ought to feel an obligation to tip waiters'. It's simply not our duty as consumers to do so. I understand why you can empathize, but I don't share this empathy. I tip on the basis of good quality service. It may be a good idea to pull some figures, since we're discussing theory here. EDIT - If the minimum wage is much lower, then it's a problem with the industry - not the consumers. I still see no reason why the responsibility shifts towards the consumers.

So you tip the guy at the checkouts in supermarkets or shop assistants? Do you tip the bus driver? Etc... No. They get paid for their job, and so do waiters. If the managers take advantage of the social norm that tipping has become and pay less than minimum wage then that's something that should be sorted, but people shouldn't feel obligated to tip because someone is taking advantage of the system. Do checkouts get paid largely below minimum wages? Shop assistants? Bus drivers? Etc... Therefore, your point is entirely invalid; you ignored the other part of my post, obviously. Where I said that waiters and so on get paid under minimum wage. Fight the people that are causing this, not the waitress. Don't like tipping? Don't eat out. [hide=Random off-topic point]Again, this is why charities don't work, either. Yea, you have some people donating, but not enough. This is why social welfare is a necessary evil. This is why taxes are a necessary evil. So on.[/hide] There's no valid reason why an employer should pay under minimum wage with the expectation that servers would receive sufficient tips to supplement a sub-par income. The fundamental purpose of tipping - to express gratitude in monetary form, has been lost. It's no longer a choice, it's now a obligation - whereby tipping is essentially mandatory. It ought to be a choice, based on the level of service provided (which serves as an incentive for service industry employees to go beyond their employer's expectations), as it's simply unfair that there's essentially a hidden fee - not because the service provided were excellent, but because the employees are being exploited. If tipping weren't mandatory, we'd see earnings more reflective of the actual quality of services being provided. I prefer the UK system, whereby wages are sufficient to meet the national minimum wage standard. If the system needs changing, then the first thing that needs changing would be the tipping itself - when that changes, employers would be forced to adjust to new wage rates. It's absurd to suggest that the patrons are responsible for the exploitation of employees. Your so-called "solution" only hurts the waiter or whoever else. Not the employer, not anyone else. So again, I fail to see how it will solve anything. Instead, the waiters would have to get another job to sustain themselves, if they don't have another one already. Which is not so easy, especially in this economy. People are under the assumption that an employer cares about its employees. That is true to this extent: as long as the employee is profitable. Why do you think companies outsource? Is it to help the economies of China and Taiwan and so many others, and provide money for their poor citizens? No. It is to make more money. If a company here could legally get away with paying an employee peanuts per hour, I don't doubt many would be in uproar over the law. Rather, they'd try their best to pay employees peanuts on the hour, and for as long as they are able to get away with it, they will continue. What? You should elaborate on your point - how exactly does it hurt the waiter with my proposal? Your assertions currently hold little to no weight. I see no reason to tip an employee unless they provide a good service. If the employees are being exploited, then the accountability should lay within the government's hands - not the patrons. I see no reason to empathize - it's not my responsibility as a consumer to provide waiters with a supplementary wage rate. It's simply absurd to suggest that tipping should be mandatory.

So you tip the guy at the checkouts in supermarkets or shop assistants? Do you tip the bus driver? Etc... No. They get paid for their job, and so do waiters. If the managers take advantage of the social norm that tipping has become and pay less than minimum wage then that's something that should be sorted, but people shouldn't feel obligated to tip because someone is taking advantage of the system. Do checkouts get paid largely below minimum wages? Shop assistants? Bus drivers? Etc... Therefore, your point is entirely invalid; you ignored the other part of my post, obviously. Where I said that waiters and so on get paid under minimum wage. Fight the people that are causing this, not the waitress. Don't like tipping? Don't eat out. [hide=Random off-topic point]Again, this is why charities don't work, either. Yea, you have some people donating, but not enough. This is why social welfare is a necessary evil. This is why taxes are a necessary evil. So on.[/hide] There's no valid reason why an employer should pay under minimum wage with the expectation that servers would receive sufficient tips to supplement a sub-par income. The fundamental purpose of tipping - to express gratitude in monetary form, has been lost. It's no longer a choice, it's now a obligation - whereby tipping is essentially mandatory. It ought to be a choice, based on the level of service provided (which serves as an incentive for service industry employees to go beyond their employer's expectations), as it's simply unfair that there's essentially a hidden fee - not because the service provided were excellent, but because the employees are being exploited. If tipping weren't mandatory, we'd see earnings more reflective of the actual quality of services being provided. I prefer the UK system, whereby wages are sufficient to meet the national minimum wage standard. If the system needs changing, then the first thing that needs changing would be the tipping itself - when that changes, employers would be forced to adjust to new wage rates. It's absurd to suggest that the patrons are responsible for the exploitation of employees.

Banned for failing to write a dialectical argument regarding cannibalism.

It's very dependant on how the bot functions - it's much more difficult to take down colourbots on legal grounds.

6/10. I see you posting on a particular thread pretty often.

I dislike how tipping has become a social etiquette even if the service provided is considered inadequate/mediocre. The fundamental purpose of tipping - to express gratitude in a monetary form, has been lost - it has become an expectation. I despise those who deem it's necessary to sabotage someone's product on the basis that they don't tip - it's counterproductive and simply immoral. In the UK, tips aren't mandatory - there's no expectation of a tip, but it's appreciated. I tip depending on the type of service being provided, and the initial cost of the product itself. It's not linear with the price I pay for the products either - I wouldn't tip £50 on a £500 good, but I'd tip at least £20. It really depends on the situation. I'd tip in a bar, a casino, a venue, and anywhere else that involves a high level of social interaction between myself (the consumer) and the employee. I wouldn't tip a fast food worker, though - it's typical that they don't go beyond the obligations of the job description.

Banned for the idolatry of a false deity - for I am an envious God! It is I, YHWH, that is the LORD whom transcends to save you - only if you accept my son Jesus as your LORD and SAVIOUR! You shall be rewarded with eternal bliss, or you can choose to BURN. You shall repent your unclean soul's wretched sins, or fear my WRATH! *throws lightning bolt at you*

>Medicine and its side effects. Do elaborate.

It doesn't seem to be much more than an attempt to deride men on the basis of a strawman argument that's obviously dishonest.

If it's coupled with the coin pouch, it could be used for good trolling by dropping a stack of 10k gp

I see makeup as analogous to pizza toppings. If you overdo it, you'll ruin it. It's probably a terrible analogy though.

Religious dogma to the knee. Only effective if you lack logic.

I shall mirror that to you.

Banned for blocking megaupload.

It's not Intellectual Property or Piracy they're worried about. They want to censor the internet like the way Kim Jung Il, or China did - internationally.

It was directed at Stri, not you. "Congratulations." Could you quote where he explicitly states that JaGex ought to implement casinos, and where he states that it's the 'be all end all of this issue'? You're clearly attempting to undermine his argument by attempting to ridicule him.