Alphanos

You don't understand economics. Here are just a few of the major reasons for whips' fall in price: 1) As more players get Chaotic weaponry, fewer players use whips. 2) As more players level Slayer, more whips are dropped. 3) Due to PvP changes with the re-release of the wilderness, whips lost in PvP are not longer destroyed. Instead they are sold by the victor on the grand exchange. ***** So in summary, demand has dropped, supply has risen, and the main gameplay mechanic that previously kept the supply artificially lowered has been removed. Thus whips are returning to prices similar to, or lower than, the prices they were at prior to the removal of the wilderness. Whatever price they stabilize at will be lower than 2007/2008 prices due to chaotics. As for all of the price fluctuations, I have a secret to tell you. In the past, you could leave an offer in for a long time, unfulfilled, due to everyone being stuck to buying/selling within the same limits. Although it's true that now people can buy/sell much faster if they go outside those limits, you can still do what you used to and leave an offer in, unfulfilled, within the 5% margin until eventually it completes :). Barring long-term trends like the fall of whips, it shouldn't take much, if any, longer than it used to.

Since I saw no newspost, I assumed there would be no update today. But maybe they're trying to update some of the backend systems, and broke them. An update of the type they're doing, with core ramifications to all player accounts, could certainly have effects major enough to knock out the login systems, etc.

Your post is pretty cynical. If I was online at the time of the corp glitch and somebody told me that Corp dropped sigils more frequently now if you wore a ring of wealth, or even told me that the ring of wealth bonus was implemented to stack in clans, I might have gone. However, if somebody told me it was glitched I would not have gone, and if I did go and started seeing back-to-back drops, I would have left after either 3 or 4. Two could be a freak coincidence, even 3 an incredible, unbelievable streak of luck, but any more than that is obviously glitched and I wouldn't knowingly participate in a glitch like that. It's simply not fair. I think that bug abuse, scamming, luring, etc should all result in a minimum of a temporary mute and/or ban, and if it were feasible the loss of any ill-gotten gains. Game or not, people spend real time getting their items/cash; if someone can earn $10 per hour in real life, and 1 million per hour in Runescape, then morally speaking scamming them out of 1 million Runescape coins is analogous to scamming them out of $10. The exact rates don't matter, the point is that virtual or not, you're essentially stealing the time that person used to acquire the money.

I've been wondering the same thing, but here's my theory. The greatest demand for divines is pro-level boss hunting. Many of those players now go to Nex. As strategies are refined and more pernix tops enter the market, many of those players are switching from divines to void deflector with pernix top. That's my best guess.

Probably just a fluke. Last time I did an 84 minute trip of Draconic-Common, I got 6 erzille seeds, 6 argway seeds, 5 ugune seeds, 4 shengo seeds, and 3 samaden seeds. Over the longer term, I currently have roughly equal numbers of argway, ugune, and shengo (unf) potions, with more erzille and fewer samaden. That said, I believe that draconics drop seeds less often than commons do. If your main goal is juju farming potions, rather than hunter experience, you might have better luck skipping the draconics.

This is assuming that people are buying at the same price. With the removal of price limits, there's no "max" price that lots of people would keep trying to buy at for weeks, like used to be the case with sigils, etc. Edit: Or are you saying that the sellers should not get the best deal for their goods?

It would be a lot more complicated, but I think that purchase limits should exist in a modified form. Like the above, it should be based partly upon the quantity of the item traded, but it should also be based upon how far from the guide price you offer to purchase at. Using a formula like the above based purely upon the number of the item traded, it would only take a clan of 50 wealthy players to, for example, buy out ALL pure essence. However, if purchase limits are imposed based upon how far above the guide price you're asking to purchase at, the market could naturally regulate. For example, if you're purchasing at up to 105% of the guide price, you can buy up to 0.5% of the market availability of that item, requiring 50 wealthy players to buy out at that baseline price. However, if you want to purchase at 110% of the guide price, you can only purchase up to 0.25% of the market availability of the item, requiring 100 players to buy-out at that price, etc. So once you hit around 120% of the guide price with 400 players required, there's still a "ceiling" on the buyout, even for large clans, such that normal market activity can proceed at, say, 125% of the guide price, and no long-term buyouts would ever be practical. The exact numbers would probably require a lot of refinement, and perhaps with some further thought someone can come up with a way to also mitigate price manipulation from buyout techniques. Even a clan-induced price rise of 5% on an item is undesirable. Edit: Beyond the ideal scenario I'm envisioning, even just fixing a few of the more glaring purchase limits would be nice, like battlestaves, iron/steel platebodies, etc.

Since many skills are not possible to easily train while doing other things (i.e. Hunter, Runecrafting, Agility, etc), I'm fine with getting somewhat lower experience while mining in order to be able to do other things simultaneously. Despite your previous post, I doubt many would agree with you that mousekey-dropping is more AFK than banking ;).

While clan chats may have reduced public chat, I certainly don't think they reduced the social aspect of the game; just the opposite. Now in addition to having the option to chat with people who happen to be training at the same place you are, you can also chat with a group of friends who you have things in common with. This is certainly far more versatile than private messaging. Unless I'm training in a highly click-intensive skill like hunter, runecrafting, etc, I'm usually able to chat with people in my clan, no matter where I am. That makes the game a lot more social in my opinion.

I saw one that really baffled me. It made a line of fires, then ran back to re-start on top of its own line! Of course it couldn't, so it stepped one square to the west, paused, stepped another square to the west.... until it finally reached an empty square. It did this several times while I was training to 92 firemaking in the same area. Bad enough the ones that get messed up from your fires, but bots that mess up from their own...?

Considering all the outcry about that glitch, an awful lot of players seem to think it affects them. It may not have taken items away from anyone, but besides the general unfairness, it contributed to the price depreciation of those shields.

By this reasoning, why not just report everyone, and get everyone processed by the anti-macro system? Unless reporting for botting is purely a psychological placebo for the reporter, I think it's clear that's unreasonable.

Edit: Previous post content obsolete.

Because that approach works so well in real life, right? http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=15743 I'm obviously not comparing murder to botting, but the theme of authority figures ignoring reports from the public is still there. Your example is of a single legitimate call to police, to report a crime in progress. The authorities are clearly in the wrong there. However, the Runescape situation is different. A more appropriate analogy would be a person who, in real life, calls the police 100 times in a single day to report that crimes are being committed in various houses along a street, because when he rings the doorbell nobody answers. Obviously they must be up to something nefarious, right? I think that the police would stop listening to this person long before 100 ridiculous reports, if they didn't simply arrest him outright.

You know what the one big problem was with Runescape PvP until now? It was that one corner of the combat triangle was way, way overpowered -- magic. Good thing they've now nerfed it to fix the problem. /sarcasm :rolleyes:

Someone who "follows the crowd" at LRC and doesn't talk isn't anywhere close to being reasonable criteria for reporting as a botter. All normal players do those things! You may think that dying is cause to show that somebody is a bot, but when I mine while watching TV, I can occasionally take 200-300 damage in total before I notice and move away. For some low-level skillers, that's more than enough to kill them. You are the reason that Jagex ignores so many reports. It's almost impossible for them to filter out the garbage reports from the good ones. Frankly, your ability to report for botting should be removed from your report abuse menu.

At times I've thought idly about botting, but never seriously. If this was a single player game, I would prefer to cut short the grinding - I don't think anyone really likes that. But since it's multiplayer, that would wouldn't be fair to all of the other players, so I couldn't do that. The issue of being caught/hacked/punishment is to me a peripheral issue; even uncaught, it would be hurting others. Something I've thought about more seriously is that as a programmer, it sounds like it would be an interesting challenge to write a bot, just for fun. I'm fairly curious about how they work, etc. If it was only done for the sake of the challenge, wasn't ever distributed, wasn't used to reach high levels (i.e. only tested with temporary, disposable accounts), and wasn't used to collect and sell things, then I don't think there would be a moral problem. However, in this case I wouldn't attempt it because Jagex could potentially link such testing/activity with my actual account by IP address.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their information on this matter, and report some further findings. As already stated, you cannot store juju potions in a yak. I performed two tests, both completed using 6 juju mining potions for a period of 2 hours each. In both cases, I used a dragon pickaxe, a penance horn, and varrock armour, and I banked ores in the deposit box when my inventory filled. For the first test, I summoned a lava titan and brought a spare lava titan pouch; I earned 259,790 mining experience for an average of 130k/hr. For the second test, I brought a yak filled with mining urns, as well as a second yak pouch and the earth runes needed to activate them; I earned 230,395 mining experience for an average of 115k/hr. Juju mining potions activate frequently and are always worthwhile. If given the choice between a lava titan and a yak filled with urns, the lava titan performs substantially better. It is possible this could reverse at higher mining levels, when the lava titan's boost is less important. I watched TV while mining, but if one is not concerned with semi-AFK play, then obviously using the combination of juju potions, a lava titan, and urns will provide the most benefit. It is important to note that while using a penance horn, since normal mining experience is doubled, percentage-wise urns provide a 10% experience bonus rather than 20%. I hope this will be of help to others in the future :).

If you cheat in solitaire, or any single-player game, I don't believe that's relevant to the moral discussion. Your actions affect nobody other than yourself. If you cheat in poker, you're a jerk. Runescape is the same. For all those saying "It's just a game" --- cheating in a game with other people makes you a jerk. Yes, that does say something about the way you make decisions generally.

Draconics would probably be slower at <80 hunter, due to the need to constantly re-boost. I think that if you use the spot I show above though, you should be able to get experience rates very similar to what you're getting with Igneous-Carrion. I expected to fail them a fair bit too, but actually the success rate was very high at level 80 hunter.

Bake Pie (Summer Pies)>Ivy>Rocktails. 0.83>0.54>0.42 the effciency rates of their 'grinding' equivalents. Based upon Wines,Pines and Purple Sweet Barb,for each of the respective skills. Note: Thats assuming you don't have cooking brawlers to use with wines and you don't value magic exp from pies. Also presume your using Dragon Hatchet instead of Adze at Pines. However Pies may not be as 'AFK'-able as Rocktails and even less so when it comes to Ivy,they do still allow for 45 seconds of down time,exluding banking. The magic exp (from pies) holds some value too, since if I recall correctly Lrc(superheating the ores on the road to 200m mining) doesn't quite get you 200m magic. Even a top player has to AFK(better than hitting that logout button). :thumbsup: I wouldn't quite count something where you have to take out ~75 inventories of items per hour AFK :P Though yes that's pretty good. Ivy is perfect: 5 minute click window, never have to bank, and you can have sounds on in the background to let you know when attention is required. Come to think of it, can anyone add more activities to this list? If you're only mining at the LRC, and not dropping/superheating/etc, it can be more AFK than cooking, though less than ivy.

There's a certain amount of randomness involved, but I have mine set to 9 maple logs, and 6 coal. I believe coal is the best non-varying producer, and 9 maple log workers reportedly produces the same number of bird nests as 10. Depending on the seeds you get, it's possible for this to result in either more or less than some other options, but overall it's quite good. The Runescape wiki has an excellent calculator for the different Kingdom options which can be helpful.

On July 9, 2010, RuneTrack shows me as having 0 experience. On July 10, 2010, RuneTrack shows me as having a total level of 1981. I think this says more about RuneTrack than it does about me. Now that the troll was successful in diverting us into irrelevant discussion, let's try to get back on-topic.

Please go away, troll. OT: By using the streaming video idea only for randoms, the issue of low bandwidth should be possible to address. Jagex could make new randoms which are difficult to computationally solve, yet still require very little bandwidth to stream. These randoms could be less graphically intensive than standard Runescape. Normally, the idea of replacing all current randoms wouldn't be something I would suggest, but in this case it seems like it could result in the permanent eradication of all bots. It's feasible to spend a decent amount of development time on such a large payoff. As for the specific random mentioned above, this is an excellent example of something which would be almost impossible for bots to solve under the idea of a streaming video engine mode. The idea itself could be tweaked to account for poor vision, but honestly regular Runescape is fairly vision-intensive, so there's only so much that can be done. If Jagex developed half a dozen ideas such as this, and implemented them alongside a streaming video engine mode for random events, bots could actually be a thing of the past. Please post with refinements/problems/etc to this idea, but unless something else comes up, it's looking like this thread has indeed come up with a permanent technological solution to bots.

This Rune Wiki Page should have what you want, and since it's just numbers the wiki should be pretty accurate. Wow that's really surprising. I didn't expect so many people with 99 farming - is it really that easy? Also surprised at mining - didn't think it would be that low. I wouldn't be surprised if someone reading this thread trolled the wiki due to the above emphasized statement. Considering that my 98 farming puts me, at the time of writing, in the 14k-th rank range, I knew right away the wiki's 70k 99 farmers figure was a troll.