March 29, 200719 yr Both atheists and theists are stupid in their own special ways. And truth be told, I've probably met more annoying atheists than theists. :: Guess the Movie Contest Champion: pfilc23 ::
March 29, 200719 yr They're incompatible, but that's not what my point was... However, I am rather tired of people saying "Science and religion are compatible!" when talking about evolution. SCIENCE, yes. EVOLUTION, no. I also chuckle at religious people who are think scientists are dumb because they think we came indirectly from "rocks". The Bible says we were made out of dust, but since God apparently made that possible, it's no longer stupid. And Korskin, you DO know that man wrote the Bible right? I am utterly dumbfounded when people say they believe the Bible because science is just human speculation. People seem to have this thing in their head that makes them say "God wrote the Bible himself!" when he obviously didn't. As far as I know of, the only thing God wrote directly were the orginal 10 commandments, which Moses shattered 'cause he was being a turd. Rather, everyone else was, and he got mad. Whatever. Of course it's written by man. Though that doesn't make it man's speculation as they were inspired by God to write what he intended. You don't know that, though, is my point. I can say God inspired me to write something, too. This post, perhaps. He's tiredd of people being gullible lemmings and just believing in him for the wrong reasons, so he wishes me to tell you all that. The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me!
March 29, 200719 yr You don't know that, though, is my point. I can say God inspired me to write something, too. This post, perhaps. He's tried of people being gullible lemmings and just believing in him for the wrong reasons, so he wishes me to tell you all that. I believe the Bible is the truth. I don't know it but I have good reasons to believe it. I also have good reasons not to believe what you've just said. Your post sound to me like another example of man's speculation, which I'm not ready to live my life by.
March 29, 200719 yr You don't know that, though, is my point. I can say God inspired me to write something, too. This post, perhaps. He's tried of people being gullible lemmings and just believing in him for the wrong reasons, so he wishes me to tell you all that. I believe the Bible is the truth. I don't know it but I have good reasons to believe it. I also have good reasons not to believe what you've just said. Your post sound to me like another example of man's speculation, which I'm not ready to live my life by. No, God really did tell me that. See? It's written right there. :idea: The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me!
March 29, 200719 yr You don't know that, though, is my point. I can say God inspired me to write something, too. This post, perhaps. He's tried of people being gullible lemmings and just believing in him for the wrong reasons, so he wishes me to tell you all that. I believe the Bible is the truth. I don't know it but I have good reasons to believe it. I also have good reasons not to believe what you've just said. Your post sound to me like another example of man's speculation, which I'm not ready to live my life by. No, God really did tell me that. See? It's written right there. :idea: I'm gonna refer to my first post on this thread. I don't think that any honest person's beliefs are bunk Sidenote: Is this classified as spam?
March 29, 200719 yr You don't know that, though, is my point. I can say God inspired me to write something, too. This post, perhaps. He's tried of people being gullible lemmings and just believing in him for the wrong reasons, so he wishes me to tell you all that. I believe the Bible is the truth. I don't know it but I have good reasons to believe it. I also have good reasons not to believe what you've just said. Your post sound to me like another example of man's speculation, which I'm not ready to live my life by. No, God really did tell me that. See? It's written right there. :idea: I'm gonna refer to my first post on this thread. I don't think that any honest person's beliefs are bunk Sidenote: Is this classified as spam? I am being honest. Why would I lie? I even wrote it down! It isn't spam, you're just not seeing my point, lol. The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me!
March 29, 200719 yr Exactly, that's why I believe man wrote it as a speculation, only God truly knows the whole story. I consider the Bible to be the truth. Not man's speculation, that might or might not be true. It's not an option for me to live by some guys speculation, if it's not the truth I might aswell shred my Bible to pieces. Though I do agree that only God knows the whole story. Interesting. If we don't know everything and the bible does not contain every truth, why not try to uncover more of that truth? Or would you rather stay in the dark you're whole life? You see science (call it what you want, man's best guess, man's speculation, whatever. It has it's limitations but it is the best thing we have from an objectie standpoint) can fill in the blanks for us and I believe (if I were a theist) that god gave us this incredible gift of inquiry, logic and reasoning to help us find out what we don't know. I also believe (if I were a theist) that we will never truly know everything about this universe as that would make us on par with god. It's when we go to heaven (you see, there is no hell. It's only through our fear, tainted egos and shaded eyes that we don't see that god's love is eternal and there's no need to fear, need or want. Ever) that everything is revealed to us in some Nirvana-esque instance and we subsequently become on par with god. We get to be mates and go to the pub for a beer, you see?
March 29, 200719 yr Interesting. If we don't know everything and the bible does not contain every truth, why not try to uncover more of that truth? Or would you rather stay in the dark you're whole life? You see science (call it what you want, man's best guess, man's speculation, whatever. It has it's limitations but it is the best thing we have from an objectie standpoint) can fill in the blanks for us and I believe (if I were a theist) that god gave us this incredible gift of inquiry, logic and reasoning to help us find out what we don't know. I also believe (if I were a theist) that we will never truly know everything about this universe as that would make us on par with god. It's when we go to heaven (you see, there is no hell. It's only through our fear, tainted egos and shaded eyes that we don't see that god's love is eternal and there's no need to fear, need or want. Ever) that everything is revealed to us in some Nirvana-esque instance and we subsequently become on par with god. We get to be mates and go to the pub for a beer, you see? The Bible is sufficient for me to live my life by. That doesn't mean scientific discoveries are pointless. If science doesn't contradict the Bible I'm more then happy to believe in it. However, if I'm supposed to live by either the Bible or science aka man's speculation, my choice would be the Bible as I consider it to be the truth. Science can never be the truth, as it can change. It's a framework to explain some aspects of the world. It doesn't answer metaphysical question and that's why I consider philosophy to be more interesting. Philosophy is something everyone can discuss, whereas science requires observation and research, which is also the reason I'm not interested in a detailed evolutionary debate. Regarding your "if I was a theist view", I don't share your view. I do believe in hell, as it's pretty clear it's a reality if you read the Bible. However, even if we don't share our views we can still go to the pub. Though I'm not much of a drinker, so you'd be better off bringing someone else.
March 29, 200719 yr Why do you beleive that the Bible is fully correct, when did you become religious? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.
March 29, 200719 yr Why do you beleive that the Bible is fully correct, when did you become religious? Well, I was born in a christian home. So you'd might be thinking I have been brainwashed. To some extent I think I have been, as I've been hearing a lot of christians talk since birth. On one hand I question if it's just because I was born a christian that I am one today. However, I do know both people who were born christian who aren't christian today and I also know people who weren't born christian who are christian today. I just think that the odds of becoming a christian are greater if you're exposed to a lot of christianity. That's of course just speculation. I haven't been taking my religion that seriosuly until the last few years though. But I've always believed in the back of my head that there is a God. Jesus says that it's better to be hot or cold than lukewarm. So I try to be not just christian on the outside but also on the inside. The Bible is fully correct since it's inspired by God. There are some parts of it I have trouble understanding. And sometimes I feel that God isn't always fair. But most often I hear a better interpretation of what I've read from a theologist who really has studied the Bible. And then it makes more sense. However, that's almost exclusively detalis that I'm confused about. The important meaning of the Bible, why we are here, were we're going, what Jesus has done and why he had to come and die for us is rather clear to me. But the whole thing makes no sense at all if you don't believe. It's most certainly the key to understanding the bible.
March 29, 200719 yr Why do you beleive that the Bible is fully correct, when did you become religious? Well, I was born in a christian home. So you'd might be thinking I have been brainwashed. To some extent I think I have been, as I've been hearing a lot of christians talk since birth. On one hand I question if it's just because I was born a christian that I am one today. However, I do know both people who were born christian who aren't christian today and I also know people who weren't born christian who are christian today. I just think that the odds of becoming a christian are greater if you're exposed to a lot of christianity. That's of course just speculation. I haven't been taking my religion that seriosuly until the last few years though. But I've always believed in the back of my head that there is a God. Jesus says that it's better to be hot or cold than lukewarm. So I try to be not just christian on the outside but also on the inside. The Bible is fully correct since it's inspired by God. There are some parts of it I have trouble understanding. And sometimes I feel that God isn't always fair. But most often I hear a better interpretation of what I've read from a theologist who really has studied the Bible. And then it makes more sense. However, that's almost exclusively detalis that I'm confused about. The important meaning of the Bible, why we are here, were we're going, what Jesus has done and why he had to come and die for us is rather clear to me. But the whole thing makes no sense at all if you don't believe. It's most certainly the key to understanding the bible. So it is 'correct because it is', right? Sorry but thats kind of a poor thing to weigh over actual fact that can be tested. I'm fine if its your faith. However, don't simply neglect fact because 'the bible said so'.
March 29, 200719 yr Why do you beleive that the Bible is fully correct, when did you become religious? Well, I was born in a christian home. So you'd might be thinking I have been brainwashed. To some extent I think I have been, as I've been hearing a lot of christians talk since birth. On one hand I question if it's just because I was born a christian that I am one today. However, I do know both people who were born christian who aren't christian today and I also know people who weren't born christian who are christian today. I just think that the odds of becoming a christian are greater if you're exposed to a lot of christianity. That's of course just speculation. I haven't been taking my religion that seriosuly until the last few years though. But I've always believed in the back of my head that there is a God. Jesus says that it's better to be hot or cold than lukewarm. So I try to be not just christian on the outside but also on the inside. The Bible is fully correct since it's inspired by God. There are some parts of it I have trouble understanding. And sometimes I feel that God isn't always fair. But most often I hear a better interpretation of what I've read from a theologist who really has studied the Bible. And then it makes more sense. However, that's almost exclusively detalis that I'm confused about. The important meaning of the Bible, why we are here, were we're going, what Jesus has done and why he had to come and die for us is rather clear to me. But the whole thing makes no sense at all if you don't believe. It's most certainly the key to understanding the bible. Can't you see the problem with your reasoning? 1. God exists because it says so in the Bible. 2. The Bible is true because it was inspired by God. 3. God exists because it says so in the Bible, and the Bible is true because God exists. It's circular and therefore illogical to have such an absolute belief in this. So your belief in God probably stems from the fact that you were indoctrinated to beleive the Bible is absolute truth, or you have a feeling that he exists in the same form he does within the Bible. AKA Faith, and faith means nothing. So you have only an illogical belief that your God exists or faith, which is nothing. You have no reason other than indoctrination to beleive in God, unless you beleive in him for another reason. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.
March 29, 200719 yr I'm curious, for all those who say that the Bible is the word of God, but some is only symbolic, what's the message behind this passage? The book of Numbers tells how God incited Moses to attack the Midianites. His army made short work of slaying all the men, and they burned all the Midianite cities, but they didn't kill the women or children. One would have thought this restraint might have been approved by Moses, but it actually infuriated him, giving orders for all boys to be killed, and all the women who were not virgins. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Lovely. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo"
March 29, 200719 yr Author From Bible Think-Tank: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/midian.html Now, first let me dispose of a couple of the historical mistakes made by the objections mentioned above, and then we can get on to analyzing the severity of the actual event. First of all, there was no ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãâtest for virginityÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ needed/used. In spite of the elaborate/miraculous one created by the later rabbiÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s (ingenious, but altogether unnecessary) using the Urim and Thummim (!), the ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãâtest for virginityÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ in the ANE was a simple visual one: * Was the female pre-pubescent? * Was the female wearing any attire, jewelry, or adornments required for/associated with virginity for that culture? * Was the female wearing any attire, jewelry, or adornments required for/associated with non-virginity for that culture (e.g., veil indicating married status)? Because virginity was generally associated with legal proof for blood-inheritance issues in ancient cultures (e.g., land, property, kinship, relationships), virginity itself was often marked by some type of clothing (e.g., the robe of Tamar in 2 Sam 13) or by cosmetic means (cf. the Hindu ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãâpre-marriage dotÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢); as was more typically non-virginal married status (e.g., veils, headwear, jewelry, or certain hairstyles). Of course, non-virginal unmarried status (e.g., temple prostitutes and secular prostitutes) were also indicated by special markings or adornments (e.g. jewelry, dressÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢â∠My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley
March 29, 200719 yr Author For all you TL;DR people: 1. The judgment scene in Numbers 31 has nothing to do with lewd ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãâtests for virginityÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ 2. The judgment scene in Numbers 31 has nothing to do with ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãâsex slavesÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ or even slavery in the sense of New World Slavery 3. The judgment scene in Numbers 31 has nothing to do with a religious war against the Midianites, ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åbecause they worshipped a different god than IsraelÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley
March 29, 200719 yr He says he beleives in God, and he beleives in the absolute truth in the Bible. So therefore it's obvious he beleives in God because of the Bible, or has faith that God exists. From that he beleives the Bible to be absolute truth because he beleives in God. It's not misrepresenting anything, it's laying his beliefs down to show the circular reasoning that it entails. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.
March 29, 200719 yr Can't you see the problem with your reasoning? 1. God exists because it says so in the Bible. 2. The Bible is true because it was inspired by God. 3. God exists because it says so in the Bible, and the Bible is true because God exists. It's circular and therefore illogical to have such an absolute belief in this. So your belief in God probably stems from the fact that you were indoctrinated to beleive the Bible is absolute truth, or you have a feeling that he exists in the same form he does within the Bible. AKA Faith, and faith means nothing. So you have only an illogical belief that your God exists or faith, which is nothing. You have no reason other than indoctrination to beleive in God, unless you beleive in him for another reason. Look at what I said, I accepted that this wasn't the case if he beleived in him out of faith. If i edited that today it would have a little "last edited by Satenza" and the time in which i did. Which it clearly does not. Edit: So please edit your posts where you wrongly attack me and try to diminish my credibility. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.
March 29, 200719 yr That statement is LIE because he never said that was the basis of his belief. Correct me if I am wrong but he is stating that is probaly the basis of the belif, and if not for the guy to correct it. Either way what else could his belief have came from? If you say his parrents where do you think they got it from? :wink:
March 29, 200719 yr I never said this: 1. God exists because it says so in the Bible. Thanks to Intarweb for not misinterpreting :)
March 29, 200719 yr I never said this: 1. God exists because it says so in the Bible. Thanks to Intarweb for not misinterpreting :) So why do you belive in god? Just because?
March 29, 200719 yr I never said this: 1. God exists because it says so in the Bible. Thanks to Intarweb for not misinterpreting :) So why do you belive in god? Just because? Some reasons I've already mentioned: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?p=447 ... t=#4475075
March 29, 200719 yr Author *Wonders if Assassin is ever going to finish that article* My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley
March 29, 200719 yr *Wonders if Assassin is ever going to finish that article* Crikey that took some reading. Okay, I will concede that I didn't fully understand the historical context of the incident. I misinterpreted it, sorry. However, my point stands that the God of the Old Testament is one that frequently ordered acts that by today's standards would be deemed cruel and unncessary, and these were particularly well carried out by people who we consider pillars of faith in modern society. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo"
March 29, 200719 yr *Wonders if Assassin is ever going to finish that article* Crikey that took some reading. Okay, I will concede that I didn't fully understand the historical context of the incident. I misinterpreted it, sorry. However, my point stands that the God of the Old Testament is one that frequently ordered acts that by today's standards would be deemed cruel and unncessary, and these were particularly well carried out by people who we consider pillars of faith in modern society. I've attempted to read as much of the thread as I could so forgive me if I overlooked the answer to this question. What do you believe is the primary difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament in terms of the group of people God is speaking to?
March 29, 200719 yr What do you believe is the primary difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament in terms of the group of people God is speaking to? Essentially none, except the difference in time. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo"
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