Physician-Aided Suicide: Your Opinion?

[Viktorkrum77]

There is a rather thick line between instant pain and longterm pain. Instant pain you can train yourself not to feel, through Eastern Philosophy and the such or self meditation, but long term pain you can't. You can't get rid of longterm pain no matter how hard you try.

[lunapasa]

Any person should be allowed to kill themselves, it's their life.

 

If a doctor can make it painless, why not?

[Parabola]

It's very easy for people to condemn suicide/euthanasia when they've never faced pure, unending agony for the rest of their lives.

 

 

 

To make such judgements without any idea of the suffering someone who wants euthanasia is undergoing is selfish, ignorant and arrogant. I'd wager you'd quickly change your tune and stop preaching were you to be in their situation.

[dsavi]

I do not support suicide in any form.

[richpoepaap]

Okay, well, My grandfather is actually having that done tomorrow morning.

 

Noone can judge this without having experienced someone near them who has had this.(or is going to) You simply can't. My grandfather is done with life. He's tired. He wants to end it himself. Are we the persons to judge if this is right or not? Should we say he has to life on? No. It's his decision. He made it himself, and that should be respected.

 

Off course, there have to be strict rules for these sorts of things. You need to make sure that the patient really wants it, and that he/she fully understands what he/she is deciding. In Belgium you need the approval of at least 2 doctors.

 

-I'm religious btw.

[darkmage099]

"Son, I'm not going to touch that with a 40ft long pole"

 

 

 

-Jesus

[Bubsa]

Okay, well, My grandfather is actually having that done tomorrow morning.

 

Noone can judge this without having experienced someone near them who has had this.(or is going to) You simply can't. My grandfather is done with life. He's tired. He wants to end it himself. Are we the persons to judge if this is right or not? Should we say he has to life on? No. It's his decision. He made it himself, and that should be respected.

 

Off course, there have to be strict rules for these sorts of things. You need to make sure that the patient really wants it, and that he/she fully understands what he/she is deciding. In Belgium you need the approval of at least 2 doctors.

 

-I'm religious btw.

 

 

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you can't judge it either. I really feel for what you're going through, I truly do, but I could never imagine what your grandfather is; it's a whole new level.

[angryjoe]

I also stand for the elimination of all brain dead people and vegetables. They are wasting a lot of money. Just let them go to a better place already, rather then keeping them here on earth in a horrible condition.

I don't agree with that. I watched a documentary a while back and it was about people that had woken up from being in a vegetated state against all the odds and all that jazz. And they were saying that they could understand alot of what was happening and stuff and basically it was so unbelievably scary.

 

 

 

I only have vague memories of it cos it was a while ago that I watched it so i cant remember all the stuff exactly but you cant just kill them off really.

 

 

 

And in an answer to the title of the thread - to put it simply, yes i support euthanasia.

[Korla]

I agree with most of what Peter Singer, a living Utilitarianist has to say on this:

 

 

 

• it has to be performed by a doctor
   
  the patient has to genuinely ask for euthanasia in a way that leaves no doubt it's his will to die
   
  the patient's decision is well-informed, of his own will and permanent
   
  the patient suffers from an incurable illness which causes long-term physical or mental suffering that the patient considers insufferable
   
  there is no reasonable alternative (in from the patient's point-of-view) of reducing the patient's suffering
   
  the doctor has consulted another unrelated doctor who agrees with the judgment

 

 

 

In some of those there may be very much to discuss in each case, for example the permanence of his decision. But I still think that's as close to a good description of a way to consider this I've seen.

[Viktorkrum77]

• there is no reasonable alternative (in from the patient's point-of-view) of reducing the patient's suffering

 

 

 

What if they can't afford it? And insurance won't cover enough of it. Or is that under the terms of "reasonable". "Reasonable" based on income? :-k

[Korla]

• there is no reasonable alternative (in from the patient's point-of-view) of reducing the patient's suffering

 

 

 

What if they can't afford it? And insurance won't cover enough of it. Or is that under the terms of "reasonable". "Reasonable" based on income? :-k

 

 

 

We didn't discuss that point in my philosophy class and I don't think it really is a part of THAT moral question. One could perhaps argue that the social structure that uses these guidelines in their rules concerning euthanasia would somehow cover it. But to me that's more a social question rather than moral, and not interesting when discussing how to think about euthanasia.

 

 

 

Money issues ARE moral issues in themselves, but in practice they have to be discussed separately from other moral questions, and perhaps, logically, after which of the suggested guidelines we are to follow.

[tru_vampire0]

This is really turning out nicely. Great discussion so far guys. I'm finding some really good points and opinions that would go nicely into my paper.

 

While talking to one of my other teachers about this subject he brought up this point:

 

 

 

"If a woman is pregnant and wants to kill it, it's called an abortion. If someone comes up and punches her in the stomach the fetus dies, it's called man slaughter. Why is that?"

 

 

 

If anyone would like to comment on ^^that^^, it'd be appreciated.

 

 

 

Another example i've thought of is pets. If you have a dog who is deaf, blind, arthritic and has a tumor or two, most families will agree to put it to sleep. So why shouldn't we be able to do this for us humans? Why is it that today's society has sort of put the human life up on this pedestal? in the end we're all just different organisms trying to thrive on this planet. Don't get me wrong, the human soul is obviously much more precious and advanced than that of a dog, but I still think that it's just kind of wrong that we can give a dog a painless death of being put out of misery and can't do this for a dying old man in pain.

 

 

 

Another thing. I've read recently that it is (or was) not uncommon for soldiers to be put out of their misery right there on the battle field. Alot of times if some soldier just stepped on a landmine and the bottom half of his body is just gone, another soldier would usually shoot 3 doses of morphine into the down soldier (with his consent of course) and then leave him there to die or bring him maybe to a more peaceful area. Either way, this a a huge topic.

[Korskin]

 

Another example i've thought of is pets. If you have a dog who is deaf, blind, arthritic and has a tumor or two, most families will agree to put it to sleep. So why shouldn't we be able to do this for us humans? Why is it that today's society has sort of put the human life up on this pedestal? in the end we're all just different organisms trying to thrive on this planet. Don't get me wrong, the human soul is obviously much more precious and advanced than that of a dog, but I still think that it's just kind of wrong that we can give a dog a painless death of being put out of misery and can't do this for a dying old man in pain.

 

I believe there is a difference between man and animals. We are put on earth to rule all animals. Therefore we can decide if they should live or die. Human lives however, lie in the hands of God.

[insane]

The entire discussion is obsolete because nobody knows that death is going to be any better. You're assuming that death is better than pain, and that can't be proven since none of us have died.

[deathhead154]

If someone wants to die, then they'll find a way to do it. Often they won't be pretty.

 

 

 

This helps people die in a somewhat dignified manner. Yay for euthanasia.

[warri0r45]

The entire discussion is obsolete because nobody knows that death is going to be any better. You're assuming that death is better than pain, and that can't be proven since none of us have died.

 

 

 

We're all going to die at some point. It's inevitable. What difference does a few years in eternity make? In all honesty I'd rather take my chances.

[mad4u689]

The entire discussion is obsolete because nobody knows that death is going to be any better. You're assuming that death is better than pain, and that can't be proven since none of us have died.

 

 

 

This supports my point that life is something so precious and so personal that only the individual whose life is at stake (and nature) should have control over. Thus, an individual has the right to hir own opinion about whether death will be better or not, and can make the ultimate decision.

[Korskin]

 

This supports my point that life is something so precious and so personal that only the individual whose life is at stake (and nature) should have control over. Thus, an individual has the right to hir own opinion about whether death will be better or not, and can make the ultimate decision.

 

How can death be better than life? Why should we help kill such a precious thing as life? No matter how miserable your life is there is always something good you can do with your life. Don't throw away that opportunity just because your life is far from perfect.

[warri0r45]

 

This supports my point that life is something so precious and so personal that only the individual whose life is at stake (and nature) should have control over. Thus, an individual has the right to hir own opinion about whether death will be better or not, and can make the ultimate decision.

 

How can death be better than life? Why should we help kill such a precious thing as life? No matter how miserable your life is there is always something good you can do with your life. Don't throw away that opportunity just because your life is far from perfect.

 

 

 

You're a bit liberal there, don't you think? Some people don't actually have the capacity to help. Some people don't even have the capacity to move. And as a furthur smack in the face, some people can't move and have constant pain. Some can't even think. As sadistic as it sounds, thier crippled bodies have made thier lives worthless.

 

 

 

Yeah, life is an absolute gift, but that dosen't mean you should turn a blind eye and let it be a burden.

[Flametrooper]

This issue comes down to the same question that underlies Abortion: "Which is a more supreme and sacred right - the right to life, or the right to free choice?"

 

Personally I would say the right to freedom and free choice is a more sacred and inalieable human right than the right to life. But that's only me.

[Korskin]

 

You're a bit liberal there, don't you think? Some people don't actually have the capacity to help. Some people don't even have the capacity to move. And as a furthur smack in the face, some people can't move and have constant pain. Some can't even think. As sadistic as it sounds, thier crippled bodies have made thier lives worthless.

 

 

 

Yeah, life is an absolute gift, but that dosen't mean you should turn a blind eye and let it be a burden.

 

You don't need to be able to move to do something good. In my previous example I mentioned such a lady. Her story moved and inspired me, woke me up and made me realise that I have no reason to feel disappointed with my life. Compared to her I'm very fortunate. I will argue that their lives aren't worthless.

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you can't think you are brain-dead and therefore can't feel pain.

[insane]

The entire discussion is obsolete because nobody knows that death is going to be any better. You're assuming that death is better than pain, and that can't be proven since none of us have died.

 

 

 

We're all going to die at some point. It's inevitable. What difference does a few years in eternity make? In all honesty I'd rather take my chances.

 

 

 

I can't see how you actually addressed anything I said there.

 

 

 

 

 

an individual has the right to hir own opinion about whether death will be better or not, and can make the ultimate decision.

 

 

 

What will their opinion be based on? It's like there's two boxes. In one box is one number, and in another box is another number. You are allowed to look at one of the numbers. Now what you're telling me, is that the individual can just "form an opinion" about whether or not the other number is greater or less in value. Is that opinion really going to have any substance to it?

[warri0r45]

The entire discussion is obsolete because nobody knows that death is going to be any better. You're assuming that death is better than pain, and that can't be proven since none of us have died.

 

 

 

We're all going to die at some point. It's inevitable. What difference does a few years in eternity make? In all honesty I'd rather take my chances.

 

 

 

I can't see how you actually addressed anything I said there.

 

 

 

 

I though I might have rushed through it, sorry. Let me try to think what I was getting at. Sorry, I'll be honest and say I'm not sure what my point was.

 

 

 

My best bet would still be death is not worse than what some people experience every waking second of thier lives. Ultimately it should be thier choice. If for some odd reason the only thing you ever experience after death is eternal pain, that's the chance they're going to have to take.

[insane]

My best bet would still be death is not worse than what some people experience every waking second of thier lives. Ultimately it should be thier choice. If for some odd reason the only thing you ever experience after death is eternal pain, that's the chance they're going to have to take.

 

 

 

Can you really just judge death as better because of the lack of pain? There is also a lack of joy from family, a lack of consciousness, a lack of thought, hope, love, happiness. Death lacks so many of the things that we love about life, and you can't just say "what if he has no family, no friends, etc" because again, we don't know what it is to be dead.

 

 

 

It's like Hegel's philosophy about the thesis and the antithesis. Do you really know what it is to be a man? Well, if you spent a year as a woman and then went back to being a man, I think you would have a better grasp on what it means to be a man. It's just like life - we don't truly know how awesome life is until maybe we've died - once we know the opposite, we can know for sure. Maybe the smallest joy that life brings outweighs the pain you are talking about. I don't know, but neither do you.

[Kaioke]

@ Korskin

 

 

 

I see you're very against physician-aided-suicide, however I'd like to share a story with you. One that deeply burdens me and I remember unfortunately every day. It makes me want to cry for the pain suffered that was turned down to her.

 

 

 

My grandmother died at 65 on January 6th, 2000. My Grandma had three different cancers, esophogial, lung, and bone cancer. My grandma was diagnosed them in November and was told she'd be lucky if she had more than a month, and if she did she'd go into extreme pain and possibly paralysis if the bone cancer got any worse.

 

 

 

On Christmas day, it got worse. We visited my Grandma on Christ, being only 9 at the time, I wanted Santa Clause with all my heart to make my Grandma better, I didn't want any presents. Is this something a 9 year old should want for for Christmas? Of course not. It was an abrupt visit, they were going to try some with Bone Marrow, some "new" thing that would cure her.

 

 

 

It was inevitable, she was going to die. My grandma was so in pain all you could hear was scream. We wanted to go through with a psysician aided suicide. My dad however did not approve. My grandma went through 12 days of extreme pain. We visited every day and cried every day. I would never wish someone upon that.

 

 

 

You say memories, I say why?