quelmotz

Now I've had the suggestion of flaming weapons and such suggested to me multiple times, and I think they are viable, but they are rather clichéd and furthermore, the flames would just do something like poison and disease. Being similar to one is already bad enough, but two? I doubt we need to further obfuscate herblore, potions, and the situation PvPers are in with "anti-fire" potions. On a side note, there are already anti-fire potions ingame, so they might be extended to cure "fire".

Dear sir, have you heard of the psychomotor phenomenon often colloquially known as a quick reaction time?

Honestly, I wasn't sure before but now I'm convinced that you're nothing more than a crap troll trying to get attention. You ignore anything that directly refutes your arguments and then twist everybody elses' points around before responding to the argument you yourself distorted. You're quick to flame, but slow to actually present anything resembling a coherent argument. You've basically gone around insulting everybody in this post who disagrees with you despite the fact that you lack anything resembling knowledge about RS. I'd say that I'm done arguing with you, but you haven't really done any arguing; instead you've just jumped around the issue and tossed in an insult whenever you could squeeze one in. Talk all you like. Think what you like. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you over this issue. You yourself are guilty of many of those things you mention above. I've presented my arguments many times but you seem to be unable to comprehend them or more likely, are purposely ignoring them as you lack a coherent answer. You were speaking directly? Looking at your gigantic wall of text and rather irrelevant scenarios, I think you're the one beating around the bush and EXAGGERATING. Sarcasm - Noun 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony. 2.a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms. Check the dictionary first next time. Did I ever say my opinion was almighty and always correct? You seem to be unable to comprehend the fact that a debate is heavily based on opinions with a few facts thrown in. From your comment it seems you're claiming your opinion is the one and only to be accepted. Just go and look at Jagex's developer blog. I can't be bothered to explain to you why Jagex needed to change HP to Constitution. ---------------- Seriously, let's stop wasting time on the above issue. Let me present my arguments again: 1. More accurate results were enabled to be calculated as a result of the update. This is technically both a pro and a con since you hit higher but your opponents hit higher too. It doesn't matter what your attack level is since you'll perpetually be fighting monsters (that have higher defense or the same defense as you) and players, who obviously have the same or higher defense level as you (unless you like to pick on lower levels, but that's besides the point). 2. Horizons were opened with this update. An update doesn't need to do something immediately. Although no updates with regards to the Constitution skill have been released, we can still count this as a pro since it ALLOWS new updates. Whether the updates are good or not isn't relevant. The fact is that it opens up the health system to new updates. On the other hand, many of the cons to this update will be neutralised over time, as players adapt to the update. One of the more lasting cons is that monsters/players also hit higher against you, but since that is also a pro for the players, it merely negates pro number 1. So as I see it this debate is going to be based on whether an update that opens new horizons counts as an advantage/benefit.

I really must learn from you to avoid the points you can't answer. That is, that you purposely avoided replying to the fact that your usage of abusive language simply reflects your lack of respect for others. I'll just take this opportunity to make myself clear: I'm quite a nice person in real-life. I can be sarcastic, blunt and slightly impulsive (sometimes ending up offending people), but I respect people and am not selfish or rude. Who here plays RuneScape as if it was some form of homework? No one. Playing RuneScape lets you relax. When you're tired out after a long day of school/work/what have you, you simply don't give a damn for respect, especially with the internet culture nowadays. Did you ever see people hanging out being polite to others? When people are tired out they simply don't care for anyone else except for themselves and their friends/family/whatever. Most people, that is. The internet culture is that nothing you say or do online will have any real-life implications. Obviously this isn't true but most people act like it was.

So you're pontificating that your attack level is so high you practically never miss on someone around the same level as you? From my experience this is clearly not the case, even if your attack is quite a few levels higher than your opponent's defense. No, I thought it to be a pretty straightforward question. Wasn't the point of training Attack to improve your accuracy? What boggles my mind is that instead of answering the question I had asked, you made up another one, and then ridiculed yourself for asking it. Why? I never said my Attack level is so high I practically never miss. I can see why that would be easy to refute, since that's clearly not the case in my own experience as well. Maybe that's why I didn't say that. But if I ever do, then I guess I know the answer now. Furthermore, I didn't know this kind of extremism is where your goal for Runescape laid: A game where no one ever fails, especially in the beginning! If that was your true point all along, that somehow this game would be made better if we never ever missed our targets, then yes, quelmotz, you are right. My Attack level doesn't go that high. Oh, and if you really wish to talk about my rudeness, then maybe you should take a long look in the mirror, or maybe just review your own snide comments throughout this thread, because as a wise man two posts above me once said, "Your intelligence astounds me." This argument is dull and old now, and you have yet to make any case to the "benefits" of the update, which is a shame since you are the only one heartily defending it. It's still a useless, and mostly unnecessary update. I'm guessing you're just here trying to play devil's advocate, as it's the only way I can make sense of your arguments anymore. I'll let you get back to the pretend debate now. You're the one beating around the bush. Attack improves your accuracy, but wasn't that why your opponents trained their defense levels? To neutralise the accuracy you gained with your increased attack. So my point is it doesn't matter how high your attack level is, you'd still be hitting 0s roughly as much on a person of similar defense level as you. You seem to not be able to interpret sarcasm. Me saying that you're able to hit 100% of the time was sarcasm to emphasise my point. You (intentionally or not) took it and made a big fuss out of it. Since when did I talk about your rudeness? I've made my case countless times. It's too bad if you feel your rebuttals have neutralised them, because in my honest opinion, they have not.

Omali, I knew you were just being lazy when you didn't make a proper reply... :grin:

Ethics do exist in a MMO, but to a greatly lesser extent. Your examples of macroing/RWT/others are ridiculous. RWT affects people in real-life. Macroing gives players who abuse them a significant advantage over others, whereas the issue of crashing doesn't affect anyone significantly at all. If someone refuses to change worlds and chooses to compete with you, instead of wasting everyone's time with such threads, why not just change worlds yourself? You can't simply solve the issue of macroing without wasting incredible amounts of time, whereas switching a world doesn't take so much of your lifetime. Your argument about letting others dictate what you should do is crap. Where did you get your morals in the first place? Was it not your parents' influence? Aren't your parents influenced by laws? Don't your parents dictate that you should do such and such? You can argue that you should exercise your own judgment within the restrictions your parents' set up for you, but can't you do that within the restrictions of law? Your analogy is intentionally distorted to reflect your opinions. Let me distort the analogy so as to reflect mine. So you're in a store, crooning over a beautiful necklace. As you're admiring it, someone comes over and takes the necklace, pays for it and leaves the store. So what you're saying is it's ethically wrong for the person to do that? Realistically, how would he know you're not just window-shopping and can't really afford the necklace? Before you start arguing that "you" should have the necklace in your grasp, remember that there IS NO queue or first-come-first-serve-basis sign or indication of any sort reflecting that. So how can you depict the scene as "you" seeming to possess the necklace? And I wish you'd stop being a 5-star hypocrite. Putting yourself on a pedestal as if you were so morally upright and then verbally (or at least textually) abusing people, calling them "asshats" and whatever crap you've invented. Practice the respect you preach so much, please.

1. He DESERVES to live because he was lucky? What absurdity. 2. Oh, so the RNG for melee is distorted and gives it lots of huge hits? 3. Non-PvP meaning games like Clan Wars, Fist of Guthix, etc. As in non-PvP Worlds. 4.

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max). Potions/other equipment that raise constitution, weapons that lower max LP when you hit above X damage, etc. There are countless possibilities. Same thing could have happened for hp. Your intelligence astounds me. 110/99 is basically eating. But currently you can't eat above your limits, except a few hp using some special potions/foods I think. The LP/Constitution system allows food that boosts your LP max greatly over your limits, without affecting your constitution skill too much (which I think Jagex does not want).

This. If you don't want to get crashed, train more, get higher levels like herblore for extremes, or just simply raising your melee stats... For example, Bandos, crashing people makes you last longer, giving you more profit for what you spent in supplies, less food used, less effort.. Uh...I think the opposition isn't arguing about whether we have the RIGHT to, but whether we SHOULD. Pretty much presented reasons why you should... He means morally. People on the internet have morals? Precisely. That is why the proposition's (OP) notion must fall.

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max). Potions/other equipment that raise constitution, weapons that lower max LP when you hit above X damage, etc. There are countless possibilities.

Because I can go back to the time when this update wasn't here yet and test. OK! I think there are EXP rate calculation devices for before the update. Wait...I just realised! They haven't changed! -.- Yu-gi-oh cards don't have hp they have attack the player has lifepoints that start at 8000. But as the monsters have high attack and the player has higher hp you could say they are somewhat the same as runescapes lower hits and lower hp. Examples aren't always exactly perfect either. I'm not disputing that fact. I'm arguing about the RELEVANCE of your example. It's so far-fetched. The rest of the arguments would just go back any forth as they are opinions so I won't bother.

This. If you don't want to get crashed, train more, get higher levels like herblore for extremes, or just simply raising your melee stats... For example, Bandos, crashing people makes you last longer, giving you more profit for what you spent in supplies, less food used, less effort.. Uh...I think the opposition isn't arguing about whether we have the RIGHT to, but whether we SHOULD.

It'll still do 120% damage, and if by some fluke your opponent didn't eat it'll deal significant damage. They would be dead anywaysSo sure about that? You mean when someone drops below 25% health the RNG suddenly goes haywire and always gives you hits that will kill the enemy? Heard of people using DDP++/Dragon claws specials? Daggers are completely useless in terms of stats, and so are claws. Except claw specs are godly accurate and dds are more of a luck weapon tbhRuneScape is more of a luck game tbh. *cough*zamorakspeark*cough* Ever been speared in multi? Its really bs...I'm not a member but I know Zamorak Spear is a commonly used weapon in Castle Wars. The whole RS doesn't revolve around PvP only. Fine then. Clan War situations? Massive groups of enemies crowding around? -.- *Quelmotz realizes that barrage hits everything in a 3x3 square and realizes my point*The weapons could be used by F2P, my dear friend. Wow...very original indeed. The ability to smite people :oSo what does this "smite" do? Any requirements? Drawbacks? Very easy to randomly spout ideas, eh?

Uh...shouldn't this be in rants? You didn't exactly offer a suggestion, just stated the need for a solution. Anyway, I agree that smithing needs to be upgraded.

First off, your colour contrast was absolutely horrendous. Don't you have the common sense to use a light colour on a dark background? It'll still do 120% damage, and if by some fluke your opponent didn't eat it'll deal significant damage. Heard of people using DDP++/Dragon claws specials? Daggers are completely useless in terms of stats, and so are claws. *cough*zamorakspeark*cough* Fine then. Clan War situations? Massive groups of enemies crowding around? -.- Wow...very original indeed.

I'm not too sure about this, but don't bosses have higher defense and attack, making it harder for you to hit and easier for them to hit you? So you benefit more from the update. So you're pontificating that your attack level is so high you practically never miss on someone around the same level as you? From my experience this is clearly not the case, even if your attack is quite a few levels higher than your opponent's defense. 1. Uhh, with brews you can go into the thousands Yu-Gi-Oh cards only have health like 1001 and such? As far as I know their health and such go into multiple thousands. 2. Its far more straightforward having your level name and your health name different is more confusing by default. :ohnoes: Wow...it takes that much mental capacity to remember something simple like that... 3. So useless, except I would rather get hit less than hit more. (but thats an opinion :o) Some people prefer faster battles, so that neutralises you point. 4. So why would you make the numbers bigger? Its not helping anyone. If you can't stand the 0's in early levels then you will not last to level 20 as this game is pure grinding. It helps low levels get interested in the game. People grind to complete quests/to earn money. These two are huge motivators. Or bragging rights, which is also a significant source of motivation. Whereas at early levels of the game people fight monsters for the fun of it, and they might easily lose interest if they keep missing. 5. If i had a time machine I would. So the problem doesn't exist any more? Doesn't that just reinforce my point that it's just a streak of bad luck? 6. If it caused you to die and actually lose stuff you had to work for, yea. Although i have never played a game like what you mention. I doubt a bunch of hit splats caused you to die because you didn't eat or something. After all, the damage splats on you will show up on top when they come out. You can't provide facts for or against on an update like this. Because nothing changed gameplaywise as anyone can prove (since the better old system was replaced) except making the game look cooler to 10 year olds. You can. You didn't give any evidence that the experience rates decrease, nor did you actually bother to obtain background information about Yu-Gi-Oh before randomly throwing it in as an example.

It means that if you want people to treat you well then you should treat them well. Likewise, treat people like crap and they'll also treat you like crap. You legitimise crashing. That's ok br0mie. But don't come here crying in case you get crashed at a mining, woodcutting or combat spot. Why bring up the death row subject? Is this some kind of new godwin? You think I don't understand your anecdote? How stupid can people get? Have I ever posted a thread or even a post for that matter whining about getting crashed? If I get crashed I'll simply compete or just change worlds instead of wasting everyone's time by posting a thread on such a trivial issue. Why I bring up the death row subject as you call it is because it shows you how stupid the anecdote is in some situations, so you'll stop taking it like some almighty, divine rule or something.

Instead of saying that melee weapons are superior and mage and range are getting the leftovers, why not show how so? Back it up with evidence. Or better still, offer a suggestion as to how to improve. I've already gone to great lengths explaining the feasibility of making ash weapons/armor. If you think it's still stupid then I can't help it. How about you tell me HOW firemaking should be updated then? K Ash Club Stab - 1, slash -2, crush +46, strength +60 Speed 5, 1handed Requires level 50 attack and level 50 strength to use Uses: 2 magic ash or 4 demonic ash or 6 yew ash or 8 maple ash or 10 willow ash or 12 oak ash or 16 normal ash. Special Attack: "Die already!" - Does 150% damage to an opponent with less than 25% health. 60% of special bar. Otherwise does 120% damage. Ash Spear Stab +65, slash +2, crush +1, strength +47 Speed 4, 1handed Requires level 50 attack and level 50 strength to use Uses: 2 magic ash or 4 demonic ash or 6 yew ash or 8 maple ash or 10 willow ash or 12 oak ash or 16 normal ash. Special attack: Penetrating Thrust - Pierces an opponent, negating 25% of his armor's effect. Does extra 25% damage per extra square (length) the opponent occupies. Uses 50% bar. Stab +0, slash +77, crush +44, strength +69 Speed 3, 2handed Requires level 50 attack and level 50 strength to use Uses: 3 magic ash or 6 demonic ash or 9 yew ash or 12 maple ash or 15 willow ash or 18 oak ash or 24 normal ash. Special attack: Nature's Wrath - Stabs your sword deep into the ground, causing vines to appear and envelope your opponent, stunning him for 5 seconds, and binding for an additional 5 seconds after the stun. 75% normal damage. Uses 50% bar. Ash Javelin Stab +40, slash +1, crush +1, strength +40, ranged strength +45, ranged attack +47 Speed 5, 1handed Requires 50 ranged, 40 attack and strength to use. Uses: 2 magic ash or 4 demonic ash or 6 yew ash or 8 maple ash or 10 willow ash or 12 oak ash or 16 normal ash to smith 15 javelins. Special Attack: Unerring Accuracy - For the next five RANGED attacks you cannot miss. (you can still hit 0 because of strength though) Uses 65% of special bar. Ash Staff Stab +0, slash +0, crush +15, strength +10, magic +21 Speed 5, 1handed Requires 50 magic to uses Uses: 2 magic ash or 4 demonic ash or 6 yew ash or 8 maple ash or 10 willow ash or 12 oak ash or 16 normal ash. Special Attack: Hex - Your attack has 50% power and 75% accuracy, but it hits a 3x3 square instead of one target. Try flaming arrows and a new spellbook of FIRE! That's incredibly cliché. Overall the biggest fail is how Jesusly awesome specs the melee weapons have with such low requirements. Nice word (sarcasm). I'm not a Christian but I bet it's offensive to many Christians, just like OMG, OMFG and such are.

Load of opinionated crap. 1. Oh, the health system started to remotely resemble Yu-Gi-Oh (it doesn't even do so actually, Yu-Gi-Oh counts in thousands I think) so the game is evolving into Yu-Gi-Oh!!! 2. Constitution sounding stupid is a combination of your personal opinion and poor vocabulary. 3. You get hit way more, others also get hit way more. 4. You'll be surprised to find that plenty of teenagers have a very short attention span too. 5. You seem to be. Care to conduct an experiment to prove it? A short streak of bad luck doesn't immediately mean there's a bug. 6. That's purely opinion. Other games fill your whole screen with blood and gore when you kill someone. Isn't that worse? So in conclusion, what you've been saying is purely your personal opinion and has no factual evidence to say that the constitution update somehow hindered your gaming experience and as such is a bad update.

You realise you've just bumped a dying thread up again? Why not just let it DIE for god's sake, as you said on the first post of this page.

So? That's both a benefit and a disadvantage, although it's more beneficial for the lower levelled people than the higher levelled ones. I think that's his point, genius. He's saying it isn't a fair system. It's only so little more beneficial to lower levelled people. Don't higher levelled players fight boss monsters too? Don't your 0.1s and such become 1-9 and stuff and "add up" too? Don't you pile people of around the same level? From my experience in Clan Wars you'll hit quite a lot of 0s, so the update benefits you in this aspect too.

Qeltar - you're pathetic. You know you don't have a proper argument so you have to resort to calling people who "crash" asswipers, jerks, etc? T Launching personal attacks on people makes you a very respectful person. I really have to quote this. It thoroughly beats my last "The Epitome of Hypocrisy". ------------------------------ Respect is about moral obligations. We're not morally obligated to queue up for a MULTI-combat zone or in a Massively MULTIplayer Online Role-Playing Game for that matter, unless there is a rule stipulating a first-come-first-serve basis or something like that. Which there isn't. Don't do to others what you don't want done to yourself - What about you go tell that to murderers, robbers, thieves, conmen, etc, instead of wasting time lecturing us? They're committing crimes of actual consequence; we're simply wasting a few seconds of your life. Wait - you Americans are the ones pontificating about human rights, trying to abolish death sentences, etc. By your anecdote, the death sentence should stand since murderers should be murdered.

Instead of saying that melee weapons are superior and mage and range are getting the leftovers, why not show how so? Back it up with evidence. Or better still, offer a suggestion as to how to improve. I've already gone to great lengths explaining the feasibility of making ash weapons/armor. If you think it's still stupid then I can't help it. How about you tell me HOW firemaking should be updated then?