Physician-Aided Suicide: Your Opinion?

[warri0r45]

My best bet would still be death is not worse than what some people experience every waking second of thier lives. Ultimately it should be thier choice. If for some odd reason the only thing you ever experience after death is eternal pain, that's the chance they're going to have to take.

 

 

 

Can you really just judge death as better because of the lack of pain? There is also a lack of joy from family, a lack of consciousness, a lack of thought, hope, love, happiness. Death lacks so many of the things that we love about life, and you can't just say "what if he has no family, no friends, etc" because again, we don't know what it is to be dead.

 

 

 

It's like Hegel's philosophy about the thesis and the antithesis. Do you really know what it is to be a man? Well, if you spent a year as a woman and then went back to being a man, I think you would have a better grasp on what it means to be a man. It's just like life - we don't truly know how awesome life is until maybe we've died - once we know the opposite, we can know for sure. Maybe the smallest joy that life brings outweighs the pain you are talking about. I don't know, but neither do you.

 

 

 

That's the take home message I suppose. All we can do is throw ideas around and wonder. I see where you're coming from, hence why my opinion was merely my best bet. I'm not going to pretend I know it's better or worse. One day I'll find out...

[lawrencekill]

I also stand for the elimination of all brain dead people and vegetables. They are wasting a lot of money. Just let them go to a better place already, rather then keeping them here on earth in a horrible condition.

I don't agree with that. I watched a documentary a while back and it was about people that had woken up from being in a vegetated state against all the odds and all that jazz. And they were saying that they could understand alot of what was happening and stuff and basically it was so unbelievably scary.

 

 

 

I only have vague memories of it cos it was a while ago that I watched it so i cant remember all the stuff exactly but you cant just kill them off really.

 

 

 

And in an answer to the title of the thread - to put it simply, yes i support euthanasia.

 

 

 

Well there have been miraclous recoveries from people in a vegetated state, but more often the people will remain in their vegetated state then recover(I'm assuming that doctors say the odds are against them).

[forsaken]

This is really turning out nicely. Great discussion so far guys. I'm finding some really good points and opinions that would go nicely into my paper.

 

While talking to one of my other teachers about this subject he brought up this point:

 

 

 

"If a woman is pregnant and wants to kill it, it's called an abortion. If someone comes up and punches her in the stomach the fetus dies, it's called man slaughter. Why is that?"

 

 

 

If anyone would like to comment on ^^that^^, it'd be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can draw a technical distinction in that in the former scenario, it is her body, her choice and her livelihood which is put at stake. The burden of pregnancy lies on her, as well as all potential risks [which can be life-threatening]. I'm not going to argue the moral gray area here - that all people have a right to live etc - but the point of the matter is, it was her choice to conceive, and thus it should be her choice whether or not to carry the child.

 

 

 

In the latter case, the man has walked up - with the intention, I'm assuming - to kill the child. Provided it isn't his child [even if it was, it'd still be the woman's right, but I won't get there, too many if's and thus scenarios if I do] he has taken the choice of the child's life out of the hands of the woman. Here, he has no right to do so, as he has no part in the conception, nor is it his "child" or "fetus" that he is undertaking the action against. He has, for all intents and purposes, impeded on the a person's fundamental right to not be arbitarily interfered with.

 

 

 

Specifically, but not solely limited to, outlined by the following:

 

 

 

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

[Korskin]

@ Korskin

 

 

 

I see you're very against physician-aided-suicide, however I'd like to share a story with you. One that deeply burdens me and I remember unfortunately every day. It makes me want to cry for the pain suffered that was turned down to her.

 

 

 

My grandmother died at 65 on January 6th, 2000. My Grandma had three different cancers, esophogial, lung, and bone cancer. My grandma was diagnosed them in November and was told she'd be lucky if she had more than a month, and if she did she'd go into extreme pain and possibly paralysis if the bone cancer got any worse.

 

 

 

On Christmas day, it got worse. We visited my Grandma on Christ, being only 9 at the time, I wanted Santa Clause with all my heart to make my Grandma better, I didn't want any presents. Is this something a 9 year old should want for for Christmas? Of course not. It was an abrupt visit, they were going to try some with Bone Marrow, some "new" thing that would cure her.

 

 

 

It was inevitable, she was going to die. My grandma was so in pain all you could hear was scream. We wanted to go through with a psysician aided suicide. My dad however did not approve. My grandma went through 12 days of extreme pain. We visited every day and cried every day. I would never wish someone upon that.

 

 

 

You say memories, I say why?

 

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's hard for me to say that your experience may have something good in it. Maybe it brought your family closer together, maybe this experience gave you a better perspective on life. I don't know. But I will still stand by my believes. I think our lives should lie solely in the hands of God.

[mad4u689]

My best bet would still be death is not worse than what some people experience every waking second of thier lives. Ultimately it should be thier choice. If for some odd reason the only thing you ever experience after death is eternal pain, that's the chance they're going to have to take.

 

 

 

Can you really just judge death as better because of the lack of pain? There is also a lack of joy from family, a lack of consciousness, a lack of thought, hope, love, happiness. Death lacks so many of the things that we love about life, and you can't just say "what if he has no family, no friends, etc" because again, we don't know what it is to be dead.

 

 

 

It's like Hegel's philosophy about the thesis and the antithesis. Do you really know what it is to be a man? Well, if you spent a year as a woman and then went back to being a man, I think you would have a better grasp on what it means to be a man. It's just like life - we don't truly know how awesome life is until maybe we've died - once we know the opposite, we can know for sure. Maybe the smallest joy that life brings outweighs the pain you are talking about. I don't know, but neither do you.

 

 

 

Exactly - I don't know, but neither do you. But you can't legislate based on "well, nobody knows what death is, so let's force them to remain alive, based on the assumption that life is better!" No - that's exactly why the choice has to remain in the hands of the individual.

 

 

 

Also, I find it hard to imagine (if death is truly the loss of consciousness, and there is nothing "more" after death like an afterlife) that one could ever know death and thus appreciate life more, because death is precisely the lack of knowledge, the lack of awareness. In my opinion (because you can have an opinion about what death may or may not contain), we have known death before - and that is before our birth. It is just nonexistence. And so, if I were suffering more than enjoying, I would prefer to not exist and feel neither joy nor pain. Not everyone would make this same choice. But that's why it has to be a choice.

[tru_vampire0]

 

This supports my point that life is something so precious and so personal that only the individual whose life is at stake (and nature) should have control over. Thus, an individual has the right to hir own opinion about whether death will be better or not, and can make the ultimate decision.

 

How can death be better than life? Why should we help kill such a precious thing as life? No matter how miserable your life is there is always something good you can do with your life. Don't throw away that opportunity just because your life is far from perfect.

 

 

 

How can you say that? You're really starting to annoy me and others on this thread Korskin. you just said:

 

 

 

No matter how miserable your life is there is always something good you can do with your life.

 

Now please tell me this. If i had some freak accident in which i became totally paralyzed and brain dead but was still living, how in the hell could i somehow find something good to do with my life. With no ability to move or speak or probably think, What can i do? Korskin, you seem very ignorant and arrogant (which is what is expected of a 10 year-old, which I assume you are) so just please forget that this topic exists and leave. I know there is nothing that I really can do to stop you, but I'm asking you to please not post here again.

[Satenza]

 

It's like Hegel's philosophy about the thesis and the antithesis. Do you really know what it is to be a man? Well, if you spent a year as a woman and then went back to being a man, I think you would have a better grasp on what it means to be a man. It's just like life - we don't truly know how awesome life is until maybe we've died - once we know the opposite, we can know for sure. Maybe the smallest joy that life brings outweighs the pain you are talking about. I don't know, but neither do you.

 

 

 

I don't understand the comparison of that to Hegel's thesis and antithesis. Could you explain that to me?

[insane]

 

It's like Hegel's philosophy about the thesis and the antithesis. Do you really know what it is to be a man? Well, if you spent a year as a woman and then went back to being a man, I think you would have a better grasp on what it means to be a man. It's just like life - we don't truly know how awesome life is until maybe we've died - once we know the opposite, we can know for sure. Maybe the smallest joy that life brings outweighs the pain you are talking about. I don't know, but neither do you.

 

 

 

I don't understand the comparison of that to Hegel's thesis and antithesis. Could you explain that to me?

 

 

 

Well Hegel never actually used the terms thesis and antithesis. I guess it was a mistake to refer to the idea of Hegel's, maybe it wasn't his philosophy.

 

 

 

My point was simply, that we can never truly know what it means to be [X], until we have been [not X] (see woman/man example). You might think that this person's life is nothing but pain, but until we've experienced death, we don't know that for sure. The smallest amount of joy that the person experiences could be worth the pain in relation to death, but again, we don't know since we have never experienced the 'antithesis' of life (even though its full of pain).

[Satenza]

 

It's like Hegel's philosophy about the thesis and the antithesis. Do you really know what it is to be a man? Well, if you spent a year as a woman and then went back to being a man, I think you would have a better grasp on what it means to be a man. It's just like life - we don't truly know how awesome life is until maybe we've died - once we know the opposite, we can know for sure. Maybe the smallest joy that life brings outweighs the pain you are talking about. I don't know, but neither do you.

 

 

 

I don't understand the comparison of that to Hegel's thesis and antithesis. Could you explain that to me?

 

 

 

Well Hegel never actually used the terms thesis and antithesis. I guess it was a mistake to refer to the idea of Hegel's, maybe it wasn't his philosophy.

 

 

 

My point was simply, that we can never truly know what it means to be [X], until we have been [not X] (see woman/man example). You might think that this person's life is nothing but pain, but until we've experienced death, we don't know that for sure. The smallest amount of joy that the person experiences could be worth the pain in relation to death, but again, we don't know since we have never experienced the 'antithesis' of life (even though its full of pain).

 

 

 

Ah i understand, the thesis equals life, the antithesis equals the absense of life and whether or not life is worthwhile is resolved by the Synthesis?

[insane]

Ah i understand, the thesis equals life, the antithesis equals the absense of life and whether or not life is worthwhile is resolved by the Synthesis?

 

 

 

Exactly :) which kind of I guess ends the discussion because we can never reach the synthesis before death :P

[Abyssalwhip]

I say if a person wants to die they should unless they're high or drunk.

[darkmage099]

I say if a person wants to die they should unless they're high or drunk.

 

 

 

But should someone be allowed to help them?

[Abyssalwhip]

I say if a person wants to die they should unless they're high or drunk.

 

 

 

But should someone be allowed to help them?

That's what

 

I meant.

[Kaioke]

@ Korskin

 

 

 

I see you're very against physician-aided-suicide, however I'd like to share a story with you. One that deeply burdens me and I remember unfortunately every day. It makes me want to cry for the pain suffered that was turned down to her.

 

 

 

My grandmother died at 65 on January 6th, 2000. My Grandma had three different cancers, esophogial, lung, and bone cancer. My grandma was diagnosed them in November and was told she'd be lucky if she had more than a month, and if she did she'd go into extreme pain and possibly paralysis if the bone cancer got any worse.

 

 

 

On Christmas day, it got worse. We visited my Grandma on Christ, being only 9 at the time, I wanted Santa Clause with all my heart to make my Grandma better, I didn't want any presents. Is this something a 9 year old should want for for Christmas? Of course not. It was an abrupt visit, they were going to try some with Bone Marrow, some "new" thing that would cure her.

 

 

 

It was inevitable, she was going to die. My grandma was so in pain all you could hear was scream. We wanted to go through with a psysician aided suicide. My dad however did not approve. My grandma went through 12 days of extreme pain. We visited every day and cried every day. I would never wish someone upon that.

 

 

 

You say memories, I say why?

 

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's hard for me to say that your experience may have something good in it. Maybe it brought your family closer together, maybe this experience gave you a better perspective on life. I don't know. But I will still stand by my believes. I think our lives should lie solely in the hands of God.

Hate to rain on your parade, but I dont' believe in god. So I think I should be exempt from that.

 

 

 

And I'd like to point it - it had no positive. Because she was in the hospital so long, we had to pay the bills, went into debt, caused the very recent divorce between my mother and father to get worse. Custody changes, I remembered going to the courts telling the judge I wanted to see mommy and daddy..

[Kaioke]

I say if a person wants to die they should unless they're high or drunk.

But should someone be allowed to help them?

Well, since suicide is illegal, the legal way should be ... ?

[warren211]

it depends on the situation. I had a talk with my local priest. He said if you're doing it to escape constant suffering of a terminal illness, then it is ok to end the pain. However, if you simply want to get out of financial trouble or other regular-life problems, then there's no excuse to kill yourself.

 

 

 

However, for all you christians, remember that Jesus sufferd the whole thing. He refused myrrh and the wine handed up to him that was supposed to numb the pain. he suffered every bit to the very end. I think he set an example for us.

[warri0r45]

it depends on the situation. I had a talk with my local priest. He said if you're doing it to escape constant suffering of a terminal illness, then it is ok to end the pain. However, if you simply want to get out of financial trouble or other regular-life problems, then there's no excuse to kill yourself.

 

 

 

However, for all you christians, remember that Jesus sufferd the whole thing. He refused myrrh and the wine handed up to him that was supposed to numb the pain. he suffered every bit to the very end. I think he set an example for us.

 

 

 

I always thought the message was - 'he suffered so we don't have to.'

[Rebdragon]

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's hard for me to say that your experience may have something good in it. Maybe it brought your family closer together, maybe this experience gave you a better perspective on life. I don't know. But I will still stand by my believes. I think our lives should lie solely in the hands of God.

Hate to rain on your parade, but I dont' believe in god. So I think I should be exempt from that.

 

 

 

And I'd like to point it - it had no positive. Because she was in the hospital so long, we had to pay the bills, went into debt, caused the very recent divorce between my mother and father to get worse. Custody changes, I remembered going to the courts telling the judge I wanted to see mommy and daddy..

 

I was actually taught about assisted suicide in a Morality class this year, and I learned a few important things about the Church's opinion.

 

 

 

1) The Church agrees that assisted suicide is permitted if the one who is suffering is an extraordinary state (i.e., vegitative state, etc.).

 

 

 

2) To your point, cost IS a factor when considering whether or not to pull the plug. No one say any crap like "but it's a life, it has immeasurable value!". No person, excluding insane and extremely sadistic people, would want to be in extreme pain or in a vegitative state merely to be a financial burden to their loved ones.

 

 

 

Oh, when the Church folds on it, the big "pro-life" organization of the world, it's hard to argue the case against this action.

 

 

 

And Korskin, I know I've said this a thousand times, and I don't want this to turn into a religious debate >_<, but please stop talking about God like you know or have even met it. Don't use something you don't understand to support your point- that's just bad debate tactics.

[highlanders]

It's our life, we do whatever we want with it.

 

 

 

If I had sclerosis and that I was nailed to my hospital bed, dieing slowly, unable to breathe by myself, and that I'd want to kill myself, I wouldn't want anyone to stop me. After all, for some people, the courageous, honorful way to dieing is to step up and make the decision. There's a ton of ways to die disgustingly, everyone should have the choice to die with honor, not in one of those disgusting ways.

 

 

 

Besides, how would you feel if somebody telled you "no you can't do that" as if you were some sort of little kid, being bossed around.

[Korskin]

 

This supports my point that life is something so precious and so personal that only the individual whose life is at stake (and nature) should have control over. Thus, an individual has the right to hir own opinion about whether death will be better or not, and can make the ultimate decision.

 

How can death be better than life? Why should we help kill such a precious thing as life? No matter how miserable your life is there is always something good you can do with your life. Don't throw away that opportunity just because your life is far from perfect.

 

 

 

How can you say that? You're really starting to annoy me and others on this thread Korskin. you just said:

 

 

 

No matter how miserable your life is there is always something good you can do with your life.

 

Now please tell me this. If i had some freak accident in which i became totally paralyzed and brain dead but was still living, how in the hell could i somehow find something good to do with my life. With no ability to move or speak or probably think, What can i do? Korskin, you seem very ignorant and arrogant (which is what is expected of a 10 year-old, which I assume you are) so just please forget that this topic exists and leave. I know there is nothing that I really can do to stop you, but I'm asking you to please not post here again.

 

I'm thinking if someone is brain-dead, it's a different story. What I've been talking about so far can't be applied to brain-dead people. I don't expect you to like me or agree with me. But I've done nothing other than sharing my opinions, which you asked for us to do.

 

 

 

And Korskin, I know I've said this a thousand times, and I don't want this to turn into a religious debate >_<, but please stop talking about God like you know or have even met it. Don't use something you don't understand to support your point- that's just bad debate tactics.

 

I actually think you can get to know God. You can't fully grasp everything about him, but you can get to know him. I believe God wants to have a relationship with everyone and by reading the Bible and praying to him I think you learn something about God.