Soma2035

I doubt it would come as a surprise, but when I mentioned the poll in-game to a few other people, most of the responses were along the lines of, It's really kind of sad that so many see this poll as just a chance to earn some money. It may even backfire, so many people stocking them up, trying to sell them when the update comes only to find that no one actually wants the Dark Bow.. What's worse is, I feel a lot of people really overlook some of the items on the list. The Crystal Bow really isn't as bad as a lot of people think - I still use it frequently myself, and I have several good options for the shield slot freed by a crossbow. Many people complain about Infinity, and completely forget that Infinity Boots are a standard piece of most magical get-ups, and Infinity Hat matches Ahrim's Hood in +magic attack. I don't necessary think a choice is "right" or "wrong", I'm just disappointed that people have skewed the results for twisted reasons.

Then make the trade, in trade. No one is forcing anyone to use the GE. :P I would do that, except most people who want to sell simply put them in the GE. No one in their right mind would go around looking for someone to buy it, if they could simply leave it in the GE... which puts me into an equally precarious position. In any case, this isn't meant as an accusation so I think I'm done. Either you understand, but don't care because to you, other players are just faceless pixels, you don't understand or don't want to understand, or you understand and are considering changing. I'm going to guess the first option, since that's the trend of the general Runescape community: "I don't give a rat's [wagon] if you think I'm rude." As Aahz once said, "I'm way past mad... I'm thoughtful." I'm not angry. I just feel the need to correct misinformation when I see it, and hopefully, since you sound like you understand now... well, maybe if enough people understand, things could be different some day. I get everything you keep saying except for the part that you view it as stealing. I still don't see how making money off of someones impatience is stealing. Well, when you take something from someone else that you haven't done something to earn, I feel that's stealing. And by "doing something to earn", I mean doing something that THEY enjoy the benefits of... I think we just disagree on the definition of stealing.

Then make the trade, in trade. No one is forcing anyone to use the GE. :P I would do that, except most people who want to sell simply put them in the GE. No one in their right mind would go around looking for someone to buy it, if they could simply leave it in the GE... which puts me into an equally precarious position. In any case, this isn't meant as an accusation so I think I'm done. Either you understand, but don't care because to you, other players are just faceless pixels, you don't understand or don't want to understand, or you understand and are considering changing. I'm going to guess the first option, since that's the trend of the general Runescape community: "I don't give a rat's [wagon] if you think I'm rude." As Aahz once said, "I'm way past mad... I'm thoughtful." I'm not angry. I just feel the need to correct misinformation when I see it, and hopefully, since you sound like you understand now... well, maybe if enough people understand, things could be different some day.

I don't think the flipper should be paid. That's my anger with this, he's done nothing to make the proverbial pie larger. An Abyssal Whip is currently 3.2M to 3.5M. I don't know automatically whether there are lots of people selling it, or lots of people buying it. All I know is that unless the price is a LOT higher than 3.5M, I'd rather buy a whip than do without it, or get my own. That's why I make the offer at 3.5M - I know that if people are trying to sell their whips, the GE will sell me one. If people aren't, well, I don't need it NOW thanks to the fact I can borrow one, and there are other things I can do while I wait. You buying the item from someone at minimum and selling it to me at maximum has left us both satisfied, yes. I'm not arguing that at all. However, had you not purchased it from him and sold it to me, either he would have gotten more money, or I would have spent less. This discrepancy is surplus, but it belongs to us - the two parties of the transaction. It should not go to an anonymous, unnamed third-party who did nothing to benefit either of us. This is my gripe with the situation.

Or... Buyer could just put in an offer for 10M and wait for the next seller. This is why I cannot, and will not ever view item flipping as stealing. No one is forcing anyone to be impatient with the GE. That's my whole point right there. The buyer could either a: wait for another seller that's selling lower or b: buy higher because he can't get it lower. This is all assuming the item is hard to get in the first place and would take hours to get at the lower price btw. That's my whole point right there. None of you seem to understand the concept of "Consumer Surplus." Right now, if I were to lose my Abyssal Whip due to, say, dying at Tormented Demons and not making it back in time, I'd go to the Grand Exchange and buy another. It could be 5M. It could be 7M. I'd still buy it. Maybe if it were 12M, I'd reconsider, and possibly get my own. If this is the case, then MY valuation of the item is 12M. If the GE will sell for 6M, my consumer surplus is 6M. However, if you buy it from a seller for 6M, replace the offer at 6.2M, and it sells to me, you have reduced my consumer surplus by 200K. This is why I keep repeating, it's a zero sum game. Anything you get within this system has to come from someone, and unless you return the value by providing some sort of service, then it's had a negative impact.

Yes, it does have to do with monsters, because that's where the item comes from. Do you think items just magically appear? Items are CREATED, in one way or another. It could be smithed, it could be a monster drop. In any case, forget about specific examples with regards to items. Think of it this way. I want to sell an item. I put it in at minimum, NOT because I need it to sell right away, but because I think it's worth less than that and am willing to sell at any price within the range, knowing the GE will provide me with the best price. You intercede and buy the item. You sell the item tomorrow to someone who is willing to pay maximum. Had you not been involved, I would simply have sold the item tomorrow to the person who was willing to pay maximum. This means the buyer would have gotten a better price had it not been for you taking a cut. Look at the net benefit. Seller - Sold an item, got 10M. Flipper - Bought an item, sold the item, earned 200K. Buyer - Bought an item, spend 10.2M. What has the flilpper done that deserves that 200K he earned? Had he not been involved, the buyer would have only spend 10M. Which means he's put the buyer in a worse economic situation by 200K. There's no "convenience" provided, because I, the seller, did not find the need to sell the good, and gained nothing from having it sold a day earlier.

It's absurd to think anything is wrong with this. How do you think online stock trading works? The only difference is the GE is free - the GE itself is a service, and should be charging for every transaction. And you know what, you're making it sound like the flipper is the scammer, but what about the buyers? They no longer have to search for a seller for hours, meet up in the same world, same location, and then make sure they aren't getting scammed either. There is no stealing going on here. When a buyer pays 200k of middle price, it's because they are willing to pay for the convenience of receiving that item instantly. No service my [wagon] - as if the buyer deserves any with the GE. Finally, there's no looking for a buyer or seller either way. Thanks to something we call the "Grand Exchange". That's the whole point of what he's saying... Before the ge you had to look for a seller but now with the grand exchange people are willing to pay more for the convenience of getting an item instantly. And I agree with him, you're making it sound like a "flipper" is a scammer which is just stupid. Scammers purposely sell an item to someone who doesn't know the value of something, but scammers like that really disappeared after the grand exchange and trade limits. Now everyone knows the value of something (in terms of ge prices) and if they're willing to pay top price for it then fine let them. If not they'll have to wait a few hours for it to buy for market price. All a "flipper" is doing is selling an item at a higher price because they know someone is going to want the convenience of getting an item instantly. Why do you assume that when people make an offer at minimum, it is convenience they want? When I sell my loot from slayer, I always offer at minimum. This is because the mechanics of the GE state that if someone if people are willing to pay more, then they will pay me a higher price than I have offered. My actual valuation of the item when I do this is below the minimum value of the GE. The difference between what it's worth to me, and what I receive for it, is known as "producer surplus." The GE's ability to retain my item is all the convenience I ask for. Taking advantage of the mechanic to seize a portion of this producer's surplus for yourself, or conversely, the consumer's surplus, is not providing convenience. What? I never said anything about selling for minimum or getting an item from a drop, this topic is about flipping :wall: I'm talking about the difference of paying market price for an item or paying max for the convenience of getting an item, that won't buy instantly at market, instant. I'm talking about any random person that's willing to pay more and any random "flipper" that know someone will so he makes his offer to sell the item higher. Not putting an item in minimum because you know somene will buy it higher. This topic is about flipping which isn't selling lowest and hoping someone will buy it higher, it's putting an offer in higher then you bought it for. And nobody is talking about you specifically so what you do is irrelevant. Also, flipping has nothing to do with what you get as a drop it's all buying and selling. Oh ya and stop trying to talk down to me by explaining economics, I know enough of it so stop doing it. Okay I'm sorry, but you're getting ridiculous. I know what we're talking about, thank you very much. Do you? Flipping is buying items, from other people, then selling the same items, to other people, and hoping to make a profit in between. If you really do know enough of economics, then you would understand. Which you obviously don't. The fact of the matter is, when you're trading between players, nothing is created or lost, so your profit has to come from somewhere. In this case, your profit comes directly out of the producer surplus of he/she who produced the item, or the consumer surplus of he/she who purchased the item. Many have claimed "convenience" as the service they have provided, and I am pointing out that that is not the case. You have no control over who you purchase your items from to flip, and there are many people who don't need this service, hence it is not a service at all.

Here's a real example of the point I'm trying to get across. I just completed a Slayer Task of Blue Dragons, using my excess Ferocious Rings from other tasks to bank my loot. I collected 167 Blue Dragonhides and Dragon Bones. When I approached the GE, I offered both at minimum price. This is common practice among Slayers, and it should be apparent why. I offered the Blue Dragonhides at 2,071 (2,071 - 2,289) for a total of 345,857. They sold instantly, and I received 358,716. I offered the Dragon Bones at 4,865 (4,865 - 5,379) for a total of 812,455. They sold instantly, and I received 855,374. Do I really care that I got the money instantly? Not at all, and I can tell you, plenty of Slayers like me don't either. We offer minimum because it's our way of telling the Grand Exchange, "Hey, just give us the best offer." Now, why do we do this? Personally, I have no intention of training Crafting or Prayer anytime soon. I gathered these hides and bones expecting them to sell for a fair amount. Now, there comes a point where we'd say, "You know, these hides and bones just aren't worth enough. I'm not going to pick them up." This point is our valuation of the product. Personally, I'd estimate my valuation to be at about 1,500 for the Dragonhide and the Dragon Bone alike. The reason they're the same, is that it doesn't matter whether it's a Hide or a Bone, it's worth one of my inventory spaces, a full inventory would cause me to have to bank and use up another Ferocious Ring charge. Let's just say, no one was willing to buy the Bones / Hides right away. Well, no big deal. I have plenty of money in my bank, and it's not taking me anything for the GE to sell them. It's not like real life, where getting the money sooner would allow me to invest it in hopes of collecting some interest. However, let's just say, for the sake of this, that no one wanted hides or bones now, but you thought people would want it tomorrow. You buy them from me at minimum, then re-sell tomorrow for maximum. Now, here, we have two distinct possibilities - what would have been, had you not interfered, and what has been, because you have. In the first, I would have sold my goods at minimum, and the buyers would have saved some. This is Consumer Surplus - the difference between what they are willing to pay, and what the equilibrium price is. However, in the latter situation, I have sold my goods at minimum - I have lost nothing, and my producer surplus remains intact. On the other had, the consumer surplus is decreased. This is harm. You are an un-asked for, an un-needed middleman in this very common situation. I had no qualms towards waiting a day to sell my bones, or in fact, waiting a week, because I don't need the money RIGHT NOW, and having that money RIGHT NOW gives me no benefit. Had this been before the Grand Exchange, the situation would have been very different - I can't just continue my everyday business, waiting for the GE to sell it... that job would fall to you. "Flipping" usually doesn't provide the convenience that it did before the Grand Exchange. A big part of the benefit of merchants has been usurped by the Grand Exchange, and by continuing to "flip", you harm people more often than you help, for your own benefit. Also, the difference between scamming and flipping is deception. There's a significant difference. I am not trying to accuse people of being "bad people" because they flip, I am merely trying to inform them that their actions are harmful to the rest of the players in this zero-sum game of trading. This is not meant to be a personal attack. As have I. I've invested in stocks, as well as mutual funds, treasury bonds, and others. Profiting at another's expense in itself is not the issue - the entire concept of a stock is that it's a piece of a company, which entitles you to benefits "x" and "y". How well the company actually conveys these benefits to the holder, and how valued these benefits actually are, play heavily into the fluctuation in the value of a stock, which allows for this.

It's absurd to think anything is wrong with this. How do you think online stock trading works? The only difference is the GE is free - the GE itself is a service, and should be charging for every transaction. And you know what, you're making it sound like the flipper is the scammer, but what about the buyers? They no longer have to search for a seller for hours, meet up in the same world, same location, and then make sure they aren't getting scammed either. There is no stealing going on here. When a buyer pays 200k of middle price, it's because they are willing to pay for the convenience of receiving that item instantly. No service my [wagon] - as if the buyer deserves any with the GE. Finally, there's no looking for a buyer or seller either way. Thanks to something we call the "Grand Exchange". That's the whole point of what he's saying... Before the ge you had to look for a seller but now with the grand exchange people are willing to pay more for the convenience of getting an item instantly. And I agree with him, you're making it sound like a "flipper" is a scammer which is just stupid. Scammers purposely sell an item to someone who doesn't know the value of something, but scammers like that really disappeared after the grand exchange and trade limits. Now everyone knows the value of something (in terms of ge prices) and if they're willing to pay top price for it then fine let them. If not they'll have to wait a few hours for it to buy for market price. All a "flipper" is doing is selling an item at a higher price because they know someone is going to want the convenience of getting an item instantly. Why do you assume that when people make an offer at minimum, it is convenience they want? When I sell my loot from slayer, I always offer at minimum. This is because the mechanics of the GE state that if someone if people are willing to pay more, then they will pay me a higher price than I have offered. My actual valuation of the item when I do this is below the minimum value of the GE. The difference between what it's worth to me, and what I receive for it, is known as "producer surplus." The GE's ability to retain my item is all the convenience I ask for. Taking advantage of the mechanic to seize a portion of this producer's surplus for yourself, or conversely, the consumer's surplus, is not providing convenience.

It's absurd to think anything is wrong with this. How do you think online stock trading works? The only difference is the GE is free - the GE itself is a service, and should be charging for every transaction. And you know what, you're making it sound like the flipper is the scammer, but what about the buyers? They no longer have to search for a seller for hours, meet up in the same world, same location, and then make sure they aren't getting scammed either. There is no stealing going on here. When a buyer pays 200k of middle price, it's because they are willing to pay for the convenience of receiving that item instantly. No service my [wagon] - as if the buyer deserves any with the GE. As someone who's studied finance... don't even try arguing stocks. There's a lot more that goes into them than you think. But just a few reasons why your argument is terribly, terribly flawed - 1) Stocks don't come out of nowhere. They're a method of financing a business. 2) A significant part of stock valuation is based upon dividends. 3) Stocks also signify partial ownership of the company, which conveys benefits dependent on the company's policies. Finally, there's no looking for a buyer or seller either way. Thanks to something we call the "Grand Exchange".

Flipping does not provide a convenience, because had the item not been flipped, it would've awaited the person who wanted it... at a lower price. And as you pointed out, most of the time you don't need the money right away, nor the item. It doesn't take extra work to sell, the GE does it for you. No service, so no reward is deserved. Do you do a service when you kill a monster and get a drop? No, you kill it so in your theory you shouldn't get a reward for it. But seriously you don't have to do a service every time you make money it's not true in runescape and it's not true in real life. Except, when I kill a monster, I am interacting with Jagex, not other players. My reward comes from Jagex, not other players. Please, re-read what I said. Trading is a zero-sum game. You start with so much wealth, you end with so much wealth. Monster hunting is not a zero sum game, because money and items are created during monster hunting.

Flipping does not provide a convenience, because had the item not been flipped, it would've awaited the person who wanted it... at a lower price. And as you pointed out, most of the time you don't need the money right away, nor the item. It doesn't take extra work to sell, the GE does it for you. No service, so no reward is deserved. That's what I said... can't you read? Why don't YOU tell me what I bought that I re-sold then? Throughout the past several months, all I've bought is... 1) Supplies for herblore, when I was training that up. They were used, obviously. 2) Supplies for monster hunting, some of which are still in my bank, some of which have been used. 3) Some second ingredients (and third ingredients) for summoning, which were used. I had 4 raw rabbit meats leftover, which I simply dropped. 4) Supplies for slayer (prayer potions, cannonballs), which were used. 5) Boltracks for Fight Caves, which were used with leftover waiting my next TzHaar task. That's really all I can think of...

Trading is a zero-sum game. For every 100K you make, someone else involved loses 100K. I don't know if it affects the system, it probably does on a much smaller scale. But you are taking from other players without giving them anything in return, that, in my opinion, is fairly negative. That's not true. If I buy an item while it's crashing at 10.2m then sell it the next day when it starts to rise again for 10.3m did anyone actually lose money on that deal? No they just payed more for it because they bought it at different times. Now if you do that by buying the item for 10.2m and selling it for 10.3m to the exact same person a day later then yes it is negative. Oh and the ge didn't really help flipping at all, if anything it made it less profitable. It was harder pre ge but you could flip upwards of 10 whips for 200-300k each an hour if you were good. Now you have to wait for a 4 hour limit using the ge to flip. Yes, someone DID lose something. Do you not understand the concept of a zero-sum game? It means the amount of goods in the system hasn't changed. Three people put their items into the GE for 10,200,000, and do not check again until tomorrow. Three people tomorrow buy at 10,300,000. However, because of the way the GE works, they each have 100,000 returned to them. Each person trying to sell the item receives 10,200,000. Each person trying to buy the item receives their item for 100,000 less than they were willing to pay. Input yourself into this system. You buy one from one of the three people on day one, and quickly resell on day 2. Each supplier still gains only 10,200,000, but one of the three buyers spends an extra 100,000, that flows directly to you. When you flip without the Grand Exchange, you are saving one person the time and effort involved in selling their product, and services such as this have value. With the Grand Exchange, where items simply sit and wait to be purchased and collected, you are not providing any service - just taking. For every 100K you earn, either a buyer or seller would have lost 100K, because of your "flip." This should be obvious - your profit from flipping comes from other players. As long as you are not providing an actual service that the buyer/seller actually wants, you are essentially stealing. [/hide]The profit comes from other players but it doesn't mean they lose anything. It simply means they save less. There's difference between losing and saving. If someone is willing to put an offer in for 10.3m and you got yours for 10.2m the day before then they aren't losing anything. It's not losing just because you got something when the other person got it for less. If that was the case everyone single person in this game would lose something when they buy anything. And your little it about services at the end is flawed because you said they put the offer in for 10.3m therefore they want it..... Do you honestly go and DO something every time you sell an item? I guarantee you've "flipped" something simply by reselling it at a later date after using it without knowing (if you haven't that means you've never sold an item for more then you bought it for....). That's basically what flipping is, selling something at a later time for more because prices have changed. First of all, I don't buy anything that I don't need. Anything I buy, I keep, or use, or occasionally, lose. Anything I sell, I either found it or made it myself. So your guarantee is wrong as far as I recall, I don't ever remember buying anything to resell. Also, I think you misunderstand me. I'm using the word "lose" in an economics sense, which simply means you're worse off than you would have been in the hypothetical situation. That is, in this scenario, if event x had not happened, you would have 500K. Because event x happened, you only made 400k. This means event x caused a loss of 100k. If you aren't familiar with, or dislike my choice of words, then I apologize for the confusion. However, the fact remains you have had a negative impact. You entered the system, and in the hypothetical situation where you were not present, at least one of the parties involved would have been in a better position than they are now, after your involvement, and you have given nothing in return.

Trading is a zero-sum game. For every 100K you make, someone else involved loses 100K. I don't know if it affects the system, it probably does on a much smaller scale. But you are taking from other players without giving them anything in return, that, in my opinion, is fairly negative. That's not true. If I buy an item while it's crashing at 10.2m then sell it the next day when it starts to rise again for 10.3m did anyone actually lose money on that deal? No they just payed more for it because they bought it at different times. Now if you do that by buying the item for 10.2m and selling it for 10.3m to the exact same person a day later then yes it is negative. Oh and the ge didn't really help flipping at all, if anything it made it less profitable. It was harder pre ge but you could flip upwards of 10 whips for 200-300k each an hour if you were good. Now you have to wait for a 4 hour limit using the ge to flip. Yes, someone DID lose something. Do you not understand the concept of a zero-sum game? It means the amount of goods in the system hasn't changed. Three people put their items into the GE for 10,200,000, and do not check again until tomorrow. Three people tomorrow buy at 10,300,000. However, because of the way the GE works, they each have 100,000 returned to them. Each person trying to sell the item receives 10,200,000. Each person trying to buy the item receives their item for 100,000 less than they were willing to pay. Input yourself into this system. You buy one from one of the three people on day one, and quickly resell on day 2. Each supplier still gains only 10,200,000, but one of the three buyers spends an extra 100,000, that flows directly to you. When you flip without the Grand Exchange, you are saving one person the time and effort involved in selling their product, and services such as this have value. With the Grand Exchange, where items simply sit and wait to be purchased and collected, you are not providing any service - just taking. For every 100K you earn, either a buyer or seller would have lost 100K, because of your "flip." This should be obvious - your profit from flipping comes from other players. As long as you are not providing an actual service that the buyer/seller actually wants, you are essentially stealing. At "heart", it may be the practice of a merchant before the Grand Exchange, but because of the design of the GE, you are no longer providing a benefit in return for the profits you receive. That is the key difference between the two.

Trading is a zero-sum game. For every 100K you make, someone else involved loses 100K. I don't know if it affects the system, it probably does on a much smaller scale. But you are taking from other players without giving them anything in return, that, in my opinion, is fairly negative.

This isn't really true. Before the Grand Exchange, trading with other players required effort. You had to find the player you wanted to sell the item to. You had to haggle over prices with the player. You have to meet up with the other player in the same location, on the same server, at the same time. And finally, you need to avoid scams of all sorts. This is the job of a merchant. He finds those in a haste to sell their items, purchases the item from them, and re-sells the item to someone who wants the item. Some merchants frequented the more popular banks of Runescape, others went straight to the source (the woodcutting spots, the new slayer monsters, so on), and still others gathered in the city of Falador, on World 2. I can't count the times I returned from a successful Dagannoth Kings trip and simply dumped the loot to a merchant, so I could split the gold and return to Waterbirth for another round. Or the times I found something in my bank useless to me, with value, that I couldn't be bothered spending half an hour to sell. Before the Grand Exchange, merchants provided a benefit to those they earned their money from - they spend the time and effort to sell our items, and were rewarded. This role has long since been usurped by the Grand Exchange. Now, merchants are just parasites - they don't provide any benefit to the players from whom the money flows. The effort and time they invest does not benefit other players in any way, they simply seek to make what belongs to others, theirs.

You bought a staff just so you could sell it for more money? :thumbdown: Should let people who actually need/want to use one buy them. Thats why i sold it :thumbdown: But more seriously, item flipping isnt manipulting, it's genuine merchanting. Also, i had luck in selling it, since they apear to be crashing. We wll fight with the weapons we have. [/hide] Misconception, "merchanting" is every bit as bad for the community as manipulation. As long as you aren't actually providing a service to other players, you shouldn't be able to take money from them, which is exactly what item flipping does. That's not true... Flipping an item doesn't manipulate an items price to make money off it. It's just buying an item low and selling it either the same day or next day. Manipulating clans take advantage of the system by making an items price increase so they make money. Oh and finally finished with fist of guthix for awhile. Now all I need to do is find something to use them for... You missed my point. It doesn't matter what they're intentions are - they are trying to take a share of the economic benefit provided through the actions of others. Using this scenario as an example, one player killed the Ice Strykewyrm for a Staff of Light. Players out there are willing to pay a certain amount. By buying it from the slayer, and re-selling it, he is taking money that otherwise would belong to the slayer, or the buyer. What economic benefit has he provided in return? Absolutely nothing. Players should not make money from other players without providing some benefit in return, and as long as the Grand Exchange eradicates the need for a middleman, flipping items is as bad as manipulation in that sense. Also, as stated by the slayer in question, he could only cancel tasks for so many Staffs of Light. Now that it is no longer an option, the next buyer on his list won't be receiving the staff for quite a while... This is also my last post on the subject here, if you want to continue arguing, go ahead and message me but we shouldn't spam up the sticky.

You bought a staff just so you could sell it for more money? :thumbdown: Should let people who actually need/want to use one buy them. Thats why i sold it :thumbdown: But more seriously, item flipping isnt manipulting, it's genuine merchanting. Also, i had luck in selling it, since they apear to be crashing. We wll fight with the weapons we have. Misconception, "merchanting" is every bit as bad for the community as manipulation. As long as you aren't actually providing a service to other players, you shouldn't be able to take money from them, which is exactly what item flipping does.

I give anyone this challenge if they think that jad is so easy no matter your connection. Get a satalite high speed service that has a time delay of at least 2 seconds then try and beat jad. Time delay is not lag, time delay is where it takes a certain periode for data to be transfered from your computer to a server because of a satalite and vice versa. In other words when jads emote or sound for attacking apears on your computer two seconds have actually passed. and then it takes another few seconds for the prayer to actaully activate when you click the button. I'm just sick and tired of people just assuming that you can get a decent connection no matter where you live. I'm just sick and tired of people just assuming that you have to have a decent connection to win against Jad. Jad can be beaten without prayer switching. Granted, it's harder, and requires good equipment, skills, and strategy, but that's what faces all players who choose to play despite a poor internet connection. Difficult is not impossible, and unless your situation is extremely, extremely dire. In the end, the amount of these people who benefit is going to pale in comparison to the amount of people who gave up, or were simply too weak and/or lazy.

Magic is not a secondary form of combat... I hate it when people say that. Magic is, like it or not, a secondary form of combat. That's just what happens when magic is vastly inferior to melee and range. Barring quests, I can't remember the last time I've ever used magical attacks without bringing a melee or range weapon along... How long until we get weapons with a magical melee option? :P Does the Salamander count? =p On a more serious note, one of the things I miss most from other RPGs is magical weapons. =(

Magic is not a secondary form of combat... I hate it when people say that. Magic is, like it or not, a secondary form of combat. That's just what happens when magic is vastly inferior to melee and range. Barring quests, I can't remember the last time I've ever used magical attacks without bringing a melee or range weapon along...

I couldn't think of anything until I saw your avatar. I could probably beat a machete-less Prinny... if I could dodge the explosion. o.O

I got well over 300 crimsons, killing ~130 Waterfiends within the 37 minutes I earned. I'm pretty sure you could do it faster, too, seeing as I'm certainly not the faster Waterfiend slayer around. It was kind of cool... I do think it'll be useful, saved for Waterfiend tasks and the like.

Failed slightly, but it's okay, since it rounds up to that.

This. Lunar staff is the only thing in the poll that I actually use the most (for fairy rings). :( Bows... we have rune c'bow that is better for the job. Robes... ahrim and void beats it. (who cares about repair bills since we are already blowing money on runes) Robin hat... armadyl / archer what your average rs player would use... Pet rock... it doesnt follow you around, you cant equipt it... argh, i hate rsof... Rune C'bow is not always better for the job. I still use Karil's Crossbow and Crystal Bow, both of which are considered "weak", but both of which are better in many circumstances. Ahrims beats Infinity, except it doesn't have boots. Forget about those, maybe? Infinity Boots are the boots to use as a mage. Infinity Hat matches Ahrim's Hood in magic attack bonus, and as you pointed out, doesn't degrade. Barring RFD Gloves (quest rewards that not everyone has), Infinity Gloves are the best too. Void is kind of weak for Magic, as you sacrifice several slots for the percentage boost. It's only used when you intend to switch to Range / Melee, in that you only need to switch your weapon and helm. Robin Hood Hat isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be either. Unlike the two helms you listed, it does not penalize your melee attack bonuses, if you were to use a melee special weapon. It's only slightly weaker than Armadyl Helm and 3rd Age Coif, but it doesn't require defense. I had a hard time deciding between Infinity, Robin, and Crystal Bow. I went with the Robin in the end, mostly because I like Crystal Bow the way it is + I don't know how it'll affect the degrading aspect, but I'm already regretting it since I don't have a Robin. I'm hoping Infinity wins now, I'd like some more colors for boots.