Alphanos

A report can, in no way be proof of rwting, and jagex has algorithms to detect them, and as evidenced by their removal of rwting from the list. If jagex doesn't want people to report for this(as it would be useless anyway), why go out of your way to be a rat? I have no problem with people reporting others for personal humiliation or some serious offense, but this topic is clearly about a rat being a rat. 1) We know that Jagex doesn't catch everyone by algorithms. Don't even try to say otherwise. 2) We know that the person the OP was discussing outright admitted to RWTing. 3) We know that RWTing is considered one of the more serious Runescape offences. I understand, and agree with, people saying that 99.9% of reports for RWTing were probably bogus. That generalization does not apply to this case. If the OP had reported someone for RWTing just because they had a bunch of cash, but couldn't prove anything, I would agree that that would be dumb. That isn't what happened. This topic is, apparently, about people who think that Jagex is the enemy of all Runescape players.

Going over a number of posts, I'm going to generalize the opinions of those opposed to the OP's actions. 1) RWTing is bad. Or at least I haven't seen anyone state outright that they support RWT. 2) Okay, the person discussed probably did RWT. This was admitted very reluctantly. (?) 3) But, reporting is worse! So far as I can tell, and as I originally expected, this seems to be motivated by some sort of juvenile "rebellion" thought process. Jagex is an authority figure, therefore going against them is cool because it's going against "the man". Support cheaters because they're cool for defying authority, and anyone who plays by the rules is lame and a suck up, since anarchy is obviously better. If Jagex can catch someone, then oh well, it happens, but don't tattle snitch report because we need to stick together against the nasty teachers po-po Jagex, who just want to spoil everyone's fun. I'm fairly disgusted. If you believe that the existing rules are there for good reason and agree with them, you should be prepared to report rule-breakers. If you believe an existing rule is wrong, say so and defend your position. But if you really believe that the rules are good, yet rule-breakers should not be reported, then you'll need to do a lot better than ad hominem attacks calling people "wanna be mods". It's obvious to everyone that Jagex can't catch all rule violations through automated systems. I don't think the person the OP encountered should be banned, but that isn't what we're talking about. Reporting just lets Jagex apply the same rules, fairly, to everyone. Thinking that the reporter is to blame for the rule-breaker's punishment is like saying that it's a witness' fault for a murderer going to jail - no, actually, it's the fault of the murderer. If the rules are good ones, why shouldn't we do what we can to reduce botting/RWTing/etc?

Also, whips in particular are being hit from a number of directions at once: 1) Chaotics mean they're being replaced by high-end players. 2) Due to PvP changes very few now exit the game. 3) The supply is increased due to the ashes update, making Abyssals an even more attractive camping option than in the past, since they now all have a 100% drop nearly as valuable as dragon bones. I wouldn't be too surprised to see whips fall to 500k over time. There may be rebounds as speculators try to re-rise it to prior prices, but when the supply is increasing and the demand is decreasing, there's only so much buyouts can do.

[/hide] As you talked about hearsay before, you can't punish people if there is no proof(that someone cheated or killed anyone). Talk in rs can't be proof of rwting. But why exactly doesn't confessing count as proof? If I say in Runescape chat that you did something, agreed, that's obviously hearsay. But if I confess that I did something myself, shouldn't that count for something? Again, if they confessed, how can they say "It was a gift" ? In general you make an excellent point, but regarding this specific case? How about reporting because you don't want Runescape to be a game where you buy items with real-world cash? How about reporting because those rules aren't just generic "authority" to defy/despise, but because they actually make the game better for the rest of us? Who cares what Jagex thinks, but if they're willing to get rid of some types of problem players, I say that's a good thing for me. lolwut? You must have a serious grudge against Blyaunte, and apparently anything to do with her. I'm the one who's been arguing that she was in the right in this situation?

because jagex removed RWT from the list of reportable options This sounds to me like an entirely different discussion. I could be mistaken, but it seems to me unlikely that this is the reason which would motivate calling the OP a "rat". Jagex removed the option because they DON'T WANT PEOPLE REPORTING for this because there's no way to know that someone is RWTing in game. OP goes out of her way to report players for this despite Jagex's desires otherwise. if going out of your way to be a rat doesn't make you a rat, i don't know what is. I believe you're correct in theorizing that Jagex took away the option due to bogus, unconfirmable reports. That wasn't the case here. If we're correct about why Jagex removed the option, then this situation should be reported. If you want the OP to be a "rat", come up with a different theory as to why Jagex doesn't want RWT to be reported.

because jagex removed RWT from the list of reportable options This sounds to me like an entirely different discussion. I could be mistaken, but it seems to me unlikely that this is the reason which would motivate calling the OP a "rat". Especially with the new filter, its like turn it on if you don't like bad profanity... I can agree with this. My understanding has always been that particular words are not reportable - why bother censoring if they were, when Jagex could just auto-report them? The context is what's relevant to determining whether something's worth reporting. I.E. if someone's not just tossing out an insult, but going on for 5+ minutes with everything they can think of, etc. I doubt I've reported more than once or twice for that kind of thing in all the time I've been playing. I do have fairly strong views though about botting, RWTing, stealing accounts with fake RS websites, etc.

Did the guy break any rules? Not that i know of. So if he didn't, and he didn't insult the OP in any way, what did he exactly do wrong? The offense he is being accused of can't be dealt with within rs chat screen, so why even have the option there. If i said that i bought rs gp from you, should both of us be banned from these forums? Firstly, there's a difference between admitting to a crime, and accusing someone else of a crime. Secondly, I guess the real question I have is whether you think that this player admitting to RWTing was lying (for some reason?), or whether you think that it's okay to break the rules so long as you're not caught immediately. I.E. if breaking the rules in a certain way doesn't get you caught, then it's okay to talk about it, and no punishment should come down on you since they didn't catch you when they had the chance. RWTing isn't a crime, and people can talk about anything they want. Talking about doing something and actually doing it are two separate entities, and unless you lie on an official federal hearing, your words can't or atleast shouldn't be used against you. In the situation described, the OP has no idea if the guy did as he said, or was just blowing smoke, thus there is neither a reason for reporting him nor there being an rwt report option. Jagex handles rwt cases on a separate basis as they actually have the means to prove something like this(not just go with the he-said-she-said stuff). Also, i'd be admitting to rule-breaking at the same time as dragging you into it. It wouldn't really be an accusation. As I understand it, you're saying that if anyone admits to any wrongdoing outside of a court setting, it should be considered hearsay and ignored. I find it hard to believe that you would actually follow such a policy in settings outside of Runescape however. For example, if someone's significant other admits to cheating on them, should it be ignored because they might be blowing smoke? If you meet a random stranger on the street and start talking with them, and they casually start talking about having murdered someone, would you just let it go because talking about it and actually doing it are two separate entities? Obviously RWTing is totally different from murder, and I'm not trying to equate the two. I also agree that there are probably countless players submitting bogus reports of abuse for no real reason. However, it seems to me that the OP encountered a situation where a stranger outright admitted to what is, in Runescape, a fairly serious offence. Perhaps you're right and Jagex requires a higher standard of proof to take any action, but I'm just trying to understand the reasons why you think it shouldn't be reported in the first place.

[/hide] Sorry about off topic ish this will be last time just confirming something really important. He was reffering to when odin got hacked recently I happen to be friends with odin he got the ip adress of the hacker..etc I belive the dungeoneering ban was well before this incident ? However also thanks to the guy who gave me the answer about re-installing windows I just wanna make sure can i get a second opinion? Re installing windows will take anything like a keylogger..etc off my computer? Im not worried bout losing pics..etc I have all those backed up in flash drives and my emails so ima check this thread again when I get home or if im still in this class w/ a computer lol and some1 asnweres me then if so, when I get home ill re install windows. Also I think the 2011 predictions up there were nice maybe some more slightly around never know tezz may be pk ing same as telmo or..etc I think suomi will be rank 1 some time in 2012 his slayer pace will be nice this year and hell get that out of the way and hopefully let him do some buyables as well Also dont forget the herb xp suomi will gain during slayer from making the overloads as he goes. May not make much a difference but thats another +40m xp If you format your HDD when you reinstall it should be removed, but there may also be a chance the virus/keylogger is on your flash drive. It is possible to write malware, including keyloggers, which can conceivably survive a reformat the way Windows does it. However, chances are very slim that this level of sophistication would be present in a keylogger being used to steal Runescape accounts. No average malware will be this advanced. If you want to be absolutely, 110% sure, you would need to use a bootable zero-fill program from optical media, or install the hard drive as a secondary in another non-Windows-based PC and use a tool like "dd". Again, chances of this being relevant are extremely slim. If you did want to pursue this, a good choice might be to get someone with a clean machine to burn you the DVD version of Knoppix, which is a version of Linux bootable from optical media. Knoppix includes the standard tool "dd", which can without a doubt erase all traces of everything from your hard drive - professional data recovery companies won't even bother trying to recover anything erased in this way. A more realistic concern, as mentioned above, is the chance of the malware having infected your flash drive(s). This is also unlikely, but more likely than the malware surviving a Windows reformat. If you know when the keylogger appeared, and haven't used the flash drive since then, you'll be okay for sure. Edit: I see from a new post that you haven't used the flash drive(s) in some time, so the below hidden section can probably be ignored. [hide=Previous Info About Cleaning Flash Drives]Again, only if you want to be super-paranoid about it, there are some steps you could take. Basically you'd want to take the flash drives to another PC running Linux or Mac OS X, and copy all the files that you want to save to that computer. Be careful not to just copy everything - you'd want to look through and make sure you didn't copy over the malware by mistake. After backing up the contents of those flash drive(s), use the same zero-fill/"dd" process to totally wipe them clean, then reformat them normally and copy your data back over to them. A simpler but less thorough technique here would be to copy over the data to a Linux or Mac machine, just reformat the flash drives normally without zero-filling, and copying the data back to the flash drives.[/hide] Again, just to clarify, the chances of any of this being necessary are incredibly slim. However, this is considering what's possible, not what's likely. The level of complexity you go to should depend on how sophisticated you suspect this hacker to be, and how much you value your Runescape account (along with any other data on your PC).

Did the guy break any rules? Not that i know of. So if he didn't, and he didn't insult the OP in any way, what did he exactly do wrong? The offense he is being accused of can't be dealt with within rs chat screen, so why even have the option there. If i said that i bought rs gp from you, should both of us be banned from these forums? Firstly, there's a difference between admitting to a crime, and accusing someone else of a crime. Secondly, I guess the real question I have is whether you think that this player admitting to RWTing was lying (for some reason?), or whether you think that it's okay to break the rules so long as you're not caught immediately. I.E. if breaking the rules in a certain way doesn't get you caught, then it's okay to talk about it, and no punishment should come down on you since they didn't catch you when they had the chance.

I have to admit to being a bit confused. There seem to be people here who think that rule-breaking is normal and should go unhindered, while the real problem is those "rats" who follow the game's rules and report those breaking them. I'm just trying to figure out what values are being used to reach this reasoning. Do these players support the existence of i.e. RWT in Runescape? Do they think that breaking the rules is acceptable if not caught by Jagex directly? Do they think that all rule-breaking is admirable? Seriously, I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, but I'd really like to hear what the thought process is here.

Forums like this are frequented by generally high-level players discussing things like the best ways to train skills / make money / fight Nex / PK / etc. This isn't the target audience, so you get a lot of people here who say things like "Oh this isn't worth it green dragons are better". If you can fight green dragons for cash, law running isn't targeted at your level bracket. The target audience is low-level players, like level 20-60 combat, who can do this with zero risk whatsoever. Imagine, when you were first playing at level 20, being able to afford a set of full rune with only one hour of work! That's way better than the money you make collecting and selling i.e. cow hides. For the target audience for runners, law running is serious cash. To the OP: If you're looking for more runners, it will be hard to find them here, because most of the target audience hasn't yet thought of looking for Runescape fansites with more detailed info on the game, let alone joining the discussion forums. You'll probably be better off telling people at the GE on different worlds, or maybe Lumbridge? The trouble is it's much harder to reach a large audience that way.

My Bonus XP prediction: low rares will crash as people with i.e. Santas cash in to buy herb or whatever. High rares won't move much, since the players who have those have probably either finished whatever buyables they want or have enough cash on hand to get the supplies they need.

The market will be far more volatile this time as compared to the past two bonus weekends. Instead of having to wait a week for bought out supplies to rise enough for merchers to sell, free trade means that the prices of everything can turn on a dime. There could easily be a dozen spikes and crashes on everything before the weekend hits. For those trying to get supplies for the weekend, your chances might actually be better than the previous two. For merchers, the weekend will be both far more potentially lucrative, and far more risky...

I feel like I've reached the point where few things that I'm still saving up for would have much impact on my regular play, so I'd like to get into flip merchanting. To start with I'll probably be working with around 60-100M. Does anyone have any advice as to what might be good to start with? Santas, masks, spectral/arcane, third age pieces, something else...? I know these types of questions have been asked before, but the market has undergone some pretty big changes with the reintroduction of the wilderness and free trade. Thanks in advance :).

Based on the titling of While Guthix Sleeps, I suspect he could also make an appearance. After all, this next quest isn't called While Guthix Sleeps is it? The implication to me seems to be that the events occurring during his slumber have come to an end....

I should have bought more soft clay in advance. Bought 10k soft clay for ~1M when BtS first mentioned urns - offered to sell this morning for medium price of twice that, and instead instantly sold for double medium price, 4x what I paid originally. :thumbsup: If I had gotten more, I probably could have made 100M #-o.

Definitely not true. The dates were very clearly selected to align with North American school schedules. Erm sure cause its not like any kid at a normal school anywhere is able to play on any weekend. Plus they ran march and sept. Sure march sometimes is easter, but usually not early march. And last i checked even in american school starts at the start of sept, so its not in the holidays as such. Plus the obvious factor of not every single school runs the exact same dates for holidays and the fact jagex english so wouldn't have an extremely clear reference of when american school holidays are falling. And the last time they gave us statistics it was clear the majority of the member base was atleast 16+ which makes targetting school age kids a bit of an odd move etc. I said North American school schedules because those coincided with the actual bonus XP weekend. The weekend was not positioned, for example, to line up with British Easter holidays. Although the North American market is the largest segment of their player base to target relating to these dates, there are probably other places in the world holding March break at the same time, I just don't know which places. In the age of the internet it's not hard for a company in England to find out when North American schools are holding March break; it's fairly coordinated. If I recall correctly they chose the weekend that fell at the end of some schools' breaks and the beginning of others; they caught the majority of schools anyway. As for the September date, I was surprised at first as well, since I has expected it to be held earlier in the summer. Only in hindsight did I realize that they were avoiding holding the weekend when some of those targeted kids might be away from home on various trips, etc. They instead held it early in the new school term to catch them early and (hopefully) keep them hooked on Runescape as a habit for the new school term. As for why they're targeting like this I can't say for sure. These schedules don't mean the same thing for me as their target market. I would guess that they chose the dates this way because it's one of the only large segments of their player base which has similar signicant dates in their schedules. I.E. what other spring date would be better for a larger number of players? If there's no clearly superior alternative, then March break seems to be a choice that works fairly well. The September date also works for university/college students, but I don't think there's any similarly good date in the spring.

I think there will probably be another bonus xp weekend. It's true that Jagex has already released Hati, but last year's weekend was held during March break to encourage large numbers of North American kids in school to renew their membership while they had time off. Given the recurrence just as school started back up in September, Jagex was clearly pleased with the results on their membership figures. If any already-released update diverts a bonus xp weekend in March, it will be the wilderness, not Hati. However, since it would be hard to predict the number of players who will re-join for a bonus xp weekend yet not for P2P wilderness combat, they'll likely hold another weekend as a test to find out, if nothing else. Edit: Definitely not true. The dates were very clearly selected to align with North American school schedules.

From what I understand, depending on the exact version played, odds range from around 1/9 to 1/6. So potentially if you see people offering, say, a 500k reward for a 100k entry fee it could be legit (or not). The players running the things can still profit on those types of figures. However, when like the OP saw, someone claims to be offering a BGS as a prize, it's most likely a scam. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and they're saying you'd have to pick correctly two times in a row to win, but otherwise it would be impossible for the running player to make a profit under those terms.

I was getting this last night, but it's gone now. I assume it's fixed.

This totally makes sense: previously one would grind combat skills to 40, buy armour, and going back to grinding combat. But with this superior non-grind method, you train combat skills to 40, breeze your way up to 85+ mining and 99 smithing to make your own armour, then get back to the harsh grind of raising combat skills above 40. Oh wait, that actually doesn't make any sense at all :P. If DIY is something you find enjoyable, that's cool. It may add a certain "realism" to Runescape play, which I think is a similar reason to why some people are enamoured with the idea of W2 Falador Park market coming back. But DIYing isn't necessary to rotate skill training; if anything it causes much more grinding overall. Certainly it results in more time taken to achieve the same levels experience and/or money. TL;DR: More fun: Possibly. Less grinding: Haha, not a chance.

The difference between humans eating chickens, and vampires and/or demons eating humans is sentience. Now, some moral principles do become more complex in a fictional world with multiple known sentient races, but basically our standard definition of murder should be extended to all sentient beings. Now let's look at an example. Goblins can eat people, or they can eat other types of food. As people are sentients, the goblins eating people should be opposed, and the goblins eating other food should be respected. HAM would be justified in combating the goblins just east of Lumbridge since we can see from the houses there that those goblins are killing sentient humans. On the other hand, when HAM attacks the peaceful Dorgeshuun, they are the ones in the wrong. As far as we know, most or all vampires kill and eat people. That should be opposed, since people are sentient. If vampires can coexist with humans without eating them, then we should reconsider. For example, if vampires could eat non-sentient food such as cows, this would be acceptable. Let's avoid getting into a debate about vegetarianism and at least agree that sentient lives should be prioritized over non-sentient lives, in the same way that vegetarians prioritize animal lives over plant lives. Alternatively to feeding on animals, perhaps a more equitable blood tithing system could be established where vampires act as the military force protecting a kingdom from invaders in return for controlled nourishment from the human citizens. Even if the current Drakan blood tithing system resulted in no deaths (not the case from what we've seen in quests), it would not be acceptable in its current form since it amounts to slavery. Those humans in Meiyerditch are enslaved and kept in squalor for fear of the vampires' food escaping. I can recognize that the vampires want to eat, but a better system can and should be constructed - if they had any interest in acting morally, which currently at least their leaders do not. Using reasoning such as this, it is actually fairly easy to construct a reasonable, and universal moral standard. Sure, it can be the case that vampires just care about eating, and not about humans' lives - but this is wrong. Whether or not the vampires realize it. Incidentally, this same reasoning makes nearly all player characters the most crazed psychopaths in Gielinor. For example, in my early levels I remember training on Varrock guards, etc. However, we'll have to gloss over this for the time being. This truth has no impact on the analysis of others which we can perform - to state otherwise is a common logical fallacy. Dhalak, a follower of Saradomin helped Zamorak without informing Saradomin of the situation. The obvious reason why he did not talk to Saradomin about the matter is that he assumed Saradomin would not agree with his intent. In the current day, Dahlak realizes the error of his ways, and Saradomin was never involved in this matter at all. Sorry, I could follow your argument about Saradomin, but this comes out of left field. Did you base this on anything other than the fact that a Runescape god of good, known to have opposed Zaros, would be inconvenient for your argument of Zaros not being evil? Okay, seriously. I can sort of see why people question whether Zaros is evil, since we haven't seen all of what he did when he was around, but I don't think anyone can doubt that Zamorak is evil. The first thing he did upon attaining his current powers was to try to kill and destroy everything that didn't do what he said, and some that did. He told his followers that if they killed or enslaved all the people currently living in various lands, he would let them act as regents over those lands. If he supports "true freedom", it is freedom from any kind of lawfulness and civilization, allowing (and encouraging!) people to kill whomever they like. If you think the above is not evil, then our definitions of evil are so vastly different that any further conversation becomes almost pointless. You can't debate whether or not a certain being (Zaros) is evil when the word means utterly different things to those discussing the matter. Also, if you think the above is not evil, you may be a sociopath. :wink: Of course you can claim Zaros is not evil if you define evil as being a label which can't be applied to anyone or anything. However, this is meaningless. I think just about everyone agrees that Hitler, for example, was evil. For the sake of this discussion let's agree to call a being evil if they predominantly perform evil acts, even if it is the acts that are evil and the being itself may not be intrinsically evil. Even if we define evil as a label that can't be applied to anyone or anything, it doesn't change our understanding of Hitler. It just means that to discuss him, we'll need to invent a new word to describe our consensus opinion of his acts rather than "evil". That's a waste of time, in my opinion - let's just use the word we've already got: evil. Following my earlier statements, murder of sentient beings is something that is fairly universally recognized as evil. Now, we know that Zaros readily employed known sociopathic murderers in order to wage war. Based upon the idea that murdering sentient beings is wrong, I would say that warfare, which entails killing sentient beings en masse, is also generally wrong. The real question is, were there some extenuating circumstances of which we are not aware? I would certainly argue that merely a desire for power over those being conquered is insufficient to morally justify warfare. On the other hand, a war of defence would likely be justified in the same way that self-defence is a valid defence against murder. The morality of war is certainly complex. However, warfare simply because you want to rule people you don't currently rule is wrong. It's unlikely that everyone taking part in such a war is evil, but someone planning and controlling such a war is. I don't think its reasonable to say that Zaros isn't evil, he simply employed known powerful, bloodthirsty sociopathic murderers to wage war upon and conquer all who didn't follow him. That's not evil, it's just being ambitious? Ambition is one thing, but killing your way to the top is another. If it turns out that there's some hidden lore here making Zaros the aggrieved party then I'll change my opinion of him. For example, maybe he was peacefully ruling Gielinor and it was all a utopia before the evil Saradomin and Armadyl decided to attack him in a reckless war of conquest, so he simply fought back for the sake of his people. However, I think we all know that this is hypothetical nonsense. Besides all of the lore already mentioned, try listening to the Runescape music track "Zaros Stirs" - it's obvious that Jagex is foreshadowing the ominous nature of Zaros' return. Also, look at some of the dialogue of another of Zaros' chief lieutenants, Nex: # Mortals, only death awaits you here # Release me and know despair There's a fairly obvious pattern here, and until new evidence arises the clear trend is that Zaros supports evil.

Again, I agree that some things can be subjective. However, when Zaros' army primarily consists of creatures that i.e. must eat people to survive (vampires), then it becomes difficult to argue that it's simply a conflict of geography. One potentially plausible way to reconcile these differing viewpoints would be if Zaros were the Runescape god of monsters. Then it would make sense that he would support those creatures who eat humans, while others like Saradomin oppose them.

Being evil is subjective* /thread ? *Any living being does w/e it feels right FOR ITSELF. If you somehow manage to be on the "winning" side (the side that benefits) you will view that being as good and vice versa. Even gods have those needs. They do what is best for them (in the case of Zammy - [cabbage] up Zaros and steel his powers) if you benefit from it you will view the deity as a good one. In other words the current population of runescape are the followers of the gods that were enemies of Zaros thus they see him as an evil deity. There are some moral issues that are subjective. There are also some that are not. Not all of morality is based upon what you feel like doing. As just one point, if Armadyl represents justice and Zaros is an enemy of Armadyl, then how does he manage to be unjust yet not evil? @Zaaps1: I'd like to repeat my earlier question inquiring just what you would use as a definition of evil? You obviously believe that going to war purely for the sake of conquest and power is not evil, which I find curious.

It's odd to me that everyone's saying "wahh they're messing up the lore".... because those doing the saying didn't understand the lore well enough to realize that this makes perfect sense... :lol: