While i actually agree with you, that argument has no foundations, without prostitutes there would be not prostitution, just because their is demand doesn't mean that these men and women HAVE to open their legs/bend over.

 

Where theres a market there will be a product yes, but sometimes the product drives/creates demand and not the other way round.

 

 

 

If that were in any way true then I would be able to make a fortune by gathering up leaves and selling them.

 

 

 

The simple fact is, that unless there is someone willing to buy what you are selling (ie demand)... then you have no sale and no supply. Is it sometimes immoral to fulfil a demand... yes certainly... I don't see methamphetamine manufacturers as being innocent victims forced into a life of illegal drug making to satisfy the incessant demand for meth. But if there weren't people out there looking for a cheap high, then the meth labs would cease to exist.

 

 

 

Were the original Ipod's multimedia devices? Anyway thats not really the point. The point was that Ipod's drove demand for players that could read the MP3 format, there was no demand for them before the Ipod.

 

 

 

a) The demand for personal music players has been around since the 80s.

 

B) The iPod shipped in late 2001... prior to that we saw the release of the MPMan in '97, the RIO in '98 and Compaq's Personal Jukebox in '99.

 

c) It is quite possible for there to be a demand for things well before they are available on the market.

While i actually agree with you, that argument has no foundations, without prostitutes there would be not prostitution, just because their is demand doesn't mean that these men and women HAVE to open their legs/bend over.

 

Where theres a market there will be a product yes, but sometimes the product drives/creates demand and not the other way round.

 

 

 

If that were in any way true then I would be able to make a fortune by gathering up leaves and selling them.

 

 

 

The simple fact is, that unless there is someone willing to buy what you are selling (ie demand)... then you have no sale and no supply. Is it sometimes immoral to fulfil a demand... yes certainly... I don't see methamphetamine manufacturers as being innocent victims forced into a life of illegal drug making to satisfy the incessant demand for meth. But if there weren't people out there looking for a cheap high, then the meth labs would cease to exist.

 

 

 

Were the original Ipod's multimedia devices? Anyway thats not really the point. The point was that Ipod's drove demand for players that could read the MP3 format, there was no demand for them before the Ipod.

 

 

 

a) The demand for personal music players has been around since the 80s.

 

B) The iPod shipped in late 2001... prior to that we saw the release of the MPMan in '97, the RIO in '98 and Compaq's Personal Jukebox in '99.

 

c) It is quite possible for there to be a demand for things well before they are available on the market.

 

 

 

Slightly off-topic but, I-pod didn't yet go to all of the countries.Least 2 years ago. Same with other stuff coming into the US and Canada.The demand make the world go round. Too much demand means more supply hence more people jumping in.That's how yews were infested, hence making more macros in there. If magics were easier to cut, they'll be hit too. If human players were easier to kill, then that too. Same with nats and ess.Gold farmers go there too for money.Some items that were innovative in real life started getting swarmed with cheaper and less-of-quality stuff. That's how people started going in. When China industrialized; people were losing their lands to big time industries.Then they needed money. People Started to set up the gold farmers, even though it is cheap in money, there still is the factor that they are buying food and maybe even houses for that money.

They aren't kidnapped and forced to work as slaves you know....There is a lot of unfairness in China yes, but these people are ex farmers/peoples parents who were farmers, whos farm land has been turned into mines/power plants/luxury housing etc.. and now they live in the cities and get whatever job they can. This migration is natural in an industrialising country but the organization of the 'peoples party' and lack of civil liberties mean that its happening unbelievably quickly and with little thought for a few million people who have to struggle to be able to eat.

 

 

 

Still if people followed the rules and didn't buy gold then there wouldn't be this problem, really the blame is on these people who buy Runescape gold for money and the Chinese 'companies' that violate Jagex's intellectual property(game).

 

 

 

I agree with the above, I worry that most of the RS community believes these people are working in similar conditions to the people who work in clothes sweatshops and things. I think it's far more likely that while the conditions are not outstanding, they are not that bad.

You speak chinese :shock: Nice.

 

On topic: I don't feel sorry for them, they get paid pretty much ($5 is what they get a weak normally :S) So they get paid pretty good, it's still quite sad they ruin the game for other people.

dang, that is some really bad stuff right there. I kinda feel bad for that guy too, saying he doesn't like playing the game, but needs to to make a living, still, its against the rules

Ouch only $23 a month.

Kinda sad to see that he doesn't even like the game, but has to farm to earn a living. :(

You speak chinese :shock: Nice.

 

On topic: I don't feel sorry for them, they get paid pretty much ($5 is what they get a weak normally :S) So they get paid pretty good, it's still quite sad they ruin the game for other people.

 

 

 

No offense meant, but how old are you?

 

 

 

5$a week is NOT money for one to live comfortably on, no matter where you live.

 

 

 

Ok, time to throw my 2 cents in.

 

 

 

No.1: You can feel sympathy or disdain for the gold farmers. No one is asking you to feel either.

 

 

 

You can feel sympathy for the fact that they saw no other way out of poverty than clicking for ours on end and ruining a game for many people (except me).

 

These farmers stopped playing a game after 12 hours. After that, Runescape became a burden. These people, whether Chinese or Philippine or Puerto Rican or Nigerian or whatever nationality they are, are still human and should have the option to live better lives than this.

 

 

 

You can also feel disdain for the fact that they are attacking an economy and a society composed of many honest players that play for enjoyment and fulfillment. The farmers take that away from many players.

 

 

 

No.2: While many of you probably know this, there are some who don't. Although it is true that China boasts the largest amount of farmers, China is NOT the only place on earth inhabited with them. They are all around the world working on various games. I wouldn't be shocked if there were a few farms here in the United States.

 

 

 

No.3: What's with the common misconception of rich american kids ruining this game? How come we Americans are the ones solely targeted for messing things up? The list of countries that runescape is played at is quite long. I don't know why some of you seem to think that we're all spoiled rich boys that don't work for anything, but I assure you that is not true.

I do feel sorry for them. However, does this change my attitude towards how they break our game rules? not much. The blame isn't aimed at them. They have to make a living or else suffer. The blame is mainly at the bosses, who hire them for so cheap, and to the buyers who do just as bad by supporting the black market.

While i actually agree with you, that argument has no foundations, without prostitutes there would be not prostitution, just because their is demand doesn't mean that these men and women HAVE to open their legs/bend over.

 

Where theres a market there will be a product yes, but sometimes the product drives/creates demand and not the other way round.

 

 

 

If that were in any way true then I would be able to make a fortune by gathering up leaves and selling them.

 

 

 

The simple fact is, that unless there is someone willing to buy what you are selling (ie demand)... then you have no sale and no supply. Is it sometimes immoral to fulfil a demand... yes certainly... I don't see methamphetamine manufacturers as being innocent victims forced into a life of illegal drug making to satisfy the incessant demand for meth. But if there weren't people out there looking for a cheap high, then the meth labs would cease to exist.

 

 

 

Were the original Ipod's multimedia devices? Anyway thats not really the point. The point was that Ipod's drove demand for players that could read the MP3 format, there was no demand for them before the Ipod.

 

 

 

a) The demand for personal music players has been around since the 80s.

 

B) The iPod shipped in late 2001... prior to that we saw the release of the MPMan in '97, the RIO in '98 and Compaq's Personal Jukebox in '99.

 

c) It is quite possible for there to be a demand for things well before they are available on the market.

 

 

 

 

 

EAT my point: There were MP3 capable players before the Ipod, there was near to zero demand for them, the Ipod was released with a billion dollar marketing campaign, suddenly there IS demand for ALL MP3 capable devices. It is far too glib to say that demand for personal, portable music devices has been around for ages( mini-disc players were far from successful despite your implied declaration that all personal players were in demand), in fact the very first mass produced PPMD was the Sony Walkman, THERE WAS NO DEMAND, THE SONY WALKMAN WAS A HUGE GAMBLE, the product created demand. As for point c), if you're going to quote me, then read all of what you quote, me:'but sometimes the product drives/creates demand and not the other way round', all i'm saying is SOMETIMES an innovative ("") product can create demand, where there was none, that statement to me doesn't seem to require the response of your point c.

1st)people who are desperate for sex=ALL HUMANS EVER (except for those who are asexual-there are people like this)

 

 

 

2nd) What i was saying is yes people want to have sex or have more items in a game, but they would have no recourse if there wasn't a company/individual willing to meet their demands in exchange for cash. Its a two headed thing, theres demand so there is a product, there is a product so there is demand. I am saying(trying to :) ) that sometimes in certain circumstances if the product wasn't introduced the demand wouldn't exist/would cease to exist. edit:case in point: THE Ipod, before the ipod there were MP3 players, in fact there were mp3 players that were FAR superior to the Ipod, with better batteries, capacity, audio output etc.. but Apple played their hand well and spent BILLIONS marketing the damn thing so everyone (we are all sheeple) thought wow, wth is this new fangled technological marvel? we must buy for extortionate money, and the sales for ALL MP3 players shot up. This is a case of a product creating demand rather than demand creating the product.

 

 

 

Actually iPods are multimedia devices. Not just mp3 players. Thats why they're so expensive. Not just because they hold a ton of songs, or because they have a 160gb hard drive. They should be called mmsdmp3 players. (multimedia storage device mp3 players.)

 

 

 

Were the original Ipod's multimedia devices? Anyway thats not really the point. The point was that Ipod's drove demand for players that could read the MP3 format, there was no demand for them before the Ipod.

 

 

 

Sorry for going off topic there. And yes, the original iPod had games on it, making it more than just another mp3 player. And just the fact the iPods have more memory in them than most computers built 3 years ago is amazing in itself.

 

 

 

But anyway, your point is valid, and the iPod did drive up the price of almost all mp3 players.

Forget the mp3 players guys....Back on topic.

 

 

 

Nobody feels disdain towards the gold farmers themselves, but everybody hates the system. So different people find different reasons to hate it. Some folks point out the buyers, some the farmers themselves.

 

 

 

Problem is, no matter how bad the farmers have it, they are holding the system up. Since they are the biggest pillar here, they are the priority to be removed. True, getting rid of the buyers would solve the problem temporarily, but the farmers would remain and would continue selling these goods to the inevitable next wave of buyers.

 

 

 

So the way I see it, the only way to end goldfarming is eliminating the farmers first. Sure they have it bad, but so do a quite a few billion other people around the world. Goldfarming solves nothing, just serves as a medium for poverty, and ruins the game for us to boot. Verdict? Feel sympathy for them, but don't support them.

Regarding to this thread, I posted this to point out the common misconception people have on China and her people, based on my experience I had when I was still staying in China.

 

 

 

Before that, I would like to give my compliments to the author -- Hydraweapon for being considerate and feel for the unfortunate people who don't have the opportunity to live a deserved life like most of us do. =D>

 

 

 

First of all, poverty happens on all parts of the world, differs only on its seriousness and exent. In China's case, the citizens from all walks of life are living on either side of the two economic extremities, that is, the wealthy or more abled people are living a decent life, while the poor ones have a really sub-standard life, economically speaking. Many people have only seen the poor people living in China, or in other case, Chinese history during the 70's and 80's to which some people's view are still bound, have them concluded that China is a poorly developed country. But if you are aware of what has been happening in recent years, it's not hard to know that the country's growth raised rapidly. Like what Xstarfox33X said, they are having a greater tendency for industrialism rather than being a pure communist, are now more opened to the outside world. And cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Ansan, Fushun and Shenyang have shown that the people's effort to promote economic growth really paid off. It is worth visiting if anyone here has the chance to. Plus they are also able to run the Olympics 2008, producing spectacular buildings like the bird's nest stadium and the really cool-looking stadium for water sports.

 

 

 

I know many people are annoyed by the gold farmers and to be frank, I don't like what they were doing even if it's like what they said, trying to earn a living. But really, not all Chinese RS players are gold farmers, just like not all F2P players are scammers or people with attitude problems. There are still quite a number of decent Chinese players who has chosen to play silent and doesn't use a Romanized Chinese name (name written in han yu pin yin) in the game.

 

 

 

As for the existence of sweatshops, I really haven't found or seen any so far on my stay. The rich people most proabably have no reasons to work in a sweatshop, and most poor people in China either work in factories or involved in agricultural activities; it is unlikely to find sweatshops around. But since I am not sure about that, i'd rather say there is a possibility that they exist. You can tell me more about that and I am always here to listen.

Wow...you know...if there were no money like in "Star Trek"(i'm sorta a Trekky :thumbsup: )we wouldn't have this problem.Anyway...it's everyones fault:it's the buyers fault for creating the demand,it's the honest players and Jagex's fault for not doing something about it sooner,and most of all it's the owners of the goldfarming companies fault's.It is not the fault of the goldfarners for needing money and turning to a more comfortable job.Now the best way to fix this in my opinion is to boycott all websites that have ads for these companies that sell the gold and to report anyone you know to have bought gold.Also there is nothing wrong with reporting a goldfarmer they will just make another account to make more money so just do it in an attempt to help the rs community even if you know it won't help much. :thumbsup:

Wow...you know...if there were no money like in "Star Trek"(i'm sorta a Trekky :thumbsup: )we wouldn't have this problem.Anyway...it's everyones fault:it's the buyers fault for creating the demand,it's the honest players and Jagex's fault for not doing something about it sooner,and most of all it's the owners of the goldfarming companies fault's.It is not the fault of the goldfarners for needing money and turning to a more comfortable job.Now the best way to fix this in my opinion is to boycott all websites that have ads for these companies that sell the gold and to report anyone you know to have bought gold.Also there is nothing wrong with reporting a goldfarmer they will just make another account to make more money so just do it in an attempt to help the rs community even if you know it won't help much. :thumbsup:

If there were no money runescape would suck so hard

lol yeah but i mean in rl

Im chinese, but i live in Singapore. I am a person which enjoys RS and dosent use it to earn money for a living.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that China's economic is growing rapidly, (My chinese teacher kept on aying that) and i believe there is a man who is rumoured to be the next president of Austrailla (or something like that) because he could speak chinese. However if u go to China's suburbs u will find that the condition there is totally different from the big cities. I consider myself very fortunate to be living in Singapore, as my cosin, who live in the suburbs of china, had to attend all sorts of classes lyk tuition, piano classes, dance classes... to ensure a 'good' life when he becomes an adult. I however, dosent need to do anything other than goverment education and dosent need to worry about adult life at all. (Both my cousin and i are 14) This shows that there is a huge number of people in china who dosent have jobs and as a result they are forced to do these low-paying jobs which dosent even give them enough money for themselves to survive.

I feel no sympathy for gold farmers, they ruined the game, and you're sympathising for the rule breakers? seems if some of you were to find a bug that would give you better things in rs you would abuse it.. :shame: