Ts_Stormrage

TBH, and I'm not trying to undermine the Editorial staff here... 1. Just because we're short of articles (I cannot come up with one EVERY week... sorry) does not mean they're going to post any crap that crosses their desks... 2. Min/max is a guideline, if you can write a short but strong piece, you're more likely to get published then a longwinding incoherent piece of napkin doodling... 3. I've made a proposal that should import a lot more ideas on stuff to write about... Unfortunately for us at the scribble-room, the people using thse forums are generally smart, and usually start topics on certain matters before we get a chance to write a masterpiece on the subject... If you think you have something that you want to write about, but feel that these forums do not give it a high enough profile, feel free to PM me (or any other guy or gal with the pen under his name) with the sbject and the elements you want to see in it, and watch wonders happen... 4. Know that only one in 20 people that use the site (and maybe reads the published articles), also visit and post on the forums... Occasionally we have to put a bulletin out there to attract more people to our forum-based facilities :)

Ok, couple of holes... First, you asume way too much, and even Duke Freedom's methods were far from accurate... Second, when using your numbers, you conviniently pick only one month of price numbers... When you calculate with yur numbers the overall from when PVP drops were changed to what it is now, we're looking at an increase of 40,8%... As said, for 3% you need 93k, so we're now looking at 1.26 MILLION... As said, we're looking at hyper inflation; "prices go up because people expect prices to go up" is pretty much a golden rule Thirdly, this is an index of consumables and/or raw materials that ultimately end up being alched, which means these items are NOT as likely to rise as fast as items like Whips and Godswords... Sadly, the graphs do not go further back then 180 days, but in regards to your examples; Lobsters - more then a week <--- I find this pretty fast for an item that is in abundance as this Rune Scimitars - several weeks <--- unfortunately I cannot watch that far back, but it is a tell-tale sign that its 30-day average plummets till it hits mid-june and then continues to go upwards again... Overal value gained from PVP has not changed (only the items got changed to pure GP) so the sudden turn around MUST be caused by the statues update... Amulet of ranging - months <--- since when has a crappy item like that ever had any meaning when discussing the economy? You sound like Mod Fetzki when he quotes the graph of the Dragon Chainbody when seeing how inflation is happening or not... Obviously it went up straight after its introduction, but knowledge about the item and its overall crappyness compared to a Fury amulet caught up with it... LOL? GP is neutral? It is neutral when you dont have any, for you... I find this fricken hilarious coming form a guy that tells me I need to study macro economics... You claim that you can get rid of all your GP when you want to, but does this go for everyone? If everyone decides to BUY BUY BUY from the GE just to get rid of GP, doesnt the other half of the RS community get stuck with the GP? I explained this to you twice now, and once used the proverbial hot potato as an example... Ok, I'm not touching this one anymore... You're wrong, very wrong, and I explained it to you in length and in detail... If you do not agree with me, fine, but stop making [cabbage] up... No it isnt, not if its the cause of it in the first place... Proposal 1 is your friend... A final thought; I thought you understood a few things about economics, but I was wrong... You're wrong about nearly everything, and make wild assumptions and retrieve facts that can no longer be checked... If you want, I still have the Duke on an instant messenger, and have him take a look at this, he is one of few people I trust to settle this debate...

Taraka2 is OmG_iTz_Raka ingame...

In my humble opinion; Inflation, in RuneScape, is prices continuously going up, without some sort of stability being reached in the foreseeable future, all due to there being more GP created then destroyed, on average, per player over any length of time... The massive influx of GP (which the statues on PVP worlds are largely responsible for) causes prices of everything to be driven up far more rapidly then any other supply-demand effect would have... The reasons why some items are not rising as fast as others is something I have detailed already... You said its a bad idea to fix PVP just to fight inflation... Since when is it a bad idea to undo a mistake? Check the price graphs of some random items, especially around mid-June... PVP drops not the cause of inflation? I beg to differ, and I have proposed a solution that would not harm the earnings on PVP but still cuts off the massive influx of GP... Proposal 1 of my article that was posted on the 18th of last month... Market equilibriums happen very fast these days in RuneScape, even with the 5% limit... Just check any update made to the game that has affected prices of an item, and how fast the prices stabilized, but check them before the 15th of June... You're right that if you do not have GP but convert it all into items, you do not lose Purchasing Power... Sad thing is, you cannot use items buy other items from the GE... In your world we might as well get rid of GP and the GE... Thanks there, mr Ice, but lets save the Titanic debate for mIRC :) But you're half right about the current score... Remember that I warned about the whole situation we're currently in a week after the statues update... So it's really 3-0... Good for Jagex is that they can, by implementing Porposal 1, make it game set and match for them :)

Idiot, you know damn well that I meant that, items that are bound by alch values (such as yew longbows) will not rise much further then their alch value + value of a nature rune... This does not only go for such items but also all of their raw materials... Thank you for highlighting the problem... The whole time I have been going on about how PVP is too good of a GP spawn... More and more people flock to this, which indeed makes some of the items you mentioned rise in price... My issue is not only with the massive amounts of GP created, but also that PVP is the only way to go, which in turn hurts the grand variety that RuneScape once used to be... I have a firm grasp of what I am talking about thank you... I have explained why inflation affects certain items in certain ways (price caps, alch values, shop prices, popularity, etc), and you use this as an argument to point out to me how I havent a clue of what I am talking about? please, I hope the rest of your post provides soemthing of an intellectual challenge based on actual facts rather then trying to poke holes in semantics... Isnt that what I have been saying? My god have you even read ANYTHING at all of the recent articles? Inflation, yes, its a huge problem, but the CAUSE is the pure GP drops on PVP worlds... Obviously you do not know me nor comprehend the vast impact that the changes made in mid-June have had... I dont mind PVP being a money maker... I mind it being a VASTLY SUPERIOR money maker compared to the previous ones (GWD, Slayer, etc) Fortunately, RuneScape wiki is doign this FOR me... And they have proven me right so far... 40% increase on average, in vastly popular AND consumable items, hal fof which are bound (as previously explained) by the alch values of the items themselves or the finished product... So far, you havent come up with any cold hard facts to prove me wrong, while I have been proven right time and again... This says I know more about RuneScape's economy then you, which means my claims (which arent claims, but are really just conslusions of a sum of facts) are not bull... Your entire post is, though... Now mr ignores_all,back your claim that I know nothing about what is happening up by proving me wrong... Either that or get the [bleep] off of this thread...

Your argument would stand if certain prices werent bound by their alch value or by their price caps... And seeing that these items are certainly popular, they make a huge difference... Moreover, we live in an economy with continuous inflation that gets further and further out of control, meaning that coins themselves become the proverbial hot potato, which increases demand for items even further... We're not talking about inflation anymore, we're talking about hyper-inflation... And it takes place at a speed that newcomers to the game cannot keep up with... I have already illustrated this to you by comparing inflation on high level items compared to consumables that everyone can get... Also, once more explained; you can earn roughly 5 million on average on PVP worlds in 2 hours... Consider a common skilling money maker, like alching yew longbows, you need 6500 of them, all built entirely from scratch right down to your own flax picked, logs cut, and essence mined... This is completely out of sync with one another... For the nitpickers out there, I am not suggesting that we should make PVP a money maker that is as fast as alching, I am highlighting here how fast PVP brings money into the game compared to alching... Hence Proposal 1; PVP would still earn large amounts of money, without bringing extra GP into the economy...

You're going to want to read this post, it explains a lot... I have actually ranted about the statues in an article the very same week that PVP drops were changed to statues... I still believe that you should not get pure cash (which it really is) from PVP. And if you look back at my article of the 18th of october, particularly Proposal 1, you will see that under my proposed system, rewards would yield the same amount of GP for the PVP-ers, without actually adding GP to the economy... People seem to not completely grasp the whole concept, and I think I am partly to blame. But you should not view the proposals seperately, but as a whole... And while Proposal 1 pretty much stops the massive influx of GP in the economy, prices are hitting their maximum caps, meaning that inflation is getting as far out of control as Jagex allowed for the GE... Soon, Swordfish will be sold on the streets for far more then the GE's 500gp As for my proposal to overturn the Rune Essence update, I'll detail it in steps what would happen if all the additional ideas were implemented... First, the announcement is made that for every Pure Essence, you'll soon have 3 Rune Essence in your bank (which is their rough price comparisson), and every GOP token will from then on get you 3 Rune Essence on both F2P and P2P, all this will happen in 2 weeks time... Then people will buy them up until Pure Essence is worth more then 3 times the worth of Rune Essence... Once the update happens, and Chaos Runes are now craftable in F2P, and there is no more Pure Essence anywhere in the game (not dropped or mined), a lot of people on F2P will start to mine Rune Essence or play the GOP game as a main money maker, because it is faster then cutting yews or mining gold ore... Why do we do this? First and foremost; It would be nice to see Jagex undo a mistake of theirs with completely undoing an update without harming anyone... It would show that they can admit when they are wrong, and that they can (un)do something without ruining the game even further... Second reason is that, in the original article, I explained how making RuneCrafting cheaper, makes pretty much everything cheaper. Because cheaper Nature Runes makes for cheaper Alching... Do not forget that Alching is the main driving force behind a skill-based and XP-based economy like RuneScape always has been, which makes the PVP money maker seem less atractive... Third, Rune Essence will, once this proposed update to the Essence as well as having our personal Shops stocked back up to pre-infinite-stock levels has happened, largely be mined on F2P. This means that P2P (where 90% of all money and value is) is going to funnel a LOT of cash into F2P, basicly spreading some of that wealth potentially from ~1 million to ~12 million (this fights inflation too, because F2P buys more things from stores then P2P does)... Is Chaos crafting not fast enough to be a profitable way to level RuneCrafting on F2P? Make the Quest "What Lies Below..." F2P too, they can even keep the Beacon Ring afterwards, so mages have something too... All this while, as thoroughly explained, noone gets harmed in the process... Some relevant links; What Lies Below - Questguide The Times article on which this one is a follow-up, contains the original proposals Bost articles and replies on the Official Forums of RuneScape itself

RuneScape Name: TS Stormrage RuneScape Clan: The Tal Shiar Alliance Short name is Tal Shiar

+1

Should have included the option; Only to 76k/EP-farm/"make money"

Armadyl Godsword: 99.70m 105m 110.20m (Today: +5,000,000gp [+5%] Called it...

[ GE ]: [M] Armadyl Godsword: 107m 112.60m 118.20m (Today: +1,200,000gp [+1.1%]) GF update... Anywho, for reasons as to why; http://forum.tip.it/topic/248378-tip-it-times-18-october-2009/page__view__findpost__p__3936497

Best name; Anythign that is a name, like Tal Shiar Worst name; Anything that fits into this... The [adjective] [noun] of the [adjective] [noun]

I'm not even sure if the GE will respond now on the AGS... People have been selling items on forums WAY below market price, so there is little reason for anyone to buy an item on the GE... I guess we'll know in a few hours :S In the mean while, I'll contunue to monitor the RSoF for new facts, but so far, it seems Mario is spot on in what is happening (see previous page)... [EDIT] The GE updates... AAAAAAAAAND *drumroll*.... Armadyl Godsword: 107m 112.60m 118.20m (Today: +1,200,000gp [+1.1%]) GF Jagex :) Looks liek this still goes; "If you kill, or get killed by someone that you killed or got killed by in the last 2 hours, you dont get as much reward... But you dont lose as much EP either" Your average drops remains the same, but your victim has to sacrifice its 76k much more often... Or you have to find different victims... The panic sales will probably last a few more days, but by the start of the weekend things will start to bounce back due to everyone having the GP but not the items :) Thanks though, was an awesome opportunity to get rid of my junk :P I bought a Saradomin Sword 20% under mid market price yesterday, and a friend of mine for 27% under market price... Right now things are already no longer panic sold on forums or at w2, but just minimum price on GE... If you guys want, you can bump the thread on th RSoF to keep it from being eaten by the page 51 monster... CLICK AND POST TO GET THE MESSAGE THROUGH Lets hope Jagex reads it :)

Mario; I advise you to read my 1st proposal again... There was a huge problem when PVP world drops were actual bossmonster drops, people would rather pvp then hunt the actual boss... This still does not diversify the game and puts people to do only one viable thing for large ammounts of cash... The thing with PVP drops is, they ahve a number of criteria if they want to have a popular and profitable PVP world without it impacting inflation... To achieve that, PVP drops must be; - Valuable, while degrading 100% over time (so nothing is added to the game overall, Vesta's is a great example of this) - Untradable (if drops cant be traded, they add nothing to the economy) What you are suggesting is to add drops and coins themselves to balance it out... This doesnt solve the problem because there are loads of items that do not drop on PVP worlds ;) And swampjedi, I've been roaming the RSoF since the second I heard about this update... What it really comes down to is that you need multiple partners to dump your EP in, thats all... Tricking clans, here they come :) But you are right in them recognizing there is a problem... But they see 76k-ing as a problem, not the whole inflation thing, which is what my article has been about ;)

Useless update explained in proper topic As well as added a little judgement by yours truly... Gonna go get me a spider pet now :)

There goes tricking? HELL NO... Once again an update that does nothing AT ALL... I'll explain first what has happened with The PVP update of Oct 26; Basicly what has changed is that, should you fight and kill (or be killed by) the same person you just killed or got killed by, your drops will now be "lessened in value" (by however much I do not know yet) People who make tonnes and tonnes of cash do not suddenly say to themselves "Oh, I'll go back to killing Green Dragons for cash now"... No, they just seek different partners each kill, or worse, start clans that cater to people who this for one another... 0/10 Jagex... We'll see a short panic-induced dip, but mark my words; the AGS wont even go below the 100m mark, even IF it goes that far down...

Cant wait to see if I get grabbed by zombehs... :ohnoes: :eek:

So as I understand it now, you want to keep the one thing that has caused all this ridiculous hyper-inflation? AND add more drops to it? I'm going to explain you my solution of replacing the statues with actual items again... The thing with my solution is; the items generated by PVP then do not add anythign to the economy, as the rewards from PVP no longer will be pure cash, but items that will be sold to other PLAYERS (not NPCs) for cash... The items degrade completely after a while, or are untradable, so no additional cash is injected into the economy... I have suggested adding more of such items to PVP drops ON TOP of normal statue/cash drops... BUT as the same time limit the cash one can get by changing the factors deciding this, and limiting it to a maximum of twice the amount your opponent was risking... 1, Yes, I CAN blame it 100% on PVP drops because I think that the sheer cash income from that completely eclipses any other factors currently screwing with the economy... 2, Bots arent putting a dent in the prices anymore these daysm but as you said, if they do mine pure essence, the solution is presented here and in this thread... Mordendravid earlier suggested to replace everyone's Pure Essence by 3 Rune Essence while reversing the update that made Pure Essence for members back in 06...

No, I am afraid you are wrong and need to consult the Knowledge base again; If dropped; Item is coinshared for a total of X gp (which is low end price on GE), and item itself is now for sale on current mid price... Someone buys said item at mid price, which removed Y ammount of cash form the game... X is generated (low GE value) and Y is removed form the game (mid GE value)... This, and adding one of the items to the game, actually causes DEFLATION (less gp, more items) Everything else you say about noone buying at low prices is just ridiculous and redundant...

Would you trust me to sit on my proposed Socio-Economic board? Should there be elections (jagex selects 200 people who can campaign, and we all get to vote for 10)? If so, consider this my application, Jagex ;) Because people don't know who the editors are. You're the unsung heroes of the Editorial Panel :P So true... But I'm going to ask for another function of the editors of the Panel, which is something along the lines of fact-checking, and have them placed on the site as well (article by X, editted by Y)... On top of that, I think the editorial panel people should not be encumbered by the censor either (see how it ruined my sig?) But this is something I will discuss with our new head of editorials ;) [hide] [/hide] You know I already proposed to have PVP drop useful untradables and valuable degradables (often just to sell), right? As for saying that inflation makes certain things more profitable, I am going to link you to another post of mine, replying to someone comparing slayer drops to common raw materials, and how they have risen in price; Please read this post carefully... Obviously "everything" is rising in price, but the items that are rising faster then others are those unbound by their alch value... This makes things more and more un-even, and considering the current unbalance in what is profitable to do and what is not, the current situation drives everyone eventually to EP-farm, which adds more and more to inflation... I've explained time and again how this is the nkill switch of RuneScape, because what Jagex has left in five years (if this remains unchecked) is a bunch of people that quit RS because of going to college, and no new enthusiatic players, because everything costs too much to do... Search my recent posts around this particular forum, I believe that the current situation, if left unchecked, will kill RuneScape as a fun game for everyone because it has so much variety...

[hide] You live in one right now, most likely. When was the last time you paid with cash, when you had the option to pay with your debit card? It's a similar situation, where the concept of cash is still the backbone of the economy, but the demand is for the item, not the wealth. And like you've touched on, it's because they made cash so easy to obtain. Though I do have to chuckle when so many people say, "It's 76king oh no!" Yes, it's that. But there are also many, many other methods that pump cash into our wallets with absolutely no effort. What about Fruit Falling at the duel arena? Flipping items via the grand exchange? Merching clans as a whole? And all the various other little get-rich quick schemes that, bit by bit, aren't too devastating, but when you add them all together...76k'ing is only a slice of the troubling pie that is the failing short term economy. I know this has already been said but I'd like to emphasize the point. There were 3(4) main ways of creating gp. 1. Killing a monster for a pure gp drop 2. Selling an item to a shop 3. Alching items (4. Coinshare) 1. There aren't any big pure gp drops 2. This is equal or lower then the alch value 3. The value never changes so the players balance out the ingredients prices. (4. This is arguble, but it creates pure gp as a drop, but keeps the item in the ge for a player this GE price is created by the player.) Over time all the above have been balanced out by players based on there usability and rarity. In your example papaya and other fruits are only worth 1 of 3 things; there shop price, there high alch price or the price a player is willing to pay. When your fruit falling your merely creating its high alch value 38gp nothing more, but possibly less. This is the amount entering the game, however in this example its also balancing the loss a player makes in creating the scrolls in the first place. PvP in its current form came along and removed any player based balancing out of the game. You always get the same amount for a drop its in essence pure gp. Before the economy used to be like so. alches+monster gp+shop sales(+coinshare)<=sink holes Now PvP drops+alches+monster gp+shop sales(+coinshare)>sink holes The solution is simple remove the PvP drops. However I have a gut feeling Jagex is doing this to extend the life of the game. By pumping gp into the ecomony there increasing the time frame in which the gp in the game hits the same level as the items high alch value. Sounds silly, but whips used to be about 3m, before the inflation they were close to 1m and this inflation has propped it back up. [/hide] Actually; Coinshare does not create GP, but it gives you cash according to the current Low end of the price range, and puts the item for MID on the GE, meaning it actually removes 5% of the cash... A money maker you forgot is Thieving, which brings instant GP to the game, but I suppose they can fall under monster drops... Spot on with the equation though :)

What do you mean what do I mean... I explained very clearly why inflation is a bad thing in both my article as well as the reply earlier in this thread I was linking to... Stop spamming and start reading, my mis-informed thread-filler...

Now this is news? Saradomin to bless the troops fighting for Zamorak..? Start the rumor machine boys!

Go read this week's Tip.It Times please... Link is in my Sig...