issy2

Can we quit the two-sided arguments? I think you know exactly what I'm going to say. Sorry if I misunderstood, I'm personally not aware of recycling arguments...? :? But it people aren't disgusted by it, there's no need for 'empathy'. The guy who started this thread has got to be one of, well, very few... and whether or not what she was doing was right/wrong, so was the mother. I also don't really understand why you don't feel empathy for the mother... Not criticising or anything, but if you believe in true empathy, wouldn't be arguing pro-breastfeeding in public? As I said... sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick Turtlefemm - yours sounds like the perfect solution :)

The world would be a much better place. :pray: teddy bears

7/10, seen you around a bit

Yeah... babies can't talk. They're hungry? They scream. They're not very patient people, on the whole. I'm sorry, I just don't see why a mother should have to move because of YOUR disgust. Most people aren't disgusted by breastfeeding, it's a natural thing. May I ask, what is it about breastfeeding you find so 'disgusting'? I'm curious. Did you know, if you are disgusted by it, it will actually do you good to see it taking place? It's a psychological occurence called desensitisation, or "dulling or numbing of the feelings"; through making a person more used to something, ie, showing an arachnaphobic pictures of spiders, the fear or phobia will be less and less intense. Forgive me if I'm presumptious, but I think you may have a phobia; "an irrational or persistent fear of certain situations, people, or activities." It sounds like you, doesn't it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ce.ukcrime If anyone wants more info here is an interesting explanation, written by Majid himself

I'd love to be able to fly <3: I don't think anything else would be useful in the long run, unless everybody had it.

I dunno, I don't really think you should boycott the world's biggest and most ancient sporting event just because you don't like the country its in... On the other hand it will probably be a pretty effective way of protesting, if people stop going to/buying things from China, they must realise they have to change. Obviously I believe in human rights... but I'm still gonna watch it :)

And a woman doesn't need to feed her baby right that second. It can wait until she moves somewhere else. We were talking about conveniences. Saying that the baby must eat now! is just blowing things out of proportion for argument's sake. Baby's are known to wait a few minutes just like everyone else. Actually, there's many reasons why babies should eat when they're hungry. Firstly, if you were in a restaurant, trying to eat, which would be more annoying to you? Be honest! A baby screaming its head off for milk, generating a heck of alot of noise, turning heads and making people listen to it, or a mother 'exposing' (which in most cases isnt even true) herself to feed it? If you had to listen to a baby screaming you'd be complaining too. I'm not saying there aren't alternatives, but you can't have it both ways. Secondly it's incredibly upsetting for a mother to listen to her baby crying and not being able - or not feeling able - to feed it. Lots of women struggle to breastfeed their babies and it can cause her to feel like a failure. The same goes for not making sure he/she is happy and comfortable. Thirdly, babies can't feed themselves. They need looking after. No, I'm not saying a mother should devote herself entirely to every single tiny need of her child, but food isn't like toys or TV. A baby needs it, and I can't see it's very good for a baby to be screaming, angry and hungry until the mother feed them. As you said earlier in the thread; Before you start talking about empathy, you should put yourselves in a mothers shoes. You ask her to put your feelings before her own childs? Why should she feel empathy for someone over her own flesh and blood, when she would have to bring a shawl or remember to cover up? You are clearly quite into the whole "empathy" thing - how about empathy for a mother who is only looking after her child. PS. Thanks :)

7/10 Hate the figure but love the colours :)

Wow, are you serious? A kid being psychologically damaged by seeing breastfeeding? OH MY GOD!! MUMMY!!!! BAD WOMAN BAD WOMAN WITH BABY!!! lol the idea is laughable! Alot of kids were breastfed themselves, and half of them will grow up to do it or attempt to with their own kids, and even if their parents don't explain it to them, it doesn't mean its going to damage them or anything. The obsession with protecting children nowadays is ridiculous! It's wholeheartedly healthy to learn about the facts of life, and breastfeeding is not like sex, "I'll tell you when you're older!" Anyway, young children are naturally curious - believe me, they would ask if they wanted to know. Young children don't need to be protected against it, they should know what breastfeeding is. They see it, they're curious, they ask, they're told about it.

Well I'm not exactly sure, but basically, he got a conviction for breaking into a derelict shop. By the time he applied for university, his conviction was 'spent' - this is when, after an offence, if other offences have been committed in a certain amount of time, it's removed from your criminal record. So in the end he told the university of his own accord (although that in itself is debatable) about his spent conviction, and they turned him down.

I'm not saying he should be let off on that excuse, just that it shows alot of force of character and is a heck of an achievement to be able to turn your back on something you may have grown up with.

I'm not so sure to be honest. I know these are only quotes and it's so easy to lie, but he was 'deeply ashamed' when he was arrested and vowed never to do that kind of thing again - which he hasn't, so far. He says he grew up 'surrounded by drugs and violence' and to be honest I think turning your life around because you have your heart set on something and are determined to go and get it is more of an achievement than getting four As...

What makes you say that? I'm pretty sure some people would. It's illegal though so that's why you don't see it. People need to use the bathroom too. By the way, what is your definition of "necessary"? I don't think there are that many excuses as to why a mother can't just use a shawl or walk a few steps to take it somewhere else. The thing is, this whole thread wouldn't exist if that were true. Obviously, someone did see and he didn't want to. It all stems down to opinions. You say it's not a big deal - some say it is. Basically what I'm trying to say is (and sorry if this kinda ruins the idea of a debate) get over it. At worst, you see a body part you didn't want to see. It's not exactly going to happen very often - it's not like streets are full of mothers wandering around breastfeeding babies - and you especially need to get over it if it puts you off your food.

There's been a story in the news recently about 17-year old Majid Ahmed, who at 16 got a criminal record for breaking into a derelict shop. The conviction was later 'spent', and he got 4 A's at A-level, and spent his spare time doing voluntary work with children and at surgeries, got into Imperial College to study medicine - and was turned away because of his (spent) conviction. He was "overwhelmed with anger" and has the media and lawyers working on his side to get his place back. Do you think that people can never lose traits? My mum says she wouldn't want a doctor with a criminal record, understandably, but is it possible to change the kinds of things you do, the kind of people you hang around with, especially in such a short space of time? I was wondering what you think of this. my family has been talking about it a lot, with very divided opinions...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Love Cats by the Cure... which happens to come with an amusing video Love this so much

I've been teased alot in the past, I know how you feel. The problem is, people always say - "Just ignore them" because they're assuming that if you don't, you'll be up in arms, yelling, getting violent, which would be equally useless. The trick is to find the right balance, the mid-way point - don't let them walk all over you, but don't get angry. Responding with jokes or in some way making their remarks backfire and making them look like an idiot can help... but don't try and be funny if you're not, I made that mistake alot lol. It's kind of hard to explain... Don't completely ignore them, but respond with something that'll shock them into silence. Obviously it upsets you - who wouldn't be upset by it - but act like it doesn't. Sorry that doesn't really make sense does it :oops:

Oh sorry, my mistake! :oops:

So, you could just say to yourself - "I'm going to be attracted to men." But it wouldn't be true, unless you're already gay. Many, many people have gone through stressful periods in which they have doubted their sexuality, often refusing to accept it because of religion, family, or of being a 'social outcast'. Do you not think that if someone had the choice to be straight they'd take it? I could say also that i'm a physcopath killer, but it wouldn't be true because I wasn't already born a killer. The difference is, though, that you could become psychotic. Mental illnesses are caused by enviroment or genetics, but even so it would be beyond your own choice. You might choose to say "I am gay" but it wouldn't be the same thing as being born gay, or, whether or not it's possible, being subject to events in your life which make you gay, in which case it still wouldn't be your choice, but would have been caused by your environment. I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense...

What's so nasty about using the bathroom? We do it everyday, so by your reasoning we shouldn't be bothered by watching other people go to the bathroom. And honestly, I wouldn't have a problem if a mother covered it up successfully. The only thing I'm arguing is that they shouldn't do it in a restaurant all proud and naked. If you covered yourself, it would be a whole different story - but as the topic starter says the lady failed at trying to do so - therefore he saw and lost his appetite. You see, I don't care if a woman breastfeeds. What I do care about is empathy towards others. There are plenty of ways for a mother not to attract attention - but some don't feel they have to - that is lack of empathy. Like I said, I watch South Park and a lot of other nasty shows, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the fact that others may find it inappropriate. It's intolerance towards lack of empathy - not intolerance to breastfeeding in general. Yes, I totally accept that you're right, by my reasoning my someone shouldn't be disgusted by watching someone else go to the bathroom. But what I was saying was, if I was going to the bathroom I wouldn't want others watching me, regardless of whether or not they would be embarrassed. And that woman in the restaurant is really a one-off... women in general are pretty discreet. Maybe she should have gone to the bathroom if she couldn't be discreet enough, but really it's only a baby being fed! Kinda sums up how I feel.

The Seeing Stone, At The Crossing-Places, and King of The Middle March, a series, gotta be 3 of the best books ever. They're set in medieval Britain, about a young boy who goes to fight in Jerusalem. They're so real, it makes you feel like he's actually there Stargirl by Jerry Spinelli :) Also I wonder if anyone's read Before I Die, by Jenny Downham? It's becoming pretty famous here, tons of my friends and I have read it despite it being... pretty dodgy... It's about this girl Tessa who has leukaemia. She's waiting to die, but she has a list of things she wants to do before she does. You're anticipating her death through the whole book and yet it still breaks your heart.

So, you could just say to yourself - "I'm going to be attracted to men." But it wouldn't be true, unless you're already gay. Many, many people have gone through stressful periods in which they have doubted their sexuality, often refusing to accept it because of religion, family, or of being a 'social outcast'. Do you not think that if someone had the choice to be straight they'd take it?

You "don't have to watch" people having sex in public either. But does that really stop the issue at hand? Not at all. People will still have the first glimpse of it, and they can't unsee it. But, honestly - and I'm not trying to criticise anyone - but what kind of person is disgusted by breastfeeding? You probably spent the first few months of your life doing it. How do you think you would have felt, a little hungry baby who wants to be fed? What's unnatural or disgusting about that? Nothing. How do you think a mother would feel, being told she has to leave a room or breastfeed only in private? Most women are pretty discreet about not 'exposing' themselves, it's not like they're going to be sitting there topless or anything.