helring

We find the god of corned beef and we feast!

Seems to imply that Tumeken's dream which created Het, Scarabas, Ampken and Crondis has literally split him up and that he can't awaken/reform without those 4 ceasing to exist - a feat that is perhaps impossible when they have been dismantled/controlled by Amascut and we have only restored Ampken for sure. (Maybe Scarabas too, but that's less explicitly dealt with so could go either way). Going more speculative and tangential: Also makes me wonder if Tumeken can divide up like that whether or not some of the other lesser deities (eg Karamjan and Fremmy gods) may not be related to him as well. Especially if we consider in Missing My Mummy we fight 5 Tumeken's Shadows in total to reunite his shadow with his body which could imply there are actually 5 facets of Tumeken out there. Plus you could logically connect him with Karamja perhaps in that the desert kingdoms were a jungle before Amascut went bad. If we assume the jungle of Ape Atoll is something akin to what the desert was (based on the wise monkey guys choice to live there) then there is a landscape linkage between the desert and Karamja. Also looking at npcs like the tribesman that seem to be native there is an ethnicity similarity to the people found in the desert. So all told it doesn't seem like it'd be too great of a leap to suggest perhaps Tumeken was trying to expand his dominion circa 2nd age into the equally jungle lands of Karamja and that the Karamjan deity is another of his facets with the tribal people there being the remains of his attempted settlement of the land. Thats an interesting idea. Or it could be 5 facets Het, Crondis, Apmeken, Scabaras, and the Kharid-Ib.

I'm not sure, I know a couple people looking forward to resetting their favorite skills, and at least 1 other that was going to reset everything. You're probably right that most wouldn't, but I don't think its fair to say no one.

If it was enough time for mobilization, then there would have been more than the already ready for war knights at the Bol, other than that each side only got a few others there. Them going into quick all out war is exactly what I mean by preventing full drawn out war. A quick war where the Gods eliminate eachother is better than another thousand years of conflict where they hunker down and build up their power base. The best thing for Gielinor is to settle this as quickly as possible and then move onto rebuilding again. " Guthix would not make someone a Guardian who was a) powerhungry, b) in posession of power Elder artifacts, and c) Trying to kill Guthix in order to either bring back a particular god, or steal Guthix's power to ascend to Godhood himself. " We can answer Guthix in ways that show that we're power hungry and want him dead to bring back our God or even wish to gain Godhood ourselves and he'll still make us a World Guardian. Unlikely, yes, but Zaros being Seren contradicts the lore. This theory fits with the lore even if unlikely.

It was not necessarily inevitable. It was true that gods, upon their return, would try to seek control, but a God War is a completely destructive, devastating, and full mobilization of one's forces. That certainly wasn't inevitable. The Gods could have tried seeking dominance through one-on-one battles (like the BoL). If Saradomin had, for instance, been able to kill Zamorak there, he may have been able to force Bandos and Armadyl (being much weaker gods) to simply submit to his will rather than be destroyed. So there were plenty of options aside from a God War, and even the Gods in the quest dialogue seem to share this assumption (as evidenced by their hesitance at Sliske's plan). As for rules. Sliske hasn't set any rules. He has proposed a free-for-all brawl, the most chaotic thing he could possibly do. So chaotic that even the other gods are totally weary of it and outright refuse Sliske during Missing/Presumed Death. Also, Guthix may not have known about Zaros' history, but it seems probable that once he knew Sliske was there to kill him, it was either to a) steal his power or, b) break the edicts (the only two possible reasons for someone trying to kill Guthix). Also, Guthix was aware of everything that happened within the resting place, and Sliske certainly reveals the Zarosian faction's views to the player (that they want to persuade Guthix to bring Zaros back), so Guthix would have overheard that and been made aware that Sliske was serving some god named Zaros, even if Guthix didn't know anything about Zaros specifically. So, Guthix knew. Guthix was aware that a bunch of zealots were charging through his resting place in order to kill him. Also, again, the point isn't what Sliske would want. It's what Guthix would want. Guthix would not offer a Guardianship to a shifty figure navigating through his resting place with the Staff of Armadyl in order to kill him. Your theory is based on pure conjecture (that Sliske would want immunity rather than godhood -- and if that's true, how would he even know that this was a possible offer? As far as I am aware, only the player, in his moments alone with Guthix, is told what power he is recieving, it's certainly not something anyone knows before this). Their reluctance (except for Armadyl and Icthlarin) seems to mainly be that its not on their own terms. The time limit under Sliske's plan would prevent full mobilization. They don't have time to marshal all their forces. The fact that the competition can give the Stone to anyone means that the Gods may not want as many mortals involved for fear that mortals will get the kill. I don't believe for a second that full scale God War isn't coming unless something forces their hand to act earlier. The rules Sliske has set is mainly the time limit and the statement that he will hand over the stone to anyone that kills the most Gods within that time frame. It sets a rush that will prevent the Gods from fully cementing their position and having a long drawn out war. The latest podcast said Guthix was never aware of Zaros. Maybe he did know of the name near the end. However, the quest shows that Guthix has no issue making a World Guardian out of a god's follower because he is willing to make you one even if you proclaim allegiance to one of the Gods. Perhaps he believed that Sliske had proved he could be a good mortal to fight the Gods. Who better to defend the world from Gods than someone who has set out to kill one. Ultimately we don't know what Guthix would do. He did trust Ocellus at one point as well. I just find it weird that Guthix would allow a mortal to become a God from his death. I also find Sliske's actions interesting and feel like him bringing Zaros back or trying to attain Godhood are too easy an answer that's dangled right in front of us. I completely agree that my theory is based upon incomplete information, and there are a million other ways this could go. I really can't wait to see what Jagex has in mind. I'm just positing a possible theory.

The return of the God Wars is inevitable. The most you can hope to do is set the rules at this point which might require pro-active action. We don't actually know Sliske's motivations at all or what he's been trying to do this whole time, just that he's been plotting something. Who knows, Sliske might view being immune to God Powers is a better deal than becoming a God and being one of the weaker ones. Guthix apparently never knew anything of Zaros, So would he even know that Sliske served a specific God?

The balance of the natural world isn't good or bad though. It just is, and maintaining it in times of strife could lead to some bad decisions later down the line in order to maintain that balance. To sort of jump back a few posts before, I think Icthlarin's choice of side is a lot of what Guthixians would have chosen. The best way at that time, to the best of our knowledge, was to get them to not play Sliske's game. A deadly contest for the Stone of Jas, regardless if it was really on the table, is one of the quickest way to disrupt the natural balance of the world. So even though novices might not be able to choose Guthixian, I think once they reach that point of learning what happened during TWW, it will put the choice you're guided to originally (icthlarin) into perspective. By 'good' all I mean is something that the person in question would 'approve of'. Guthix is the person in question, and he definitely spends his life desiring a balanced world, and as such that's something he would approve of and find good. Could Sliske be part of that balance though? Maybe a sort of anti-player character? 2 World Guardians in balance. I don't know. Ultimately though I don't think it makes sense that Guthix would allow a new God to be born from his death. He wanted mortals to rule themselves but I don't think he would have knowingly put another obstacle in their way. I think if he wanted to die without creating a new god he could have probably fixed that sword and killed himself, or had us do it once we became World Guardian. Unless there was something else going on, Sliske seems like the last person Guthix should have allowed to kill him.

For the most part I agree. Although I'm not sure there is much to say about sirenic armour anyway. Interesting to know with the rebuildathon that we can fail to completely rebuild lumbridge.

Oh, also a cool bit of trivia from Mod Timbo. Players in MPD sided with Icthlarin the most, Guthix second most, and Zaros third.

No. It's a fun scenario, but it's the most unlikely thing ever. Also, it would effectively trash on all the lore of the TWW and all the events that have followed, completely. Also, Guthix is not the sort of person who would lie to the player or mislead him. Sliske is not the good guy, or a closet Guthixian. It would be a completely illogical plot twist. I don't see how it would trash the lore of TWW. I think it would explain better why Guthix didn't fight back. I think Guthix should have fought had he expected that his death would cause the ascension of another God. Unless Sliske can't become a God. Guthix seems like the type that would want a back-up plan. He also only had a limited time to tell us what he thought we had to know, mainly his history and why he is so vehemently anti-god. Being a World Guardian wouldn't necessarily make Sliske a good guy, in fact many players would be directly opposed to the full objectives of ridding the world of all Gods in such a brutal fashion, especially the ones they follow or respect. No. It's a fun scenario, but it's the most unlikely thing ever. Also, it would effectively trash on all the lore of the TWW and all the events that have followed, completely. Also, Guthix is not the sort of person who would lie to the player or mislead him. Sliske is not the good guy, or a closet Guthixian. It would be a completely illogical plot twist. I don't think our World Guardian remit would be to collect super powerful artefacts where only we can use them becoming uber powerful ourselves and making a big bullseye for people to attack. Nor do I think it includes killing gods, we are meant to protect the world from gods, attacking them is just going to lead to wars and possibly more damage like the wilderness and the bol. And by all accounts Guthix is as much a pacifist as Seren, even in the face of the God wars he didn't raise an army or attack anyone. I disagree. If the point of the World Guardian is to protect the world from gods then surely we'd want to get ahold of all of these artifacts that could potentially create new Gods and prevent them from doing so. World Guardians are really the only ones that could do the collecting without risk of ascension or aiding the Gods further. A God war is brewing and I don't really see a way to end it without direct intervention. Better a quick bloody battle now then a long drawn out war of attrition that may have even more long-lasting effects. Sliske has laid out a plan that would effectively have the highest chance of the most dead Gods quickly and effectively with the least civilian casualties. He said whoever causes the most deaths of the Gods which means the Gods have to kill each other personally or else a mortal may win the Stone. He also set a time frame which will limit the Gods' chances of fighting over territory, artifacts, or just shoring up their own power. He's effectively created a scenario with the least chance of casualties among non-gods that their can be considering that a war is coming anyway.

Yea, looking now its definitely a diamond, but looked like a mist during quest while zoomed out to me.

Not mine but these were on reddit. [hide] [/hide]

Sliske the World Guardian? What if Sliske was assigned the same task that we were upon coming across Guthix and he just happens to be better at it. What would we acting strictly upon our World Guardian duties want to do. Gain control of elder artifacts especially the known powerful ones like that staff that kills Gods and the Stone of Jas...check. Kill off Gods...started with Guthix possibly upon Guthix's orders, check. Make a plan to kill off other Gods....check. It could explain why whether sliske is a god is so important a question. In the other cases we know of Guthix and Zamorak gained the power without even really trying, we don't know of any situation where the staff "stored the power". We also didn't hear anything when Zammy took out Zaros of lingering God Power. Could the reason that Guthix's power went everywhere instead of being absorbed be that Sliske also has the World Guardian powers? So when he was unable to absorb Guthix's powers it exploded out into the world?

That's what you get if you vote no. Basically, there's no reason to vote yes unless you legitimately think that the current solution is the best possible solution. Or, if the one feature you most like about the update (for me, the resetting ability) you think will get tossed out by Jagex in their rework. Send a tweet to @jagexjack then. Let him know that even if it loses you don't want to lose the reset ability. It might weigh in their discussions later.

That's what you get if you vote no. Basically, there's no reason to vote yes unless you legitimately think that the current solution is the best possible solution. Maybe thats what we get if we vote no. For all we know they'll scrap this completely if the no votes are large enough. The post was incredibly vague and left it open that the could do anything from scrap it completely to barely change it at all and release it as something different. All we know right now is that there are 2 options. We get exactly this or we do not get exactly this. We may get something similar with the problems fixed in the future or not but we don't know. If I could be guaranteed we'd still get prestige without the high scores issue if I voted no then I would, but without knowing that I'd rather have this than nothing.

Just to clear this up, Zamorak did not side with Saradomin to overthrow Zaros. Zamorak used his own allies and followers when he betrayed Zaros. The alliance came afterwards when although Zaros was gone his empire still remained with some very powerful mahjaratt and other followers that Zamorak and Saradomin decided to wipe out. They trapped Azzanadra in Jaldraocht and wiping out the Zarosian Empire and pretty much everything that remained of Zaros.

I agree, I know some tweaks could definitely be made and still keep the parts of the system that I was looking forward to and hopefully mitigate some of the issues people have, and I would have voted no if I had a guarantee they wouldn't just scrap the whole thing. I voted yes though because I'd rather have it as is than not at all.

IT's like that regardless if you supported Zaros in TWW because he's not really there and doesn't have an interactive presence at the Ascension. You're not locked into the choice, the choice isn't there because Zaros isn't capable of reacting or voicing his opinion regardless if an invocation of him is there or not. Actually, from videos of other people doing the quest, those who sided with the Zarosian faction in TWW had to option to side with them again (it says "Side with Zarosians (unlocked in TWW)). Those who supported Guthix did not. Also, if there is no option to side with the Zarosians, why are the Zarosians mad in the post-quest dialogue that you aren't siding with them? Seems silly if the option isn't there (although it is). In any case, you should be able to change sides, as you didn't know that Guthix would die when you sided with him in TWW (unless you read spoilers), and because circumstances have changed, and because the Zarosians keep allowed the possibility in their dialogue, they say they are upset with you because you sided with the Guthixians during TWW, but they hope that you will reconsider this allegiance and join Zaros instead because you have been a worthy ally. Yes, we had that option, I can confirm that. Although technically it says that we sided with "the Zarosians" and didn't say with Zaros. There was also a response that seemed to come from zaros like a feeling on our spine or something. I agree that everyone should have had the chance to side with the zarosians if they had either done TWW or joined the Zarosian faction.

http://services.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/content-poll---prestige Poll for prestige is out for anyone who cares one way or the other.

Maybe just general seasonal EXP gain high scores, similar what RuneTrack and the like do? Especially if they can count gains after 200m. It wouldn't involve stat resets, but the effect would be the same, right? Unless the stat resets are the main selling point here, in which case I've got nothing. Yea, actually the part I am most looking forward to if it does pass is the reset all skills and remax "achievement" that Mod Jack was talking about. I thought that sounded like fun. The only reason I started defending the whole update is I am worried that we may lose the system as a whole if its voted down and not just the high scores table part of it.

They may have worked harder at the time, but the point is that ultimately doesn't matter because even if someone were to work 15x harder, they're still stuck below those who finished first. They can never pass them no matter how hard they try. Jebrim may get 1b total exp but he'll never be the #1 person at agility, he'll always be stuck at number 3 even though he's earned that #1 spot. Removing f2p players from the high scores was stupid on Jagex's part. those people that earned their exp should keep their place on the lifetime high scores. However, there should be a place for people to actually compete for the number 1 spot in a skill. To show their dedication. That requires an unending high scores table of some sort. I want to know who is actually the top in each skill and not just the order in which people got 200m. I am not saying you can't continue on after you've gotten 99, or 200m, but most of the incentive to do so and the fun of it is gone. I know several people that were looking forward to it to give them something to do again. With this system you can keep leveling which to some people is the part they enjoy. Honestly, if this system is voted down, I hope they introduce it anyway without the high scores. At least that may be a compromise people can live with. Or introduce it as a second high scores like the seasonal high scores. I think Jagex picked too big a fight by saying it would be the "main" high scores when it seems to bother those who hate prestige and those who like prestige don't care if its a side hide scores or not.

Pro: Some competition for players on new high scores. A high scores that actually reflects those that worked hardest and not first Maintaining players who may have otherwise quit because they hit a wall. They don't want to get 200m skills, they just enjoy leveling. Player satisfaction for those who wish to use it Skills are worth more, which may lower some of the disparity between bossing and skilling. May bring in new players and help retain them because lower level areas won't be as empty. A new goal for those who prefer certain skills but not others where items like comp or max capes are uninteresting Is ultimately a never-ending game. Allows people to continue playing the parts of the game they enjoy repeatedly instead of making them move on Neutral: Gives new players more wealth, but also raises prices for them when they reach high level. (at worst this is a wash) Cons: Text box spam which appears for every update and is usually replaced within 2 weeks. Possible temporary pop-ups. Some people feel their achievements will be devalued. I disagree but others don't. I think 200m will still be a great achievement. Ultimately, I don't think neverending game is much of a turn-off for new players. Of the new players I've talked to in-game (admittedly a small sample) very few ever expect to even max. So to them the game already seems like its never-ending or at least that they'll never reach it. People play a game to play the game, and I think its weird to see complaints that there's no end.

I do apologize for calling y'all selfish though. I often get a bit heated in discussions and go too far. So, for that I'm sorry.

I have considered that, but both Wahisetal and Azzanadra basically regard Sliske as a traitor and as having abandoned the Zarosian cause in their post-quest dialogue. And supposedly Azzanadra is the only person in contact with Zaros. Unless of course, Wahiesetal are lying/covering up a scheme, or perhaps they don't know of some scheme that Sliske has hatched with Zaros -- I'd say he may in for himself alone (though he still carries the Zarosian symbols). Zaros, as the puppetmaster, may have several schemes in play at once to return. If I was in his place I wouldn't rely on only one scheme in case it falls through. So, I could see him giving Sliske one task and Azzanadra another and keeping them separate. This could also go further into the unpredictability of Sliske. Have even Azzanadra think he's gone too far and yet have Sliske still be completely loyal. Yes I allow for that option in my last post. I do think it would be odd, though, for Zaros to keep Azzanadra out of the loop; he's basically the most fanatically loyal Zarosian, ever. So it's possible, though, somewhat (not completely) unlikely. Azzanadra also seems to have a bit more of a noble streak in him though. Maybe Zaros wants to keep Azzanadra separate from some of the dirty work. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Creating an alt account wouldn't work as well as this does. I want to keep what I have when I reset, my clan, my friends list and my cash and progress. There's a sense of progression in the prestige system that you don't get from making a new account. This is an mmo, ultimately there are no goals except those which a player sets themselves. If getting a 99 gives you a feeling of closure even though you can get 200m then that's great. If maxing out the lifetime high scores gives you a feeling of closure and beating it then cool, they'll still be there to work on and won't change in the slightest. However, if you want to keep playing then prestige is a good system to do that. Its a new option, and doesn't take anything away from those that ignore it. At the moment once you get 200m you're done, you cannot advance any further which is a bad mechanic for an mmo. The pop-ups in the game suck. I admit that. There should be a method to get rid of them but I don't see what that has to do with this update. How is this system in any way "gamebreaking". It doesn't change really anything for those who wish to ignore it. It doesn't effect the lifetime high scores. It doesn't add new methods to gain exp quicker like squeal does. Why, because there's no negative effect for this vote. If you won't use the update at all then it still won't hurt you to vote yes. Its an extra option. There's no reason to vote no except to deny that option to others. They hoped to release it early november so most of the development of it is already done or nearing completion so its not like its taking up many resources. What reason do you have for voting no except to deny it to others when the Old Highscores will still be there and there are no major rewards for the new system like new armour, weapons or items to skill. I am telling people to vote yes because I see no negative repercussions of this vote going through. You lose nothing by not participating even if the update goes through. You can't say there are no negative effects when you outright ignore everyone who names a negative effect Your negative effect is that people will enjoy the update. I dismissed your negative because its based upon a fear that people will reject what you've done. If they choose to use the new high scores then to me it shows that the new high scores are a better option than the previous ones and should be implemented. If they do reject the new high scores then you have nothing to worry about. Either way, what you have earned will remain for others to see and will not be taken away from you. As far as Alg's negative, that things will be more expensive, I could see that but I think that it will help newer players earn money again. Right now the lower half of the game is dead because the majority of players are past that. This update could bring people back to that. The people racing for prestige will be spending a lot of money and lower level players stand to gain from that.