RAHK

Feel free to add me and ask questions but please limit to a few a day and no spam please :wink:

AMEN or, for those that makes uncomfortable, HOOAH! This should be tattoed on some parent's inner eyelids because they are creating hellions like there is no tomorrow... because of their hellions :shock: :lol:

Well it seems as if everyone solved any questions/flames that came up so I only need to reply to Netsubou. Thanks all. In reference to the section that I highlighted I would like to say that they are breaking the rules of the game that they are paying for. If you extrapolate that into... let's say the legal system you can easily see why that isn't such a good idea. If somebody breaks the rules in a situation where they pay for the service (through taxes) they should recieve the punishment coming to them. While I do agree that breaking the rules of a game as opposed to those of a legal system can have quite a bit smaller impact on other's lives, I would have to say that in-game macroing is the legal equivalent to multiple murders. Not because of the actions severity but because of the punishment involved (banning aka the death sentence lol). If you never go to a macroing spot that has limited resources (such as coal mining as opposed to ess mining), never go to world 1 or 2, or never trade other players then macroing probably has 0-1% of an effect on you, lol. If you do things differently from that I can assure you that macroers have a larger impact on you than you realize. That being said, I would have to agree with you that "noobs" do have an even larger impact in day-to-day RS2 life than macroers... but it is a lot easier to rid RS2 of cheaters than to "correct" human nature :lol: . Selfish, annoying, immature, decietful people will find their way into ANY community. Also, I am going to state again that these are not my views per se. I am playing the Devil's Advocate here and stating POSSIBLE things that could easily be plausible...

The whole point of having friends is to enjoy their company while being good enough for them to enjoy you... if they lie/scam/cheat/keylog/betray or otherwise do negative things to you you should probably drop them since they are not only no longer serving their "purpose" they are doing quite the opposite. I mean, if your toothbrush started to rot your teeth out would you continue to use it? People are worth the benefit of the doubt but not worth the proof. :wink:

The part of this story that doesn't make sense is: if you knew that this was a scam and you honestly care more about xp than gp, why would you take anything that you were willing to lose there? Why not ash? It would have been even more funny without ANY risk whatsoever...

I know that this is probably not worth the effort to you but this would be a lot easier to read and complain (whip grr) about if they were in order from highest protected item to lowest commonly used item. Very good post though either way. :D

If somebody dies from their own stupidity then they deserve to lose their items. If somebody dies from taking uneccessary risks then they also deserve to lose their items. That being said I ALWAYS* return people's items if I get the opportunity. Most of the time they deserve to lose their items because of their own stupidity/risky behavior but occasionally lag or other things "unfairly" part them from their belongings. I have returned well over 10mil in items and gp (half of that was when I hadn't even hit the 1mil mark myself) and will continue to do so because of the reasons that you stated above. *The only exception is if they are being a jerk to me or others. If that is the case I keep the items or give them to the jerk's victims, if applicable. I once gave 6k steel arrows and a glory to a lvl 28 who was being called a "noob" for no reason other than his combat lvl.

Jayc3399 you remind me of my friend from middle school. He would literally turn green at the sight of fruit. We pooled our money together and offered him $50 to eat a single banana... he couldn't swallow one bite, lol. Thank you and the others for their complimentary posts. :D Anywho, I think that if someone has had a main for >1 year with >100mil in ill-gotten gains they would be very depressed if they lost it. Regardless of the amount of macroing that they put into their character they probably put in at least 25% of "honest" work. It would be very disheartening to lose that work along with the countless hours of macroed "work". The people that cheat (i would assume) are probably not that determined and probably have poor work ethics (lol) so I doubt that they would be willing to restart from scratch. If your main got banned (assuming that you have >1 year of work and/or a lot of gp) would you be extremely motivated to start from nothing? Now imagine if you had their weak attitude towards "work"... i was thinking the same thing :D I wasted 5 minutes of your life?! After reading the first sentence did you think that I was going to bust out a 10bil drop party for the best flame or something? Honestly, you have to have an IQ in the teens to read more than a few words and assume that the whole topic is going to START to interest you. You "wasted" your own time through your own idiocy as did he, thank you very much. :wink: (Also these seems to be out of character for the posts that I have seen from you previously...? I can totally understand a disagreement but blaming me for your stupidity is kind of... well... stupid :idea: )

Thats what i meant - you need to work out what could be untrue or misleading first Hey, my sense of humour is slightly warped - someone making of fool of themselves like that is kinda funny to me (but only 'kinda' :P ) My veg is still carrots - do we have to do a new one each post? No to the veg thing, sorry I wasn't paying attention to who I was replying to. :oops: Baby has a cold... along with my wife, my toddler, and myself sigh. :roll: I have no clue if this is a flame, an appropriate response, or another language. :wink: They = who?

:lol: :lol: :lol: acually who does not me :P :wink: Lol several people have actually responded with "I did not read this" sigh :roll: and where is your vege?!?!? :P

You can never be 100% sure if a player is macroing though... I never bother reporting ppl that "look" suspicious since there could always be a simple reason for not getting a reply from the person (like public chat off). I do agree though... Knowing that someone scams / cheats / macros for a living and not bother reporting those kind of ppl is sort of like you yourself are cheating (since you are helping the cheater get a away). * Guess I'll vote for something as simple as apples (since I wouldn't know the english words for any other vegetables anyways) :D That fluent in english and you only know one vegetable? (By the way an apple is a fruit not a vege :wink: ) Don't feel bad I lived in Italy for a year and only learned "Ciao" lol. The person that I was quoting said that they personally knew macroers. i was not speaking of suspected macroers in-game. I agree that you can never be 100% certain but 99.9% is good enough for me :P To Evrae: I think that it should be applied to everything that could possibly be false. I would much rather take more time than be duped. Everything else you said = true and I didn't think it was funny but oh well. Also where is your dang vege lol? :roll: I think that you are saying that you believe there is a significant difference between people's views/amount of randoms when it comes to lvl 3 or lvl 4 accounts. I do not think this is true but I was only those lvls for a matter of minutes ages ago so who knows. Also, make certain that they are cheaters and not "skill pures" before you report because it would be a shame to get unfairly banned. :cry:

:shock: I knew it! I knew he was a robot! lol, jk Anyways, I can tell you honestly, when I saw the 15k accounts banned, I did NOT smile. I am and always have, and most likely always will be a honest player. But i didn't smile. In fact, I got worried. 2 of my rl friends macro, im not going to name names, and i was afraid they got banned. they didn't, but one got a serious black mark to be reckoned with. Anyways, you brought up the scripts themselves. Some people write their own, sell them for RS cash, and use them. But I heard a rumor that Jagex is actually buying some, and then reverse engineering them, figuring out their weaknesses, and exploiting them. Now as for the banning the macroers, this will either make the person a legite player, or the person will start over, and pay for members again. And as for non-mem (F2P) scripters, just having the ads shown gets money for Jagex. Its like on TV. You watch the news or something, they go to commercial, you sit through, and continue watching the program. The company is paid to just show the piece of film, and then thaat company gets new customers sometimes. But macroers aren't really Jagex's "cash crop" so to speak. They make their money off of legite F2P players who get bored and want to step up, showing ads on the site, and who knows what else. that is my opinion. My belief is those who do not report cheaters are, in essence, cheating themselves. Other than that my understanding about the ads was that they get paid per click not per hour shown. I honestly do not know how to prove it either way though.

:lol: True. I always enjoy a well thought out ANYTHING (flame or otherwise) as compared to a short insult. While this doesn't change my opinion of the flawed logic used in the original flame I can't argue with the flawless logic of this comment. :D (Sorry for the delay; I have been rather busy lately.)

I agree that more uneccesary note trades tend to be attempts at scamming than note-less ones but I always trade everything in notes personally. I once tried selling full ahrims in note form and got reported for scamming before the other person put up the cash. I told him to stop freaking out and just slow down to read the second screen. After the successful trade he apoligized and told me that he reported me again with his apology on-screen so that I wouldn't get banned. :roll: Anywho, I think that you should trade as I do. TAKE...YOUR...TIME. If the trade involves any amount of cash that I would hate to lose I take at least 10 seconds to double-check my math and the second trade screen. Remember, Haste Makes Waste or what have you. :P

While I agree that this ban was a bit of a stretch I don't have any pmod friends to ask. :oops: I mean who would honestly be offended by animal droppings for a name? It's just a silly name lol come on. :roll:

To the people that I don't reply to I would like to say that I think that your posts are simply self-sufficient so they don't really necessitate a reply. Don't take this as any form of slight whatsoever. I only mean that your post states everything that needed to be said about it. :wink: Good point. But zeke did not say he/she did not ready it. We all love to flame though, don't we. Me included... You can usualy gauge how passionate someone is on a topic by the legnth of their discussion. When I come across rhetoric that is at the far end of the 'length scale', as compaired to all other discussions on any topics, I am very suspicious of it. It brings out the cynic in me. I mull it over and first try to figure out if the information is factual. Followed by a check for consistency. Inconsistent statements are a good sign someone is just showing off their ability to use a keyboard if nothing else. Then I target the points which are made to sway opinion. After which, I ponder the relative subject in frame with what is commonly accepted by the mass public, the politics of the subject and politics of even bringing up the subject. Finaly I add all that togather as if it were a formula. Ninety percent of the time I find passionate rhetoric to be worthy of suspicion even at times when I completely agree with it. I bring up this cynical viewpoint of examination not solely about this thread. But its interesting that a large number of long passionate threads like this one have been populating the tip.it forums since Jagex took strong public action against cheaters. End post. I would have to say that this is a well thought out response and I think that this form of "cynicism" should be applied to everything that one encounters. If you take every single thing that you read/see at face value you can look forward to a life of constant disappointment. People lie and twist "facts" to better their own position in life regardless of the consequences, at times. This, of course, does not mean that all things are lies and all people are first decietful and second truthful. It merely means that all information acquired should be taken with a grain of salt. I was midly concerned that this topic would only recieve replies stating that "big words suck" or "reading is hard" because of the age group that runescape is targetted at. I know of only a few confirmed adults (Leesters and... well he and I are the only ones that I know of :oops: but I would assume that there are others.) that frequent these forums so I am glad to know that there is a larger percentage of higher-thinking individuals (be they adults, students, or children) on Tip.it than on RS2. It warms my heart to read intelligent replies regardless of whether or not they agree or disagree. Now, in regards to the nature of your post, I am going to have to say that I disagree. Longer posts would tend to indicate a more thoroughly thought out idea than shorter posts in my opinion. Take, for example, your reply. You did not simply state "I view you post in a cynical light." You backed it up with your thoughts behind that statement. I would have to say, though, that your long"ish" reply is paradoxical in it's claim. You say that the longer the statement the more likely it is misleading by stating so in a long-winded manner. :wink: I personally think that if it is not worth the poster's time to clearly state what their topic is and their thoughts backing it up, then it is probably not worth my time to read it. Conversely, if the topic requires only a few words (such as "What do you think of the new dragon weapon?") then brevity is always nice. :) I would have to agree with you one another very important aspect. If you read something that exclusively points to the poster's ideas as being the ONLY possible reality without mentioning the possiblity, even in passing, of any other point of view then you can safely say that the author's biased view was well recorded. :wink: I would have to say that I sufficiently played the Devil's Advocate against my own "theory" by stating that I could easily be incorrect and, in fact, truly HOPE that I am. I would like to believe that they are honestly doing everything in their abilities (including propaganda. Because IF they can lie and keep a couple of people from cheating then more power to them) to crush the macroing community. As to the portion of your post that I highlighted in bold I would like to say that previous to this being brought up publically by Jagex there was little interest in the general community in regards to macroers. I can assure you that there were many that believed as I did (and do) that macroers were having a significantly large negative impact on the game. The reason for the flood of topics in relation to the trickle before is this: the community is now "ripe" for picking. People who weren't concerned before are now, thanks to the abundance of macroers they personally see and to Jagex taking a more public stance against them. Those who have always been concerned now have an audience that is more accepting to those ideas. I think that it is hardly "interesting" that the band wagon has shown up and people are hopping on. It is human nature and it is an applicable topic in "today's gaming community". All, excluding the cheaters themselves, are at least SLIGHTLY concerned about this and are voicing their opinions in force. I would like to thank nobody7785 for providing perfect juxtaposition to your intelligent post with this: :roll:

I too am all set with ess mining and flax picking. I also will never spin another bow string as long as I play unless they start rising in price like phats lol. I am all set with anything that has to do with yews as soon as I finish burning the rest of the ones that I have banked. I won't go out of my way to cut, fletch, or burn them again. I am all set on fishing for swordies, lobbies, and bass(-ies?). Sharks for me and trout/salmon for xp. Good topic by the way. :)

Your credibility is shot. A barrows item every five runs?? :roll: Well technically this guy CAN get better but averages the same: I am sorry to say that this is a mathmatical impossibility unless you have a magic number. :roll: Did I say I have a magic number? I dont get the exact same KC every single time, it varies from 10-15 depending on how much I need to leech for the next run. If you are going to say something stupid at least back it up. This whole "mathematical impossibility" line doesnt really fly. Nothing in rune is a "mathematical impossibility" since drops deal with odds. Odds arent always exact and precise and neat. Come with me sometime. I dont do trips very often, so in all reality its not as great as it sounds, but I assure you that this is completely true. I might go every few days, for a few trips at a time. I dont claim to have gotten "over 400 items", one every 5 trips. Just because some people have greater luck at Barrows doesnt mean you can question their results. Everything in this game is based on a set of odds, sometimes you just beat the odds more often then not. Ive never had a drag med or half shield drop either, am I lying about that too??? Eventually my run of Barrows luck will end, but its been a great ride while I still have it. Do I need to start screenshotting everything....I think my credibility on these boards is pretty sound. I can post my last three trips if that would help any, but I have the feeling people are so set in their ways theyd think I faked them. Do you not realize that Abyssal whips are dropped on a timer? Ask most lvl 85 slayers, they can tell you for a fact that whips will drop at certain times of the day far more often. And while Im not saying Barrows operates like this, there is definite precedent that certain times of the day affect certain drops. As for the KC affecting which sets of runes you end up with, thats never been the case with me. But as I posted at the end, its all randomized luck, and what works for some may not work for others. Stop trying to figure out things that probably arent there, and just do Barrows the way you like, how you like, and be happy with whatever rewards might come your way :) I do not know whether or not you tell the truth or lie as a general thing. I do not know if you are "trusted" here or anywhere. I do not know ANYTHING about abyssal whip drops. What I DO know is you either lied or exaggerated greatly your barrows "prowess" (not meant as an insult. I just can't think of a better word, sorry :oops: ). How do I know this? Like a said: math. You claim an item to chest ratio of 1 in 4-6 which has held steady for "ages". From what I have seen the AVERAGE barrows item/chest ratio is 1 in 15-25. This means that you are at least three times as lucky as the best AVERAGE barrower. Lets assume that this is true when you went the first 4-6 times. The likelyhood that you could do a repeat performance is significantly lower the more times that you attempt it. If you have truly been going for "ages" then the odds that you could hold an average over three times of that of your peers for many months is astrinomical. If you (I doubt it because you sound quite intelligent) or anyone reading this doesn't get what I am saying I would like to make an example that is much more likely but still nearly impossible: Say that you and three others were dealt a deck of cards. The chances that you would get a card of a certain suit, say spades, is 13/52 because there are 52 cards available and 13 of those cards are "good" (aka barrows items). The chances that you would have a single good run (remember you claim at least 3 times the average of others) is 13/52 or 25%. The more times that you get items in this manner (1 in 4-6) is comparitively the same as getting spades dealt to you in a single hand. If you do exceptionally well once it is not that unlikely but the more times that you claim those same results consecuitively the smaller and smaller the chance of getting a spade (barrows item). To get 13 spades dealt to you is a rough equivalent of a 3x items to chest ratio for "ages". Guess what the chances of 13 spades being dealt to one person? One in 635,013,559,600. While the numbers themselves OBVIOUSLY do not translate from my example to your situation the IDEA that the longer the favorable condition repeatedly shows itself the smaller the chances are that repetition continues. If I wasn't so dang stupid from lack of sleep I would be able to remember a more consice answer. You stated that RS2 is based on odds. Well guess what: the odds of you telling the truth (with exaggeration being considered a lie here) are minute. The magic number bit was a reference to an earlier post. What I meant by that is this: unless you have figured out how to increase your odds by at least three times you can't possibly be telling the truth. While I agree with your logic that TECHNICALLY anything is possible when it comes to odds and random occurences and you COULD be telling the truth I would have to point out that realisticly it is in essence impossible. I also agree with your jaded view on "no pic, no proof" because we both know how easy it is to fake things. It would have been nice if it popped up a list of exactly what you recieved on a very intricate background. At least it would prevent the most obvious of fakes. PS- My main reason for posting that was to point out to Leesters that there was another claiming the same average. Tell me what you think the odds that your claim is valid (as in: what are the chances that someone repeatedly outperformed their peers by at least three times for as long as you claim?)

WARNING!!! To those of you who despise reading this reply is VERY long. Do not cause yourself undue stress!!! Simply scroll down to where I quoted you and read that reply!!! I hope you catch my sarcasm!!!! It is very obvious!!!! I am going to reply to as many people as I can before I nod off. Here goes nothing: (Thank you for numbering because it makes replies easier on me and the reader.) :) 1. When it comes to computers there is NOTHING that will ALWAYS be impossible. Given enough time and resources all forms of anti-cheat technology can eventually be thwarted. On this point I agree. I think that the main point of the way that I would go about banning is this: the goal is to make it "cost" them as much time and resources possible. If you ban the trash account you make them "pay" a small amount of time and resources. If you catch the main (in the manner that I have previously described) then they must "pay" a LOT more to continue their cheating ways. Also I seriously doubt that any of the widely used bot programs could outwit an actual human being. All they have to do is not respond to an unblockable Mod pm and their goose is cooked (see above). 2. I said absolutely NOTHING in reference to low lvls not talking to ME... I suggest that you re-read the posts until you actually understand... 3. Not only did I mention that autoers do NOT click ads I have already addressed the fact that their bandwidth usage is hardly more than they pay for. If Jagex were ACTUALLY losing money from macroing scum they would be OBLIGATED to crush them. Yes, they use more bandwidth a month than the honest player but I HIGHLY doubt that outweighs the profit. In response to the first paragraph I would like to make a screeny of the ROUGH idea (the stars are just so those of us who AFK and cruise forums while watching only a third of the screen would get some form of warning and wouldn't get a nasty surprise): Basically a Mod hops in to a well-known macroer spot, sees "me" macroing, sends me something along the lines of "talk to me or die!", this message would be sent in some really random way (different fonts, sizes, colors, areas of the screen, etc.) either determined by the Mod or in some other fashion, the message would count down if the person does not give "semi-intelligent" answers (basically asks a question or two that a 4 y/o could answer such as: what color are my boots? or what do you use to dig?), and if they did not reply in a satisfactory manner they would either be banned outright or "tagged" so that they could eventually track down the main. I hope that run-on sentence cleared that up. :? I personally haven't noticed any difference but I HIGHLY doubt that you are lying/exaggerating. I think that the hands-on approach as opposed to the automated one would work much better (as you say that it has). I do think that a random that requires the smallest amount of intelligence would also help to a lesser degree. PS- I am getting very sleepy so I am not quite sure that I am making sense. :roll: Honestly I can't think of a reply that would not go over your head... How about this: believe it and I only expect those who can count above 10 to read it so don't worry your little head. :wink: This is a perfect example of how to make yourself appear to be what you loathe... :wall: Good reply :) but I would rather eat bellybutton lint than turnips. Anywho, I think that when it comes to issues of morality you are either "part of the solution, or part of the problem". I doubt that Jagex honestly gives a hoot about macroers after they do the math that you referred to above and come out on top therefore their lackadaisical stance on macroers does more harm than "neutrality". I only disagree in a small way in regards to macroers effect on the honest gamers' gaming: it is frustrating when you think about all of the work that you put in to buy yourself that long-needed whip and you see a lvl 15 flax-picking-bot pulling in more in two weeks than you have in the last year. I also think that a large portion of players play the game SOLELY for the gp because they find merchanting and the like fun. If they put a lot of work in to buy a phat and see a lvl 15 selling 600k flax at 85 each they also might feel a little "twinge" in the back of their neck. Eh, to each their own so long as it is legal. :D Mmmm... corn on the cob. I would just like to say that I also have no technical "proof" so your suppositions are just as technically valid as mine. :P I would think that they would go the opposite way though when it comes to accounts/person ratio. If they know that player Y has 17 member accounts of which at least 6 are active at all times and player P has 2 accounts and only macros on one I think that they would rather keep the big-spender around so that they can make more cash off of him AND so that (if they are forced by the RS2 community to take severe action against macroers) they can say that they banned 17 accounts (and not mention how many owners were involved). One player Y ban (17 characters banned total) would look a lot better to the honest gamer than 5 player P bans (5 REAL people banned but only the mention of 10 characters banned)... but, as I initially said, there is no proof so either of us could be right/wrong/confused. You should really read some blogs or ANYTHING from Leesters because they are well worth the time involved (90% of them anyway). I wasn't really attempting to "teach" you anything. This is simply a topic made for the sake of discussion. Most everything that I typed COULD easily be true but I doubt the majority of people have actually taken the time to think it through (you are obviously in the minority as am I). Just reiterating what I said before: this isn't what I consider the truth. It is what I consider a POSSIBLE truth. I would honestly be pretty dissapointed to the point of quitting RS2 forever if Jagex actually did the "dark" and "evil" things that I/we mentioned. i just couldn't give my money to a company that is so intentionally and unnecessarily evil. Let me start off with that one ^^ Thats definetly too dark k ? If jagex would enjoy those bots why make so many randoms ? to make us think theyre taking action ? nah dont think so.... Anyways about ur idea in general yes i have thought the same thing many times, but since I cannot look into it any further way then u did and u still have no evidence then what are we ever supposed to find out ? And btw i like all veggies ;) I mentioned above somewhere that "dark" idea was mostly for comic relief. While technically it is POSSIBLE I don't think that it is that likely. I personally believe, though, that the MAIN goal of the continuous flow of Randoms is to remind the honest gamer that they are "trying". If what they claim is true ("EASILY detect" cheaters and their mains) then they have the power but do not use it. If they are lying it is just more "propaganda" to slake our thirst for macroers' blood. :twisted: I prefer to think that the smallest effort or voice can eventually bring about the largest of changes. I would much rather voice my opinion on the miniscule chance that it eventually leads somewhere than to hold with a defeatist's attitude... but you are probably right lol. ^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life. Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure. Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better. Snow peas > string beans in my opinion. :mrgreen: and lol at "picture book". I was implying that the creators of the bots were actually Jagex staff in disguise as opposed to being in "cahoots" with each other lol. That way they could put out the programs but still remain fairly anonymous. (Remember the "dark" part was me making fun of myself and my "theories".) Thank you for a good reply but I could not think of a good way to return the favor without simply inserting my responses as they came up. All things in bold are MY words not Jimmy_Kak's. The part in red is EXACTLY the whole point of this... no more, no less. Thank you for understanding. I am just trying to get people to think on this not believe in it. I don't like baked potatoes but I love mashed (yes I understand they are IDENTICAL in almost every way lol) and long live the bush-is-a-robot-insanity! :idea: The first two sentences seem rather odd but I agree with the last two Mr. Carnivore :P Paragraph 1 and 3 - I agree. I was playing the Devil's Advocate and stating the most malicious versions that could be deemed semi-plausible. I like the way that you put it, "a nice side effect". It seems to make the most sense. Paragraph 2 - I honestly don't remember because I wasn't around. My understanding was that somebody messed up a trade in the party hall and accidently discovered duping. Apparently I am way, way off lol. :oops: ^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life. Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure. Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better. What's wrong with people who don't read books? I haven't read a book that wasn't for class in 10 years, and rarely read books that are assigned (skim through them at most, usually). Granted he shouldn't have flamed... but some of us don't care much for reading ;) I would have to say that hanging out in Forums of any type would imply that a lot of reading would be done. Reading people's thoughts and ideas just might be more palitable than say Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" (one of my personal favorites) to you and him. I make it a point to stay away from macroers whenever convenient because they irritate me... but you say I can mess with them by closing doors? Sounds like fun to me :twisted: I'm resisting the urge to flame here. OK, some people don't like reading, but saaying there's nothing wrong with people who don't read books? I'm at a loss for words. Reading is incredibly important. Books make you think, give you knowledge, and give us the ability to reason and argue sensibly. Anyway, back on topic. The original post was a very interesting read. Its points were made logically, and tie in with what i believe we must always remember - Jagex is a company. Companies only do things to make a profit. They might say they care for their customers, or the environment, but really thats just to give us, the consumers, a good impression of them. However, i prefer the idea one poster came up with (sorry, cant remember who!) that Jagex doesn't completely sort out the macroers because it would cost too much. RAHK's thoughts are all logical, and cant really be faulted on the whole, but i think that the laziness idea is more likely. After all, Jagex as a whole is a company, but a company is made up of people. And unless all the staff are completely immoral, someone would have spilt the beans. Speaking of which, raw carrots Yay for carrots! My 2 y/o and I eat about a half pound of baby carrots a day when I read to her or listen to music. They are like Nature's candy. I am going to have to vote this my favorite post for several reasons: 1. It is well thought-out, precise, and a joy for my "organized" brain to read. 2. It compliments me (I am trying to be honest, who doesn't like that every once in awhile :oops: ) 3. It makes me happy that I get to end this huge reply on a high-note. :o My fuzzy brain thanks you. Ok time for bed again. Sorry for the huge reply but I was trying not to have a hundred replies in a row. I am too tired to proof read this so I hope it all makes sense. Good night and I will see if this is here tomorrow. :?:

This is probably going to be my last reply for a few hours because I think that I can finally get some sleep. Yay. From my understanding they spend a majority of that time during off-peak hours so that would basically have no effect whatsoever. Also I highly doubt that they use more than they pay for in bandwidth because that would mean that they are COSTING Jagex money... which any true company does eveything in it's power to prevent. It is not like they are a bunch of punk high school uber1337 hax0rz, ok? These are proffesional adults that could easily outmanuever the 90% of children who utilize others' programming. They are not amatuers. If they were losing money they would make it their most important goal to prevent this. Also, it is my hope that if I get enough people "riled up" about this (regardless of whether or not its true) that EVENTUALLY Jagex might get wind of it and either: A. Stop lying and start cutting off that little money bag. or B. Get off their kiesters and crush those fools like I know they can. G'noitey... most likely. :|

I think that this should be added on to the quest guides. This is basically a Quest Calculator and we have a calulator for everything else. :idea:

Lol that is exactly the point. I am saying this "theory" because I want people to think. Do I honestly think that Jagex could easily fry a majority of macroers? Absolutely. Do I think they don't because of profits? Actually, if anything I would have to say laziness above all else. Look how long RSC had to suffer. Since I have caught up I will just edit in this reply: If I knew what 4ry4n was personally I would have to agree with you 100% but since I don't I will just have to take your word for it that it was a bot and say Good Riddance.

As to your other points, I will only say I disagree. Those are a matter of opinion, and in mine, I would like to think that 15k is a significant portion, that Jagex would not annoy their paying customers with randoms unless they had a real purpose... ...However, the point above I will take contention with in that you say they'd take a hit in the pocketbooks if they really "despised cheaters as much as true gamers do." I only ask this: Would you pay an extra dollar or two a month to remove more macroers? I don't have any particular like for macroers, and I can safely say that I wouldn't. Your call. Mmm carrots. Ditto carrots. I have said this on these forums somewhere before and I will say it again: I would GLADLY pay double for every single item that I purchase from other players in-game if it meant that all autoers were permanently banned. It would not be different in real cash either. (I would like to point out that this is all conjecture as I have no ACTUAL proof. I have stated this before but I would like to point out again that this seems to follow a logical path to me. Thank you for your opinion as well :) )

(Yes I shrunk the spaces so I technically edited your post lol.) Wow. I put together a topic of discussion that has incited replies much faster than I can respond to (yes I type slow I already admitted that lol) and you rebut by saying that I have no life... and putting over 25 eye-rolls to prove how much more important and valuable YOUR time is. My reply? Only 1: :roll: Hehe couldn't resist. I have a life thank you very much. Happily married with two beautiful daughters. I think the problem here is that you had trouble understanding. Next time try looking in one of those books that has these letters on it for all those words with more than 2 syllables: D-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y

Lol that was more for comic effect than reality (very DARK :roll: ). Anywho, I would have to say that if what they claimed was true there would be nothing for anybody to complain about because they can "EASILY" detect both autoers and mains. :roll: