Ts_Stormrage

I have seen your argument before on this forum, and I have replied to it too; http://forum.tip.it/topic/248378-tip-it-times-18-october-2009/page__view__findpost__p__3925089 I am not crying about lost wealth or me being unable to buy certain items... But I refuse to stand by when a game I love has the rug pulled from underneath it...

You hit the nail right on the head, but with the wrong hammer... Yes, to keep up with inflation, you're you're now (or soon will be) forced to do some EP farming of your own... And doing this just adds more and more to the inflation problem... Already what we are seeing is people sellign things at highest price, because 'the items are all bound to go up anyways'... Your suggestion basicly makes the EP farming mainstream... Right now, contrary to my signature, I can only wish that we would live in a communist or even a social RuneScape... What we have right now is Capitalism at its best, which is basicly the worst for its people... In an earlier post (last one on page 5 of this thread) I explained with simple mto understand facts why what we have now is killing the game... All we can do is keep slapping Jagex in the face hoping that this drastic example shakes them out of apathy...

I'll take a jab at that one :) If nothing gets changed, no new (and continuous) money sinks are added and the EP farming is still the best moneymaker by far? Easy... Over time, prices of items that are not bound by their alch value rise to HUGE levels, and everyone will HAVE to resort to EP-farming (which only adds more to the current problem) to get the items they need... This kills one thing for RuneScape, and it is the one thing that EVERYTHING thrives on; The influx of new players... People see that they have to resort to EP-farming, and forego enjoying the rest of the game if they want their precious item... Newest of the new players see that they get 25gp to start with, and that any decent weapon costs 5m to start with, and realise that it snot worth playing... Once the influx of new people stops, over time, there will be less and less people playing RS, up to a point where the amount of dollars, pounds and euro's they get from memberships no longer outweighs the cost of running and updating the game (less updates = less players), so eventually they decide to either sell or simply stop running RuneScape... Yes you heard it right; what is happening now is a gamekiller, albeit a slow one...

You live in one right now, most likely. When was the last time you paid with cash, when you had the option to pay with your debit card? It's a similar situation, where the concept of cash is still the backbone of the economy, but the demand is for the item, not the wealth. And like you've touched on, it's because they made cash so easy to obtain. Though I do have to chuckle when so many people say, "It's 76king oh no!" Yes, it's that. But there are also many, many other methods that pump cash into our wallets with absolutely no effort. What about Fruit Falling at the duel arena? Flipping items via the grand exchange? Merching clans as a whole? And all the various other little get-rich quick schemes that, bit by bit, aren't too devastating, but when you add them all together...76k'ing is only a slice of the troubling pie that is the failing short term economy. First, using your debit card is cash. Think of it this way -- it's like noted gp. Second, flipping items in the GE does not "create" cash. Even merching clans do not make cash. 76k does. Alching does. There might be a few others. Moving cash around within the game and accumulating great piles here and there does not make cash junk. People getting rich is not the problem. Creating too much cash too fast makes it crashing junk. This +1 As said, the things that cause inflation are the things that create cash out of nothing; EP-farming, Alching, Thieving, monster drops and selling to the various stores around runescape... Everything else is just moving it around, trading cash for items... When you consider this, and here I am just guesstimating, Alching is still the #1 thing responsible for flowing cash into the economy, but this does not have much of an impact since it removes other items often just created to be alched... More over, the time to go from nothing to cutting yews, picking flax, and mining pure essence, to making it into a neat stack of noted yew longs and nature runes, does not NEARLY bring as much GP/hour into the economy as EP-farming does, but a lot more people are doing it, AND noone does everything themselves, so money gets spread around while this happens... The problem with EP farming is that certain people find themselves with 5m for 2 hours of "work", and this is nowhere near anything that skillig can make... Or, the person who can go from nothing to making all the supplies needed for, AND alching 6.5k of Yew Longbows in JUST 2 hours, has to show me how he does that... I would advise everyone to realise one thing; Inflation is caused in RuneScape by GP created out of nothing... There are factors affecting this, such as how fast it is made, and how fast it is drained (by, for example, having your logs turned into planks, or buying Runes from a shop)... I would advise you to read my Times article of this week (october 18) and then come back to this thread... Link is found in my sig...

TY fragg, for re-iterating my point about needing a stable economy... And swampjedi; Jagex has a large history of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. So even if they have a plan, I can almost guarantee you that there will be updates screwing that up too... Anywho, I've resorted to having a small sig made, promoting the Times of this week, hoping that enough people will read and support it, that a msg goes out to Jagex :)

Not all raw materials have gone up... Some raw materials CANT go up, because their end product is something bound by Alch values... You seem happy in this snowballing inflation where we are infact crossing over from "normal" hyper inflation, to a point where upgoing prices are a means to inflate a price even further (due to people thinking "oh, its gonig to rise further anyways") But let's look at some of the more common raw materials.. Since the PVP update, changing actual drops to artefacts; Mauls have gone from 131k to 316k (141%) Rune Boots have gone from 36k to 83k (131%) Snapdragon Seeds have gone from 49k to 80k (63%) Abyssal Whips have gone from 1.5m to 3.6m (140%) and Dragon Boots from 280k to 504k (80%) BUT Yew logs went from 454 to 479 (5,5%) Coal went from 175 to 197 (12,5%) Nature Runes went from 230 to 307 (33%) Flax went DOWN from 81 to 75 (-8%) Lobsters went from 255 to 363 (42%) As you can see, raw materials do rise, but not nearly as fast as your slayer drops... I could dive in a few more examples, but I think my overall point is clear... You have failed to read ALL of my article, and until you do so, I would prefer it if you did not reply to this thread again :P

It's not a matter of risking GP, but the value you are risking overall, including the items that you would drop if you died (which can include artefacts dropped previously)... Basicly, you keep X items safe, and risk the next (and lesser valued) items, and the total value of those items are risked... With 100% EP you can get between 0% and 200% of that value as a drop in Artefacts... Simple... Replacing everyone's Pure Essence with three times the ammount of Rune Essence is an AWESOME idea (can't believe that I didn't think of that), and is probably the best way to approach this... It removes all Pure Essence from the game (no new rares), Noone loses anything, and F2P gets their money maker back... Simply brilliant (btw, pm me when you see me ingame plz)... While they are at it, they should multiply everyone's TokKul by 10 (and not announce that they are goign to do it)...

Merging pure and rune ess and fixing them at a price of, say, 120 each, and announcing that they will do it in two weeks time will have these effects; - People massively dump their pure essence in the GE to rapidly buy rune essence, hoping to get a bit of extra cash, will result in both pure and rune essence creeping closer to the 120 GP per piece limit... - Both rune and pure essence will be worth roughly the same (around 120) for a short period of time, and while Pure essence is not mined on P2P, rune essence is all of a sudden mined on F2P cuz it snow good profit... - Runecrafters might buy the now cheaper Pure ess to make P2P only runes, which causes those to fall in price as well... - The merge happens and the price is held steady at 120 GP for two days, after which it is allowed to fluctuate again... - The Rune essence price will sink to the pre-merge levels of around 40 each... The only people shafted in this is are the F2P RuneCrafters who will have to put their hobby on hold for two weeks, and those who still cling to large piles of Pure Essence (an item which has only a single purpose besides being held for merchanting)... I fail to see the harm in doing this...

Deal... But know that large influxes of GP into the economy is what I call inflation... And as Deathmath explained for me, we've already gone way past a critical point where it starts to snowball on itself...

Thank you for the praise for the article, it took me a few weeks (yes, weeks) to properly think everything out and make a coherent piece of it, so much that I kind foi spent all my talent into this article (for now)... Your positive comments make it all worth while :) If you want to, feel free to spread this to as many people as you can... The more people that read it and agree with it, the stronger a voice this message goes out with... I'd like to address the issue of F2P RuneCrafters getting possibly shafted when merging the Pure Essences back together; RC was never a popular thing to do on F2P... Your best profit was in Air or Water runes anyways... But before they split Pure and Rune Essences, they went for between 25 and 40gp each. Obviously, bringing the Essence cousins back together is something that will drastically lower rune prices, including Nature Runes which make alching cheaper... Since then, autocasting using normal staves has been added, so Ice Bursting no longer requires a lot of Water Runes... On top of that came the Grand Orb Project which is a much easier way for F2P to get the essence for their RC needs Keeping both but make Pure Essence mine-able on F2P is the worse option if you ask me, because it would make the F2P part of Essence that much rarer... Hence, I am for reversing the update altogether... It's almost like the Car manufacturers telling you what car you should like and dislike :P

Ok, great quote there... Ever considered items like logs, bowstrings and nature runes are bound by certain artificially set alch values? Some items are goign to be left behind... And your argument suggests that everyone should spend their GP and buy items, so inflation doesn't hurt them, but you fail to consider that 99% of all transactions these days are players buying fro other players... SOMEONE is going to have to hold the GP because when you buy items, the gold doesnt just dissapear in the GE... Considering that, with ever inflating prices, people are scrambling to buy-buy-buy (its fricken Wall Street on a bad day), pushing prices up further and faster... Obviously you did not read my article all the way to the end, otherwise you would have known that a bit of inflation is normal... Prices jumping to 150% their original value in 4 months is not... You sir, are; - shortsighted for not seeing the grand picture of it all, this goes both to failing to see the grand economy as a whole, as well as ditching on new players, the one thing Runescape relies on. - greedy for insisting that the rise of your valued items is normal, and should continue to do so. - ignorant for thinking that I do not grasp the concept of economics, nor know what I am talking about. - and finally, hereby challenged to write an article for the Times on why you consider the current goings on to be normal...

when coming back alive, you better do it properly :)

Out with the old, make room for the new... TBH, I don't really care for clans that close because of good reasons... Although I must admit, there are a few clans out there that I wouldnt like to see gone... DI isnt one of them... Being in the exact same position as he is (the leader part, not the willing to quit part), I can understand why you would want to burn such a bridge behind you. But as you said, an officer expressed his surprise, the last thing you'd expect is this being a unitlateral decision... I give it a week and then the people of DI open a new clan of their own...

Tonight is not Saradomin, but Zamorak (and Bandos if we have enough people)... Make sure you report to TS_Stormrage's cc

Do you want to see the clan chronicle continue? If no, please state reasons. Yes Are you happy with the current clan chronicle? If no, please state reasons. Yes, most of it is a nice read :) just wish you'd include some interestng clans too :P Do you, as a user and individual, feel you have what it takes to help further the success of this publication? If no, why not? Not me personally, but I have a few recommendations

A reminder, the 1st event (a house party at TS_Stormrage, Rellekka, w84... followed by stealing creations) starts in an hour and a half from posting this...

A reminder; the first event starts in an hour and a half from posting this :)

Thank you (at least, I think it's a compliment...) Nope, although seeing what we've been through, it sure seems that way... We split off from BRethern Of The Holy Order (BROTHOR) And yes, 99.9% P2P... It provides a wide variety of things to do, much more so then F2P does... The other benefit is that P2P members payed for their membership, meaning they are far less likely to just dissapear off of the radar... This in turn provides a much more stable atmosphere, and therefor a much stabler clan as a whole... We do not war much... There are 2 wars of us online on youtube though, vs LK and TLoTJ... And after the turmoil of our events week has settled, i'll be sure to drop in :)

Because sometimes, Angels need a sharp sword too... Wow... three years... It seems so long ago that I was struggling to keep my dead-end job as a recruiter for another clan, when a bunch of us decided that we'd be better off doing things a little different... And since then, it has been a giant rollercoaster... Starting out with only a dozen people, by now over a hundred people have joined and enjoyed our ranks, and it feels like we've only just begun... As a P2P clan you're always doomed to be a niche clan, considering the vast majority of clan-going people is generally into PVP on F2P... But we've done alright, and left our mark on the RS world, if you know where to look... For those who do not know TSA; We've worked a lot with Tip.it over the years, and are one of the last few remaining original (clans returning from RSC or starting since the whole revamp of this clan section dont count) clans here... We've been at the start and finish of a Clan-based TET team (where we won nearly all the contests, earning us our own thread)... We've been at the start and finish for a TWR for P2P clans (where we retired as #1)... We've been one of the founding clans for the Conclave... We've been at the turning point of Tip.it's luck in the MSSW... You could say we're relativly well integrated with Tip.it itself... You may know some of our members individually; I myself am present day a writer for the Tip.it Times, as is Deathmath Lord Troyus used to write for the Clan Chronicle Deejay_HR leads TET A lot of us have a blog on blogscape But, as said before; we stand apart from most clans here, which is probably the main reason why we are not as active in the Clan Discussion as expected... Back to the anniversary celebrations, we've planned a WHOLE WEEK of events for everyone and everything to tag along... I've posted it on the Tip.iters events section... For those that don't know us, that want to get re-aquainted, or just ant to pay a friendly visit, we've arranged a broad base of events, so there is something for everyone :) I want to use this thread for people to share their experiences with Tal Shiar so far, both good and bad... It should be a nice addendum to our historical records :)

Because sometimes, Angels need a sharp sword too... It was a Friday the 13th in the fall of 2006 when a group of loyal friends broke away from a clan that had no life in it, to start something that we had no idea on how big it would become... This group of friends has now expanded well beyond a hundred people and is evergrowing... This is the week that we exist three years, and boy do we have a host of events planned! Sunday the 11th of October, we'll kick things off with a Tip.it Times article by Deathmath. Monday the 12th of October, we'll be starting early with a House Party at TS_Stormrage's (it's in Rellekka), and when people get bored, we'll move the party to Stealing Creations. At Stealing Creations we'll do either TSA vs TSA (split the clan and guests in 2) or, depending on the turnout, TSA vs everyone else, in which case everyone else will be lead by TS_Stormrage. Tuesday the 13th of October is our actual anniversary date, and this event is a big one. After meeting up at my house, we'll invade the Godwars Dungeon. Not just one, but two bosses, General Graardor and K'ril Tsutsaroth will be at our mercy. If practical, we'll all be in one single Coinshare, so if you want lewt, this is the day to tag along! Be sure to be fully prepared and have read all the guides, and it'll be a breeze for everyone. Not to worry, we have people that can bless your grave should you die. Wednesday the 14th of October will be spent at Trouble Brewing. Not a very popular minigame, but it requires almost as much cooperation as Barbarian Assault does, and we fully intent to demonstrate it. Playing TSA vs TSA with the guests equyally spread across both teams, we hope that noone is going to sabotage... Thursday the 15th of October we'll ditch the skilling bit and start owning some people at P2P ClanWars. Feel free to fight with or against us, we'll gladly teach you how to fight properly in P2P... Friday the 16th of October its Commander Zilyana's turn as we will all go to Saradomin Godwars Dungeon, again with Coinshare on. Since not everyone can participate in this, TS_Stormrage himself will take anyone who wants to Trawler. Saturday the 17th of October we will invade Castlewars ands try to score some tickets. Generally speaking TSA sets up a decent base defense, just to annoy the enemy flag stealers int he first phase of the game. Tag along and score some tickets too! Sunday the 18th of October is the day that the last remaining Godwars Dungeon Boss gives up his loot. Kree'arra will be invaded by TSA and anyone who wants to tag along in a Coinshare, and again TS_Stormrage will lead the people who cannot attend that on a Trawler mission. To close off this awesome week, there will be a Times article by TS_Stormrage posted on Sunday... All events start out at 21:00, and House Parties at 20:00, (and you can click the date to get a link to a countdown). Times are based on London. At GWD events that are not preceeded by a house party, you are requested to have your killcount at the start of the event. The timer takes this into account... I HOPE TO SEE EVERYONE AT THESE EVENTS :) I've taken the time to announce it on the Clan Discussions as well, but that thread is for those that wish to discuss our history and future... This thread is to discuss the events :)

Wrong thread?

I'll want to see one change though; Make clickable links OPEN IN A NEW WINDOW (like it used to on phpbb2) thank you :D

Your economic reasoning behind why it would be good for the ecnomy to reverse the Pure Essence update is something ive written down in my Times article... I spose great minds think alike :) I'll detail it further when the article publishes in October, though :P

So some runes are affected, as is the TokKul gathering way... And unlimited stocks of ammo are gone too... Im predicting RC-ing becoming very profitable (or at least popular) again soon, the same will go for fletching?.... Anythign else that we will see down the line? I have to know though; how fast do these personalised shops replenish their entire stock? And is there a time difference in replenishing 65k shards or 10 bone bolts (or does it fill up form 0 to full in a set amount of time for all shops)?

[ PLAYERS ]: There are currently 85,739 players online on 162 servers 529/server, 26.46% capacity. The online record is 251,027 set on Dec 9 2007. Funny how the date was one day before the day we all know. What is more funny is that this is also the day that Tip.it was still celebrating its first ever victory in the Multi Site Steel Wars, which was pretty much the start of the path to being the dominant website again... On topic; Interesting to see indeed, I'm asuming you can zoom in on the graph to see it hour to hour, as well as zoom out to see it all on a monthly scale? If this is the case, some of the guys at the editorial panel might have a few requests in the future for you :) Keep up the good work, and if you need a host, let me know :)