angryjoe Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 But because of anti-gun laws, very few people have guns, including the burglars. Its similar to the cold war, I suppose. The burglar gets a pistol, the homeowner gets a pistol. So the burglar brings a shotgun, so the homeowner also gets a shotgun. So the burglar brings a tank, and the homwowner follows suit. See what I mean? With our system, apart from the gangs and whatnot, no one has guns. And so a burglar will rarely even take a weapon, and the homeowner will have something like a cricket bat. A LOT safer, don't you agree? Does Britain border Mexico, Central America, and South America? No. Does America? Yes. Where do most of the drugs/illegal weapons come from? Those exact places I mentioned, it will be easy to get them here with or without gun laws rather than in Britain, which is an island. But smuggling of weapons from Eastern Europe is rife. The situation isn't as bad as what it would be in the US, I agree, but there are still a hell of a lot of firearms being smuggled into the country across the channel.Dont forget the Welsh either i mean bloody hell! joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilageidiotx Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Of course you won't stop gang members, and people who really need or want a gun. What you will stop however, are these impulsive teens, being given one too many wedgies, noticing their dad's 'protection' pistol, and taking it to school, and wreaking havoc, as this protection pistol wouldn't have existed. You think that banning guns will make that pistol disappear off of his shelf? You are poorly mistaken. That's almost as idealistic as thinking prohibition will make alcohol disappear, is just doesn't work that way. But guns aren't alcohol. I can't think of how to word this, just an example. Because of anti-gun laws in the UK, only a few inner city gang members carry guns, and only farmers have them in their house. Seems like the system works to me... And @ Villageidiot, I agree, we should find a way to get rid of the violence which exists in society today, but the readiness of guns to hormonal teenagers is still very worrying. Well maybe education for gun owners rather then restrictions should be in order? If parents knew more then perhaps they would put them in safes or other unreachable places. Some people are like slinkies, normally they are dull, but they always give you a smile when you push them down a flight of stairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompey_spud Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 But guns aren't alcohol. I can't think of how to word this, just an example. Because of anti-gun laws in the UK, only a few inner city gang members carry guns, and only farmers have them in their house. Seems like the system works to me... But we have had guns for so long, banning them now would do NOTHING. We live in a completely different society than that of the UK, you can't change that by banning a few weapons. Trust me, people will find ways of obtaining them, or they will just create something that is far worse. So create a gun amnesty (is that the word I want?). Over time, guns would pass out of the system, and the bullied teenagers, when they snap, won't be able to reach for daddy's pistol. Edit - Yes to all of that VillageIdiot. That is what exists in the UK, as others have said before me. To get a gun, you need a safe housing uni,t knowledge of the housing unit, knowledge of the weapon, and then a license to get the weapon. And it works fine. That doesnt happen in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WutangFlu Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Banning guns would go as well as banning alcohol, it would go the way of prohibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompey_spud Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Banning guns would go as well as banning alcohol, it would go the way of prohibition. Read the rest of the thread next time, eh? But guns aren't alcohol. I can't think of how to word this, just an example. Because of anti-gun laws in the UK, only a few inner city gang members carry guns, and only farmers have them in their house. Seems like the system works to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktorkrum77 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 But we have had guns for so long, banning them now would do NOTHING. We live in a completely different society than that of the UK, you can't change that by banning a few weapons. Trust me, people will find ways of obtaining them, or they will just create something that is far worse. Our society and the Swiss society may differ but if they can have guns and maintain one of the world's lowest crime rates, then we can. Psycho people will not go around killing people if they know they could be killed just as easily by any person they try to shoot. As I said, even in America in a small city in Georgia, everyone has a gun, and that city is the safest in the country. It's like drugs, there's no way to stop it. And would you rather there be an underground black market in America for guns? That won't change anything, it will make the situation worse because the criminals will hold the advantage, and no one will be able to defend and they will die. In America, with a ban it will just make guns more predominate on the black market, more expensive no doubt, but it will be huge. Me doing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisRune83 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Guns are so damn stupid. All you have to do with them is just shoot somebody and that's all you have to do. Pointless. First - Credit to Otbg . Second - Credit to 4be2jue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompey_spud Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 But we have had guns for so long, banning them now would do NOTHING. We live in a completely different society than that of the UK, you can't change that by banning a few weapons. Trust me, people will find ways of obtaining them, or they will just create something that is far worse. Our society and the Swiss society may differ but if they can have guns and maintain one of the world's lowest crime rates, then we can. Psycho people will not go around killing people if they know they could be killed just as easily by any person they try to shoot. As I said, even in America in a small city in Georgia, everyone has a gun, and that city is the safest in the country. It's like drugs, there's no way to stop it. And would you rather there be an underground black market in America for guns? That won't change anything, it will make the situation worse because the criminals will hold the advantage, and no one will be able to defend and they will die. In America, with a ban it will just make guns more predominate on the black market, more expensive no doubt, but it will be huge. Think you quoted the wrong thing :) I see your point, and it makes sense, but I just doubt the system would work in America. This town in Georgia must have some trustworthy residents. I just don't trust people enough to have this responsibility. It amazes me that it works in Switzerland. Theres 2.5 guns to every person who lives there, and I just don't ever ever see it happening in countries like mine or yours. Anyway, I'm off to bed, I'll pick it up again tommorow if anyone posts some more. Thanks for the entertaining evening, this is one of the better debates i've seen on the board for a while, if you all don't mind me saying :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryjoe Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 But we have had guns for so long, banning them now would do NOTHING. We live in a completely different society than that of the UK, you can't change that by banning a few weapons. Trust me, people will find ways of obtaining them, or they will just create something that is far worse. Our society and the Swiss society may differ but if they can have guns and maintain one of the world's lowest crime rates, then we can. Psycho people will not go around killing people if they know they could be killed just as easily by any person they try to shoot. As I said, even in America in a small city in Georgia, everyone has a gun, and that city is the safest in the country. It's like drugs, there's no way to stop it. And would you rather there be an underground black market in America for guns? That won't change anything, it will make the situation worse because the criminals will hold the advantage, and no one will be able to defend and they will die. In America, with a ban it will just make guns more predominate on the black market, more expensive no doubt, but it will be huge.The swiss dont just 'have guns' though they have this whole training programme thing that they do a few days a year and other stuff look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WutangFlu Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Banning guns would go as well as banning alcohol, it would go the way of prohibition. Read the rest of the thread next time, eh? But guns aren't alcohol. I can't think of how to word this, just an example. Because of anti-gun laws in the UK, only a few inner city gang members carry guns, and only farmers have them in their house. Seems like the system works to me... im tired, and very lazy at the moment, my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Now you're putting words into people's mouths :\ He meant that they snap and then reach for the gun, not see the gun and snap. If the gun isn't there, he's saying it's harder to take the frustration out on such a grand scale. That's funny, he didn't mention anything about that. I guess you know more about what he says than himself. Man, forget this. You show your outrage when someone makes a false conclusion, and yet you continue to do so yourself. Pointless to argue, I'm out. Umm, but I didn't make a false conclusion? Look at what he said after, If you gave everyone in Britain a gun, there would be civil war. :: Guess the Movie Contest Champion: pfilc23 :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitramosma Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I actually agree with the idea of a gun to every person. Some here claim that if guns were banned and people had to resort to knives and bats and other such objects then they would only be able to take out one or two people. Well isn't that the same as if everyone had a gun? Guy shoots two people, then gets shot by a third. Shooter dead, Problem solved. I understand that it isn't that simple and that a loss a life is never a desirable situation, but I think more guns would actually reduce crime as in Switzerland and that city and Georgia. Also I know its easy to say a kid snaps from being bullied and goes home and grabs a gun to shoot his tormentors, but the real problems here seem to be the large number of bullies and the lack of gun security. The main issue I have here is the bullies. Everyone in a school knows who the bullies are and who gets bullied frequently, but no one does anything. I've even heard many cases of adults or teachers knowing about this and not doing. I think fixing society's problems is the permanent solution to the temporary fix of banning guns. For every person that shoots someone in a rage, there are probably tens of thousands or even more people who use firearms completely responsibly and they do not deserve to lose that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonpost Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I'm not really sure where to stand on this, but I can say this. If anyone attempts to say that the UK doesn't have any guns and it's fine...that could NEVER happen in the US. The US borders Canada and Mexico, so illegal guns could get into the US if there is a demand. Not to mention the government would have one hell of a time getting all the guns that people own now; it's simply not possible. Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A total ban will do nothing. Keep in mind that the shooting today was carried out with an assault rifle, which is outlawed in the US. When you make guns illegal, only the criminals will have the guns. Not to mention it kicks the crap out of the Second Amendment. And look at Switzerland. Every household is required by LAW to have a gun. Lowest crime rates in the world. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonpost Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A total ban will do nothing. Keep in mind that the shooting today was carried out with an assault rifle, which is outlawed in the US. . No...the guy had a semi-auto 9mm pistol and a semi-auto .22 pistol. But good points otherwise Barihawk. Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WutangFlu Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A total ban will do nothing. Keep in mind that the shooting today was carried out with an assault rifle, which is outlawed in the US. . No...the guy had a semi-auto 9mm pistol and a semi-auto .22 pistol. Dual 9mm's actually.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonpost Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 My bad, scratch that. Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryjoe Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A total ban will do nothing. Keep in mind that the shooting today was carried out with an assault rifle, which is outlawed in the US. . No...the guy had a semi-auto 9mm pistol and a semi-auto .22 pistol. Dual 9mm's actually....Does it really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_OnE Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I'm going to have to side with Shadow on this. I think it was him who said that if the US bans guns, the only people who will have them is the criminals. The banning of guns will take away the freedom of those who would use them legally away. At the same time, criminals will use whatever means they find necessary to obtain them. The second the banning of guns happens, the underground gun market will begin to flourish. In my opinion, the shooter at Virginia Tech, the Columbine shooters, and all of the other shooters would have found a way to obtain a gun or guns to carry out plans that they had probably been forming for over a year. If you read what Eric Harris (one of the Columbine shooters) wrote in his journal, you would realize that he was determined to get revenge on his school. He would not have let a gun ban stand in his way of revenge. A gun ban definitely wouldn't slow serial killers because they could just use a bat, a knife, or their own bare hands. I think most serial killers don't use guns anyway. The only thing I can see a ban on guns working for is a one time murderer. Even then though, they have other weapons that they could use. The fact that a baseball bat or a knife is weaker because a group can fend them off easily doesn't matter when you take into account that most single murders occur in more secluded places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A total ban will do nothing. Keep in mind that the shooting today was carried out with an assault rifle, which is outlawed in the US. . No...the guy had a semi-auto 9mm pistol and a semi-auto .22 pistol. Dual 9mm's actually....Does it really matter? Well the Assualt Rifle is illegal, and the 9mm isn't. It makes a huge difference. Apparenly it's okay to carry one kind of gun, but not others. If one of them was semi-automatic then why is it that a fully automatic gun (assualt rifle) isn't allowed? Another example of the complete and utter stupidty of America's laws. -.- Idiot nation.. By the by, has anyone seen the film 'Idiocracy'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Besides, why is it always yes or no with some people :? Like the example given, Switzerland, puts guns to good use. I think the answer is regulation rather than banishment. If the US government is more strict with the regulation (as in force people to undergo some sort of training) and make the penalties for having illegal guns more strict at the same time, it would be better that way IMO. :: Guess the Movie Contest Champion: pfilc23 :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonpost Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 If one of them was semi-automatic then why is it that a fully automatic gun (assualt rifle) isn't allowed? Another example of the complete and utter stupidty of America's laws. -.- Idiot nation.. There is a HUGE difference between a semi-auto pistol and a full auto rifle. A semi-auto pistol means that every time you pull the trigger a shot is fired; there is no need to [rooster] it back for each shot. A full auto rifle means you can hold down the trigger and unleash hell very quickly. Also, rifles have much better aim...you can mount a scope and they are made for engaging multiple targets and targets at medium range. Furthermore, a rifle's clip and be modified to hold over 100 rounds (typically about 90), whereas a pistol usually holds between 7 and 19 shots. A rifle is much, much more deadly. The law is not stupid, trust me. Like the example given, Switzerland, puts guns to good use. I think the answer is regulation rather than banishment. If the US government is more strict with the regulation (as in force people to undergo some sort of training) and make the penalties for having illegal guns more strict at the same time, it would be better that way IMO. Regulation gives guns to criminals and cops (and rednecks :)). It leaves the rest of the majority of the populace quite vulnerable. If you know EVERY one of your neighbors has a gun in his/her house, you'll be much less motivated to break in or try to kill someone. That's how it is in Switzerland. Hence the reason that there is a lot of all or none in this argument. Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryjoe Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A total ban will do nothing. Keep in mind that the shooting today was carried out with an assault rifle, which is outlawed in the US. . No...the guy had a semi-auto 9mm pistol and a semi-auto .22 pistol. Dual 9mm's actually....Does it really matter? Well the Assualt Rifle is illegal, and the 9mm isn't. It makes a huge difference. Apparenly it's okay to carry one kind of gun, but not others. If one of them was semi-automatic then why is it that a fully automatic gun (assualt rifle) isn't allowed? Another example of the complete and utter stupidty of America's laws. -.- Idiot nation.. By the by, has anyone seen the film 'Idiocracy'?I meant between what gonpost and LP wrote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktorkrum77 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 -Stop with the nested quotes already- Me doing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryjoe Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 -Stop with the nested quotes already-On that one i did all the quotes are pretty relevant to what I wrote. Sorry Lord Victor but no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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