My issues with Christianity.

[StrOwez]

please read through the topic before making unjust assumptions, there have been some excellent, clean debate on this topic with good arguments brought forth from each side of the argument.

 

 

 

I think you're forgetting that harsh bitterness underlines these arguments...

 

I support the ban.

The only harshness in this topic is brought by the people who don't talk about the topic.

 

 

 

I for one had great debates on here, and would love more. I for one like debating real life issues which affect people in the real world!

 

 

 

I may disagree with views of some people, but I still respect them and their believes.

 

 

 

EDIT: I'll say again, these issues we are debating affect people in the real world.

[Satenza]

Unless we have a debating subforum with proper rules laid out - and locking threads that dont meet the proper criteria because of those rules things like this will always happen. I do not think it is any reason to ban anything though.

 

 

 

I agree with Strowez, most of the flaming is coming from people flaming about topics rather than this specific thread. Like they are automatically made to read whats said in here.

 

 

 

You can not get to this thread by ommission.

[IGoddessI]

please read through the topic before making unjust assumptions, there have been some excellent, clean debate on this topic with good arguments brought forth from each side of the argument.

 

 

 

Yes there have been some excellent, clean debates on this topic. You are absolutely disregarding, however, the poorer, not so clean debates on this topic. You are also disregarding, the division in off topic between users posts regarding religion, the religious debates on topics that don't even concern religion and the 'religious' teams this post has created perhaps permanently in posts to come, unless a religious post ban is in place.

 

 

 

I understand that you have an ego and it certainly doesn't want to be deflated by finding weak points in the thread you've created. However, you need to wake up and smell the damn roses and get rid of those rose coloured glasses to the threads and posts you create.

 

 

 

I'm not coming back to off topic until these threads are gone; it has turned in to a happy community of people who could have intelligent discussions for the past several years to a divided team of God lovers or God haters.

 

 

 

This is not what off topic should be about and to cut the last slice of cake, I don't wish to be a part of a divided community.

[StrOwez]

IGoddessI- I won't be tempted into a flame war, so I shall be private messaging you instead. I hope next time you reply to my private message instead of again going off topic on my thread.

[Faux]

I have no problem with Christianity. I'm not a part of the thought police. The problem I have is with extremism which exists with every set of beliefs (or lack thereof).

[yomom1919]

The only harshness in this topic is brought by the people who don't talk about the topic.

 

 

 

I for one had great debates on here, and would love more. I for one like debating real life issues which affect people in the real world!

 

 

 

I may disagree with views of some people, but I still respect them and their believes.

 

 

 

I talk about the topic, if thats what you're implying. I visited and read and discussed in the homosexuality topic and the evolution in schools topic, and usually other ones. But I try not to cross into people making statements on beliefs. I enjoy these arguments also, and I disagree with people and still respect them, just like you. It's just unfortunate more people aren't the same. I'm sure when this thread is all said and done, you won't hold any grudges, but unfortunately others will. That's all I have to say, I guess.

 

 

 

Also, these issues you say effect the world do not effect it as much as you would like to think. The world is becoming considerably more liberal, open, and 'mixed', if you will. In 10 or 20 years, the inevitable will happen. Homosexuals will be considerably more accepted, abortion will be less of an issue. The world's mindset is already moving in a non-discriminatory, more liberal direction, and it's not stopping anytime soon.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

I can't wait until these pointless religious threads from either spectrum are locked.

 

 

 

This thread, as well as the other is doing nothing other than putting a line down the middle of off topic and dividing its users in to categories and labels.

 

 

 

Need proof? Look at the recent off topic threads. Where something that doesn't even involve religion is noted, it's still brought up and the divided users have their 'Christianity' and 'atheist' teams to bag each other out.

 

 

 

Enough of the religious posts already, they shouldn't even be allowed on a forum.

 

 

 

There is no end to the 'discussion' or 'debate' whatever you decide to name it, it's continuous and pointless other than to divide users on this forum and to create grudges within its users.

 

 

 

If you don't like a thread, don't read it. By posting in the thread about why you don't want to read the thread, you are doing the very thing you are complaining about - lowering the quality of the discussion.

[tryto]

Well.. some poeple fail to see the bibel in a historical context. Also many things in the Christian Dogma are just interpretations of the bibel. Did Jesus ever even used the word hell?

 

 

 

I'm not a christian myself, although i was batized as a baby and such things, but imo Jesus is a very interesting figure and he said really good things. He basically invented love in a way.

 

 

 

Just go tell your mom, this love thingy is cool (well.. if you think it is), but you won't buy into all this dogmatic [cabbage]. You make very valid points in your post.

 

 

 

Jesus never mentioned hell, sinners, or even heaven very much. He mostly focused on doing good on earth. (at least in the 4 gospels)

[BlueTear]

Yes there have been some excellent, clean debates on this topic. You are absolutely disregarding, however, the poorer, not so clean debates on this topic. You are also disregarding, the division in off topic between users posts regarding religion, the religious debates on topics that don't even concern religion and the 'religious' teams this post has created perhaps permanently in posts to come, unless a religious post ban is in place.

 

 

 

I understand that you have an ego and it certainly doesn't want to be deflated by finding weak points in the thread you've created. However, you need to wake up and smell the damn roses and get rid of those rose coloured glasses to the threads and posts you create.

 

 

 

I'm not coming back to off topic until these threads are gone; it has turned in to a happy community of people who could have intelligent discussions for the past several years to a divided team of God lovers or God haters.

 

 

 

This is not what off topic should be about and to cut the last slice of cake, I don't wish to be a part of a divided community.

 

 

 

First of all, the reason why religion ends up being brought up in threads not exclusively dedicated to religion is because religion is an important part of people's lives. Whether the discussion is about abortion, internal politics, foregin policies or a law of your choice, there will be people on these forums whose thoughts and opinions can be traced back to a religion. In sharing those thoughts and opinions, in essence a part of themselves, they will share a small part of the religion. Living by example so to speak.

 

 

 

If you have a ban on "religious discussion", you do one of two things; Either you put a gag on the people mentioned above. They're not allowed to participate fully in any debate where their thoughts and opinions can be traced to religion. Or you let them have their say, but no one can actually contest that opinion, because that would classify as a discussion.

 

 

 

Call me silly, but I really fail to see how shutting people up because they disagree with something more consequential than eachother's favourite dish is something worth pursuing for any forum targetted towards people above the age of twelve.

[heartless619]

Cant we all agree to disagree?

[PeaceBoy]

Well I don't know if this will help you understand Christianity more but it helped me understand more.

 

 

 

God vs Science

 

 

 

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

 

 

 

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

 

 

 

"Yes sir," the student says.

 

 

 

"So you believe in God?"

 

 

 

"Absolutely."

 

 

 

"Is God good?"

 

 

 

"Sure! God's good."

 

 

 

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

 

 

 

"Yes."

 

 

 

"Are you good or evil?"

 

 

 

"The Bible says I'm evil."

 

 

 

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

 

 

 

"Yes sir, I would."

 

 

 

"So you're good...!"

 

 

 

"I wouldn't say that."

 

 

 

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

 

 

 

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

 

 

 

The student remains silent.

 

 

 

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

 

 

 

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

 

 

 

"Er...yes," the student says.

 

 

 

"Is Satan good?"

 

 

 

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

 

 

 

"Then where does Satan come from?"

 

 

 

The student falters. "From God"

 

 

 

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

 

 

 

"Yes, sir."

 

 

 

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

 

 

 

"Yes."

 

 

 

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

 

 

 

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

 

 

 

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

 

 

 

"So who created them?"

 

 

 

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

 

 

 

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

 

 

 

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

 

 

 

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

 

 

 

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

 

 

 

"No, sir, I have not."

 

 

 

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

 

 

 

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

 

 

 

"Yet you still believe in him?"

 

 

 

"Yes."

 

 

 

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

 

 

 

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

 

 

 

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

 

 

 

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

 

 

 

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

 

 

 

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

 

 

 

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

 

 

 

"No sir, there isn't."

 

 

 

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

 

 

 

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

 

 

 

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

 

 

 

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

 

 

 

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

 

 

 

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

 

 

 

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

 

 

 

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

 

 

 

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

 

 

 

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

 

 

 

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

 

 

 

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

 

 

 

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

 

 

 

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

 

 

 

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

 

 

 

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

 

 

 

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

 

 

 

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

 

 

 

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

 

 

 

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

 

 

 

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

 

 

 

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

 

 

 

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

 

 

 

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

 

 

 

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

 

 

 

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

 

 

 

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

 

 

 

The professor sat down.

 

 

 

This students statements are true, can you or can you not make night darker?

 

 

 

Is it possible for it to get colder after absolute zero -458 degree's F.

 

 

 

Can you feel,taste,see,hear,or smell your brain,

 

 

 

If you support this students statements than repost.

 

 

 

God in heaven won't mind if you do or don't.

 

 

 

No you won't go to hell.

 

 

 

But your conscience will feel great if you do.

[heartless619]

just another reason why religion is based solely on faith.