RAHK

My preferred method for banning was the actual hands-on technique. I think that another nice method would be for them to send a message to a suspected macroer that would go across their screen in bold-face print: You are going to be banned for autoing if you do not say something intelligent in the next : 120 seconds (and have it count down). I am getting pretty tired so I hope I explained that right lol. Basically what I am saying is this: They do not have to use in-game reports. They can simply go to the flax fields and clean them out. Then hop to the next world. One or two people could hit up every spot with relative ease once a day. After a month of this how many bans do you think that they would acquire? Lets say 2 per spot and say they only police 5 spots a day on every single world (5 minutes max is all that is required to identify, ban, and move on). In eight hours a day, 5 days a week, for only one month I think that they could easily outdo their previous bans.

BTW, I hate all vegetables.. but If i had to choose one, lettuce maybe? Lol thank you for the quote you ruined the fun. :lol: Anywho, I don't type very fast so I am just know getting to your response and hopefully I finish before you get back from class, sigh. Everytime they do something that "thwarts" macroers it makes you feel good right? Well don't you think that it would be fiscally smarter to come up with some sort of permanent solution? Macroers defeat Randoms in days sometimes HOURS so who do you think these Randoms benefit? All these little things are just good PR for the real gamers out there. Ask yourself this: If you were a company (a non-feeling, amoral entity) that's goal was to make money would you try to "double-dip" and reap the benefits from both worlds if you could do so without serious inconvenience to yourself? NOTE: I am trying to reply in order so I am not reading past the one that I am replying to. Sorry I type slow. :oops:

So the proof that you have that I am wrong is to say that: 1. Randoms - as I said above: 2. Bannings - How many macroers do you PERSONALLY know got their mains banned? Banning one of their throw-aways slows them down momentarily and just makes the average gamer feel avenged. 3. Rules - This again falls under "pleasing the customer". If they say that ring of wealth actually never did anything would you believe it after so many testimonials? 4. Detection - When was the last time you saw their system? Remember you are trying to disprove my "theory" here. I have provided the best "evidence" that I can but you just quote them? I have already read what they said thank you. :roll: 5. Duel Arena - For a third time (not your fault per se I am just keeping track) I will point this out: They need to keep us placated or we will all pack up and leave. This has been a blatantly obvious spot for autoers for too long. They obviously HAD to do something to keep us happy. Macroers pay Jagex alot more per person than the average 'Scaper. Why would they want to ruin that customer base if they can keep it and us? 1. You are right it was all a Hollywood fake (yes I am being sarcastic!!!) 2. How the heck would ANYBODY know if that were true lol? If it is true then we wouldn't know and if it is not then... we would NOT know lol. Personally, I think if there were anything to see us they would turn tail and scoot because humans are pretty dang nasty to each other. 3. Bush is much to dumb to be a robot... Is this actually a rumor like the other two? I would honestly like to know if we have devolved that far yet. :oops:

Your credibility is shot. A barrows item every five runs?? :roll: Well technically this guy CAN get better but averages the same: I am sorry to say that this is a mathmatical impossibility unless you have a magic number. :roll:

Ok, I have a kind of cynical view on Jagex's view on macroers so please bear with me and read the whole thing before I get instantly flamb̮̩̉̉ed to a crisp. :lol: Jagex, Ltd. is a company. Companies like this really useful thing called money. Companies tend to do whatever is legal to get more of that nifty thing. Notice that I said "legal" and not some more ambiguous word like "moral". Initially, in RSC, the company had very direct and personal ties with the community. They actually went in-game and spoke with people about the game and what they liked/disliked. During this time they were less of a "company" and more of a... for lack of a better term lets say "club owner". In this club they had a bunch of faces that they did not know but everyone knew them. As they put more time and effort into this "club" it became more and more popular resulting in more and more profit and work. This forced the "club owners" to hire more people to assist them with the work and allowed them to pay those people and reap a nice profit. As both of these scaled upwards they had to spend less time with the people who frequented the "club" (the RSC community) and more time dealing with "management" duties... and enjoying that useful thing called money. This resulted in them eventually being indifferent to the humdrum concerns of the members of their "club" and losing touch with RSC community in the way that they had been previously. NOTE: Everything in brown is simply what I have gathered from forums and other sources of people's thoughts/rants about "the good old days". Since I joined the Runescape community quite recently compared to most I have no first-hand knowledge of this. That was my understanding of how Jagex evolved from a close-knit community of gamers and designers to the company that it is today. Being a company that now has it's eyes set on the bottom-line they would prefer to do things that MAKES them money as opposed to things that LOSE or, more to the point in my discussion, do not make them AS MUCH money (yes, in essence they are the same but you will get my meaning in a second). So, all of that was just to point out that Jagex likes money and will do anything legal (as do nearly all other companies) to get more of it. Now put that on the back burner for a second while I discuss macroers. There are (to my knowledge) two general categories of Macroers: 1. Those who macro to raise stats and/or raise their gp. 2. Those who macro to raise gp and then sell that gp for real world cash. Both of these groups make Jagex money by paying for multiple accounts. Jagex makes a ton of money off of the member accounts alone (remember magics, flax, sharks, and other insanely popular member-only macro spots). They also benefit in other, less tangible ways. Group 1 macroers are dedicated to improving their characters which would only be important if they planned on playing long-term. If you had to bet on who would play for longer (thereby making you more cash) between a brand new member or a brand new member with macros to cut out the tedious tasks and increase his in-game accolades who do you think would be here 2 years from now? Group 2 macroers keep the lazy and rich (in real life) interested in the game since they can continue to pad their virtual wallets with gp. Now if Jagex, the COMPANY that wants to make money, MAKES money off of them, why, oh why, would they want to ban them? Don't bother mentioning morality or ethics because those things have a pretty hard time competing with dollar signs and euros in the business world. Honestly, if it is legal then it is fair game. I am not saying that this is right at all, I am simply stating facts as they now are. Ok, now that you can see why I believe that Jagex WANTS macroers I would like to point to why they do NOT want macroers... and why this has little effect. Gamers resent cheaters. Seeing the large amount of cheaters makes honest gamers mad and makes it seem impossible to ever achieve the goals that macroers can achieve with relative ease. It is frustrating to see the immoral get ahead while those of us who do the right thing never seem to advance fast enough. All of these things cost them customers and makes people less likely to tell others of the game. Jagex, like anybody else in any kind of community be it business or pleasure, would prefer to do things the honest, moral way since it tends to be more popular. :wink: Now, being the intelligent entity that it is, how can Jagex reap the benefits of having macroers without suffering the consequences? They obviously cannot let it get so bad that every single resource is occupied by a bot otherwise the whole community will collapse and they will no longer have ANYBODY to pay them. Here is their solution (and I have to admit that it is obviously clever enough to work for this long): 1. Keeping Macroers in Check - They threaten with their rules and their occasional comments that they look at cheaters in a VERY negative light. This scares off the majority of "possible macroers" due to the fact that they don't want their mains banned but still allows plenty of those who can see through their lies... Remember Jagex is a COMPANY who likes that useful thing called money. If they can legally lie and make more money why wouldn't they? 2. Keeping Their Larger Customer Base Happy - The effect of the 15k ban was twofold: scare off a portion of autoers and make the main customers happy. I HIGHLY doubt that there were many honest gamers that saw that topic on the main page and didn't smile. I know I did that's for sure. 15k sure sounds like a lot but I can assure you that it isn't. As the main page said recently: we just had a new high of 185k players on AT ONCE. Lets just pretend for a second that is the whole active community. 15k is barely 8% of that. If you take into account the fact that there are easily more than double that many ACTIVE accounts you can see that 15k is a minuscule amount. This is all assuming that Jagex was entirely truthful. What if they only banned 100 member accounts and 14.9k free accounts? (No money lost there since autoers don't click ads lol.) What if the accounts that they banned haven't been used in 2 years? And who is to say that they actually banned 15k? For all you and I know it was 1500 or even 15 lol. The point is they can put forth a tiny tidbit of hope for the honest gamers and, being the determined people we tend to be, that is enough to keep us satisfied for a couple more payments. So all Jagex needs to do to get the best of both worlds is to NOT ban macroers (at least the paying ones that is) and to make it appear to us, the honest gamers, that they are doing everything that they can do stop the macroers. Now all this is stated in relatively simple english and I believe is also relatively believable... what remains is a little "proof" if you will. Since I obviously cannot go and get an reliable response from Jagex themselves (as they would OBVIOUSLY have to deny this whether or not its true) I will attempt to "prove" this by playing the devil's advocate. If they were HONESTLY as against macroers as they claim to be they would be able to do a lot more to stop them. Here are just a few examples of what I am talking about: 1. Say they ran a poll that said: If we could put all our focus on banning macroers one week a month would you be willing to forfiet/postpone that week's update? With a one-in-four chance of getting macroers every month there would be a lot less to fight with over resources. 2. Say they hired 10 people whose exclusive job would be to hunt down autoers. After they acquire targets they could easily "track" them and would be notified as soon as they did something outside of their normal autoing coding. After the alert they would watch that character as it did this foreign activity until it either resumed it's task or traded/drop-traded with the main. After they have a positive ID on the main they could simply ban it and any of the macro accounts that had contact with it. While this would only squash Type 1 macroers, I belive that this is by far the larger of the two groups. With 10 people finding 10 mains a day (and countless thow-away accounts) each they could easily crush the autoing community. After the Type 1 macroers are essentially gone (I seriously doubt many would ever restart if they lost their lvl 107 mains lol) they would just have to focus on the repeat Type 2 offenders and new Type 1 offenders. Type 1s would eventually go extinct because they wouldn't like to repeatedly restart stats and gp. Type 2 offenders would also eventually get I.P. banned due to having several characters banned from the same address. This would result in the VAST majority of macroers to be banished to other games. Of course some Type 2s would continually slip through the cracks but I could deal with macroers if I didn't have to see them every single time I logged on... in every single world... in almost every single good training spot... :cry: 3. They could honestly do what they say that they can do if they can actually do it because apparently they, and I quote: If this were the truth exactly as they claim then why can we still see macroers? This states VERY clearly that they have no problem detecting and banning macroers... yet it hasn't been done. I find it kind of funny in a sick depressing sort of way. :? 4. If they are not a COMPANY first and truly care about the community they could easily put the money into finding and crushing every single macroer. If they took a hit in their pocket books so what? If they despise cheaters as much as true gamers do then they should be willing to put that ahead of profit, right? Well that is just about it. I wonder how many people red the whole thing? Let me have a little fun and request those who did to say the name of their favorite vegetable in the final sentence of their reply. I would just like to know who actually reads these long posts. :shock: I would like to leave you with the darkest thought that I have had since I have been writing this... If macroers have such an enormous potential for making them cash, who is to say that they did not or DO not create or assist in the creation OF those bots? Starting from Jagex's side of the house it would be relatively easy to make a reliable bot and get it in general circulation. I would bet $100 US that this is probably too dark but I would not be totally shocked if I found myself $100 poorer. :wink: Final thing is this: I am not saying that I believe this 100%. I am saying that I think that this is a likely scenario and would like to know others' thoughts and opinions on this. Have fun.

Thank you.... seriously.... thank you. :lol: You just HAD to point this out didn't you!!! This has been in the back of my mind ever since they took out blocking. I refuse to acknowledge the (likely, sigh) possibility that they would do this because it would truly drive me INSANE... not the I-always-wear-a-cape-and-a-phat(bought off of Ebay lol)-in-real-life-when-I-go-barrowing-in-game insane. I am talking about the chew-my-fingernails-until-I-hit-bone-in-real-life-when-I-go-barrowing-in-game insane. I can't stand the thought. Like nails on a chalkboard. :x In response to the queries thing I think that this is a great idea if we all send in the EXACT same question word-for-word. That way there wouldn't be any discrepencies in their replies (other than the obvious bureaucratic garbage). Feel free to post one on a new thread and I am sure a ton of people will help out. Heck this might even be supported in the General F2p forums since I am sure they can understand the frustration caused by being so close yet so far. :!:

No offense intended but I hardly think that this proves anything. Instead of using static numbers you used ranges... why? The only thing that does is further randomizes your results aka increasing your margin of error GREATLY. I mean the item chances could be increased from a variety of different numerical variables. Their point in KC and chest rewards was to keep us guessing so that we don't all discover that magic number that results in an item 40% of the time or something crazy like that. It would make Barrows armor no longer psuedo-rare and as commonly used as rune. To prevent this they did one of the following things: 1. Made KC directly responsible for the results of the chest as in the monsters have a drop-list of their own and/or have a "ring-of-wealth"-esque (ooooh I am patenting that word) effect on the brothers' drop-list. 2. Made KC have some bizarre mathmatical effect such as: odd numbers double the chance, prime numbers lower the chance, the higher the number in Fibonnacci's Sequence that KC ends on the greater the chance, etc. etc. You know Jagex and their twisted sense of humor. :wink: 3. Made KC have no effect whatsoever on the chest which has resulted in countless hours of wasted time therefore MUCH less Barrows equipment on the market. Think about this: if this were true and there was never a KC counter how many hundreds of sets of barrows equipment would have been put into the market? I think that getting a KC substantially higher than the "required 6" (lets say 60, 600, or even 10k lol... sigh :roll: ) and not recieving a proportionally higher amount of runes and/or barrows items would automatically disprove theory number 1. Since I do not have the time, patience, mental acuity, and/or resources to prove/disprove this theory as most others also do not I don't know that this theory is even provable. While THAT may be true it doesn't prove whether or not theory number 2 IS true. Since I, and apparently a great deal of others (including yourself at one point in time), have intimate knowledge of large KCs and meager resulting rewards I think that this is the MOST likely scenario. Now two final things: 1. I bow down to your all-knowing and phenominal Barrows guide and to you as an intelligent individual. :P Seriously. I just think that without better testing habits that you simply cannot say that you have proved anything (yet) beyond a shadow of a doubt. The alarmist attitude that you seem to be using (all caps in your title and absolutes in your declarations) seems totally out of character. I took a long time to write this reply because I greatly respect you, your work, and your posts to such an extent that I wanted to try to be as articulate and unoffensive as possible. I hope I succeeded. =\ and 2. I am NOT, I repeat, NOT saying that you are wrong OR saying that what I think is right. What I am saying is that I think that the evidence gathered and the manner that it has been gathered points more towards my conclusion than yours at this time. I would NOT be shocked if later we find out that KC has an beneficial effect that tapers off the higher that it is... I just do not think that there has been sufficient evidence to prove so.

Go to Barrows, Kill 1-100k Bloodworms and 0-1 Brothers and screeny how many blood runes you get. :roll: No offense (honestly) but I really don't think that you have a lot of Barrows experience. If the chest "decayed" I would have gotten squat when I left a 12 KC for a month while I trained agility and fishing. I had killed all 6 brothers but the skeletons had forced a tele :oops: and I forgot all about it until returning. When I opened the chest after killing nothing else I got the standard runes and gp garbage (as usual) plus a loop half. Anywho, I do not think that this thread really applies anymore since Indalecio is no longer able to test this. =\

When I was in the computer lab at the Nelson Rec. in Ft. Lewis I walked past someone staring intently at a computer screen. Because of the angle that I was sitting (waiting in line) I asked him what was demanding so much of his attention (by saying "Wutchadoin?"). He told me that he was playing "Run Escape". This sounded like a corny NES game and when I got up to look at it (losing my place in line... gotta love cherries :roll: ) my suspicions were confirmed when I saw the graphics. "Is this a NES-mod?" I queried. He corrected me by telling me it was an epic quest that involved doing every possible task put forth so that you can eventually escape the fantasy land and get back to reality. (I found out later that he was told that by HIS friend.) After watching him battle a few scorpions and catch a few trout I asked a couple more questions to satisfy my curiosity. He said that he had to leave so I started up a character right then and there (essentially getting back in line where I was before my spot was commandeered.) A week later we got into an argument over whether it was "Run Escape" or "Runes Cape". I told him that the fantasy land was the ONLY land and that it was OBVIOUSLY the Cape (think Cape as in land that juts out into the sea) of Runes (when I was under the impression that runes "grew" there). A week after that we both admitted the truth of "Rune Scape". So, to make a long story short, I also noticed the other possible variations of "r-u-n-e-s-c-a-p-e". 8) Did I mention that I spent most of that time chopping trees and selling them to the general store because the goblins were too stingy with the gp?

I don't think that many people saw this post but I for one would like to say that I am sorry to hear about your foul luck. By the way, what is so hard to remember about my name lol? It's... four... letters... I'm just messing with ya. :D I would like to tell you that while I DID kill mostly bloodworms I know that at least 25% were other types of creatures. Everytime that somebody passed through my room they spawned a creature that I ended up killing. Several times a switched rooms to see if I could get more kills an hour. I also made sure that I killed over 100 of each type just in case something like this came up. I failed to mention the above since the thread died within hours of me posting the reward lol. I honestly didn't think that many people were interested but I logged on today and saw two threads mentioning my research. From my personal experience I would have to say that the monsters do not add anything to the chest because I recieved ONLY 6 of Leesters' previously mentioned "sets" and not a higher amount of ANYTHING. No large haul of runes, no bank-busting gp, and certainly not a Barrows item. :roll:

Tried out the cutlasses and, as expected, wasn't impressed combat-wise. Alched them since they are untradeable. :!:

Filled Zammy back when they were 100k a pop. Filled Sara because I was told it was GREAT for slayer monsters (kind of "ehh" in my opinion) and got a deal on all 4 pages 90k each. 8) I have a couple extra pages floating around but Guthix isn't worth the trip to the light house. Honestly though, if you are poor then I would get the Guthix one. It is exactly "average" but is very affordable. If you aren't in that bad of shape then I would only fill it so you can "bless" your friends thrice over. :wink:

Normal stat restores do not refill prayer only Supers. P.S. I knew this but only after 8 months of playing. :oops:

The best way to prevent this is to not go afk until you actually make 2 swings at the tree. It only falls off the 1st swing but just in cas of lag you might as well watch another. If it doesn't pop off then you are good until the tree is down or somebody makes it "dance". Also you should have sold the handle for 20k because the only person who would have got ripped off was the thief. :twisted:

That was a great trip... technically it was my first ever SUCCESSFUL trip. Noon was WAY too early for me to get up on a Saturday :lol: so I missed the first trip. The second trip of the SECOND trip I caught 3 sharks, 2 lobs, and had my first ever look at a manta ray... but as I am only 86 cooking I will have to wait 5 more levels to cook it. :roll: Thank you big-time for the Trawler fun, Smavey!

Here is a pic of what I got in my first 100 runs (minus 1 thing but I forgot what it was lol): D med my first ever run got me hooked :oops: The weird thing is that was also the order that I got everything. Having a pretty dry spell lately (25 runs 0 items) though. :cry:

Well I paid off Qwerth now it is your turn. Check your In-box so we can meet up. Reply there so this thread can fade away lol. :wink:

Low-Mid Level players should really try this for some decent combat/mage XP (until you can purchase/use a whip): Mystic Air Staff. Rock Crabs. TG Nats. Awesome Att/Str/Def/HP XP per hour smashing those Lvl 13 Rock Crabs' heads in (50 HP ea so 200 XP ea kill). While you are doing this you can cast TeleGrab on the Nats (and the cut saphires also I guess) which turns 1 Law into 2 Nats (which you can then trade/sell for more Laws) while giving the Mage Xp for casting TG. So, recap, great combat XP, free mage xp, and you basically double the amount of cash that you bring as laws. It is true that 90% of the time there is no need for a Mystic Staff over a normal Elemental Staff... but then again that 10% of time is when it could make the most important difference :wink:

My bank is stuffed since I keep all random event outfits and all tools necessary for skilling... not to mention that I don't like running around looking for simple stuff while doing the weekly quests. :roll: My idea is have a "Bank" Tab and a "Achievements" Tab. The Bank Tab would be exactly how the current one is and the "Achievements" Tab would be able to hold ONLY untradable things such as Mime (5 spaces), Freaky Forrester (3 spaces), Ghostly Robes (7? spaces), (Frog (1-4 spaces), Holiday (Bunny Ears, Scythe, etc.), Camo (3 spaces), and perhaps Quest Items (~ spaces). Not including Quest Items that is at least 10 spaces per person and in my case it would be upwards of 30 spaces easily.

Hey thanks for the support people. The first 10k was just incredibly unsatisfactory (KC: Too Many) so I HAD to do it again. Tiny things, like not knowing whether or not KC has maybe a LITTLE effect, really drive me bonkers so I am more than happy just knowing the answer regardless of the reward. Anywho, thanks for watching. Tune in next week when I kill 100k Goblins for a Challenge Scroll (not going to happen :lol: :roll: ).

Lol same here :oops: Hey but at least it was only like 400 D bones for me. :?

You and qwerth. Leave me a message here or catch me in-game so that we can meet up for your prize.

Lol no offense but you are a little late... I already posted the reward and the two winners... which reminds me: MESSAGE ME IN-GAME or ON TIP.IT FOR YOUR PRIZES YOU TWO!!! They are cramping my bank space up lol so you have 1 week to claim your prize before I alch 'em. :twisted: Message me.

Ummm... what? Do you mean if I killed the brothers I would get their armor? That is a well established fact. Do you mean if I killed the Blood Worms I would get Barrows' armor? Nope, KC has no effect whatsoever on the chest. Do you mean something else? If so please restate it in a clearer format because I am not sure what you mean. :oops:

You said: I recieved: only thing that was correct was bolt racks... BTW the 2 winners need to pm me for the prize =]