My issues with Christianity.

[llamster]

it is the fault of those who did know but were afraid or too lazy to tell them.

 

And the people who did tell them who were supposively spreading the word of "god" managed to kill millions and only make profits for them selves.

 

Take cover! Incoming flames! :shock:

 

I think you misinterpreted it. What i meant to say is "it's our job as christians to tell them about Jesus". I don't see many missionaries killing millions and making profits by the way. :-k

 

 

 

I'm quite sure that Navyplaya was referring to missionaries a long time ago. For example: the Crusaders.

[StrOwez]

 

 

 

(1)Um....I don't what you're getting at about the child being unique. But the second point is actually a hotly debated topic, I really don't understand the concept of predestination myself, but regardless of whether God knows where you are going, there is still a choice you can make.(2) God doesn't influence that choice, which is where free will comes from.

 

 

 

(1)

 

The thing I mean about a child being unique is, every child is different but every child means the same to God - from the biblical point of view.

 

This I challenge as being wrong since, I'm getting a fair shot at life whereas a child born into starvation gets 0 chance of being successful in life, it just isn't fair.

 

(2)

 

God does influence that choice, since he did make me, therefore he planned my life. Yes I know I can make choices during my lifetime, but god knows the ultimate choice, since he is God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you think about it, you do have to cross a line to be punished. In this case, after having a part of Him killed and Man still refusing to accept him, it'd be fair to get a punishment.

I don't have to cross the line to be punished, I don't have to kill anyone. To be punished according to the Bible I can live a perfectly normal life, leave all my money to a charity before I die and still go to be tormented in hell, just because I don't understand the whole concept of Christianity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

THAT is the whole point of the Bible! That God died for his creation, to prove his love to the people he created. Unfortunately, your runescape account isn't very alive. But let's say you do create a sentient robot of some kind, and sacrifice a part of yourself to keep it alive. Wouldn't that signify the greatest love of all? And wouldn't the sentient creation also be aware of how much it is loved?

Well obviously that doesn't prove his love to me, as I see people babies (which he created) being killed for nothing that they have done to deserve.

 

 

 

Funny you should mention robots because that's exactly what religion makes people, think the same, do the same things. Back to your point, if I was ever meant to be God and wanted people to love me I'd just make them love me in their genes ever since they're born.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the folks in the rainforest seem to get unlucky don't they. The Bible doesn't say what happens to people not acquainted with Jesus, but then again, it is the fault of those who did know but were afraid or too lazy to tell them. In any case, these guys and the dead babies go into the category of "Bible doesn't say".

The category 'Bible doesn't say' that's a new one, in fact you can get away with anything by using that phrase. Tbh the bible does say what's going to happen, lets look at what the bible DOES say. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and accept him as their saviour WILL go to hell.

[StrOwez]

Solve your issues with your faith at home. Discuss it with your parents, go to Dr. Phil, etc.

 

 

 

Theirs no reason to start discussing your issues here as it will turn in a war, just like already has happened. I can make tons of threads on " issues with this religion, and that one. " but I dont, because i respect what people believe in.

 

 

 

usually an OF forum is designed to discuss things, and it's not a war its an argument of both sides, just what they do in politics to solve problems.

 

 

 

I respect religion, I just don't understand some aspects of it.

 

 

 

 

 

@Everyone.

 

Please don't make this a flame war, I actually want to keep this topic open, as it may open eyes for few people.

[Rebdragon]

Dude, there are way better reasons to hate Christianity.

[StrOwez]

Dude, there are way better reasons to hate Christianity.

I don't hate it, I just don't understand it.

[baron8000]

So you intend to judge the entire Christian faith by your small experience of probably less than 100 people? Nice one.

 

 

 

And why just Christianity? because its the easy religion to slap down? Ever notice its almost always Christianity that takes the beatings on this forum?

 

 

 

How about you be the better man and let Christians try and spread their message and politely decline? I don't agree with lots of people's life morals and values but I let them get on with it, I certainly don't go and start stating my disagreements on a forum.

 

 

 

And @ navaplaya that was almost 1000 years ago, You'd struggle to find any group or race that doesn't have a bloody past.

[Satenza]

Agnostic/Atheists? :P

[kelem_ryu]

Tbh the bible does say what's going to happen, lets look at what the bible DOES say. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and accept him as their saviour WILL go to hell.

 

 

 

Where does it say that? Can somebody give me a quote or tell me where i have to look?

[baron8000]

Agnostic/Atheists? :P

 

 

 

ooooo quiet you, always ruining my points you are :wink:

 

 

 

you know very well I meant religions/nations lol

[dwarfdude3]

I've got some issues with Christianity too. Mostly with the idea of rejecting intellectualism in favor of believing things without proof. Though I do think everyone should try to be like Jesus. But too often do people get caught up in the ritualistic aspect rather than the aspect of peace and love.

 

 

 

for example, a friend an i have been having a big argument because he claims he 'spoke in tongues'. What a load of crap.

 

 

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bkf7DpnnNck

[navyplaya]

Dude, there are way better reasons to hate Christianity.

I don't hate it, I just don't understand it.

 

 

 

Well then I'll explain it now :lol:

 

 

 

Christianity as in all religions, was invented in order to control the population. To help guide it in the right way. Religion once served this purpose and it got us to where we are today. But now, its useless and is holding us back from society's full potential.

[StrOwez]

(1)So you intend to judge the entire Christian faith by your small experience of probably less than 100 people? Nice one.

 

 

 

(2)And why just Christianity? because its the easy religion to slap down? Ever notice its almost always Christianity that takes the beatings on this forum?

 

 

 

How about you be the better man and let Christians try and spread their message and politely decline?(3) I don't agree with lots of people's life morals and values but I let them get on with it, I certainly don't go and start stating my disagreements on a forum.

 

 

 

And @ navaplaya that was almost 1000 years ago, You'd struggle to find any group or race that doesn't have a bloody past.

 

 

 

(1) No I intend to judge the entire Christian faith on the book they use as basis for their faith

 

 

 

(2)Because I know most about that religion, and can therefore draw better arguments against it.

 

 

 

(3) I'm disagreeing with a religion because it doesn't make sense to me, so I have a right to point out the things I'm disagreeing with and maybe someone will prove me wrong.

[Barihawk]

Agnostic/Atheists? :P

 

 

 

Ya'll are too recent. Given time :P...

[Adventurer]

 

 

 

(1)Um....I don't what you're getting at about the child being unique. But the second point is actually a hotly debated topic, I really don't understand the concept of predestination myself, but regardless of whether God knows where you are going, there is still a choice you can make.(2) God doesn't influence that choice, which is where free will comes from.

 

 

 

(1)

 

The thing I mean about a child being unique is, every child is different but every child means the same to God - from the biblical point of view.

 

This I challenge as being wrong since, I'm getting a fair shot at life whereas a child born into starvation gets 0 chance of being successful in life, it just isn't fair.

 

(2)

 

God does influence that choice, since he did make me, therefore he planned my life. Yes I know I can make choices during my lifetime, but god knows the ultimate choice, since he is God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you think about it, you do have to cross a line to be punished. In this case, after having a part of Him killed and Man still refusing to accept him, it'd be fair to get a punishment.

I don't have to cross the line to be punished, I don't have to kill anyone. To be punished according to the Bible I can live a perfectly normal life, leave all my money to a charity before I die and still go to be tormented in hell, just because I don't understand the whole concept of Christianity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

THAT is the whole point of the Bible! That God died for his creation, to prove his love to the people he created. Unfortunately, your runescape account isn't very alive. But let's say you do create a sentient robot of some kind, and sacrifice a part of yourself to keep it alive. Wouldn't that signify the greatest love of all? And wouldn't the sentient creation also be aware of how much it is loved?

Well obviously that doesn't prove his love to me, as I see people babies (which he created) being killed for nothing that they have done to deserve.

 

 

 

Funny you should mention robots because that's exactly what religion makes people, think the same, do the same things. Back to your point, if I was ever meant to be God and wanted people to love me I'd just make them love me in their genes ever since they're born.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the folks in the rainforest seem to get unlucky don't they. The Bible doesn't say what happens to people not acquainted with Jesus, but then again, it is the fault of those who did know but were afraid or too lazy to tell them. In any case, these guys and the dead babies go into the category of "Bible doesn't say".

The category 'Bible doesn't say' that's a new one, in fact you can get away with anything by using that phrase. Tbh the bible does say what's going to happen, lets look at what the bible DOES say. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and accept him as their saviour WILL go to hell.

 

 

 

1. This is kind of an unknown. From what I've heard on this topic, the child goes to heaven or hell based on how he would have acted if he had lived (God's omnipotent, so he would've known what the kid would've picked)

 

 

 

2. God made you, but he gave you a will. He knows what you will decide, but that doesn't mean that he pushes you to those choices. He just knows what YOU will pick

 

 

 

3. Hmm...sorta. Bible says, "Seek and you will find, etc. etc." If you wanted to look for God and went to look for him, he would reveal himself to you. Understanding of how to walk the Christian walk comes AFTER you accept God as your Lord and master. How else would non-Christians be expected to get to know and follow God?

 

 

 

4. About babies being killed: I don't see what you're looking for here. Miracles for every baby that would be killed otherwise? Man kills the babies with his own sinful will.

 

 

 

5. About the robots: If the thing to love was in their genes, then it wouldn't exactly be a choice. Could you explain more about how religion makes robots?

 

What I see in some of my fellow Christians is that they saw God's love and wanted to get to know him, which led them to live the Christian life.

 

 

 

6. True, that. People without Jesus go to hell. However, those rainforest guys do get chances. Have you ever seen that movie "End of the Spear" or something based on a true story? Those guys got a son of a missionary that they spear'd to lead them to Jesus.

 

 

 

Btw, I respect that you don't understand Christianity. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[Nom]

Funny you should mention robots because that's exactly what religion makes people, think the same, do the same things. Back to your point, if I was ever meant to be God and wanted people to love me I'd just make them love me in their genes ever since they're born.

 

 

 

But that contradicts free will.

 

 

 

And about your question, I stated it in the post. Chastity. Catholicism and most other Christian religions encourage chastity until marraige, as I'm sure you know. And were everyone to adhere to chastity, and to not commit adultery, it would be a competently effective way of combating AIDS, indeed most likely a more effective one than contraception due to the fallibility of artificial birth control.

 

 

 

And I'm not saying that everyone has to do it, but that's what's expected of a Christian. As I said before, other beliefs are not persecuted by the vast majority of Christians anyway.

[StrOwez]

Tbh the bible does say what's going to happen, lets look at what the bible DOES say. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and accept him as their saviour WILL go to hell.

 

 

 

Where does it say that? Can somebody give me a quote or tell me where i have to look?

 

 

 

2 Thessalonians Ch1 V8-9.

[baron8000]

(1)So you intend to judge the entire Christian faith by your small experience of probably less than 100 people? Nice one.

 

 

 

(2)And why just Christianity? because its the easy religion to slap down? Ever notice its almost always Christianity that takes the beatings on this forum?

 

 

 

How about you be the better man and let Christians try and spread their message and politely decline?(3) I don't agree with lots of people's life morals and values but I let them get on with it, I certainly don't go and start stating my disagreements on a forum.

 

 

 

And @ navaplaya that was almost 1000 years ago, You'd struggle to find any group or race that doesn't have a bloody past.

 

 

 

(1) No I intend to judge the entire Christian faith on the book they use as basis for their faith

 

 

 

(2)Because I know most about that religion, and can therefore draw better arguments against it.

 

 

 

(3) I'm disagreeing with a religion because it doesn't make sense to me, so I have a right to point out the things I'm disagreeing with and maybe someone will prove me wrong.

 

 

 

1) And have you read that book? Properly? Or just caught passages out of context and misinterpreted like so many others who decide to attack religion? Have you spent the hours of quiet contemplation that many will have over the book? I severely doubt it. Even if you have you intend to judge the entire of the faith on the text? Despite there being vast differences between the innumerable branches of Christianity, fundamentalists, literalists, those who just try to follow the core messages of love, care and morality. Not everyone will follow the book word for word, you would do well to learn that and not do something as idiotic as making such a huge assumption.

 

 

 

2) So your ignorance of other religions means they are of the hook? Way to choose your battles oh crusader of the light.

 

 

 

3)

I have a right to point out the things I'm disagreeing with

Ok, playing by your rules now. I disagree with the your attitude to your mother - you obviously have problems with religion yet you let your mother continue to be part of it. Any child worth their salt would try to persuade a parent out of something they felt was wrong. Now, feel angry someone questioned the way you lived your life? Probably, THAT is the way Christians feel after a completely unprecedented attack on their way of life - its not fun is it.

 

 

 

BTW don't you dare report or set a mod on the last part of my post - your entire thread is based on the ehem

right to point out the things I'm disagreeing with

so therefore either I must be allowed to make such comments or this thread is equally out of bounds.

[insane]

Hark!, I be a robot.

[navyplaya]

Any child worth their salt would try to persuade a parent out of something they felt was wrong. Now, feel angry someone questioned the way you lived your life? Probably, THAT is the way Christians feel after a completely unprecedented attack on their way of life - its not fun is it.

 

 

 

 

WOW, just wow... this is exactly what he is arguing against, pushing his beliefs on someone else. You really are a christian.

[Ginger_Warrior]

This is turning into a flame war... fast.

[underu2000]

(1)The thing I mean about a child being unique is, every child is different but every child means the same to God - from the biblical point of view.

 

This I challenge as being wrong since, I'm getting a fair shot at life whereas a child born into starvation gets 0 chance of being successful in life, it just isn't fair.

 

(2)God does influence that choice, since he did make me, therefore he planned my life. Yes I know I can make choices during my lifetime, but god knows the ultimate choice, since he is God.

 

I hope I'm not being oblivious, but I still don't get it. Why would God not consider each child unique? I mean, you'd think he would know better than all, being the creator and all.

 

See, the thing is, that you are not having a fair shot at life. You are having a privileged one, not the "basic option". I'm sure your bible studies have told you at least once to be thankful for everything you do have, and not take it for granted. Somewhere along the line your ancestors must have been poor as well, but obtained such luxuries and has passed down to you. As for the child in starvation, he has no such gifts, but still the choice, and the promise of the fourth beatitude: Blessed are ye that hunger now for ye shall be filled. (Luke 6:21). Sure, it may not be comforting to non-believers, but it's something.

 

 

 

I don't have to cross the line to be punished, I don't have to kill anyone. To be punished according to the Bible I can live a perfectly normal life, leave all my money to a charity before I die and still go to be tormented in hell, just because I don't understand the whole concept of Christianity.

 

You don't have to cross a line to be punished? Then when do you get punished, for nothing? The line here is not taking the last chance to redeem yourself, that is in Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Well obviously that doesn't prove his love to me, as I see people babies (which he created) being killed for nothing that they have done to deserve.

 

You see babies being killed for nothing, and you still don't recognize the blessings in your life? And they aren't "being killed", they die of natural causes, like all that of natural disasters and wars. These things cannot be avoided, unless God made miracles for everybody to stay alive. Then it would be a perfect world, and we wouldn't need God.

 

 

 

Funny you should mention robots because that's exactly what religion makes people, think the same, do the same things. Back to your point, if I was ever meant to be God and wanted people to love me I'd just make them love me in their genes ever since they're born.

 

Oh, i walked into that one with the robots didn't I...But it's not a bad thing for people to do the same things, and think alike. Everyone is different, an d their differences show, all religion does is lay down some laws so that you don't do things that disrupt order, much like Hammurabi's the Napoleanic Code. Except on a larger scale.

 

And as for people "automatically loving God", that doesn't cover free will, does it?

 

 

 

The category 'Bible doesn't say' that's a new one, in fact you can get away with anything by using that phrase. Tbh the bible does say what's going to happen, lets look at what the bible DOES say. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and accept him as their saviour WILL go to hell.

 

It's an ancient category. It's what gave rise to ideas like purgatory and limbo (which I'm NOT saying is wrong, just not completely based on the Bible). Logically people don't like having things left in the dark, so they reason logical ideas, what they imagine would be if it was written in the Bible.

 

And you don't go to hell for not believing. You go to hell for hearing and refusing to believe, effectively telling God to beat it. The reason I said what I said is because somethings really aren't mentioned in the bible, like what happens to children and those who never heard of Jesus.

 

 

 

Any child worth their salt would try to persuade a parent out of something they felt was wrong. Now, feel angry someone questioned the way you lived your life? Probably, THAT is the way Christians feel after a completely unprecedented attack on their way of life - its not fun is it.

 

 

 

 

WOW, just wow... this is exactly what he is arguing against, pushing his beliefs on someone else. You really are a christian.

 

And YOU are a worst-case atheist, someone with no regard other religions and for using labels like "oh, you're a christian alright". For your information, he being defensive towards his beliefs, and didn't warrant any reason to make an insult to all Christians.

[WutangFlu]

This is turning into a flame war... fast.

 

 

 

Are you surprised?

 

I'm not.

[kelem_ryu]

Tbh the bible does say what's going to happen, lets look at what the bible DOES say. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and accept him as their saviour WILL go to hell.

 

 

 

Where does it say that? Can somebody give me a quote or tell me where i have to look?

 

 

 

2 Thessalonians Ch1 V8-9.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Ow right.. it's there. I can't argue that. I always try to argue on the terms of the person i argue with. It's hopeless though. There are no arguments to be found on the home ground and arguments from the outside won't be taken into account.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Why would somebody who loves me send me to hell for all eternity? Or doesn't god love me anymore if i don't believe in him?

[nomadmike]

:? I would just like to say that...

 

 

 

What would happen if we one day travel the stars and discover races of intelligible beings. Will we "push" our \way of life on them if they are what native americans were in the 1500-1700's :-s

[dark_blob]

Agnostic/Atheists? :P

 

 

 

Ya'll are too recent. Given time :P...

....otters?? :anxious: