muggiwhplar

It's an issue of how realistic your intentions are.

How about we do something different for once. I want you guys to tell me why you think monogamy will make you happy, and what you imagine your monogamous life to look like, what you expect, etc. Also be sure to include WHY you choose monogamy, as opposed to celibacy or polyamory.

Glad 5x5 works well for you too. Are you maxing often?

I edited my post while you were quoting it. Another point I made was: I think comparing the 0.2 hours spent using charms to training other skills during the weekend is irrelevant. You're only able to get crazy XP rates for 0.2 hours, not 48 hours like all the other skills. Even if you were able to use your charms for the entire 48 hours, that'd still require you to spend 1200 hours collecting those charms beforehand. So in that sense, it still balances out in the end with all things considered.

You're right, spending 0.2 hours during BXPW using your charms will save you 5.2 hours worth of charm collecting in the future. But again, you're conveniently ignoring the time it took to acquire those charms in the first place. It took you 5 hours. Therefore, regardless of when you chose to collect and use your charms, you're still saving half the time (as opposed to 30x or 50x). And again you're right that that can be "unbalanced" in comparison to the other skills over the weekend. But if you look at the bigger picture, it's just as fair as every other skill at the end of the day (err, weekend). The allocation of time is irrelevant since it's all balanced evenly in the end. You're only able to get crazy XP rates for 0.2 hours, not 48 hours like all the other skills. Even if you were able to use your charms for the entire 48 hours, that'd still require you to spend 1200 hours collecting those charms beforehand. Seems fair enough to me.

You're not taking into account how long it took to acquire the charms you're using during BXPW in the first place, though. It didn't take you 0.2 hours to save 5.2 hours. It took you 5.2 hours to save 5.2 hours. Those charms didn't just magically appear out of nowhere.

Okay, but how much time did you spend collecting 5 hours worth of charms in the first place? 150 hours, right?

Ok, do me a favor and check my math to ensure that I'm not missing something important here. Let's say your goal is 1,000,000XP in summoning. Let's say crimson charms are worth 500XP each. Let's say you can collect 200 charms/hr Let's say you can use 5000 charms/hr at the obelisk. Non-BXPW Figures: Since crimson charms are 500XP each, you need 2000 charms for 1,000,000XP (500*2000=1,000,000) Since you can collect 200 charms/hr, you spend 10 hours collecting 2000 charms (200*10=2000) Since you can use 5000 charms/hr at the obelisk, using 2000 charms will take you 0.4 hours (2000/5000=0.4) 10 hours collecting + 0.4 hours using = 10.4 HOURS TOTAL TIME SPENT FOR 1M SUMMONING XP BXPW Figures: Since crimson charms are now 1000XP each, you need 1000 charms for 1,000,000XP (2*500*1000=1,000,000) Since you can collect 200 charms/hr, you spend 5 hours collecting 1000 charms (200*5=1000) Since you can use 5000 charms/hr at the obelisk, using 1000 charms will take you 0.2 hours (1000/5000=0.2) 5 hours collecting + 0.2 hours using = 5.2 HOURS TOTAL TIME SPENT FOR 1M SUMMONING XP

Following your logic, if it takes 300 hours to collect and use the charms for 1-99 summoning, then I can create a new character over the weekend and get 99 summoning in only 10 hours. Right?

Haha no worries, when I was read your post, I was asking myself, "Yeah, I agree with this, and...? What's he trying to say?" lol. With that said, I apologize in advance if I'm still missing your point :P Reading comprehension isn't my forte. Ok, when it comes to emotional maturity and getting hurt, sometimes getting hurt is inevitable. But there's nothing wrong with getting hurt. It's only wrong when you make stupid decisions based on that pain. I see this as existing on three levels: Level 1: getting hurt; acting on that hurt and doing stupid things Level 2: getting hurt; behaving rationally despite current emotional state Level 3: not getting hurt at all Knowledge and understanding can help you jump from level 1 to level 2, but you can't really jump from level 2 to level 3 until you've had enough personal experience to become "immune" to the emotional pain. In other words, your logical brain might "understand" that there's no logical reason for feeling hurt, however your emotional brain will still make you feel hurt. It isn't until you've demonstrated to your emotional brain time and time again that the pain isn't the end of the world, that it will make the pain go away. But you won't be able to make that demonstration if you're constantly reinforcing pain with more pain by doing stupid things based off the pain. Hope that makes sense, let me know if I need to articulate it better. So let's look at that within the context of my relationships. I consider myself a pretty emotional guy-- sometimes far more emotional than I'd like to be, lol. If I see someone in pain, I'll automatically feel sorry for them. Even if they just did something awful and "deserve" to be in pain; I'll still feel sorry for them. In other words, seeing them in pain puts me in pain. The difference, however, is I'll still treat them the way they "deserve" to be treated in a rational manner. I'll feel sorry for them, but I won't allow my feelings to change my behavior towards them in a way that I/they would later come to regret. There's always a point where a girl's Disney fantasy of me and her getting married and living happily ever after comes crashing down. That's inevitable because I'm not monogamous and never will be. Therefore, she'll get upset when she has this realization. And guess what happens to me? I get upset too because I hate seeing the people I love in anguish. So when this happens, I could simply get exclusive with her to make her feel happy, and therefore make me feel happy too. The problem here is, as I'm sure you all know by now, I don't believe that monogamy can last. Therefore, this would just be a short-lived happiness which gradually stagnates over time. So instead, I just accept the pain and acknowledge that it's irrational and temporary. If the girl chooses to leave me for another guy who will get exclusive with her, she'll get sick of him later on and come back to me. Temporary pain in exchange for happiness down the road in my case. Temporary happiness in exchange for more pain down the road in her case until she returns. As this process occurs more and more with different women who keep returning, and I keep seeing them happier with me overall in the long run, the pain becomes less and less severe because I know I'm doing the right thing: I'm experiencing short-term pain in exchange for long-term happiness. Sorry again if that has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make. It's not that you couldn't articulate your point clearly, it's just that my reading comprehension skills aren't very good :P

Yes, emotional maturity's a basic requirement for any type of relationship if you don't want it to hurt you or the people you care for.

What exactly do you think I'm betting?

You're missing the point. Cheating is just one of the many many reasons stacked against you to suggest that monogamy is an awful idea. Whenever I talk about all of these "disadvantages," yet you continue to say "but it CAN work!" it reminds me of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA Yes, I've never said that it can't work. But when it "works," it doesn't look like you would expect it to look. It looks very boring. But boredom is subjective. So it's up to you to decide if it's worth betting your money and happiness on that. No such "bet" is needed with polyamory.

I just feel like it would be a useful skill to have for future training purposes. But practicing handstands scares the shit out of me... always afraid I'm gonna fall awkwardly and break my neck or something >_>

Can anybody here do a handstand? >_>

I've said many times in the past-- the reason why most relationships fail is usually beyond the two peoples' control. It doesn't matter how mature they are. It's not like I'd have any better "results" with monogamy than you guys. I'd be fighting the same uphill battle as everyone else, regardless of my own qualities. Also keep in mind what the implications would be if/when this happens: Me: "Long-term monogamy is stupid. It just doesn't work." *Relationships-Thread-Visitor enters long-term monogamous relationship* Me: "Hey congrats buddy, I know you can do it!" I would love to see that person succeed and be happy for the rest of his life in such an arrangement. But I just don't believe it's possible. I can wish him all the best and hope it'll work out, but to tell him that he's making the right decision would not only be lying; it would be downright hypocritical of me and undermine everything that I talk about. So I guess you could say I'd rather be labeled a douche than a liar or a hypocrite :P

I think you can choose to interpret any of my posts as "potshots" if I'm criticizing monogamy and/or advocating polyamory directly to someone who's having problems with monogamy. Or, in this recent event, reminding people that cheating wouldn't be an issue if you weren't monogamous. Honestly I think you're making mountains out of molehills here, Kimberly. It's not like someone just got dumped and I said, "BAHAHAHA that'll teach you to choose monogamy, sucker!" Rather, everyone was getting all involved in a discussion about cheating-- something which could be avoided altogether if they didn't insist on monogamy. And for the record, I bite my tongue enough in this thread as it is. Every time someone posts about hitting it off with a girl they're infatuated with, I choose not to rain on their parade with scary facts and warnings, even though I know their joy won't last forever. But at least I know that I'd be wasting my time with those people since they're temporarily impossible to reason with. The same can't be said for arguing my beliefs against people like you or any other regular poster in this thread who's generally more level-headed and open-minded.

Stupid mistakes are all the same thing to me: making a poor decision based off of your current emotions, rather than your rationality. Or just not knowing what you don't know... but that's not a valid excuse here :P As a friendly reminder, polyamory is not 100% perfect. But it's better than monogamy. Think of it this way; rating them on a 10-point scale: Mono: 5/10 Poly: 8/10 People criticize poly for not being perfect, and use that as an excuse not to explore it. They'd only choose poly if it was a 10/10. But there's no such thing as 10/10; not in this day and age, at least. People would rather stick with their 5/10 than upgrade to an 8/10. And that makes no sense.

@Gio It's not even about commitment (as much as I wish it was, since it's rare that someone defends me on here :P) I can still be madly in love with one girl and hold her in my arms and cuddle with her all night and feel the same feelings you guys do. The only difference is: I'm allowed to see other people while she's not around. And she's allowed to see other people while I'm not around. The reason why I allow this is not because I'm afraid of limiting myself to just one person. I do it because if she's the only girl I'm with, she will eventually grow bored of me if I keep my promise with regards to cheating; or she will eventually get too fed up with my infidelity and leave me. The only way to keep the women you love around forever without sacrificing passion (albeit with an on-again-off-again dynamic) is through polyamory.

Yes, I agree with that. My point was, monogamy requires you to place a certain list of expectations on your partner. Some of these expectations are completely unrealistic and just begging to be violated. And what happens when they're violated? Loss of trust. The solution isn't to find someone who you can trust to live up to your expectations. The solution is to not put those expectations on them in the first place, and therefore not have to worry about them breaking your trust. When it comes to those "universal elements" of trust such as caring, support and understanding, yes those should be a given in every relationship. But those are also normal behaviors. If I tell you that you'll get burned for putting your hand on the stove, and you put your hand on the stove and get burned, you don't have the right to complain about your sore hand. This becomes even more true if they keep touching the stove over and over and over again, trying to keep touching the stove but without getting burned. The reason no one does the same thing to me is because I don't complain when my hand gets burned.

Before I continue, I'd like to state my definition of "cheating" to make sure we're talking about the same thing here. To me, cheating is promising to be exclusive with someone, and then breaking that promise by having a sexual/romantic relationship with a different person without your partner's consent. Elaborate on trust please. Trust what? Trust that you'll never "cheat" on your partner and remain loyal forever? That's limited to monogamy. I "trust" humans to behave like humans. If someone chooses to "cheat," I don't blame them for having sex with someone other than their partner; I blame them for making a promise that they were too either stupid or deceptive to be able to keep. You consider it wagging it over others. I consider it holding others accountable for their life decisions.

No, the worst part is making a promise that you can't keep. Or expecting humans to not behave like humans.

No, but cheating is.

I agree. My point was, if one person is willing to cheat, then it's probably safe to say that the relationship wasn't exactly a healthy one to begin with. How you choose to act with those implications in mind is up to you. #monogamyproblems

If a person is willing to cheat, then it's not really cutting it short..