Alphanos

I registered in '07, so I don't even come close to qualifying. However, in real life I know the players Adric Tg (account #786) and Waldo (#1476). They don't play anymore, though I've been trying to convince them to give it another shot with the return of the wildy. I've never had much interest in PKing, but that's what Waldo was mainly interested in.

[/hide] Of course, the theory saying he recorded the video, edited it, exported it, played it in fullscreen and recorded it with his camera is still possible. While I've never attempted to use Cheat Engine on Runescape (it would be pointless, except to produce fakes), I have enough knowledge of it to say that most of the things Svew showed could be faked using it. Bear in mind that this is all based upon the idea of Svew first recording things with an on-screen recorder, then playing it back and camming the playback. Example: Svew can make his bank show just about any icons/numbers he wants using Cheat Engine (though the items wouldn't be real). He can modify his cashpile to display as -2 coins. I suspect he'd need at least one real partyhat for when he equipped it and ran around, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cheat Engine could be used to trick the client into displaying and rendering a partyhat on your character's head, regardless of what the actual head slot item was. The big thing he's claiming proves it wasn't client side is the repeated cash withdrawal, but actually Cheat Engine could probably fake that too. How? Modify the client-side memory which parses/stores how much money you typed in that you want to withdraw. I.E. he types in "2000m" to withdraw, but Cheat Engine has locked that variable to 2000, so the server actually receives a message to withdraw only 2k from his cashpile - no problem. Then other Cheat Engine edits make that 2k look like 2B on his client-side screen. Similar for putting the offers into the GE - he types "1000M", but the actual request sent to the server is just 1k, and he edits it client side to show on his screen as if it was 2B. When he's trading player-to-player to purchase a partyhat, he could use the same trick if the other player was in on it, or he could be buying the partyhat with real cash of any amount, including a fair price. TLDR: With Cheat Engine running on the client side, just because you see him type in "2000M" on screen, that doesn't mean that's what the server is actually doing. Cheat Engine can intercept and modify the request after he's typed it, but before it reaches the server, so that it will only ask the server to do things that would actually work. Similarly, the info sent back from the server could be modified before rendering on the client screen.

BTW, just to link together some previous explanations: although a cashpile with -2 coins would not stay "stuck" as -2 even if you could withdraw large amounts from it, that is exactly the expected behaviour if he was using a client-side memory editor like Cheat Engine to make it look like he had -2 coins...

More importantly, even supposing it were possible through some obscure buffer overflow to get a cashpile with -2 coins in it, withdrawing 2B from that should result in -2,000,000,002.

Jagex's word on this matter is extremely suspect, especially since none of their actual programmers will be there at this time of day. However, as a programmer with at least general knowledge of Java and two's complement math, I'm even more skeptical of this video. It's true that if you could manage to get -2 coins, this could potentially produce very bizarre results unless Jagex had pre-emptively coded an awful lot of extra checks. However, supposing for the sake of argument that you could manage to get -2 coins, the most cash you should be able to generate is a single pile of max cash. If the video showed his pile of -2 coins becoming negative max cash, and he then had to get rid of it and re-get -2 coins to produce more, I'd be far more inclined to believe this video. But there's no logical reason why withdrawing 2B from -2 should leave -2 in his bank according to the way Runescape handles numbers -- it should leave -2,000,000,002 in his bank. Edit: Here's another good reason to suspect this video of being fake. His video shows 1318 banked Santa Hats, considerably more than even Chessy had. The GE buy limit on santas is 2/4 hours. So it would take 109+ days (3.5+ months) to purchase that many through the GE, and previous comments indicate this guy's said that he discovered the "glitch" ~2 weeks ago. Could he have bought all of the rares through player-to-player trade? Yes, he could have, but it would be no easy task to find 1318 santa hats for sale in such a short amount of time. Such a vast increase in demand should have caused santa prices to go through the roof. I'm assuming here that the guy's at least smart enough to use a disposable account to show off this "glitch". If he had somehow accumulated wealth greater than Chessy's prior to discovering the bug, and he was smart enough to discover a bug of that magnitude, there's no way he'd show off the bug on his main account which he hardcore merched with for years. That would be monstrously dumb. TLDR: Negative cash should behave very differently if it were possible to get, and also he has far too many santa hats to have bought in the ~2 weeks this "glitch" has supposedly been in-use for. Edit 2: Just checked at world 2, and santa prices seem fairly normal. I'll admit, when I first saw this I was worried, but the more I think it through the more I'm convinced it can't be real.

Fortunately for you, you've been careful with your email address. This is a good thing :).

In some ways, the value of Runescape items can be compared to that of real-life contraband, such as illegal drugs. It's against the rules (laws) to trade such items, and if the authorities confiscate those items there's nothing you can do. However, it would be foolish to say that the items "have no value". Obviously they do, or else there would be no demand for a black market trading such things. Again, I am against RWT, but I think it's ludicrous that so many people are saying "Oh well, it's just a game, those pixels she spent thousands of hours acquiring have no value anyway" :rolleyes:.

Having in the past been involved with forum administration a couple of times for things unrelated to Runescape, I recognize that this will sound very unappealing to _any_ forum administration team. Nevertheless, I think it is a good idea. Obviously it would be a complex situation that would require a lot of new policies to deal with. As just one example, TIF must enforce Jagex rules to maintain its fansite status, yet many posters here at TIF seem to have a very strong desire to tell others about their in-game rulebreaking (?). So policies would have to be carefully crafted, or things like this could result in a clash where sympathetic forum members know that someone broke the rules, yet vote that they didn't in order to achieve a jury nullification. I doubt this concept will get much traction, but so long as it was implemented carefully to avoid situations like the above, I think it would be a very wise move.

Tbh I have no respect for a level 3 skiller who gets 99 or 120 or 200m dg for that matter. Pretty much leeching the whole floor. Yes they cut resources or pots, but anyone can do that takes 30 seconds. A person needs to be able to pull the weight in a dg. You've obviously never saw Magnus DG then. All those small things added together can speed the floor up so much. Saves the killers having to do anything. Even just that 30 seconds, that might save 20 seconds per GD. As well as that, his level 3 combat lowers the monsters combat within the Dungeon. Magnus does merchant, and it is possible he might be doing 200m Fm after 200m Thiev. here is a video that show how he train it, i thought he does the thing, that a skiller must do, when a maxed combat guy doing this, it's just stupid i think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGFZAi9J0Wc&feature=feedu I hate lvl 3's all they do is leech/bot [/hide] they must leech for dg, what else? what can they do? it's not a easy life as skiller You make it sound like skillers are disadvantaged players who have no other option. But that's not the case - they could train combat like everyone else so that they don't slow others' play. Obviously most don't want to do this, I'm simply pointing out that they're not "forced" into leeching; they're making a choice that remaining a skiller is more important to them than being considerate of other players.

This was one idea we looked at previously on the thread about technical solutions for bots. There are a number of different ways such a thing could be done with varying short-term effectiveness, but none of those methods would be any long-term solution. Eventually the bot writers would change from hard-coding ID numbers to parsing out the ones they want to use from particular offsets in the client code. BTW, I think we did end up with a fairly decent long-term technical solution to bots, it's just that this particular idea didn't end up being the one.

Just a follow-up on those "JCoins", seen earlier. Found this on the Jagex site: What are JCoins? JCoins are the new virtual currency from Jagex. At the present time, JCoins can only be spent on WoLCash and to repay owed debts.

While I would love this, I also recognize how ginormous a project it would be. They'd really have to go over every quest from scratch to check for bazillions of game-breaking bugs. For example, in many quests there are situations where you can't progress further due to missing item X, and once you've gone through various convoluted steps to find it you can move forward. If you have item X to begin with, and skip half the quest, who can guess what will break?

#-o :angry: :thumbdown: Those had better be for their other, non-Runescape games :(.

I agree with this. I can't say i'm proud of or that I can defend every action we have made the past few days. I don't think the other party can do it either. In my view, we made lot's of mistakes. Not everyone will agree with me i'm sure - be it users, staff, admins, but I feel we made mistakes and it breaks my heart - I can't say I'm proud to be an administrator at this moment. I've made my entire career into trying to help make a fair tip.it, ran by the users, for the users. Tonight I'll be honest, i've spent time reflecting wondering if I messed up, if I failed myself. I'm just a user with a red rank, I'm not god, I can't remove warnings and undue bans myself at the drop of a hat, but i'm working on it, i'm trying to get it done, if it's the last thing I do,. and although it may sound hollow, I hope the disgruntled parties work with me here at solving this. ~Das I hope everyone recognizes that you're trying to extend an olive branch here. I'm just some random guy, but I for one wish there could just be a rollback of the past week or so on this forum. The main reason I come here is to get up-to-date and/or newly discovered information which can't be centrally located on something like the RS Wiki. If a large group of the efficiency crew breaks off from TIF, I'll have to get information from there. At the same time, there's basically zero chance that everyone would migrate, so I would also have to come here. I suspect many others feel the same way, but splitting information between two forums can only be wasteful. It would take a long time for the community to stabilize sufficiently that most needs could be served by only one of the two forums. I understand that this whole situation puts the TIF admins in a tight spot for all sorts of reasons. On some level, there must be a desire to rescind some of those bans to recover the situation. At the same time there are some large egos among those leaving, and the last thing they need is to think that they're immune from following the rules. I don't envy you, trying to figure out how to proceed from here....

Even with summoning potion prices being fairly high at the moment, each dose still lets you bank ashes worth around 4x its cost.

It's been mentioned in passing, but just to state outright, you should fill your yak with a mix of prayer and summoning potions, assuming you plan to yak the ashes to your bank. If you have tons of cash from merchanting and/or boss hunting maybe you'll want to skip taking the ashes, since it will slow your experience rates, but it should be well over a million an hour (not counting the cost of the cannonballs). Not the best available as a targeted moneymaker, but as a side benefit to your real purpose it's not bad. A dose of summoning potion restores about 1.5 winter storage scrolls worth of special, so using a full summoning potion + 6 scrolls to bank 6 ashes earns you around 20k. Of course, due to natural restore rate, you're not actually paying a sixth of a summoning potion for every scroll you yak home. The exact ratio of prayer to summoning potions will vary somewhat depending on your final equipment layout, but last time I cannon-slew some black demons, I used more summoning than prayer potions. As previously stated, the cannon's accuracy is based on whichever equipment accuracy bonus is your highest. If you'll be using a whip instead of a chaotic rapier, the dragon defender's combined accuracy bonus for both your melee and cannon hits could outweigh the +6 strength you'd be getting from going with the deflector. I haven't previously seen DPS calculations that take a melee + cannon combination into account, but perhaps someone around here has them?

This I agree with, in it's logic & sense. So your reasoning is "If you can't beat them, join them" ? Let's set aside the moral/ethical issues for the moment and look at this purely from an economic perspective. If Jagex started to offer in-game cash for real-life cash, they would put themselves in direct competition with existing RWT groups. Once RWT becomes "legitimized", lots of people who would never have considered it before would be curious about these other groups and check them out, wanting the best deal. Thus Jagex would be forced to price-match with pre-existing RWT groups. I would guess that the price, both "officlal" and black-market, would fall to somewhere around $0.10 - $0.20 per million coins. This would obviously cause rampant in-game inflation, devaluing vast swaths of money-making methods. In an effort to combat this, Jagex could offer to directly sell not just in-game coins for real-life cash, but also the actual items that players are seeking. However, this introduces all sorts of new and interesting problems. For one, it would even further devalue many high-level money-making methods, as players could simply buy spirit shields / Nex gear / etc without having to go to the boss hunters. Further, in order for direct item offers to be at all effective in combating inflation, Jagex would have to tie item prices to floating rates converted from current grand exchange values. This now introduces a whole new can of worms as in-game merchanting and price manipulation can suddenly affect official prices of things in real-life cash. Yet another implication is that if in-game items now have official values in real-life cash, Jagex could run into a lot more legal trouble when they destroy hundreds of thousands of dollars of stolen items, rather than returning them. The only real way to avoid the above would be for all microtransaction-related items to be entirely separate from regular in-game items, and for no direct cash purchase to be possible. However, this means that Jagex would be seen as "legitimizing" RWT without actually providing any alternative to existing RWT groups for players trying to purchase Bandos/Furies/etc. Looking into the long term, such a change by Jagex would have very far-reaching ramifications. I think the results would be fairly disastrous.

I think there are both groups who seek to minimize the amount of in-game time spent on a goal, and groups who seek to minimize the player effort spent on a goal. I'm closer to the latter. For example, barbarian fishing is undoubtedly faster experience than monkfish. However, since it requires constant attention, I prefer monkfishing which can be done at the same time as other things like reading, watching TV, etc. Barbarian fishing is more efficient in all Runescape numerical calculation senses of the term, but monkfishing could be considered more efficient in terms of experience gained per unit of attention.

To be honest -- I've usually chosen "fun" over efficient in the past. That said -- I'm game to give "efficiency" a try. Wait! Does this mean I've gone over to the dark side? :blink: I'm not familiar with your fun/efficiency/etc history, so this isn't directed specifically at you. But perhaps the most important concept to learn for anyone interested in efficient play is that of opportunity cost. A simple way to think of opportunity cost is the difference between what you "save" with a method of training, versus how much you could earn in the same amount of time if you were dedicated to moneymaking. Let me give an example. Based on current market mid prices, training prayer at a POH altar costs 23.16 gold per experience using dragon bones, or 16.07 gold per experience using babydragon bones. Thus many people train using babydragon bones because it is "cheaper". However, if your goal is to gain 1 million prayer experience, at 231,840 experience per hour via dragon bones it will take 4.31 hours, and at 96,600 experience per hour via babydragon bones it will take 10.35 hours. Thus even though using dragon bones will cost 23.16M vs 16.07M, 7M more, training using dragon bones is much cheaper for almost any player planning to spend that much on prayer experience. This is because although you are paying 7M more, you're also saving 6 hours. So long as you can make more than 1.17M/hr using other methods, you're better off using dragon bones - this is not even counting any experience you may earn while moneymaking, which may also be valuable. In fact, if you can earn more than 2.9M/hr, it's actually even cheaper to train using frost dragon bones. TLDR: More expensive training methods often save you loads of money, so long as you can make money faster than the difference in training costs.

Pretty hard to find such good info all consolidated into one place, and usually such collections focus on the "buyable" skills. Still, the closest things I can think of were Grimy's spreadsheets, now removed from TIF and gone who knows where, and the still-existing "Calculators" page on the RS wiki.

Yes, what was wrong with that? Fallador park + (fansite) forums to trade worked very well! As a player dating back to 2002, my opinion is that the GE works MUCH better. Maybe a little bit of regulation isn't a bad thing, but when i can cut 500 diamonds in 10 minutes, and then have to wait another 230 minutes before I can buy more. It becomes a pain in the ass. These limits are set to combat price manipulation, not hinder the use of the GE for normal players. In terms of you're items falling in price, that's economics bro. Get use to it, as you'll find it happens to ALMOST everything you buy in real life. In real life if I'm on holiday for half a month prices don't drop by 50%.. Maybe they do at the dow jones, however there's a lot betweenme & the people there. Goverments protect people from hyper inflation/deflation, markets are closed if there's a panic thanks to a certain unforeseen event. Companies can't just change consumer prices: once they advertise with a price they have to keep it at that price. I have no problem with changing prices: I do have a problem when the prices change so fast & quickly as in runescape! [/hide] Markets get closed if there are major, widespread economic events which are expected to cause a majority of stocks to fall by like 25% in an hour or two. I doubt this has ever happened in Runescape, though it's true that I doubt Jagex would do anything if it did. However, it's entirely possible for a real-life stock to lose half its value in only a couple of weeks without watching. Not common, but ... it depends on market factors. Although you haven't provided many details, I gather that you've lost some substantial portion of your in-game wealth. I do sympathize, but there's no reason to believe anything would have been different without the grand exchange. You're incorrect in believing that the grand exchange causes or increases price drops.

Let me fix that for you. It's true that a fresh account doesn't start off rich. However, all that is required to make money in this game is to do some research into good money-making methods, and invest some time into carrying out those methods. Anyone who believes that the pre-existing rich have a monopoly on making money is mistaken. I paid for skills like herblore and prayer primarily from herb farming, fletching, and magic - all in excess of 1M/hr. Maybe one day I'll get around to boss hunting. If Jagex let people buy in-game items for real-life cash, that is one of the few things that would make me seriously consider permanently quitting Runescape. I hope they never do such a thing.

hopefully, still cant log in RS is so messed up----I swear I blame all this on free trade--it brought back all the scammers and bots, I cant belive most ppl wanted this--i know i didn't What are you talking about? I don't like scammers either, but even if they had the capability to crash Runescape (they don't), it would hurt them as much as anyone. Runescape has most likely crashed due to a problem with the clan updates being released tomorrow.

Yes, what was wrong with that? Fallador park + (fansite) forums to trade worked very well! Well, since it would waste an awful lot of time on both the buyers' and sellers' parts, there would really have to be overwhelmingly good cause to revert back from the grand exchange. You used an example of items falling or rising by hundreds of thousands very quickly, by which you meant in one day. I can tell you firsthand from hanging around in world 2 that you're better off with the grand exchange's system where people don't see the price changes being announced in real time. It's common in world 2 for some items to change price by millions, even tens of millions within an hour's time. Perhaps you could elaborate as to how the elimination of the grand exchange, and a return to decentralized trade, would be an improvement? What specific benefits do you hope to achieve?

Ok, what do you propose? A return to Falador park?