Soma2035

Good game. (I won, had a lucky start though, and was fortunate Necro didn't know much about one of my walls.)

Evidently, my time and what I have Tip.it time set to don't agree. :P Gonna try to figure out what time you're going to be back, I hope. EDIT: Upon fixing the timezone setting, it seems Necro made that post like, 9 hours ago. Should be on... but isn't. :\

Still haven't seen Necromagus. :\ So, I can't use Soma2035 on Shoddy. Soma2035 already exists, and I really want to say I'm the one who created it, but I can't remember my pass. I made a new one, it's called Reaper Sho.

You on right now?

I get a feeling this team is going to make me lose, but it's too fun to pass up on. :( Oh well. It'll still be a fun match. :D

Scizor deals with Tyranitar pretty well... and Latias doesn't even deal with Infernape well. Get a Starmie with a Timid nature with Rapid Spin and Surf there you go. ... I'm really hoping that's a joke. Tyranitar can easily take a STAB +1 Surf coming from a Modest Max SpA Starmie, thanks to its ability (Rock types get 50% SpD in sandstorm). Tyranitar can easily OHKO Starmie back with Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Crunch or Pursuit. Or, worse yet, set up a Dragon Dance, THEN take out your Starmie. Infernape also frequently carries Thunderbolt and Thunderpunch. If it uses either on switch, you have a dead Starmie. If it's scarfed, you have a dead Starmie, unless you're running scarf as well. The Starmie was for the Infernape still the only way it will live is either Focus Sash (Stealth Rock takes cover of it) or Choice Scarf which is only for revenege anyways there are better faster revenges besides that if they carry thunderbolt you can switch a Volt Absorber or Ground Pokemon (Only if you know it carries Thunderbolt etc.) even past that most Infernapes carry Grass Knot instead of Thunderbolt. 46.9% of Infernapes run Grass Knot, 16.7% run U-turn. Both of these put a serious dent into Starmie. Many infernapes are leads (read: no Stealth Rock damage, and thus working Focus Sash). Any other Infernape that's not scarfed is going to switch out... unless U-turn already switched it out. Bottom line, Starmie can't deal with Infernape nearly as well as other Pokemon. Latias resists grass, fire, and fighting, and both HP Ice and U-turn fail to 2HKO, meaning no Infernape set threatens it. Salamence resists grass, fire, and fighting, and only fears HP Ice. Tentacruel doesn't fear anything from Infernape either, resisting fire, fighting, and ice, and being neutral to bug. Starmie can counter some Infernape sets. Salamence counters more, Tentacruel counters nearly all, as does Latias. Starmie is outclassed as an Infernape counter. Starmie doesn't really have much going for it anymore. The only real use is a Rapid Spinner who can counter many Spin Blockers. Otherwise, it is outclassed in nearly every aspect. Maybe the only thing it's good at is dealing fast STAB Surfs, but even so there are better special attackers who can land Surfs. Starmie's a great Pokemon, not just a counter to Infernape. He has the defensive stats to pull off a bulky water set, and gets the benefit of recover as well as speed. Vaporeon gets Wish and Protect, but that tactic has its own upsides and downsides, and Milotic gets Recover but lacks the speed stat necessary to use it well, and has an ability that better supports Rest. Starmie also can tank status effects thanks to Natural Cure. He's fast enough to be a good sweeper or revenge killer, and can utilize both choice specs and choice scarf well. He's got a very diverse movepool - Surf, Hydropump, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Power Gem, and Ice Beam to name the primary offensive moves, and has Thunderwave, Toxic, Rapid spin, Reflect, Light Screen as support moves. Starmie has its place. But it's not as an Infernape counter.

It was just examples of how that could be. I don't assume every item has only 1 purpose. I use Karil alot, and all other armoury. Still, the point stands - it's very difficult to value items according to usefulness, when what is useful fluctuates greatly. Think about Guthans. It was less than 10 million before the fight caves were released, because while it was good, it was really never necessary. After the fight caves came out, it shot up to 16 million a set. Now look at today's metagame. We have healing familiars, Enhanced Excalibur, and Saradomin Godsword as prominent healing methods. What if tomorrow, Onyx Bolts were made much easier to get? All of a sudden, Guthans takes another hit as far as "usefulness" goes. Usefulness can not be accurately gauged because it fluctuates wildly, just like Grand Exchange prices. Realize that Grand Exchange prices themselves are determined by usefulness - how useful a player perceives an item is obviously factored into the value a player places upon an item, in that you would not buy an item useless to you, but you would be willing to pay more for a item useful to you.

You made it sound like something or someone generated the true value lol. Well i think Armadyl chestplate should have higher value than Rune platebody, and that's why i will stick to what i said...a flaw in the system. Don't get why you don't see that. If you look at usefulness, Armadyl chestplate is more useful than Rune platebody and that's what true value should be based on from my view. Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. An Armadyl Chestplate is NOT more useful than a Rune Platebody. I can tell you for a fact that, given those two pieces of armor, and ONLY those two pieces of armor, I would be using the Rune Platebody far more than I'd be using the Armadyl Chestplate. An item's usefulness is not fixed. I know many players who would find a Rune Platebody more useful, and many players who would find an Armadyl Chestplate more useful. The only real separating factor is player-perceived value, which is irrelevant, because it can change radically. Good point, i did not see it from the other perspective. But if you view the items true value based on how good it is for the thing it is designed for? Wouldn't that be right? Example of what i mean. Armadyl chestplate protecting over Rune platebody (Armadyl has higher use than Rune platebody for the groups that use them) Bandos protecting over Karil's top (Because Bandos is more valued in usefulness for meleers than Karil is for Rangers, >Armadyl being the most useful for rangers). Get what i mean? Wouldn't that work? Why is Armadyl for rangers? Why is Karils for rangers? While slaying waterfiends months ago, I saw multiple people using melee attacks while wearing those two sets of armors. Which one is better? Armadyl supplies more defense and more prayer, but at the cost of attack bonus. Karils doesn't penalize attack, but gives less defense and prayer. How can you say for certain which is better? You assume every item has only 1 purpose, which is not true. Not to mention, what happens if a new armor is added tomorrow that's cheap, better defense than Armadyl, better prayer bonus, but with the same penalties? Now Karils will certainly be more useful than Armadyl, because Karils fills a different niche, and Armadyl is severely outclassed in its own niche. What about items just for looks?

You made it sound like something or someone generated the true value lol. Well i think Armadyl chestplate should have higher value than Rune platebody, and that's why i will stick to what i said...a flaw in the system. Don't get why you don't see that. If you look at usefulness, Armadyl chestplate is more useful than Rune platebody and that's what true value should be based on from my view. Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. An Armadyl Chestplate is NOT more useful than a Rune Platebody. I can tell you for a fact that, given those two pieces of armor, and ONLY those two pieces of armor, I would be using the Rune Platebody far more than I'd be using the Armadyl Chestplate. An item's usefulness is not fixed. I know many players who would find a Rune Platebody more useful, and many players who would find an Armadyl Chestplate more useful. The only real separating factor is player-perceived value, which is irrelevant, because it can change radically.

If Rune Kite had an in-game value greater than that of a Dragonfire shield, it would not be a flaw. "True Value" is the value the game naturally assigns. What you see in the GE is player-perceived value, which is different, and varies enormously. For example, which is worth more, a Left Half of a Dragon Shield or a Saradomin trimmed Kiteshield? At one point in time, the Left Half would be worth so much more than the SAradomin trimmed Kiteshield. These days, they're worth less than 100k. I don't care about G.E system, it won't work and i have said that many times. But tell me then, what is it that decides "True value"? Jagex. What else? The true values are nothing more than a number picked by Jagex. Sometimes, they're relative to similar items (Rune Platebody requires 5 rune bars while Rune Dagger requires 1, therefore Rune Platebody is valued higher). Items that come in multiple pieces, at least one of which is obtained as a rare drop, are generally valued very high (Dragon Square Shield, Dragonfire Shield, Sigiled Spirit Shields). Items that are sold by stores are relative to their store price. In the end, how it's determined doesn't really matter, because the price is made available to us to work with.

Saw it. Didn't look like it was worth $20. Instead, I went back and played Diablo. =p Also, while the graphical quality may be better, I actually found the graphics from Diablo more to my liking... the atmosphere was just better, in my opinion.

If Rune Kite had an in-game value greater than that of a Dragonfire shield, it would not be a flaw. "True Value" is the value the game naturally assigns. What you see in the GE is player-perceived value, which is different, and varies enormously. For example, which is worth more, a Left Half of a Dragon Shield or a Saradomin trimmed Kiteshield? At one point in time, the Left Half would be worth so much more than the SAradomin trimmed Kiteshield. These days, they're worth less than 100k.

Rune platebody protecting over Armadyl chestplate is a flaw and i will never change my view of that. Nice signature by the way. Why is it a flaw? Items are assigned an in-game price. How players value the items, and thus how high the price is on the Grand Exchange, is irrelevant. Trying to follow these values would be utterly ridiculous, because how players value items changes over time, and often times, how players value items is dependent on the game's value. You may disagree with the value of an Armadyl Chestplate, but that doesn't make it a flaw. If you really, truly care about the item, you would take the time to analyze the situation fully before taking the item there, especially when there's a clear warning NOT TO GO IN WITH ITEMS YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE. The system isn't flawed just because a player doesn't take the time to consider it.

Scizor deals with Tyranitar pretty well... and Latias doesn't even deal with Infernape well. Get a Starmie with a Timid nature with Rapid Spin and Surf there you go. ... I'm really hoping that's a joke. Tyranitar can easily take a STAB +1 Surf coming from a Modest Max SpA Starmie, thanks to its ability (Rock types get 50% SpD in sandstorm). Tyranitar can easily OHKO Starmie back with Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Crunch or Pursuit. Or, worse yet, set up a Dragon Dance, THEN take out your Starmie. Infernape also frequently carries Thunderbolt and Thunderpunch. If it uses either on switch, you have a dead Starmie. If it's scarfed, you have a dead Starmie, unless you're running scarf as well. The Starmie was for the Infernape still the only way it will live is either Focus Sash (Stealth Rock takes cover of it) or Choice Scarf which is only for revenege anyways there are better faster revenges besides that if they carry thunderbolt you can switch a Volt Absorber or Ground Pokemon (Only if you know it carries Thunderbolt etc.) even past that most Infernapes carry Grass Knot instead of Thunderbolt. 46.9% of Infernapes run Grass Knot, 16.7% run U-turn. Both of these put a serious dent into Starmie. Many infernapes are leads (read: no Stealth Rock damage, and thus working Focus Sash). Any other Infernape that's not scarfed is going to switch out... unless U-turn already switched it out. Bottom line, Starmie can't deal with Infernape nearly as well as other Pokemon. Latias resists grass, fire, and fighting, and both HP Ice and U-turn fail to 2HKO, meaning no Infernape set threatens it. Salamence resists grass, fire, and fighting, and only fears HP Ice. Tentacruel doesn't fear anything from Infernape either, resisting fire, fighting, and ice, and being neutral to bug. Starmie can counter some Infernape sets. Salamence counters more, Tentacruel counters nearly all, as does Latias. Starmie is outclassed as an Infernape counter.

Scizor deals with Tyranitar pretty well... and Latias doesn't even deal with Infernape well. Get a Starmie with a Timid nature with Rapid Spin and Surf there you go. ... I'm really hoping that's a joke. Tyranitar can easily take a STAB +1 Surf coming from a Modest Max SpA Starmie, thanks to its ability (Rock types get 50% SpD in sandstorm). Tyranitar can easily OHKO Starmie back with Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Crunch or Pursuit. Or, worse yet, set up a Dragon Dance, THEN take out your Starmie. Infernape also frequently carries Thunderbolt and Thunderpunch. If it uses either on switch, you have a dead Starmie. If it's scarfed, you have a dead Starmie, unless you're running scarf as well.

Scizor deals with Tyranitar pretty well... and Latias doesn't even deal with Infernape well.

How is losing 20M when you shouldn't have lost it (because "Items kept on death" system showed so) a thrill? Are you implying that the "Items kept on death" system showed he would keep the item after he picked up the Rune Platebody? If so, it is a bug, and should have been reported to Jagex instead of posted. Otherwise, it's part of the risk you willingly took. If you can't be bothered to analyze this risk, then either you don't care about the item, or, to put it bluntly, you did something stupid. This is not meant to be an insult. Everyone does stupid things from time to time. Your friend lost his 20M because he made a decision to bring it, without considering all the contingencies. He did not use the "Items kept on death" tool correctly, either. This is not the system's fault.

I think its going to go like this: OU, OHKO Clause, Soul Dew Clause, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, Evasion Clasue, Timed Battle. Not sure of:Item Clause and Species Clause. You can find the Tier List,Moveset help,and Shoddy Battle download here: http://www.smogon.com/ Item Clause isn't standard, and Species Clause is... so I highly doubt this. Also, Freeze clause isn't considered standard IIRC. If we are playing by those rules though, I think my team's already been decided... no species clause can be seriously fun. :D I'm familiar with Smogon, thank you very much. However, they're currently still in the middle of their testing, with the four suspects being Latias, Latios, Garchomp, and Manaphy. The last ruling was Latias OU, the rest Uber, but they're retesting at the moment and Manaphy is proving the weakest of the four, followed by Latios... while Garchomp and Latias are dominating. Hence my confusion over how these four are considered... EDIT Okay, a glance at the standard ladder reveals that the Freeze Clause is standard, as is the Species Clause, but not the item clause.

I think I missed the deadline by like, 3 weeks at least, but if it's not too late I'll join in. What rules would we play by, though? I'm having a hard time keeping track of the standard rules... specifically, Garchomp, Manaphy, Latias, and Latios.

For those of you who deny RWT still goes on, you're blissfully naive. As long as people are unable to buy or sell items in the Grand Exchange, RWT persists. Want a party hat? Find the right forum, add a couple hundred dollars, and someone will sell you it, mid price. There's even official middlemen on these sites to make your trades as secure as possible. Item-flipping attempt went wrong, and left you with 10 unsellable items? I'm sure someone will take it if you're willing to pay them. This is becoming common, even standard practice among several of these forums that don't care much about what's permissible by Jagex's rules.

Actually, they are useless, for the most part. Extreme Attack, Strength, Defense, and Range face the same problem that Super Attack, Strength, Defense, and Mage do - they get negated by Saradomin Brews. Unless you are in a PvP situation rather than PvM (competing with a crashing team for kills, versus just killing the boss alone or with your team), forgoing stat boosting potions altogether and just bringing more prayer / healing will get you more kills in the same amount of time, once you factor the time delving through waterbirth, or killing 40 GWD monsters, getting your teams together, etc. Only when you expect to have to compete with another team were Super Potions really useful. But kill speed doesn't reduce the amount of time spent waiting for a spawn, or time spent preparing for the trip. Extreme Magic would be good, except Magic has never been a weapon-of-choice for bosses with exception of Dagannoth Rex. Dagannoth Rex exemplifies the same problems that plagues Super Attack/Strength/Defense/Range - killing faster doesn't speed of spawn time, so time per kill decreases only marginally. It doesn't help that runes have gone up in price... Besides those... Super Antifire is still good, but it was never PvP related in the first place (items that prevent dragonfire didn't block DFS or Dragon Bolts last I checked). Special Restore makes me laugh - not worth the space unless you're competing for kills. Extreme Prayer is good, but most of the time, Super Restore is better since it allows the use of Brews. Overload is good, but the periodic hp drop can be fatal if it happens at the wrong time, and the 50 hp recovered at the end may be wasted if it happens at the wrong time. Do you see a pattern here? Because I sure do - these potions are useful only in the PvP situations that Jagex failed to correct, such as FFA Corporeal Beast or GWD Bosses, or as substitutes for their Super counterparts in activities like slayer... where you really don't need the minor bonus anyways, and it's hardly worth the effort.

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink. Actually, a lot of trading in Diablo II takes place on a third party website called d2jsp. The website has its own currency tied to you forum accounts, known as Forum Gold or FG. And FG enters circulation by, you guessed it, people paying the website owner real money for it. Lol no. In Diablo II on ladder people use Stone Of Jordans as currency and 3/20/20's on non-ladder. Or atleast they did. The two very big differences though is that the GE controls the price of items. They did. Unfortunately, trading on battle.net is a thing of the past, more or less. At the time I'm making this post, there are over 150 people on the US-East Ladder trading forum of d2jsp, and 100 more people on the US-East Non-Ladder trading forum. There are 35 people in the battle.net trading chatrooms for US-East Ladder. Keep in mind that this is being written at 4 AM in the morning, local time for that region. The trade limitations will do a lot to hinder trading. However, keep in mind that the crashing prices are already spurring RWT. Need a Bandos Chestplate but no one will sell it for cash? There are plenty of forums where someone would be happy to sell you it mid-price. If you send them $10 via paypal right after. Can't afford to find junk? Get compensated in USD or Euros when selling your item for mid price instead. Runescape's ecoenomy is an utter disaster right now... the trade limits, the holy grail of ending RWT, was only half of what it was made out to be - it stopped botters and gold farmers in their tracks, but actively encourages players to engage in RWT.

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink. Actually, a lot of trading in Diablo II takes place on a third party website called d2jsp. The website has its own currency tied to you forum accounts, known as Forum Gold or FG. And FG enters circulation by, you guessed it, people paying the website owner real money for it.

They're only 1k each if that's the most people willing to pay. If they're only worth 1k each to you and people are selling for 2k - 5k, you shouldn't be whining about it, you should be catching them yourself, or choosing an alternative to swamp lizards. It's not "Un@#$%ing believable" at all. Items are worth what people are willing to pay, NOT what the Grand Exchange says they're worth. If other people are willing to pay more than you are, economic theory dictates you must decide whether it's worth the price to you, and if not, then you don't buy it...

I'd still like an explanation for why other instances of non-combat skills resulting in combat advantages are permissible. The closest analogy I see is Piety (the following is meant to apply only to the Extreme Attack, Strength, Defense, and Range potions. Other potions are addressed afterward.) - To earn the right to use Piety, you need to complete a quest, and its pre-requisite quests, which requires several non-combat skills. To earn the right to use Extreme Potions, you need at the minimum, 82 Herblore. The concept is the same, and if your objection is that the latter is harder, then that invalidates your entire argument, as "harder" is a perspective - something easy for you may be hard for a brand new player at level 3, while something easy for me could possibly be nearly impossible for you. - To actually use Piety, there is a requirement of 70 prayer. Similarly, to actually benefit from Extreme Potions, you need Attack/Strength/Defense/Range levels. That is to say, two players with level 1 strength will get the same boost if one uses a Super Strength Potion, and the other uses an Extreme Strength Potion. You can use it, but to no benefit. As you level up, the benefit increases, but only slightly. The +7 advantage is divided over 98 levels, resulting in approximately +1 per 14 levels. The point I'm trying to get across is that it doesn't matter whether you think skills should be integrated or not, the fact is, they already are. Piety is only the tip of the iceberg. Ancient Magicks requires thieving, firemaking, and fletching. RFD Barrow Gloves requires cooking. Fremmenick Trials has its own requirements, as does the Fremmenick Isles. The new Hand-Cannons benefit in a similar fashion from firemaking - the higher the firemaking the greater the benefit. Agility has a HUGE advantage in bounty hunter worlds. Someone with 1 Agility can not use the GE without hopping, which means if they for some unforeseen reason need to purchase an item to finish a fight, they waste extra minutes of their limited timer. Which means they, and not their opponent, will be penalized if the fight ends in a draw. Agility doesn't count as a combat skill, does it? Finally, there's the fact that the potions are NOT overpowering. If increasing the max hit ever so slightly results in an overwhelmingly dangerous PvP environment, the problem exists elsewhere, and should be addressed elsewhere. As far as the other potions go, Extreme Magic has a major PvP effect, unlike the others. However, this isn't because it by itself is overpowering, in fact, it gives magic a necessary edge to keep up with other forms of combat. Rather, the issue is that there is no alternative. If, for example, Magic Potions gave +4 Magic and 30% Increased Magic Damage, and Extreme Magic Potions gave +6 Magic and 40% Increased Magic Damage, like the other situations, it would be fairly balanced. Super Antifire Potions are irrelevant to some degree, because they have no impact on PvP (you would think it would help against Dragon Bolts (e) or Dragonfire Shield, but it doesn't). Extreme Prayer Potion is outperformed by Super Restore Potion, as the latter restores your other stats, making Saradomin Brew / Zamorak Brew viable, as well as countering curses. Special Restore is an interesting case. They nerfed Dark Bows to prevent what was potentially the most "severe" abuse of this potion. Now, it drains 65%, leaving you with 35% (Potions restores you to 60, insufficient for another special.) In any case, I really don't know enough about it to say anything on it right now that's not entirely theoretical. My biggest objection is this whole attitude - handing something good to people who've been training herblore for years, waiting for their turn for a high level update... and taking almost all of it away with the other hand. And yes, almost all of it. These potions are essentially useless in PvM, in today's defensively-oriented PvM environment. In any case of PvM, so much time is spent reaching the monster and killing the respawns that slightly improving kill speed has little effect in the long run. Pretty much any monster in the game can already be defeated alone, and the benefit these new potions add is insignificant. More and more, people at places like God Wars and Dagannoth Kings don't even bring Super Potions; space must be conserved for Super Restore Potions and Saradomin Brews which extend your trip, thus leading to more efficient trips. What are these potions good for, then? Max hits? That's really all I can think of. I currently have 20 Extreme Sets + 10 Extreme Attack/Strength Potions, and no idea where to use them. The only one case I thought of is actually, ironically enough, PvP in the one instance Jagex did not think to correct: Free-for-all Corporeal Beast. I can use them in a direct player-versus-player competition to deal the fastest damage to a boss, and this is literally the only case I can think of where the minor boost is necessary.