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Trying to defuse the two weeks of wrist slashing that talking about relationships on the internet invariably invokes in all concerned parties.

So that's why Mather was falling for you. Lol, you choob, its cuz she is liek a girl...on the internet.

Sigh...People have such terrible lives.

Also: http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2884&g2_serialNumber=1 http://www.hmsfalcon.com/Gallery/Gallery7/high/letter/letter.jpg http://www.knibbs-family.org/Certifs/mati1850o.htm

Right then.... http://www.worldcat.org/title/report-to-the-right-honorable-the-master-of-the-rolls-upon-the-carte-and-carew-papers-in-the-bodleian-and-lambeth-libraries/oclc/681100548?title=&detail=&page=frame&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcatalog.hathitrust.org%2Fapi%2Fvolumes%2Foclc%2F4972258.html%26checksum%3D952b181ddf3d52a8b3dc97c0566e19cf&linktype=digitalObject Document I found, it has nothing to do with shipping, but government documents looks generally the same. Also: http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=su%3AManuscripts+Great+Britain+Catalogs.&qt=hot_subject Worldcat is probably your best bet, though there are a list of databases avalible here: http://primo.aber.ac.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?vid=ABERU_VU1&reset_config=true Just go to A-Z of databases.

Hang on Earth, I think I have something for you (It helps to know you are looking for reference material rather than a database of information)

I was mainly pointing out the sheer stupidity of this discussion.

Sigh...lets just point out that we are debating that Mather doesn't look like a peice of crap, while Mather is arguing that he does.

Light brown... Olive Brown... Maybe I would just post a picture of your face from your avatar....

HAIL CAESAR! :salute: How're things on your end Dusty? Having fun and not dying from lung cancer, I hope! Hehe, HAIL THE MIGHTY CAESAR! Indeed, not dead yet! :D I'm taking Latin in school now, did you know that Caesar essentially means 'hairy' due to its word root? Also, there were something like twelve different names for Roman boys, along with feminine forms. Hence they had two other names, but especially in the same family you would get the same name over and over and over again. The girls only got just the one name, though, and to increase the confusion all the girls born under the same parents would traditionally receive the exact same name. Overall, Latin naming systems really really sucked, especially, I imagine, if you were a judicial worker or messenger. Indeed. But it gets a bit interesting later on when you get other culture's romanized names, such as Trajan and Hadrian. We already have the slaves named Thressa and Syra and such. The slaves all get the coolest names. Damned slaves, they always get the best things.

I think that is due to lighting (The model is actually directly lined up)

(Shamelessly shows off) :thumbsup: I am not entirely sure what it is, I am tempted to say short sword, but I don't have a vast knowledge of swords so...

Well, who are we to disagree with Mather's mind? Send us a postcard if you survive. Point is, Mather, is that if you have a strong urge to do something then you should do it. You should obviously weigh the consequences, but ultimately it is your choice. No one else makes the choice for you, and no one else contributes to your decision making. People may contribute to the evidence, but thats it...Its your responsibility to disseminate useful and unuseful evidence if you are going to act on it. Whatever the case I think we can more or less say, now, that the Tavern's Sympathy is running dry.

Nah, apparently he neck-kneed a bluebelt in Karate and took it from him.

Can I just point out...again...That the move is pure showboating. If it was practical someone else would have thought of it before now...after all, they use 'Knee to face' often enough...'Knee to neck' isn't massively different. Added to that, again, its killing someone...killing people is not useful. So the practicality of the tenously possible, though vastly inefficent, move is questionable.

Go into the light :rolleyes:

Piffle and tish...Look at Nex...Would anyone other than a hero walk(or fly) into a situation which he was totally unable to win in? Then, not only kill a Griffon, but also kill a Griffon while unconscience! Come on Jen, get out your Neon Whip and join the fight, cause you gotta Strong and you gotta be fast and you gotta be fresh from the fight. *Hums a tune* Need a hero, nah nah nah, holding out for a hero for the end of the night, do, do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f_HsjpSVaI Zala on the drums, Kazi on the keyboard, Jen on the whip and the Griffon backing singers...Its D-Factor. :rolleyes: As for me killing Griffons....I don't see the immediate need to slaughter animals defending their homes...We should probably talk to the Prince before hunting on his land anyway...they will probably be the Royal Griffons or something. (Fire the plot harpoons!)

Thats amazing. Using stick figures you have managed to disregard several valid points and instead focus on the technical issue that it IS possible. I know it IS technically possible. That is not the issue. The issue is the technical possibility is very small in the majority of circumstances. Ultimately, it requires them to be standing there, not doing anything, and you to be standing there, not doing anything...and then you suddenly grab hold of their head (I assume you are actually grabbing hold of their hair...in which case Wigs?) and knee them in the neck. Killing someone who is unaware, unprepared and unarmed is not difficult...Humans are fragile creatures, our survival relies on the fact that we operate in groups, we have intelligence and we make tools. All in all, as with numerous other arguments, there is a narrow 'Goldilocks' zone in which you are right. To you, the Narrow Goldilocks Zone streches as far as the eye can see. To me, and everyone else, the NGZ is about half an inch in a mile. Due to me misreading the argument I came up with some satire: [hide] Wax, Snot, Saliva. Also, small hole, small hole, teeth. You don't have ears, nose or mouth at the back of the head...Unless Norwegians have some freakish antomy I am unaware of... So...lets assume that they are standing there. And you are standing there. Within Arms length. Doing nothing. And for no explicable reason you grab hold of the nose on the back of their head and ram your knee into their throat. Congrats, you have managed to kill an unarmed, undefended and unaware freak. Why you didn't punch them in the neck is fairly beyond me, but yeah, you have successfully killed someone, well done. Now...if only there was someway that was useful in a role other than being a serial killer of Norwegians freaks...Ethnic Cleansing perhaps? Maybe the Norwegian Nose on the the back of the head is a more serious problem than I first suspected? Though I am not sure how applicable it would be cause surely word of your genocidal tendancy would get around pretty fast...You would have to be at some sort of a convention for Norwegian Freaks and then kill them and hide their bodies...which seems very difficult in my opinion. Though it could be that you gassed the Norwegians with mouths on the back of their head, and bombed the Norwegians with eats on the back of their heads, and your violent video game tendancies has made you try to finish off the last group on hard mode? Surely the Norwegian Freaks wouldn't fall for the 'Come to the Gassed and Bombed out Convention Center, we promise we won't attempt to kill you.' line. :rolleyes: [/hide]

Actually has no relation to the current situation, it is purely concerned with future events =P But yeah...if I had had more time I would have dealt with the situation differently...Such as making it clear I wanted the carriage to turn up about noon on the next day, so you arrived just before the party started, so there was no 'Must run back through the griffon/dragon nest'. And yes, I accept that I have lost some of the trust placed in me. I am sorry for that and hope that people will see that whenever I mislead them it is for their good, and the good of the party(Huzzah Benevolent Dictator). I think the easiest way to think about this is that people are entitled to disagree/mislead the party on matters they feel strongly about, provided they only do it occassionally...and they should be accountable for anything that they directly spawn.* *So, if the Manor on the other side of the Island had deployed the guard when they saw you approaching, or you had been attacked by bandits on the way there...then that would be something I would be accountable for...things that you had no chance of avoiding, basically. If you subsequently got into trouble through your own actions then I am not accountable. But yeah, you can quote me on that if anyone else does something like this.

Instead of reaching out and pulling once you have a good hold, what you do is your reach out and pull when you have a poor hold. Yeah...Linguistic seperation doesn't really work, fact is your reach out and grab ahold of their head. In the first instance you are assuming they are merely standing there, doing nothing, and then you grab them by the head and break their neck. In the second instance you assume they don't, in one swift movement, whip out their knife and slice from your stomach to your head in a smooth motion. In the third instance, imagine someone grabs you by the head...first responce? You grab their elbows. In the forth instance, If you have had any training you know that the knee to the face is likely coming next so instead of elbows, you move your hands to cover your face, and thus protecting the neck. In the fifth instance...Killing someone through the use of martial arts is fundermentally foolish. The majority of people who you 'need' to kill will carry a weapon. The minority will probably be trying to mug you or something, and you don't 'need' to kill them...indeed killing them will likely send you to jail. 'Well, it happened like this. He came up to me and said 'Give me your wallet' so I grabbed hold of his head and broke his neck.' If he already had his knife or gun drawn then 1-1.5 seconds is ample time to kill you, and if they don't, why are you killing them? Surely if you know how to kill them then you know how to incapacitate them. And 'knee to the neck' doesn't really have any capacity to 'knock someone out' it is designed to kill people...so you can't claim you were delivering a measured responce...you set out to kill someone. In the sixth instance...Assuming the person was attempting to 'get free' Their arms would come up and onto your chest to push you away...blocking the knee. Alternatively their would turn their head and your sloppy hold would come loose. In the seventh instance, you aren't taking height, weight or any other variables into consideration. You can practice on someone until you can do it fast as possible...you do it on someone half an inch taller and you end up kneeing them in the chin (Potentially still killing them, but not neccessarily). A heavier person may have greater balance control (odd but true) and thus when you try to move their head they resist more, and the timing in the manauver sees you missing their head entirely. The entire dynamic of the move is 'Stand still while I kill you.' I am not saying it CAN'T work, I am saying that it is far from perfect, and has very limited use. ...Knowing how to disarm someone with 1 limb is probably much more useful than knowing how to kill someone using 3 of your 4 limbs...

Ok. In pure metagame (because, unless the boat sinks or explodes or something, you should see it...and to bypass the 'There is a note on your bed 'OMG ITS AN EXPLOSIVE RUNE FROM PHSYCO ARCHI' ') I have left Caliber, Martel, Kazi and Cathern notes in their rooms. The information is not overly secretive, its more of an 'If I die, here is what is going on, thus far'...Also saves from group conversations that I am against on principle. I have no problem with you reading it whenever. (I have no specific problem with Retech or Resistance reading it, but my character doesn't consider them part of the crew, and Kiara has been informed during the course of my activities) Wyvern has the details so it is ultimately up to him...just removing the burden of remembering trivia from his extensive list of responsibilites...Please don't annoy him by going 'I look into my room, what do I see.'

Wouldn't hitting them in the head work much more effectively? Humans aren't exactly the most resiliant animals...we are fairly puny in most respects. As to it being the 'perfect' kill move...Kinda leaves them quite a number of opportunities to attack you: Both of your arms are extended towards their face, leaving your sides and chest exposed, with your head only partically protected. You then grasp their head in a specific manner, and hold it rigidly...effectively making you unable to respond while they attack you. You then hold them in a specific manner, while moving your knee up into their face...Which requires a very long movement... (Face and head and neck are used interchangably) Sort of move that would work on TV, or against someone who you could defeat normally, but against someone of a decent skill level would be a very rookie sort of action. Added to everything else...Killing people though martial arts is neither wise, nor sensible... Punching them in the neck would be similarly as effective, though would only require 1 hand and no complicated manuevering....

Would be nice if Runescape released a classic server... One that basically reset the clock to day 1 and released the old updates over time. I remember the days when I could play proficently without a wiki page and a 'system'...Would be worth the occassional exploding rock, the sub-par graphics, and getting occassionally assaulted by noobs who insisted they were going to report me...Or spending several hours in a bank shouting 'Hallys for sale!' As long as they didn't allow you to transfer your old account over, I think it would work well.

Well.... Kazi and Jen survived. (Kazi by the use of 3 hero points) Martel and Cathran are in a carriage being attacked by a great unknown. Caliber and Ursus are striding masterfully towards the township, though even at 138 feet per round, they are still far too distant (Verses a carriage of 100 feet per round) to actually make it. And.... Loran and Kiara are set to attend the meeting, after having had a light lunch. (Seriously, 'We must charge across the Island at break neck speed!' is not a valid responce to 'Hmmm, our Captain has sent us on a wild goose chase.' There was clearly a reason, and said reason would become manifest over time....Or we can assume my character randomly decided that having a crew that trusts him wasn't worth them having a good night out.)

Server is irc.tip.it /join #ocean Pretty much it.