helring

I have considered that, but both Wahisetal and Azzanadra basically regard Sliske as a traitor and as having abandoned the Zarosian cause in their post-quest dialogue. And supposedly Azzanadra is the only person in contact with Zaros. Unless of course, Wahiesetal are lying/covering up a scheme, or perhaps they don't know of some scheme that Sliske has hatched with Zaros -- I'd say he may in for himself alone (though he still carries the Zarosian symbols). Zaros, as the puppetmaster, may have several schemes in play at once to return. If I was in his place I wouldn't rely on only one scheme in case it falls through. So, I could see him giving Sliske one task and Azzanadra another and keeping them separate. This could also go further into the unpredictability of Sliske. Have even Azzanadra think he's gone too far and yet have Sliske still be completely loyal.

Why, because there's no negative effect for this vote. If you won't use the update at all then it still won't hurt you to vote yes. Its an extra option. There's no reason to vote no except to deny that option to others. They hoped to release it early november so most of the development of it is already done or nearing completion so its not like its taking up many resources. What reason do you have for voting no except to deny it to others when the Old Highscores will still be there and there are no major rewards for the new system like new armour, weapons or items to skill. I am telling people to vote yes because I see no negative repercussions of this vote going through. You lose nothing by not participating even if the update goes through.

Bandos got knocked down to that tier after the Goblin questline though. So i'd say of the major gods that Armadyl is probably relatively consistently the weakest one. With Zaros and Seren seemingly having been tier 2 before their falls and still decently powerful since. Sara and Zammy still being tier 3 and Bandos only recently becoming tier 4 again. I'm not saying armadyl is a pushover, but he's pretty much the lower end of the majors.

I don't know, Armadyl is kind of how I expected him to be. He is one of the weaker major gods. A bit small but believes in justice and doing the right thing. A bit like Captain America before the serum. I think a lot of the Armadyl lore will be in the upcoming quest from Raven.

Thats the issue. I don't believe the probability is 0. Its very slim, but Sliske is unpredictable and handing it over may be part of his plan. We don't know and the other Gods certainly don't. Also, this may be their only chance to get the SOJ, which Sliske currently has. Its a major temptation even at low odds. He's been in the power game for a long time, but he seems more like a long term planner and if handing over the SOJ will work out for his longterm plans he my do so.

I'm not saying everyone will ignore the update. Some of us will enjoy it and some will continue to use the old high scores. But those who want to use the new ones shouldn't be disallowed because those on the current high scores want all attention on them. Its a new "option". If everyone goes to the new high scores then its a good update. If they don't then you've lost nothing. If its as popular in 2 years as you claim it will be then why try to get it cancelled? If people will use it and enjoy it then yes its selfish for you to try to veto it when your high scores will remain and you can still use them. Its like if a person said that runescape 2 should never be released because then classic will become obsolete. I never claimed that yes is conservative. Its neutral. Its saying that people shouldn't be denied this update just because its something that you personally won't use and that you won't have to use. The neutral option is to not vote ??? Ultimately there were 3 basic options. Old highscores, new highscores, or both. Keeping old highscores would have been conservative, replacing old high scores with new high scores would be the opposite end of the spectrum to what you're suggesting, and the neutral option is to have both and let players decide which ones they care about. Jagex removed the one end of the spectrum before even introducing it, but having both high scores is still neutral because it doesn't prevent people who care about he old high scores from using them and it doesn't prevent people who care about the new high scores from using that one. Both sides can play whichever style they care about.

Immediate thoughts: Sliske is completely unreliable, this is obviously a ruse, why would he give the SOJ up to any of the other Gods, No I won't play your game! But then the doubt sets in: Is it really a ruse or is he really willing to give up the SOJ, will any of the other Gods take him up on the offer, even if I refuse to take him up on the offer does that make it so the other gods will leave me alone, I really don't want *insert god here* on Gielinor anyway so I'd have to eliminate them anyway, what if I don't play that God does and wins the SOJ then they might eliminate me, if I eliminate them now and Sliske is lying well then my foe is still gone, what downside is there for me playing the game...should I do it and in case he's telling the truth can I afford not to?

By that same token you can earn more collecting those resources and selling them. If anything the update will reward skillers.

I'm not saying everyone will ignore the update. Some of us will enjoy it and some will continue to use the old high scores. But those who want to use the new ones shouldn't be disallowed because those on the current high scores want all attention on them. Its a new "option". If everyone goes to the new high scores then its a good update. If they don't then you've lost nothing. If its as popular in 2 years as you claim it will be then why try to get it cancelled? If people will use it and enjoy it then yes its selfish for you to try to veto it when your high scores will remain and you can still use them. Its like if a person said that runescape 2 should never be released because then classic will become obsolete. I never claimed that yes is conservative. Its neutral. Its saying that people shouldn't be denied this update just because its something that you personally won't use and that you won't have to use.

Ranks on the old high scores will still be there, just use that one. If as many people hate it then there will be plenty still using it. Oh no, you need to hear about someone else enjoying an update, how awful for you. Just use the other high scores. It will still be there. That extra click or two to get to them won't hurt you. Why does playing the game in 2 years matter at all? Are they going to get rid of the old high scores in 2 years? The effect on you is minimal at best. You can ignore the update. Someone else enjoying the update does not effect you in the slightest unless its just spite that you don't want them to do so. Holding back an update because you personally wouldn't enjoy it while your method of playing can be completely unaffected is just selfish.

I agree that it will pass if Jagex wants it to pass; their polling methods are anything but fair and honest. As to whether there needs to be a poll, I find your position to be extremely baffling. This is an update which completely breaks years of Runescape precedent, and is groundbreaking; the customer base has made it clear that they perceive it this way, and they have voiced their discontent with it. Even Jagex has acknowledged that the response to it as pretty bad -- the customer base making their voice clear on an update they feel to adversely affect them, and forcing Jagex, the business, to acknowledge their demands and accommodate them -- this seems to be the most benign thing ever. Isn't that what's supposed to happen? The runescape fanbase (myself included at times) is one of the most reactionary fan bases I have ever seen. Any change is perceived as a change that completely breaks years of precedence. This update is completely optional, and if that many people hated it then it doesn't matter which high scores Jagex says is the main one anyway, player could still just use the old one. What demands are they forcing Jagex to take into account...the "I don't like this optional update so no one should get to enjoy it" attitude is just awful.

for your first conclusion: I also think having a captured dragonkin was also a show of strength. Basically he was saying "Look what I can do". About your 2nd batch of conclusions: I think Icthlarin is important because Sliske deems him almost as his main or even only rival. Sliske's main power is his wights and Icthlarin has shown not only the ability to take them away from Sliske but also a willingness. I think the gods either fear the dragonkin, or fear those who can capture one, or both. I'm not sure if he has a longterm plan for the dragonkin. Probably not for that one but they may figure into his plans in other ways later down the road. In reference to the SOJ I wonder not only if he has it, but does he even want it. Part of that unpredictability is what if he's been completely honest. He has the SOJ and he's willing to give it away. I mean he said come to the party to get Death back and you showed up and he just handed over the key. The hardest part to him is we have no idea at all on his end-game or whether he even has one. Is he like Bandos in a way that the actions are the game and he doesn't seek an end. Bandos seems to seek war for war's sake, does Sliske seek jokes and tricks just for the sake of jokes and tricks? Is he still trying to bring back Zaros? I reserve my judgement on whether he's the best written god until we get more on him to know if he even is a god =), but he's definitely an interesting character. I read a theory about him, I believe it was on the RSOF, that had few facts towards proof that could explain some of his character. Could Sliske have been the Frenskae's death gone rogue? It would explain his control over the dead that seems so much more advanced than any of the other mahjarrat. He's a bit darker than Gielinor's death in a twisted sort of way. But that's understandable, Frenskae is by all accounts a much harsher plane. It would also explain his possible rivalry with Icthlarin, with Icthlarin doing basically half of death's job over on this plane. He appeared to be a follower of Icthlarin and then Zaros but thats not unheard of with Death on Gielinor apparently having a Guthixian bent. I don't know, just something that peaked my curiosity when I read it, had little to no evidence so take it or leave it as you will.

It could end in basically two ways if Sliske "wins" by his terms: - Sliske kills the remaining gods and claims the stone for himself, AND he takes all of them as his wights. GOD wights. From here, he either becomes a god and is best friends with Zaros, or he will claim Zaros with his own power. - Sliske is trying to kill as many gods as possible, and is going to use the eclipse to bring Zaros back, with the world on a silver platter, either by default, or making it super easy for Zaros to win. This is assuming that his goals are actually linear, and he's not [bleep]ing insane. Yea, I was just discussing that with a friend...what if the SOJ and the Gods competition is a complete ruse. Sliske is keeping everyone off of his real goal of bring back Zaros. As I think someone else here pointed out we have no proof at all that he even has the SOJ. So he distracts the other Gods and maybe gets a few of them to kill each other off. Meanwhile, waiting for the eclipse to increase his powers...and possibly Zaros' powers since Zaros is known to be powerful in the shadow realm as well.

Yea, but he could be trying to divide and conquer even more than usual. Prevent any sort of alliances like Sara-Arma before by planting suspicion in their minds. I can promise you that there won't be any alliances :P =) Yea, I just think there's more to this eclipse than Sliske is letting on.

Yea, but he could be trying to divide and conquer even more than usual. Prevent any sort of alliances like Sara-Arma before by planting suspicion in their minds.

If they attacked him then and there none of them could take possession of the stone. Except maybe Saradomin with his crown, none of them know where the stone is. Sliske didn't have it with him. Saradomin can only tell what plane artefacts are on, and there are only two possibilities: the shadow realm and Gielinor. It probably isn't on Gielinor. Fair enough, I was never quite clear on how accurate the crown archival was.

Does anyone else think this is a set-up for a much greater plan. Sliske is basically a master of the shadows and his plan apparently ends on a solar eclipse when the whole world would be cast into shadow. Will this boost his powers? He mentions giving the stone to whichever person has killed the most Gods at that point...could his plan be to use the eclipse to boost his powers and have himself be the person that has killed the most other Gods?

If they attacked him then and there none of them could take possession of the stone. Except maybe Saradomin with his crown, none of them know where the stone is. Sliske didn't have it with him.

In response to #3

I don't agree with that summation. I think it had a different goal than making skills go past the 13m cap. The only advantage of going past the 13m cap is to give upper level players more goals to do. Which theoretically they already have in the form of going for 200m. This system seemed to have the goals of an eternal high scores board where no one is ever guaranteed locked in at first place. More content past 13m exp wouldn't solve the 200m limit issue. It also seems to be trying to stimulate the lower levels of the game. At the moment any new player that does join sees mostly empty training areas and a pretty stagnant lower economy. I think the prestige system is trying to fix that some by giving higher level players a reason to go back there. With the current system once you finish an area there's no reason to return. Whether these goals are warranted or not is ultimately a matter of opinion but I think revitalizing the lower level areas and giving a better high scores table instead of just a table of what order people reached 200m are some worthy goals. How they went about it however may not have been the best way. Personally, I don't think Jagex should decide on either the prestige or lifetime high scores being the main one. When you click high scores it should bring to a page and ask which one you want to view.

Consider making a second account or subjecting yourself to the limitations that the prestige system would present. You aren't losing anything except for the possibility for a good rank in a hiscore table that very few people care about. If that is what you enjoy about the prestige system, consider competing in a seasonal hiscore. Yea, what I was looking forward to was the achievement for prestiging all at once and then maxing again. The issue with the second account is mainly my clan, they don't allow you to have 2 accounts in the clan at once so I'd have to have only one in at a time. I wouldn't have an issue if they would still bring out the prestige system without the highscores attached.

Don't know if its been mentioned here yet, but they've decided to put the prestige system up to a vote. I'm kind of annoyed at that because it'll mean that 34% of people voting no could prevent me from enjoying it.

a) likely your visible combat will only show in game as your combat with current stats (prestiged or not, depending on their current state). You can't change anywhere but bank areas so there's no need to worry about changing combat stats mid PvP or PvM situations. Effectively when you prestige you fully reset your stat. b) likely you can reset one stat at a time. I do wish all combats would reset at once, but they most likely won't do it. c) prestige highscores will be default. but you will be able to view lifetime xp highscores also. Just to add a little bit to "b". You can reset as many or as few as you want. However, there is planned to be an achievement for prestiging all at once and not turning any off individually until you've maxed again. You can turn prestige off on all of them at once but the achievement won't be earned if you were to say leave prestige on for everything except you turn it off for attack. this achievement is to recognize that its harder to prestige when you're working on everything at once instead of only prestiging 1 or a couple skills. There will also be a miniature one for prestiging all combat skills at once.

There's already some system in there for checks on what you can and can't do and for the landscape to change because people who haven't done the quest see different things. To me it seems like making the quests replayable is something they should have done long ago and the longer they wait the harder it'll be to implement it. Yes there are quite a few variables, and there will be bugs, which I expect with pretty much any content from Jagex nowadays. Bugs could be worked out over time like they currently do and I can't think of any that would be so game-breaking. So the player has stakes earlier than they should. It would have to be patched out but I can't see it harming too much. There have been so many game-breaking bugs found before in game that didn't cause permanent damage, it gets fixed and we move on. Like the runecrafting bug in dunge where people were getting massive amounts of exp. Ultimately, I think having all this lore content that can only be played once is damaging to the game. I know you disagree and thats fine. We have different priorities. Some of the quest reworks have been excellent, but I'd rather be able to replay the quests we have than get a new quest that I can only play through once. Jagex has made it pretty clear that they can make quests replayable, they just won't, and I think thats what annoys me most out of everything. They're willing to make these huge changes to the game that have a large possibility of chasing people away, but something like this that could help retain people is out of their scope.

I don't think the cinematics really do a very good job for the replays, honestly. They cover some of it but a lot still gets left behind. Especially because they don't even seem to have them for some recent quests and definitely don't have them for the older ones. I think they should put the resources into quest replays now because the longer they wait the more its going to take in order to do it. Quests shouldn't be one time things when so much is tied up into them. I'd disagree entirely. The core moments of quests are covered in cinematics and coupled with the recap npcs and the various books and such we get the lore is covered in ample detail, not to mention the great work of fansites at compiling information from across all the storylines and sources. Yes not all cinematics are currently replayable but they have said it is possible and something they would like to look into doing when dev budget allows, and that looking forward they intend to do it as much as possible. I mean DoC did it, we've bee told MPD will do it. Mod John A has already said he's looking into making the BotD ones replayable. Not sure if it got done but there was talk of allowing the druids to let you rewatch TWW scenes and the priest at bol lets those be rewatched. That's nearly every cutscene we've had so far this year replayable or due to be replayable. The coding, server space and effort required to make old quests replayable just is not worth it. It may work for some select quests (Eg Elder Kiln and Boe) where they are contained in instanced locations anyway, but for quests involving free roaming in the world the level of work required to make it replayable is just not worth the pay off. As I said in my original post, it's just not possible to be done for the vast majority of quests and Jagex have acknowledged this. Even looking to the future any quests that involve roaming over large portions of the world, opposed to the self contained corridor quests, would be ridiculously complicated to make replayable other than select moments. I completely disagree with that. Many of the defining parts of quests are not only the cutscenes but the interactions and the characters. The conversations you have along the way and the characters you meet. Many of the older quests didn't really have cutscenes at all, and those that do often have cutscenes only for a few big moments which leave out the majority of the quest. Quests are a major part of the game, they in many ways drive the lore and the story forward. If anything is worth the dev time its making quests replayable. I don't think you would need quests to be instanced in order for them to be replayable and honestly I doubt it would take up more server space than anything else. Yes a few issues like the stakes and such may need to be resolved, but if they can resolve all that for over 20 skills, then this could be done as well, they're just not willing to put the resources in which I believe is a mistake.