Soma2035

You're still missing the point. My mouse gives me a huge advantage over other people. It's a standard trackman, a popular mouse in the computer science industry, as it minimizes stress on various hand muscles. It takes one finger traveling two inches to move my cursor from one side of the screen to the other. It's precise, it's fast, and it doesn't take up space. Is this permissible? If not, then why do I have to buy myself a new mouse just for a computer game? This is the mouse I've been using for YEARS now. If it's allowed, then why should a gaming mouse be different? Again, it's readily available COMMERCIALLY, and simply allows the user to interface with his computer better. The fact that this question exists, the fact that there is doubt, indicates that the rule is poorly written. Players should not have to question whether or not they're breaking the rules. It's Jagex's responsibility to make the rules clear so that if someone breaks a rule, it's because they chose to or because they failed to read the rules. Not because the rule is not well-explained. Players normally have access to gaming mice, every bit as much as they have access to a standard marble mouse - find the retail center (online or physical) and cough up some money. And yet people are questioning whether or not this mouse is permitted. This is why the rule needs to be changed. Is your operating system written by Jagex? If not, it's also "other software." And those who have it most certainly have an advantage over those do not (because those who do not obviously can not play). Therefore, it's still an unfair advantage with 3rd party software. There should be no gray area. And in order for there to be no gray area, there should be no question of personal best judgment. I know as well as you do that Jagex never intended to prohibit players from playing their game. But the fact that the rule says one thing, but we players are expected to know there are exceptions intrinsically means there will be a gray area, for example, this thread. This gray area is unfair to players. If we have read the rule and the description, we should know whether we are acting in violation of it or not - there should NEVER be a question.

Does a mouse or keyboard require "other software"? The answer is yes. Does having a mouse and keyboard give you an unfair advantage in Runescape? Over a player who has neither mouse or keyboard, yes. Is using a mouse or keyboard against the rules? Technically yes. Should it be? No. That's why someone suggested they re-word the rule. This has nothing to do with the rapid clicking. This is only, and I repeat, only, about the poor wording of the rule which designates the use of pretty much anything from operating systems to drivers, basic essential necessities, as being a violation. RS requires a mouse to play, so I fail to see why you bring up that having a mouse gives you a advantage over people who do not. Thank you, you just reinforced my point precisely. Runescape, more or less, requires an operating system. It requires a mouse, a keyboard, and much, much more. And all of these entail "other software." All I'm bringing up is that the rule isn't at all clear about what's valid and what's invalid. Rather than simply saying "any other software," it should be detailed, so we don't need to have ridiculous discussions over what's permissible and what's not. The fact that us, players, are debating over what the rule means shows that Jagex didn't do a thorough job in writing the rules.

Wait, are you saying that if you program a macro to do 500 clicks/sec you should be banned, but if you do it with a special mouse, it suddenly is okay? Clear enough? Are your eyes on? Yes? Good. How about your brain? All working now? Good. Let's try this again. All input devices require software to be functional, just to appropriately interpret the signals you send. Mouses and keyboards are input devices. They will not work without appropriate third party software. Mouses and keyboards provide an unfair advantage over those who do not have them. Obviously. Therefore, by using any mouse or keyboard, you are using third party software to gain an advantage over those who do not use them. This is the point that was brought up a few pages ago. The poster believes, and I agree, that the rule isn't very well-written. Commercially available hardware and their appropriate drivers should be permissible, and hence, he made an attempt at rewriting the rule. Another poster mentioned that some players assemble their own computers from components, and thus would still wrongfully be in the violation of the rule. He pointed out that whether or not the rule is changed, those who assemble their computers themselves are pretty much inherently breaking said rule by playing Runescape with it. There was some confusion over this, and I'm just trying to restate what he said in simpler terms. This has nothing to do with the special mouse or the player in the video. This has nothing to do with whether something is allowed or not, this has only to do with the wording of the rule. Take the time to actually trace quotes back and read the responses before making random accusations. #-o Your logic is flawed It means you cant use anything that will input a click that you did not click Mouse 1 clicks 1 time per real life click Mouse 2 clicks 9001 times per real life click Mouse 2 is bannable Okay, maybe your eyes and brain aren't on. Please, read the damn rule. Does a mouse or keyboard require "other software"? The answer is yes. Does having a mouse and keyboard give you an unfair advantage in Runescape? Over a player who has neither mouse or keyboard, yes. Is using a mouse or keyboard against the rules? Technically yes. Should it be? No. That's why someone suggested they re-word the rule. This has nothing to do with the rapid clicking. This is only, and I repeat, only, about the poor wording of the rule which designates the use of pretty much anything from operating systems to drivers, basic essential necessities, as being a violation.

Wait, are you saying that if you program a macro to do 500 clicks/sec you should be banned, but if you do it with a special mouse, it suddenly is okay? Clear enough? Are your eyes on? Yes? Good. How about your brain? All working now? Good. Let's try this again. All input devices require software to be functional, just to appropriately interpret the signals you send. Mouses and keyboards are input devices. They will not work without appropriate third party software. Mouses and keyboards provide an unfair advantage over those who do not have them. Obviously. Therefore, by using any mouse or keyboard, you are using third party software to gain an advantage over those who do not use them. This is the point that was brought up a few pages ago. The poster believes, and I agree, that the rule isn't very well-written. Commercially available hardware and their appropriate drivers should be permissible, and hence, he made an attempt at rewriting the rule. Another poster mentioned that some players assemble their own computers from components, and thus would still wrongfully be in the violation of the rule. He pointed out that whether or not the rule is changed, those who assemble their computers themselves are pretty much inherently breaking said rule by playing Runescape with it. There was some confusion over this, and I'm just trying to restate what he said in simpler terms. This has nothing to do with the special mouse or the player in the video. This has nothing to do with whether something is allowed or not, this has only to do with the wording of the rule. Take the time to actually trace quotes back and read the responses before making random accusations.

So now you also believe we all should be banned for having 3rd party software because we installed mouse drivers? No, he's saying that Jagex should, for starters, re-write the rule so that using mouse drivers is NOT a violation of the rule. There may be a small population that technically still violates the rule by building their own hardware, but that's no different than it is now. Basically, his suggestion would reduce the amount of innocent "rulebreakers."

On the fact of it's legality, I doubt Jagex will consider this illegal considering they allow programmable keyboards to be used like mine, where I can assign any keys in any order I like to make doing things like dropping one flowing pattern of keystrokes. But he is not doing that. what he is doing is tricking the game into thinking he is clicking the mouse x number of times a second when in fact he is holding down one button. Assigning keys is perfectly legal as you have to manually press them in order for an action to take place. Are you sure that's the case? My understanding was that he was assigning multiple buttons to being a left click button, and simply swiping his finger along those buttons. Like, if the keys A, Z, S, X, D, and C were all left click buttons, you could easily strike all 6 and essentially click 6 times in quick succession, much faster than you would be able to normally, but you're still pressing all 6 keys. Well he manages to click 28 herbs in 0.9 seconds, while moving the mouse along all the herbs. It surely is not possible to hit or press buttons that quickly. If it was maybe 5 or 6 then it would be possible, but 28 is not. Well, after looking up the mouse in question, I'm completely at loss to understand what the player was doing in the video. However, it's still potentially possible to do this with nothing but a mouse and hardware. I don't know how many of you are familiar with weapons, but, for example, you can turn a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic weapon fairly easily. Instead of pulling the trigger once per shot, you pull it and hold it and it continues firing. This is illegal, of course, but if you were capable of doing something similar with a mouse, you'd have something quite similar to what happens in this video, correct? So yes, if you were willing to put the effort into disassembling your mouse and adding a few small parts, you could get this auto click feature purely with hardware, no software additions. Configure mousekeys appropriately for precise cursor movements, and you've got this video without the need for a fancy mouse.

On the fact of it's legality, I doubt Jagex will consider this illegal considering they allow programmable keyboards to be used like mine, where I can assign any keys in any order I like to make doing things like dropping one flowing pattern of keystrokes. But he is not doing that. what he is doing is tricking the game into thinking he is clicking the mouse x number of times a second when in fact he is holding down one button. Assigning keys is perfectly legal as you have to manually press them in order for an action to take place. Are you sure that's the case? My understanding was that he was assigning multiple buttons to being a left click button, and simply swiping his finger along those buttons. Like, if the keys A, Z, S, X, D, and C were all left click buttons, you could easily strike all 6 and essentially click 6 times in quick succession, much faster than you would be able to normally, but you're still pressing all 6 keys.

So, I was disappointed when several of the names I've been waiting for for a long time weren't opened. Then I found that SylvesterOak was available. Was extremely tempted, until my brother suggested Dracula (my name's a reference to Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow anyways). I figured he was kidding, but... All hail Lord Dracula?

Why would Jagex refer to a paradigm that most of its player base wouldn't understand? Exactly, I have no idea what Pulli said. But what I take From the J Mod's post is that because it takes one click to clean a herb, a person much make one click to clean every herb. I don't care about your black boxes and paradigms. All I see is using a program to convert one input to 28 outputs. Let me ask you this instead. Hypothetically, this weekend, I purchase 7 standard mouses. Then, I disassemble said mouses. With my (basic) woodworking skills, I fashion a rack to hold the left click keys, as well as the appropriate hardware components from inside the mouses, in a precise and carefully measured pattern. My laptop has the capability of utilizing more than one mouse at once, so I attach my trackball mouse and position it on the left, and this new made rack on the right. I roll my right index finger from left to right along the panel, hitting all 7 keys, while i scroll the mouse down with my left hand (slightly ambidextrous when it comes to mouses, but don't ask me to write left-handed ;)). The result is, within the space of about a quarter of a second, I "clicked" all 7 of the herbs in one column. This is exactly what the player in the video is doing, albeit, with a fancy mouse with keyboard keys + mousekeys, instead of the dis- and re-assembly of seven individual mouses. There's no software involved beyond mousekeys, which Jagex has confirmed permissible, and isn't necessary anyways. The problem is that fletching bolts and cleaning herbs is dependent purely on how fast you can click. This means arranging your hardware, or better hardware, that allows you to click faster will get you a significant advantage. If you feel this is an injustice, then the blame is purely upon the mechanic that is biased towards those who can click faster. Add a cool down with an animation, like with all the ___-X abilities, and you don't have a problem anymore.

I use a Logitech Trackman Marble Mouse. A mouse like this allows me to easily move my cursor from one side of the screen to the other. I've used this mouse for years now, and I find that it improves both precision and speed, and eliminates any chance of, say, moving the mouse too far and dropping it off the table. It takes less effort to use (one finger rather than the whole hand). So, when it comes to hardware (and associated, built-in software), can you really call better hardware cheating? And if we're going to declare extremely effective pieces of hardware cheating, where is this line? Technology, and thus hardware, slowly evolves over time - are we going to force players to find themselves another mouse, or deprive them of the right to use a mouse they already own because it's better? If you read the description of the video: This isn't automation. This is him using the design of his mouse to play in a more efficient manner, not unlike how I use a more unusual mouse myself to minimize the amount of motion necessary for the same effect. Yes, it is quite an advantage, possibly unfair to those who can't afford the quality hardware necessary, but that's true of a lot of hardware used for Runescape. Many of you have decent resolution and don't even realize the advantage it confers to you - my brother tried to use his Acer computer and the small screen reduced visibility significantly, making it much harder to see and pick up items, or see and attack monsters. Should we prohibit high resolution play because a player with a large screen can target a monster from a longer distance than players with small screens? I think the fact that it's possible to get upwards of 2.8M Fletching experience off Adamant Bolts or 248K Herblore experience off Grimy Dwarfweeds in a single hour is a testament to the fact that Jagex should change the process of cleaning herbs / fletching bolts. It shouldn't be a clicking contest, with players who find inventive ways to click faster being able to do it faster. Either you, or I, grossly misread the description. Mouse keys includes a "click" button. If he's quickly rolling his fingers back and forth, he's not using a program to convert one input into 28 outputs. He's compressing several inputs into one fluid motion, allowing him to make these inputs much, much faster.

Level 50s can already kill the KBD solo if built correctly.

I started playing in 2003 as well. Over the past 6-7 years I've played on and off, and seen quite a few extraordinary changes. Do you remember when 99 cooking was revered? When a cooked lobster was worth more than a raw lobster? When cooking took 2 clicks per piece of raw food, plus making your own fire as the Rogue's Den wasn't around? This won't be the last time something was made easier, and it sure as hell isn't the first time. If the bonus XP weekends occur frequently, it would be a major problem. If it weren't for the turmoil in the markets of various raw materials, it happening once a year or so isn't too bad a thing either. As it stands, I'd rather not suffer this again, but it most definitely is not the worst update ever.

"Selfish"? How's it selfish to be unperturbed by a skill becoming easier, especially when it's something that's happened over and over again?

I didn't even realize you still played. o.O

You don't get 2x the normal XP rate for the first three hours, you start at 2.7 and it decreases gradually. 2.7 is not 2. Is it math or credibility that's failing here? I'm going to go with the former. Also, I'd just like to point out that with an average of ~1.9x normal XP (which is higher than it really is), 10 hours of solid summoning training, at 2000 pouches per hour, that's 20,000 charms being used and only gaining an extra 18,000 charms worth of XP. If anyone has 20,000 charms saved it's a pretty fair bet that they can collect at least 100 per hour. That saves 180 hours... that's not "hundreds of hours" as whoever you quoted stated. Seeing as I collect ~190 charms per hour easily and I'm nowhere near the fastest, and this is without familiarization, whoever you quoted really knows his exaggeration.

I didn't realize summoning and herblore ingredients were discontinued... Must be a fluke that I collected my own hundreds of water talismans, obsidian charms, and yak hides. Right? The only thing that you've said that I can agree with is that I hope this is the only weekend. If it re-occurs, either it's frequent (which would essentially be saying "only train every other weekend"), or it's infrequent which would contribute further to the turbulent item markets in this game...

Devaluing achievements is a worthless argument. What about Cook-X and cooking? String-X and fletching? Smith-X and smithing? Or my favorite example - when I earned 85 slayer, I grinded there slowly with a 10K average XP/hour rate. There were no whips yet, super attack and strength potions were a luxury, Guthans was 16M a set, there were no familiars, no black masks, no crossbows, no Slayer Points with fancy rewards. Most people didn't even have high combat stats. I stopped training not long after 85 and throughout several years, only gained enough XP to reach 88. Strykewyrms comes out, and 3 weeks later, I'm at 93. I went 93 to 94 in under 3 weeks, at a rate of well over 40k an hour. Did Pest Control and Soul Wars devalue slayer? Did the Black Mask? Did the easier access to weapons like Abyssal Whips? Summoning? Godswords? Smoking Kills? Dragon Claws? Extreme Potions and Special Restore Potions? Skills get easier. That's simply the way of it. That's why you don't train for an arbitrary achievement...

1. Constitution was used in Dungeons and Dragons long before MMOs existed. 2. That was more likely than not just the least important factor for this update, thus the only one they want to talk about now. The new precision greatly affects combat already, and the separation between Life Points and skills allows Jagex to finally make it an effective counter to increasingly high damage, as well as more combat special effects.

Make another account with that name now, and change it later.

All the names I want are still taken. =(

Selling Fire Capes has been a huge RWT thing for a while... EDIT: Also, I can easily manage 320+ Crimsons in 40 minutes at Chaos Tunnel Waterfiends, and I almost broke even as well.

The first possibility is with a direct increase. Before, with an HP level, they were severely limited because it was a skill and subject to skill limitations. Skills have two levels, a current level, and an experience level. They couldn't change the experience level because it was calculated from experience. Current levels are subject to degeneration and stacking issues. However, now that it is no longer a level, Jagex has created two new variables that are not limited by the skill limitations. This means they can employ a completely new mechanic - max hp = Constitution * 10 + Bonus for example. If they don't want to deal with that, the second possibiliity is easier. Say they release an "Extreme Constitution Potion". It raises your Constitution by 26, so now your max hp is 1,250. If they want, they could have armor do this instead, with an overload-ish effect of refreshing. In short there are many ways, now that your lifepoints aren't tied to a skill anymore.

That's probably a charge by the bank for a foreign transaction.

2k is beyond reasonable? I earned 2.6K in less than 3 weeks, despite essays to write, exams to study for, and using only Kuradel. If you have good equipment and skills, sufficient supplies, and a high APM you can gather Slayer points quite quickly. And the update actually changes a lot. The only item I know of that boosts Constitution right now is the HP Cape, but it illustrates a new mechanic that could make this game more interesting. Equipping it changes your Constitution to 100/99, but your Life Points to 990/1,000, allowing you to regenerate / heal to 1,000. A) What if a piece of armor were to have an overload (auto-refreshing) effect of +X Constitution? You could boost your Constitution to 109/99, for example, raising your max Life to 1,090. What if we were to get a Super Constitution Potion that raises Constitution to 125/99, raising your max Life to 1,250? Attack and Defense counter each other, but so far, Strength is unopposed (as is magical and range damage). Now, Constitution can oppose these in a similar fashion. B) What if new monsters could drain your Constitution? Imagine if the next boss were to sap your Constitution by 1 every hit. After 10 attacks, your max life will be only 890, stopping you from healing as easily. It doesn't change much directly but it adds a much more flexible mechanism that allows quite a few interesting changes in the future.

Edit: never mind picture already posted apparently.