WolfieMario

A friend showed me to Seers and I did the first Elemental Workshop. Then I got 55 fletching on my first day and didn't bother training it again for a long while :rolleyes:

I read the whole thing, and that actually seems pretty interesting and effective. However, "It is a general technique that can be applied to any game in which the avatars movement is controlled by the players directly." It wouldn't apply to RS nearly as well, if at all. In RS, your avatar's movements aren't controlled directly by you (they can be, if you manually click each space you want to move and only move one step at a time...). The game uses its own built-in pathfinding to make you walk/run to a destination whenever you click the minimap, an object, or a space to walk to. You don't determine whether your character runs on the left or right side of the street; you don't choose whether or not they make zigzagging motions. The outcome of a bot clicking a green dragon will be exactly the same as the outcome of a player clicking a green dragon, assuming they are standing in the same spot. An equivalent of the Fig.1 graph (from the paper) for most botted activities in RuneScape would show you pretty much the exact same thing for bots and regular players. So sadly, although that detection scheme seems great and even works in practice (with Quake 2 as the case study), it would not be possible in RuneScape without some major gameplay changes :|

Not everything has to be sent to the server for processing. The client could have mouse motion tracking built in, and only bother to flag if the mouse moves in perfectly straight lines all the time. In fact, I had a friend who wrote his own bot a while back that didn't randomize its mouse movements, and it got banned a day later (on a throwaway account, that is; he only wrote the bot for fun). (Note to Tip.It mods: not encouraging botting; simply stating a fact; the friend who wrote the bot doesn't even bot anyways). And there's nothing too difficult in tracking mouse movements; I could set it up in Flash or Java without any effort. There's also nothing to consider it a form of spyware: you don't need to install any software on the user's computer to track their mouse movement, and you could only track movement when they're over your window (it wouldn't work if the window was minimized). Honestly, if you think mouse tracking in a game is spyware, you must think its spyware for a game to be able to tell what keys you're pressing - after all, that would be a keylogger, right? :roll: Anyways, yes, you're correct in saying that mousekeys hopping can't be differentiated from a bot doing mousekey hopping. However, mousekeys can't teleport your cursor to exactly the right location; you can only move in increments in the four cardinal and four diagonal directions, so it's still not entirely impossible to differentiate it (though you would still be able to confuse botters and people using touchscreens, which brings a new argument: if RS on iPad does ever become commonplace, will innocent people get banned? That is, assuming Jagex does any bot detection anymore at all, of course).

What if Jagex made replicas of several heavily-botted locations, and anybody spending an extensive time there doing the same activity (even if they clearly aren't botting) would be sent to the replica? Common bank routes, of course, would also be replicated. However, the replica world could be left by going to a location that does not exist on the replica (e.g. basements and top floors of various buildings), or moving on to a significantly different task (e.g. going from woodcutting to fishing). There would be no animation or transition for being sent to the replica, you just wind up there, and the only real indication is that suddenly the players around you have changed (and of course there would still be a "Loading... Please wait", but that's unavoidable). There would be no direct punishment for being in the replica, as it's bound to trap many real players, since Jagex's system obviously can't tell for crap who's real or not. However, a botting report would have higher priority against people in the replica, and moderators' bot sweeps would occur in the replica world. In addition, the replica world would have many player spoof NPCs which also engage in commonly botted activities - they would clearly be NPCs, but they could still kill steal or chop a tree down before you. Obviously this wouldn't stop botting, and it could be a disadvantage to players who like camping. But even if its hindrance to botters would not be that great, it would greatly free up many other crowded locations. In addition, this could stop people from complaining about "I like cheap resources and don't want bots to go away," since it really only serves to put bots behind-the-scenes. Solving the problem? Far from it, but that's why this is only a hypothetical random idea I came up with. Comments? Also in the vein of botters, what if Jagex made a minigame where you literally hunted bots, trapping them with items such as a "rubber chinchompa" to confuse hunter bots, or placing "damp logs" in the path of firemakers, or two players getting into a "green dragon costume" to throw off the dragon bots? Pretty much every heavily botted activity could have its own method of screwing with botters, and each method would have a variety of effects. For example, if your hunter trap catches a fake chinchompa, taking it may just put it in your inventory (wasting space), give you a message in your chatbox saying that it will release all held chinchompas if you click it again, stick to you (taking up an equip slot and making you unable to train hunter, and only being removable after clicking a confirmation message), or spawn a random. Each method of screwing with bots would change each month, though the items the players use would remain the same. To reduce the amount of possible griefing, any player who is confronted with bot tests and does not fall for them will eventually be unaffected by them (for the duration of one day). In addition, ideally this minigame would occur in the "replica world" I mentioned above - this would also mean that the player-spoof NPCs could still allow people to play the minigame even if all the bots in the area have been patched to avoid falling for the tricks (which, as I mentioned, would change each month). Players wishing to play the minigame would choose where they want to hunt botters, be given the relevant items, and be sent to that area, with a button to return to the minigame's starting area. The minigame would have rewards that range from decent to very generous, based on how many bots fall for the tricks. However, although you gain points for tricking bots, you could lose points for griefing players (if someone actually says something like "gtfo noob" in response to your actions, the game would make a note of things like that (no, the game wouldn't understand what the player said, but it would look for keywords. Eventually, once the bot makers figure this out, they may get the bots to automatically say lines like this, but if the line they say is overused and exactly the same as the line used by a thousand other "players", the system would pick up on that)). Suspected bot accounts would also have a "score" based on how many bot tricks they fall for, or how many specific things they say exactly the same way as other players do in response to certain actions. Having a higher suspect score will make reports against them higher priority, and a high enough level would be automatic punishment. Yeah, probably too detailed for a "what if?", and also never going to be implemented, and also not likely to succeed. But I was just interested in the concept :P

AI already plays games better than humans. A bot can't reply dynamically to questions, nor can it think on its own. Dragons don't riddle their prey. Mr. Mordaut begs to differ. ;D That's going in my signature :XD: EDIT: Damn, the forum won't let me do that. Oh well, still a funny post :P

Everyone who has been playing for atleast 5 years has the opportunity to get the cape, so they haven't really taken anything away from anyone. The fact that the capes require membership is nothing unusual, and there is no logical explanation behind them being free to play(jagex makes updates for paying members, so this is nothing new). If anything, this just gives free players more reason to finally enjoy the full version of the game, which is a good thing(and yeah, nor i or jagex think free players deserve anything more than to be able to play a large part of the game for free, not a big ask, really, i actually have to pay for these updates). I think I'm sort of in an odd position here - I've played RS for at least 5 years, but my 5 year accounts are f2p, and my current main is not near 5 years yet. I would have liked to at least try the cape and emote on my f2p accounts (lets face it, the only real values of the cape are cosmetic and showing you've played a while). Like hell am I going to get members on an account I don't play on just to try the cape myself, but I do certainly have an active p2p main. I don't know if I'll even be playing anymore by the time my current main hits 5 years, so it would have still been nice to be able to say that I own a veteran's cape.

They'd still have to be careful - copyright and patent aren't the same thing. Copyright means that it's only a violation if they literally copied its code (in whole or in part). But patents are rights to the idea/concept. If Blizzard does indeed have software patents on the idea (which would make sense for a multiplayer game company to do - it weakens the competition by getting rid of opponent companies' options), then Jagex's only options would be to legally request permission and likely pay a large fee, or just do it anyways and hope Blizzard doesn't notice and doesn't sue them. I doubt Jagex would do that - they've already prided themselves so damned hard on "no downloads needed to play!" and "best browser mmo". Sure, lots of benefits would come with making the game downloadable, but Jagex has been pretty adamant in saying they never intend for downloads to become necessary to play the game. Unless they change that business model, it's not possible for them to scan what's running on your computer. Well, if they did do something like what Blizzard did, they would play it off as an "enhancement" of their existing system. In the process, they would also somehow try to make it seem infinitely more foolproof than their existing system, managing to disappoint players even more. Well, "most of the people botting" is a bit debatable. There is still a huge rwt market, and where do you think a lot of their cash comes from? Also, even kids with short attention spans can use Google. "Working bot that can bypass [Jagex's version of Warden]! Jagex has never caught it; their system's completely blind to it! Buy now for only [whatever price people pay for these things]!" You don't have to be a tech wiz to download the bot that already has bypassing methods incorporated in it. And even if some things (like having a truly different environment) would be too much effort to implement on a bot in and of itself, don't you think a tutorial video on how to macro via a virtual machine would suffice? Even for the kids with short attention spans who paid for their bot before learning that it's not as simple to set up as the push of a button. Would there first be a massive crash in the amounts of botters? Of course. But things would stabilize after a while and we'll be back to square one again. He wasn't asking if those reasons make you happy to keep playing with the current state of the game. He was asking if that answers your question, "Why doesn't Jagex incorporate this to stop bots?" :-P

At any rate, you've hit 10 views as of just now. @sees_all1: Runetrack's actually a pretty well-known and often used stat tracker.

Ahem. It's 10 views, not clicks...

Well, you should realize that they do patch many things before they happen. I brought that up in a previous post. For example, the developer's blog of Summoning said that it's a lot of work creating a new skill, because they have to do ludicrous amounts of testing for ways the new content can be glitched, providing the example that one tester managed to summon several familiars at once. They do have bug testers before updates are released; if that weren't the case the game would be more chaotic than you'd believe. As a programmer, I can tell you, I have found many glitches in my own programs, some of which were amusing, and others of which were rather dangerous, abusable, or utterly destructive (yay five minute system freeze and browser crash :rolleyes:), before I even got halfway through finishing the coding stage. You start finding bugs long before you move on to bug-testing; that's just the nature of programming. Trust me, if they literally never compiled the game a single time before releasing the update, you'd be left with something entirely unplayable. Of course, there are failures where testing was clearly not done, but these usually tend to be the emergency patches to correct other bugs that crop up. That's why we had the stupid mistake that multiplied runecrafting xp to ludicrous quantities in Daemonheim. Stuff like that is entirely the fault of the person who did the patch - "emergency" or not, testing is a must. Especially considering, oftentimes, attempting to patch a bug will inadvertently create a new one, as the patch itself can be flawed - this is why programming takes time. Now, which version of the BA blood rune smuggle are you referring to? As I've read, there have been countless versions of the smuggle, many created inadvertently by new, entirely unrelated updates. If there's fifty ways to cause a problem, and you quash 40 of them before you even release the update, there's still 10 ways to cause the problem (which in this case you don't know about). Not to mention that smuggling glitches in particular are often "reborn" countless times: new ways to pull it off can come with any update. That's why they never stopped players smuggling from Daemonheim - they stop it a dozen times, but people keep finding new ways to pull it off. It's a rather ridiculous (though amusing) demand for quality assurance to play Barbarian Assault every time there's an update. Players, however, are much more likely to find the bugs, not only by sheer virtue of numbers, but because they aren't on a tight schedule (well, in the sense that you can spend much more time dungeoneering than Jagex can; nobody's really waiting for you. And even if you in particular don't have the time, someone definitely does), and also because players can experience old and new content side-by-side. To ask the QA team to re-test all old content when anything new comes out would mean that updates would grind to a standstill simply due to the massive amounts of testing. Sure, for a new game, that model doesn't sound so tough - until you've created your 50th quest and have to make sure there's no way it can screw with any of the other quests or minigames. In any combination. See now why I say it is literally impossible to guarantee a game like this has no bugs? Well, there is some point to this. It's true that, if all people magically could be trusted to not abuse bugs, programmers would get a lot lazier. This doesn't only apply to Jagex though - it places responsibility on any programmer to make sure the program actually works and doesn't break. I never said there wasn't responsibility on Jagex for making sure the code's good, and indeed, bug abusers are the ones that create some of the responsibility on the programmers' and QA teams' shoulders. But not all of the responsibility for the consequences of a bug belong on those shoulders, of course. I'm not sure what to say about your analogy (lawyer = bug abuser; bug = criminal; police = programmers), though I guess it works a bit for your argument. I tried a police analogy before, but mine regarded the bug abuser (in this case, bug abuse only being the sort that harms other players or is otherwise used for personal gain) as the criminal, and the bug as the crime. Jagex and their programmers were still the police, of course. Still not a perfect analogy, but I was just saying that we don't usually blame the police for the crime, we usually blame the criminal more for it. Of course there are always cases where people say "where were the police?" and "why couldn't they stop it before it was too late?". And sometimes those cases are justified. But in Jagex's case, they are invariably blamed for the bug abuse - not just the bug itself, but the outcome of its abuse - and some people forget to vent nearly as much at the abusing players (of course "abusers" get ranted at even when a glitch was accidentally abusable - people suggested that anyone who so much as crafted a single rune in Daemonheim after the RC glitch deserved to be banned, so it shows we've got radicals on both sides of the coin. I guess plenty RS players just like to be unfair :roll:). Now sure, a lot of this can be chalked up to the fact that police usually don't "create" crimes due to their negligence; this is why I say the analogy is far from perfect. But the main point of my analogy was that it's Jagex's job to not have glitches in their game, and the police's job to prevent crimes from being committed. Most police get respected (in general - your mileage may vary a lot based on where you live!) for the good they do, rather than shunned for the bad they fail to prevent. But Jagex is invariably condemned for every bad they fail to prevent, and the good they do is often forgotten in the sight of the bad they couldn't stop. Once again, I know that programming a game and risking your life are hardly comparable at all - so I hope nobody takes my analogy too literally. They key point is that it is impossible for the police to prevent all crimes, just as it is impossible for Jagex to prevent all bugs. Whether or not one means a lot more than the other is irrelevant - it still means people are demanding the impossible from Jagex. Alright, now I feel like I've been repeating myself for no good reason, so I think it's about time I stop, lol :razz: :roll:

Yeah, it's definitely true that people are more than too harsh on Jagex some time, as though they were the scapegoat for all the game's troubles. Though it's honestly quite disgusting when people say, in the same post (as I've seen now and then) stuff along the lines of "Jagex is [expletive] for failing to control the bots. What the [bleep] are they doing, they don't know how to run their game" and "the bots at least help players by making resources cheaper and doing tasks nobody wants to". In the same post. It's like people who blame the US government for illegal immigration levels, but then defend the illegal immigrants because they're "helpful" and do jobs most people wouldn't (at least not for that cheap). That's just textbook hypocrisy. Slightly more on-topic, whenever you look at comments on a glitching team's videos, you tend to see their fans say "Lol u pwned idiot Jagex they don't know what they're doing. U guys are great", even on videos where glitches are used for clear abuse (e.g. teleporting out of a duel against an unsuspecting player). They condemn Jagex for having glitches, and commend the people who abuse them. I thought, if people didn't abuse glitches, then they wouldn't be a problem to begin with. Sadly, this sort of mentality permeates so much of the RS community - people complain when they don't get enough freedom in the game, but then fail to acknowledge that freedom's price. That's why you always see rant topics crop up on RSOF when a glitch comes out and is abused - by far, people actually blame Jagex more than the abusers. Sometimes it's not even bug abuse - there are many cases of spoiled people who like to throw all personal responsibility on Jagex regardless of how unreasonable it is. That's why you get topics like "omg some *** scammed me out of my dfs wtf Jagex... That's no fair I want it back or Im quitting this suckish game. U can;'t let ppl take ur stuff that easily". Idiots post topics like that even after features such as item lending and price checking were made; it's like anything that makes you unhappy in the game is Jagex's fault. And some people really do seem like they're arguing this - even if they won't say it, they come pretty close. After all, it's Jagex's job to make sure all of their players are happy, right? Sorry for the rant, but as much as Jagex has recently done some stupid decisions, it seems like the rants against them have gotten stupider. At this point, it seems nothing Jagex can do is right, not because "they've ****ed up the game so much", but because nobody will accept anything from them at this point. Personal responsibility and blame are entirely gone from the player community, and all problems are inherently the fault of the company. It's making the game feel like freakin' politics. I mean, even a friend of mine has denounced perfectly legitimate statements made by Jagex as utter [cabbage], however innocent the public statements may have been. My friend's not stupid; he doesn't blindly follow crowds, but even he's started to use unreasonable claims to make Jagex seem worse than they are (not publicly that is; I mean in personal conversation). At this point, it's like hating Jagex is a meme. "Meme"'s not the right word exactly, but that's exactly what it's like. It reminds me of how people say Rebecca Black should die in some horrible way or otherwise be subject to torture, and compare the song "Friday" tantamount to torture in itself. Sure, it's got crappy lyrics, and Black's voice is ludicrously auto-tuned and doesn't sound good. But when you see the things people post on that video, or even simply on the subject, it's not a natural sort of deserved hate. It's as though people greatly enjoy joining in on a flood of hatred. It's like a twist on the bystander effect, in the sense that people feel less responsible for their own actions, but the apathy is replaced instead with rage; you've basically got the lynching mob of the internet. Nobody who says something nasty about Rebecca Black ever considers themself a bully for doing it. Likewise, it seems, nobody feels like they have to be reasonable when talking about any controversy pertinent to Jagex. Jagex, to many players, is automatically in the wrong regardless of what they do. They have to please everybody simultaneously - which is honestly more impossible than quashing all the glitches in any game ever made. I mean, please one person, and someone else will rant - if an update doesn't benefit one group of players, even though it may have no bad effect on them either, it is worthless and horrible to them. And while there are many such groups with their own things to rant about, what never seems to change is that they can all agree to rant about Jagex. Honestly, if anything will get me to quit this game more than the bugs, macros, and Jagex's controversy handling flops, it's the general negative and unreasonable attitude that now permeates so many players. Sure, people have always hated Jagex, but not like this... Newb's post shows it's possible for a player community to coexist peacefully with the game's creators and not blame them for everything under the sun. I'm betting Jagex and its representatives were once generally liked by the players, or there's no way the game could have grown as popular as it has. But nowadays, it's okay for people to blame Jagex for whatever they like. Find a glitch? Abuse as much as you like, it's entirely their fault. Don't think I'm placing any sort of unreasonable blame on players. Clicking a penguin twice can be a legitimate accident. Clicking it half a thousand times is not, and does not entail you to rant when you are banned for bug abuse. Jagex employees may have goofed up, and should be held somewhat responsible, but they do not become the sponge that absolves all players of their own responsibility. [/rant] :mellow:

He has a link to his bugabuse guide in the original video and on his channel. Probably the reason he faked it was to get people to go to it so he could keylog them. Really? The original video (the one which was removed) had no links to downloads. And his real channel, Svewthehax, has no such link. Perhaps you're confusing Svew's real channel with one of the many impersonators? To the best of my knowledge, SvewAbuse and other such channels were created by impersonators, not Svew or anyone associated with him. Please provide links; I've seen many people steal Svew's video and other videos like it, wrapping it with "Jagex is gonna regret removing my vid... Now I'm leaking the bug to everyone!" and providing download links for keyloggers. You want Cheeze to provide you with the links to a keylogger? Wait what.... :unsure: Er, I meant links to the YouTube video and channel that he says have the link to a keylogger. Not that I'd have any way of guaranteeing the channel doesn't belong to Svew, but it's still fairly obvious when a scammer creates multiple accounts to leave fake comments on their videos/channel to make themselves seem legit (mainly by checking the accounts that leave comments, because it's rather suspicious to have almost all your comments coming from new or hidden channels). But yeah, I should have been more clear about which links I wanted :oops: :roll:

Well, I had just watched the video Ring_World now posted, but I found it before he posted it. Anyways, watch it. If there's truth to the story it tells, they were intentionally causing the glitch after discovering it, and it wasn't something you could do on accident. They were pretty much DDoSing the servers, by bypassing the game's protection against such attacks. That's right - they basically DDoS'd the game itself. To sum it up, the quote about bytes/second was referring to the strain they could put on the server. Normally, if a single player placed too much strain on the server, it would automatically disconnect them to protect the server. They bypassed that protection, allowing them to put enough strain on the server in a concentrated attack and crash it. Apparently the servers simply aren't built to handle that much strain from an individual player. Jagex's only mistake is in not successfully detecting these abusers' excessive strain on the world. They say they bypassed the "wall" that disconnects a player when they produce over 50k of input. The abusers were able to put enough input on the world to crash it because Jagex's protection wasn't foolproof and they got by the "wall". Nobody knows the details of the "change" Jagex made that made this attack possible, because apparently it was patched in the past. The abusers never reveal how they bypass the wall. It isn't as simple as clicking on a certain item, or anything else an innocent player would normally do. They proclaim themselves to be a professional glitching team, and they did the crashes for the lulz. What more proof do you need that they should be blamed for the server crashes? (Assuming their story is true, that is) Every game will have its bugs - programmers aren't gods. I can tell you as a programmer myself - making a program entirely impregnable to abuses of any sort is basically impossible (at least, with sufficiently complicated programs). There's no way to guarantee your game is bug-free; even hiring a million testers doesn't guarantee a thing. Not to mention the fact that a slight change in one place can break working code somewhere else, usually in such a minor way you wouldn't have guessed it. Not to mention that Jagex is a company, and not every programmer knows the ins and outs of the entire game. Sure, there are some bugs we can obviously blame Jagex for - the ones that even basic testing would have found that are related to the content of an update. But a bug like this was likely caused by some minor change and Jagex hasn't got the time to make sure that literally every facet of the game still works purely as intended. As I said, you can't guarantee something is bug-proof. We don't know of the thousands of bugs that have been stopped before they appeared in-game, since Jagex has no need to tell us that info. Don't assume the only bugs that come with an update are the ones we know about - there have likely been many more bugs they did stop. It's not as though they know where to find all the bugs, or even how many bugs may have been created by one change. Not to mention there are several "professional" glitching teams who look for exploits like these, and I'm betting even all the glitching teams alone would outnumber Jagex's bug testers, and casual players also do a good job at finding many bugs. When players abuse a bug like this, it's not Jagex's fault, unless you want to argue that every case of successful crime is the police's fault for not having enough security measures to catch it.

http://sites.google.com/site/interactiverune My website displaying my RuneScape screenshot fakes. The homepage is currently incomplete, however, so see the pages of interest instead: Over 100 "lesser" fakes of mine Gallery of fakes I've dedicated entire topics to Fake kits to help you make your own fakes RuneScape fonts to help with making fakes and videos

He has a link to his bugabuse guide in the original video and on his channel. Probably the reason he faked it was to get people to go to it so he could keylog them. Really? The original video (the one which was removed) had no links to downloads. And his real channel, Svewthehax, has no such link. Perhaps you're confusing Svew's real channel with one of the many impersonators? To the best of my knowledge, SvewAbuse and other such channels were created by impersonators, not Svew or anyone associated with him. Please provide links; I've seen many people steal Svew's video and other videos like it, wrapping it with "Jagex is gonna regret removing my vid... Now I'm leaking the bug to everyone!" and providing download links for keyloggers.

Well, I'm not entirely sure the coin examine proves its fakeness (I believe the video's fake, but not because of the examine). The examine changes based on how many coins you have. If you don't have enough, it will just say "Lovely money!", but past a certain amount it will say "[Amount] x coins.". However, since -2 isn't within the specified range for "Lovely money!", it would try the other examine. It's possible that since -2 is below the number that normally uses that examine, it doesn't try to get the item quantity, leaving a blank for the quantity, resulting in " x coins.". Again, this is just a theory, but knowing programming, it isn't at all that unlikely. Also, he originally filmed it with a screen recorder, but people complained that it could be edited that way, so he filmed again with a camera (not that that prevents it from being edited). And where on RuneScape's site can you download software to film? Please point me to that download, because I've never heard of Jagex providing a screen recorder. Also, Svew never told anyone to go to any websites. Svew and crew did it for the "glory" and the views, not to hack accounts. It was other people who stole Svew's vid and claimed they had guides on how to do it (and their links lead to keyloggers). But stealing accounts wasn't the reason the video was originally made :roll:

Blizzard CM mods know about the game though. :thumbdown: Stop making excuses for Jagex's failures, its embarrassing. Well I'm sure WoW CM mods are also paid to know. It's no excuse (they could easily ask someone who knows) but it's understandable that a customer service rep doesn't know all of the ins and outs of the coding of the game client. Then maybe Jagex should set up a private "knowledge base" for employees only, so the CM people could at least look things up (e.g. whether or not an upcoming update is planned, what they are/aren't allowed to leak, what little-known or debug items may exist, and what codes exist for developers) before spreading misinformation. Think about it - if the CM people at least knew about these things, they could report potential problems much sooner. Making the CM team ignorant of the game means that it takes longer for the managers and coders to learn that players have found some sort of exploit. If they could at least pull a search in their private database and see, "oh, this person's not bsing", they would realize someone has to be notified of the problem. If that mod isn't intentionally lying and really doesn't know, then it still makes Jagex look like jerks, and it also means problems take longer to resolve within their company.

God, sometimes I really hate how Jagex handles situations like this... Actually, they seem awful and dishonest at handling all situations. They expect us to trust them when they say "nobody earned an obscene amount of money off the climbing boots change" or "the infinite gold bug is definitely fake", but they also think they can get away with blatant lies? When they do crap like that, I become less and less sure of anything else they've said in the past. I mean, has the Jagex PR team even heard of "credibility" and how to maintain it? :wall:

Isn't that sort of angle perfectly possible with the Orb of Oculus from Faruq? I know upwards angles like that can be tricky and take a little button mashing of the up and down arrow keys, but I've had similar angles with the OoO before.

That's not the java client that deals with the RuneScape server. What Jagex calls the "client" is in fact merely the application that you get when you download their "Windows Client". It's basically a watered-down Internet Explorer without any toolbars or anything, and can view anything on runescape.com. However, it doesn't come with the actual RuneScape client that has to be modified to pull off the developer's console hack shown in this video. They already have said this. (Source) why would you decompile if the source is available as a small tarball? The small tarball they provide isn't the actual client that needs to be hacked to pull off this trick. I extracted it, and the tarball doesn't contain the game client - it's a client for accessing the website and playing without having Java installed. It does not contain the client that we think of when someone says "hacked RuneScape client", and hacking it can't accomplish much. So yes, you'd have to decompile the bytecode of the real client, and as I pointed out above, it sadly seems like it would be considered a TOS violation.

If it weren't banable (TOS violation from modifying the client), then I would so do this. Hell, I'd use the no-npcs and ortho zoom out commands to construct an epically detailed map of Gielinor's overworld (...Ignoring how long that would take). I actually wish they'd open at least the ortho commands to player use, since we already have the Orb of Oculus so it's not like this would be unfair. I work in 3D graphics and use ortho view a lot when modeling, so seeing RS in orthographic view was pretty awesome for me :P

The names do not need to be faked. After you switch the model values using CE and pull up items kept on death, all the text, even the examines and right click menus, switch to what the new model is. Wow, I didn't imagine Cheatengine could take care of things so perfectly :blink:

@Salad: If I recall, he only withdrew 2 piles of 2000M. If Svew did glitch and had -2 gp (which some people have claimed possible), and the game let him withdraw from a -2 gp pile, then in theory he could withdraw up to two max cash piles from the -2 gp before it's depleted. However, under that theory, the -2 gp would go down to lower negatives until it hit -2,147,483,648, and then wrap around back to regular positive cash (starting with a max cashpile after withdrawing a single gp from the big negative pile). That's simply how integers in Java work, and that's what Jagex uses. If Svew used Cheatengine, it's entirely possible that he did have a legit -2gp pile, but also had Cheatengine make the pile look like it stayed -2gp. That means that to us it looks like infinite cash, because he withdrew 4000M from the pile without it changing at all. In reality though, it would have changed, and without Cheatengine on, we'd see it go first from -2 to -2000M (really -2,000,000,002gp) at the first withdrawal, and then from -2000M to 294M (294,967,294gp) when the second withdrawal was made. So now my theory is that Svew combined a real glitch with Cheatengine to produce a result neither alone could do. The 1000 Santa hats, as Alphanos mentioned, would have been infeasible based on when he said he found the glitch - in reality that would be one santa hat (or maybe a few more), Cheatengine'd to seem like they're much more. There was probably also only one of each partyhat and whatever other rares we saw in the vid. I recall someone mentioning that Svew and crew are incredibly rich from staking, so it's entirely possible that Svew and some friends pooled wealth into the account to make this vid possible. Notice that this didn't happen before free trade came back - to make the glitch, Svew had to have a lot of capital that could be transferred to a placeholder account. If they really did have billions, then this would make it entirely possible. I'm betting the glitch they used was, as some people here mentioned is possible, an overflow that allowed a cashpile to rollover into the negatives. By combining two maxed piles, you would have exactly -2gp. That would explain why 4000M could be withdrawn from it as well. The glitch isn't infinite cash and didn't generate any money to begin with. Another possibility, if it seems too outlandish for Svew and his friends to pile one of every rare onto that account (plus several real blue phats) is that some of the rares weren't really rares. There has been someone showing off a client-side hack that swaps models, creating the illusion that people are wearing fake/unreleased items, and also faking the inventory icons. Basically it replaces one item, visually, with another. Thus, for all we know, all the rares, even the blue party hats, could have been other, meaningless items (e.g. the blue phats could have been swapped from tiaras or any other head item). I'm not sure, but can Cheatengine change string values? If so, the names of the items could have also been faked using Cheatengine (or any similar program), meaning that we'd have no way of telling that they're fake. tl;dr Cheatengine made the pile look like it stayed -2gp. No money was created, and at least 4,000,000,001gp had to be used to pull this trick off. The blue partyhats (including the one he wears) and other rares in the bank were really other items, but the models were swapped with a client-side cache editor, and cheatengine changed their names and amounts. The 4000M you saw was real, but the green phat wasn't necessarily real. The guy who gave the phat was in on it. ...At least, that's what I believe now. EDIT: Btw I didn't see Alphanos's post above until I posted this. Alphanos, your theory also makes sense. If it turns out Cheatengine can't swap models (and bank/inv icons are models), though, it doesn't matter because other client-side hacks definitely have.

What stops him from recording a video without compression, editing it, and rendering an uncompressed AVI of the edit? Then he/she can just record it with a camera while the edited vid plays fullscreen. There's no real difficulty in that :P Also, if it was a real buffer overflow, wouldn't it become −2,147,483,648? That's 1 gp higher than 2,147,483,647, the max pile limit. -2 gp through overflow could only occur from somehow combining two full max cash piles. Maybe that's what they were getting at by using -2? But then, if RS even let you withdraw from a negative pile, it wouldn't magically stay -2. It would let them keep withdrawing until it hit −2,147,483,648, at which point it would wrap back to 2,147,483,647. So no money would have been created, and storing 2gp or more would destroy their 4b :P At any rate, it's been proven fake so these points are moot. But can I see where it was confirmed fake (besides Jagex mods' claims)? At any rate, if it were real, then the effect on the economy could be neutralized... :rolleyes:

You're either trolling or you work for Jagex :-|