_Douglas

Ring of vigour may be useful to you depending on what spec weapons you want to use.

I think a part of this issue may be remnants of the outdated EP system lingering in peoples' minds, where it was quite possible to kill someone wearing nothing and get millions of gp if they happened to be risking. Another part is that, let's face it, it's fun to kill people and being lightly armed makes you a great no-risk target for their entertainment. Not to mention that they may just kill you to see what you were carrying, perhaps you accidentally withdrew 50m from your bank before you left and you didn't realize it etc. To fix this, it's pretty simple, PK these guys for yourself. You know they are going to show up there at some point, and you know that they're not expecting much in the way of resistance from the agility trainers they're targeting. Get them to underestimate you, slap on the torva and claws them to death. Okay okay okay, not torva, but your regular p2p pk gear setup lol. Consider putting some of it in your inventory so that you look like a simple agility trainer rather than a trained, educated individual who's about to murder them for their ahrims and karil's.

There were 31 topics started on tip.it Clan Discussions forum from January 1st 2010 through today which have reached 4 pages or more. Yes, I counted, and yeah that currently goes back to page 13 of the board listings. Over the span of more than a year, that's pretty atrocious. Anyway, you read into my statement what you wanted to hear. Of course we are talking about the current state of tip.it; to look far back is great for nostalgia purposes but we live in the present and must plan for the future. You're actually confirming what he was implying and what I'm saying with your response that "barely 2 pages isn't active sorry". Sadly, the thread he posted that on is the most popular thread on this Clan Discussion board since Monday when it was posted. The best activity tip.it CD has had this week was in that thread, and the best activity tip.it CD has had all year has been for the most part in threads much the same length, ~ 2 to 3 pages. Tip.it was - and can be - more active, but right now it is not, and that's what is being said. I know you don't care about TWR, you've made it plenty clear that you'd rather toss it away as outdated rather than work to update and improve it. But what you need to understand is that TWR is the main reason for clans to come here rather than RSC. Tip.it doesn't have the luxury of being the 'popular' place at the moment and so clans aren't going to come strolling in on their own; you need a lure to catch these fish, and with some modifications, the TWR is the perfect bait. I think you'll find that those clans you mentioned are still getting plenty of wars/action each week, it's just not getting posted for TWR. That's a problem with TWR not with those clans - it means something changed and that the TWR is no longer reflecting what's going on. Talking to clan leaders to try and get them to declare for TWR more may be a starting point but to expect that to actually change anything in the long term isn't realistic. If TWR is at the point where they have nothing to lose as you so claim, then they have nothing to lose by changing how they do things either. TWR officials: http://forum.tip.it/topic/284633-tipit-and-twr-need-a-jump-start/

Whoa nice job.

My post was not positive nor was it negative; it was and is the honest truth. With the exception of the TWR 'jump start' suggestions thread, (which reached a whopping four pages), there aren't any recent topics which have gathered more than two pages. You have to go back to when the Wildy was announced and when the Clan Awards results were posted to get any topics longer than three pages. Take a look for yourself: http://forum.tip.it/forum/158-clans/ I'm not blindly defending my allies, I'm defending adrian because what he's saying is right. We're not saying that tip.it has never been active, we're saying that in recent times it has not been active. I /was/ around when tip.it was active, and so were many of those people who are still active here. I post more now instead of just lurking; that's why you see me a lot more than you'd like, I'm sure. :P As for the TWR, in this topic you state that you're against change of any sort and would rather dispose of the system altogether. Allow me to quote you: Removing clans from the TWR will not help as it's not the clans that need to change, it's the TWR itself that needs to change. The clans are actively warring each other, they just have not been declaring for TWR for certain reasons and that needs to be addressed. If it were just a few clans that were ignoring the TWR, then I think you'd have merit to start taking action against clans, but when you're looking to kick 80% of your memberbase for inactivity then there's likely a problem with the system. Not to mention you may agitate those clans' leaderships who have been kicked and since tip.it isn't the biggest fish in the pond at the moment those clans may see tip.it as expendable if they are unhappy with how they are handled. Not exactly a recipe for good things. In the end, one of the multiple suggestions found in this thread need to be adopted by the TWR staff. No ranking system will be perfect, but having an appealing TWR list may very well lead to an increase in activity for all of tip.it. RSC does not provide a list anymore, and so the door is wide open. Step over the threshold. As far as top clans go, their activity is no doubt welcomed by the tip.it community (and thus they should be represented in the new TWR system :wink: ) but as far as "just posting on topics concerning you or your allies", I think I'm in 1st to post so I should be okay posting here right? :roll:

I don't see how it's ironic. Are you implying that 2 pages is the best activity tip.it has had? (In the clanning section) I would go so far as to directly state that. Yes.

It's been a while. Any news on this issue from the TWR representatives?

\:D/

Those of you afraid of being backstabbed, join a clan. A real, proper clan, not just some random chat channel. You'll find that they likely won't backstab you unless you personally do something stupid. Those of you who feel like soloing, good luck but there's no reason why it has to be single for you to solo an npc that's the strength of a revenant. Are you afraid of the added danger of multicombat? This is a mmorpg, it's meant to be played with other people such as friends and your clan. Bring them with you for revenants just as you would for a GWD boss. I can't imagine that brawlers/effigies would be common drops so I really don't see the problem with lootsharing them. And finally, Jagex, thank you for finally getting around to putting something worth going to in the wilderness, besides clues, that's actually IN the wilderness. That's been overdue since the chaos elemental became outdated. :)

Yes, assuming they don't make the Duel Arena p2p-only again. And even if they don't technically 'let' you in the code, the loser could always just trade whatever was on stake to the victor in a trade screen anyway. So I don't see why they would limit that functionality for F2P. I have heard that it's better XP at swordies than at lobbies. I believe the ratio of swordies to tuna is the same at any level, but I could be wrong. But of course, as far as I know, the fastest XP is fly fishing at barbarian village so you may want to consider that. As far as cooking goes, tuna give 100xp but lobsters give a little more than that, and swordfish give a little more xp than lobbies.

You know, not every person out in the wilderness is going to be a raging foaming-at-the-mouth lunatic. There's nothing stopping you and your penguin team from defending the area and securing the penguin for yourselves. However, once people learn to only take 3 items ( or 4+protect item) of value, it won't really mean much difference considering you don't require any items to spy on a penguin. Even if the penguin were defended by a group of pkers, as long as you get within line of sight and click on the penguin once, you're done and finished with that portion of the D&D anyway. Don't forget that if they kill you, and you only have 3 items on you, they don't actually get any drop (unlike in the pvp era) so it's a waste of their time to attack you. To be honest, the only really useful part of the penguin D&D to pkers will probably only be to catch the guy who was too lazy to bank his items. Even then, it'll probably be the penguin hunters who turn on each other in that case.

I take this post of yours as a concession of all of your points. Your obstructionist agenda has shown its true colors here. I don't think I have any need to discuss this much further with you, as it ought to be quite obvious to the tip.it leadership as to which of us has the best interests of tip.it and TWR at heart in this matter. --- lol

Because even if they aren't on this site en-mass, they are still stronger. If you want to have an accurate list of who is the strongest clans, then you can't just ignore clans who don't currently post. If you don't make yourselves relevant to them, they won't have any need to show up. I understand that not having them on the list allows for mid-sized and small clans to be ranked that much higher, but a list like that is simply a lie, just like the current list. You're not 'catering' to them by putting them on the list - there are no special favors. Even if the fight was crashed, it could still be used to sway the opinions of the panel. The panel would not be limited to "winners", rather, winning would just be one point for which the panel could consider. There are many more things about a fight than "who gets to post the topic" that can be considered, and not considering those factors was one of the shortcomings of RAW. The 'unwritten rule' is unnecessary. Nice, but definitely something beyond the scope of a ranking system. We don't want an accurate list of who the strongest clan is in the clan world, we want an accurate list of clans that are in the TWR who are not only good but actively participate in it. If you start making changes to "attract" top clans to come here, those changes may annoy the clans already on this list because it makes things harder for smaller clans and then they will just leave, and then I'm almost certain none of the top clans will come with changes like that. Read the second part of what you quoted me on, Find out first if they are even remotely interested in a ranking list in which they will know past lists have faiiled / been inaccurate / drama involved / getting boring wars. Okay. So what you say you want is a list of all the clans who bother to sign up. But not only ranking them by order of who is "good", you would like them to be ranked also by who "actively participates in it". When I can create a ten man team, declare on everyone, and in the span of a week take #1 on the TWR because of "activity", something is broken, dear. And it's not like it would be hard to do - I might not even have to log on to the game if everyone simply declines me. Here's a little food for thought for you: The last two TWR declarations were made nearly two weeks ago, both on the same day. The declaration before that was made more than a month ago. News flash: no one currently actively participates in TWR, with arguably the exception of the two clans involved in that 2-week old declaration. Changes need to happen to the TWR, or the TWR will continue to be as dead as it has been, and a dead TWR is beneficial to no one. Yes, having higher clans here will make things "harder" for smaller clans. And by that I mean that the number next to their name will be higher. Instead of acting like the highest tier of clans don't exist, why not lay out the bedspread and welcome them to the community? It's not about your clan or my clan or any clan at all benefiting from this, it is about Tip.it and also about the survival of the TWR in some form or another - but do know that the TWR as it stands now is no longer pulling interest from clans as evidenced by the across-the-board activity lapse. It's not the tournaments, either, and with the Wilderness' return changes will have to be made anyway to accommodate for whatever Jagex throws at us on February 1st. Having an accurate list is no reason for a smaller clan to leave. They will need to come to terms with the fact that #1 isn't achievable for them. If they desire to be #1 strongly enough, it is possible but only with ingame skill, strong leaders, recruitment, and dedication. Why must the goal always be #1? Set a goal for #20. Set a goal for #15. Set a goal to break into the top ten. Those are a sample of achievable goals for smaller clans. There is room here for both large clans and smaller clans. Make the playing field fair, even for the big guy. Poll results about if top clans 'want' to be ranked on tip.it are obviously going to be very one-sided - you know as well as I do that the past experiences from the RAW list, as well as the TWR being on tip.it instead of their current primary fansite, will bias them. Put them on the list, and when they see that they are getting attention here, they will come around. It's up to the Tip.it and TWR officials to see that the reputation they have gathered, for catering specifically to the lower-tier clans, comes to an end.

Because even if they aren't on this site en-mass, they are still stronger. If you want to have an accurate list of who is the strongest clans, then you can't just ignore clans who don't currently post. If you don't make yourselves relevant to them, they won't have any need to show up. I understand that not having them on the list allows for mid-sized and small clans to be ranked that much higher, but a list like that is simply a lie, just like the current list. You're not 'catering' to them by putting them on the list - there are no special favors. Even if the fight was crashed, it could still be used to sway the opinions of the panel. The panel would not be limited to "winners", rather, winning would just be one point for which the panel could consider. There are many more things about a fight than "who gets to post the topic" that can be considered, and not considering those factors was one of the shortcomings of RAW. The 'unwritten rule' is unnecessary. Nice, but definitely something beyond the scope of a ranking system.

I think one of the major problems is that people here feel that they would be "giving the shaft" to clans who have been here for a long time if they change things. Any given clan has a certain amount of strength, and none of that strength is due to how long a clan has been on this site. If you are trying to make a warring list, make it accurate. There are better places to throw a bone to loyal customers than on the TWR regulations. Suggestion: Forget having clans sign up for TWR. Forget having clans declare/accept for TWR. Have the TWR team look at each topic that is made in Clan Fights and have that panel determine if the fight is going to be considered for TWR (based on new regulations). Have the panel come to a consensus on an official list. Anyone involved in any TWR-approved topic posted in Clan Fights becomes involved in the TWR list at a level determined by the panel. To advance on the TWR, clans simply would fight just as they do right now, until they convince the panel that they ought to be ranked higher. The panel will have many freedoms, and if they feel a certain clan's activity is so far superior to another that they would rank said clan above the other, then so be it. However, panel member selection must be done carefully and panel members need to be objective about their own clans and rivals. And yes, panel members will argue amongst each other, but that is the point. ;) Source: Tip.it and TWR need a jump start.

I think one of the major problems is that people here feel that they would be "giving the shaft" to clans who have been here for a long time if they change things. Any given clan has a certain amount of strength, and none of that strength is due to how long a clan has been on this site. If you are trying to make a warring list, make it accurate. There are better places to throw a bone to loyal customers than on the TWR regulations. Suggestion: Forget having clans sign up for TWR. Forget having clans declare/accept for TWR. Have the TWR team look at each topic that is made in Clan Fights and have that panel determine if the fight is going to be considered for TWR (based on new regulations). Have the panel come to a consensus on an official list. Anyone involved in any TWR-approved topic posted in Clan Fights becomes involved in the TWR list at a level determined by the panel. To advance on the TWR, clans simply would fight just as they do right now, until they convince the panel that they ought to be ranked higher. The panel will have many freedoms, and if they feel a certain clan's activity is so far superior to another that they would rank said clan above the other, then so be it. However, panel member selection must be done carefully and panel members need to be objective about their own clans and rivals. And yes, panel members will argue amongst each other, but that is the point. ;)

ooo, i remember that, was fun.. how many ppl went crying and might quit the game too ? haha was fun but evil. Reminds me when I would go upstairs in a building in Varrock looking at the minimap waiting for people to go upstairs to drop trade. :thumbup: I would do the same with the tower in Lumbridge. An important note though: MMG said they were keeping gravestones in PvE deaths because they didn't want players profiting off of other player's lag/misfortune. It may be possible that expensive items won't appear if you drop them. Ah, those were the days. I remember being on both sides of that coin. One time I died at Karamja volcano lessers because I logged out of the game to deal with some IRL stuff... I came back to the game to find myself not only still logged in, but dead. Made my way back to the volcano and the players were nice enough to hand most of my stuff back over. I also remember the people who would teleport away to Falador after they were fighting some sort of poisonous monster. I remember one instance in particular where the guy must have disconnected or something and everyone death dotted on top of the poor soul as his life chipped away. When he finally died, everyone made off with his stuff and it was like a miniature drop party. I'm sure that most people who played back then have similar memories. I remember one of the thrills for me is that knowing if I died that people would loot my corpse and take my stuff. Quite the incentive to stay alive!

I've personally been awake for more than 72 hours straight, non-drugged. And on runescape too. My insomnia got pretty bad a few years ago. Not sure if that counts. lol

(The ancient statuettes mention above is what got me on the topic below) Don't forget that items will still disappear from the game when you die in PVP. That would be: the items that aren't picked up. It's quite possible that someone who is jumped after their kill may not be able to loot even the most valuable items from their kill's pile before they are sent to Lumbridge. Of course, it won't be as powerful an effect as the current PVP loot system, but it is something to consider along with the apparent removal of statuettes. And with an expected rise in the number of individuals joining clans, it is certain that this effect will not be completely gone from the game. [For anyone who doesn't understand what clans have to do with it: alot ( :shades: ) of the time you're more interested in moving on to kill the next opponent rather than loot the pile for anything other than food/runes/arrows. Loot weighs you down so that you can't run as far. Many clans have rules against looting armor from piles until victory is assured. So, a lot of armor leaves the game unless it is looted by a third party.] To answer your question: it's possible for extreme deflation to happen, but it would have to be some sort of botched goldsink on Jagex's part. If it happened, it surely would not be intentional.

soulfire Heart Unit or PCE

Do you think Tipit currently creates a competitive atmosphere between clans, and produces solid rivalries? Lol, no. The TWR list is a joke, and they ignored Adrian's suggestions which would actually have improved it. And now that the wilderness is coming back, there'll be absolutely no reason to declare anymore except for beef because if a clan wants a fight then it'll just be a matter of going PKing and hunting someone down. The older clans will have the advantage on the CWA-era clans, although those CWA clans who have attempted to move to PVP in the current system will find that they also have a step up. CWA won't be completely dead after the change, but it'll be greatly reduced. Kind of like finding a CastleWars clan right now - you could find one if you looked, but they aren't mainstream. This is the future of the clan wars arena. Clans that do not adapt to the Wilderness, even if it puts them in temporary trouble, will die. Do you think ranking only certain clans in ranking lists, in order to make things more competitive would benefit or hurt? Rank everyone in the lists. What, are you going to try and penalize a clan for not posting here en mass? If you refuse to make yourself relevant to them then you shouldn't expect activity from them. If you build it they will come etc What type of impovements do you see necessary to build a more competitive community, or do you already find it competitive? I think it would be a great change to scrap TWR completely and create a tipit-sponsored "Supreme Court" body that decides on a list which is updated once or twice a week. The people designated to do this will have to be realistic in terms of their own clans and have great widespread knowledge of the full clan scenario. That means being able to comment in detail not only about the top clans but also on the medium and small clans as well. Although winning a fight won't directly influence your ranking in this method as it did in TWR or even RaW, it'd be a great way to increase awareness of the top 40 or so clans in a time where individuals are being brought back to the game and new clans are forming.

I don't think you even realize that what you're saying in regards to 'wilderness-specific worlds' has implications beyond the two people hopping worlds at the Abyss. I'm absolutely not going to go into it in extravagant detail because you're clearly just trying to be argumentative, but the basic fact of the matter is that small clans need many more worlds than they have available right now to operate, and that the teams hunting "you, the rune-mining, abyss-running skiller", will need to watch out because they're going to be hunted by bigger fish. The moral of the story is that smaller clans need to have a multitude of worlds to hop to so that medium and large clans can't find them. If these clans can be tracked easily, they stand no chance. Grouping everyone into five worlds as it is right now is absolutely stifling new clan growth to the point where new clans are needing to establish themselves in CWA - and then they have problems transitioning to the more difficult wilderness system. You may not personally feel that smaller clans are important, given your prejudices, but the clan world needs their return, and I'm sure once Jagex realizes this, that they will find them valuable too. More revenue... oh yes! Do they need every world? No, but they will need most of them. As it has been said, with Jagex it's typically all-or-nothing so good luck. As far as the wilderness being an addon to the 'free trade' bill.. lol. Kind of backwards there, in my opinion. The wilderness is an established arena which we know works well because it has years of successful history behind it. The wilderness was removed because free trade was removed - you couldn't possibly remove free trade and keep the wilderness as it was. The limited trade we have now works, not fully, (there is junk trading, manipulation clan chats, and too-rigid prices) but it's acceptable and people have gotten used to that. But bringing the wilderness back and not bringing free trade back along with it doesn't make any sense because it'd be simple to just kill each other for whatever you wanted to trade. In short: the wilderness was removed because free trade was removed, but free trade is coming back because the wilderness is coming back. -- I absolutely agree. Skillers and non-pkers absolutely need to be given adequate reason to brave the danger of the Wilderness. The main lures of the Wilderness for people who weren't looking to actively kill others were green dragon hunting, prayer training at the boneyard, collecting whiteberry spawns at red dragons, killing the red dragons, killing the Chaos Elemental, the hobgoblin mine, the Agility arena, the fishing spots on the east coast, the Mage Bank spells/capes, the admant/mithril mine west of mage bank, the rune rocks, training on the ice giants/warriiors in the icy northwest, the lava maze chest, cooking pizzas and looting the runes in the dark warrior's fortress. And that's just off the top of my head, but you get the idea. If it is found that there isn't suitable reward for the risk, then absolutely I would support additional reward to get people to brave the danger. What was rewarding for skillers years ago may not be as rewarding today given all the new items that are available. But then again, to up the reward will up the risk, as players looking for their easy kills will be there. The nonpkers will have to either defend themselves or find a way to escape, fight or flight. -- As I see it the only reason they'd be able to say no, given the poll, is based on how many accounts voted. At the moment, it's 400429 people. While quite a few, it's not near the 1.2m they got earlier. Then again, this poll was released on Christmas Eve and we're just barely out of Christmas Day right now. I think a lot of people are not available to vote because of the holiday. With that said, I would imagine the results of that portion of the community to fall in line with the 400k sample we currently have. I believe if this poll was held at a different time, there would be more votes registered after the same duration. I think it would be overskeptical to think that the difference in poll responses is a significant reason to reject the results of the poll, even given the guarantee of multiple-voting in the petition.

I'm telling you that you need to get over your discriminatory bias against PKers as "prepubescent kids on power trips". You're generalizing a very large community by the bottom of the barrel. Your stats are irrelevant.

You need to get over your hate and bias. Yes, if you go into a dangerous place and are not prepared, then you will die. If you make it look like you have placed your items on a silver platter for anyone to take, then chances are pretty good that someone will bite. You seem like the kind of person who doesn't believe in the food chain in real life, that everything should get along with peace and flowers, and all those mean animals like bears and tigers and sharks should all be placed on one continent to eat each other so the rabbits and gazelles can have their tea party in the lion's den. There will be banter. There will be competition. And if you make yourself look like dinner, you will get eaten. Standing around rune rocks with a pickaxe in your hand makes you look like steak and potatoes. Running around with nothing on trying to do a clue will make you look like horseradish. Sure, some people like horseradish but most will skip over you. You need to understand that the rune rocks and the Abyss were put in the wilderness by Jagex on purpose, knowing full well what would happen. Now, I'm sorry if you had a bad experience and lost your bank to that kid you were talking about who said 'gf nerd lo1l1ol', but you need to get over it. Not every PKer is like that. You should try joining a decent Pking clan when the wilderness comes out, or even now, and perhaps that would give you some accurate perspective as to how there are some pretty awesome people in the community. There's a big difference in who you kill and it actually used to be a big argument back in the day, Honor vs No-Honor. Honor, being the policy of leaving skillers alone for the most part and even helping them, whereas No-honor would be the reverse of that, among other things. However, both are legitimate acts of 'PKing' because 'player killing' is exactly that. No one likes it when someone overpowers them, but you need to be prepared for the possibility and know what to do.

Assuming they saved the code when it was removed from the game, I'm sure a lot of that coding could be reused. Then again, we've been through 3 or so game engine upgrades since then, so who knows...