Myanmar

[BlueTear]

Or Burma as some of you might know it as, is a country bordering China and Thailand and is governed by a military dictatorship. If you want exact specifics on how the country is ruled and how it came to be that way, look it up on wikipedia, the article was quite extensive.

 

 

 

A few weeks back the military junta cut subsidies on fuel prices which lead to a shock increase in the fuel prices. The citizenry is not particularly rich and this is a devastating blow to many personal economies. This lead to protests, not in favour of democracy, but against mismanagemant. The distinction is fairly important, since unlike several previous protests the junta sat back and allowed them to continue rather than cracking down. Then they escalated, and the junta did react with violence. On September 5th the junta used force in breaking up a demonstration an injured a few monks in the process. This caused widespread protest among the buddhist monks of the country - and there's a lot of them - and prompted them to participate in several additional demonstration. One thing lead to another, and suddenly thousands of buddhist monks were heading the protests rather than merely participating. On 22nd September they withdrew all religious services for military personnel, and the demonstrations gradually escalated from complaints regarding economic mismanagement to allout demands for a dialogue regarding democracy in the country.

 

 

 

As of the past few days, the juntas responses has grown all the more violent, several protestors have been killed, including a japanese press photographer. The exact death toll is difficult to [wagon] because the junta is attempting to strangle the information flows out of the country so they can deal with the protestors without the world watching. Some say it's ranging in the 100's already. Curfews are in place, and many monasteries are litterally under siege to prevent the monks from leaving and walking the streets. Some were raided, and monks arrested. Despite a temporary attempt to shut off the internet in Myanmar - after the junta realized just how many images were being sent to foreign media - many of the events are still documented and distributed using modern information technology. The UN has dispatched a special envoy, and he has met with Aung San Suu Kyi, a nobel peace price laureate who's spent a fair few years in house arrest in Myanmar, along with representatives of the junta. She continues to urge the people to peaceful, but unrelenting, protests in order to start negotiations for a democratic rule.

 

 

 

There are now also stories circulating of defections throughout the burmese military. And as a Swedish columnist put it "the day the junta dies, is the day the farmboys in the military refuse to open fire on civilians".

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I missed many of the exact events, and took others out of context in order to present an as broad a view as possible of an internal struggle for democracy.

 

 

 

Thoughts, opinions, related news items?

 

 

 

(Yes, this is just an attempt to start a news thread, *without* copy and pasting)

[Satenza]

Both China and Russia has said no to enforcing economic sanctions so yet again things like this happen and go unpunished.

[1_man_army]

Well this is an prime example of the problem with military junta's, they have no idea how to go about the day to day running of a nation but they are very good at keeping power at all costs.

 

 

 

 

 

The most worrying thing with the situation now is that it has become so large and widespread that the Junta has really been backed into a corner by the protesters. From the Junta's perspective the have only two options - allow the protests to continue, thus losing authority within the nation or crush the protests in a similar manner as they did in '88. Unfortunately the latter of the two options seems to have prevailed.

[Echofish]

Burma's current situiation reminds me of a car sticker that said "Be Nice to America or we'll give you democracy" :?

[BlueLancer]

Seriously... The Myanmar military junta government is stupid as a pile of bricks..

 

 

 

"We need to raise even more money to get more ferraris, plasma TV's and rolex watches.. Let's raise petroleum prices by 5x"

 

 

 

What did they think would happen? The people were already poor before this, now they can't even afford going to work since gas costs so much...

 

 

 

Both China and Russia has said no to enforcing economic sanctions so yet again things like this happen and go unpunished.

 

 

 

As you were probably aware already, China and Russia don't exactly have a track record of proper human rights, they couldn't care less if protesters die in Myanmar as long as the junta keeps purchasing chinese weapons and russian aircraft

[assassin_696]

[Lack of] democracy in action

[StrOwez]

Anyone know of any solutions other than sending armed forces in? As I don't think any country has the balls to.. America/UK are too stretched in Iraq/ Afghanistan to do something.. China/Russia don't seem to care that much.

 

 

 

And more sanctions would just harm the innocent people..

[indy500fan]

Both China and Russia has said no to enforcing economic sanctions so yet again things like this happen and go unpunished.

 

 

 

As you were probably aware already, China and Russia don't exactly have a track record of proper human rights, they couldn't care less if protesters die in Myanmar as long as the junta keeps purchasing chinese weapons and russian aircraft

 

 

 

I don't know the economic situation between Myanmar and China/Russia, but isn't it worst for the citizens when there are economic sanctions? They would only be able to buy domestic made goods and that cuts back on a lot of competition.

[Necromagus]

The UN security council won't step in. As always, one of the vetoing members (in this case China) has too big an economical/political stake in the country to step in directly.

 

 

 

The monks in Burma have always had a big political influence, all the way back to the nineteenth century when their protests blocked unpopular tax increases by the king. In Vietnam monks went as far as setting themselves on fire in the fifties to protest the America-backed oppressive dictatorship. The problem is that you simply can't look right when you have monks opposing you. A few months ago China decided to ban unlicensed reincarnations to try to gain control of the higher lamas in Tibet.

[Grim_Jokes]

[Lack of] democracy in action

 

 

 

Oh, please! Like officials in a democratic country don't over-tax us so they can afford Ferraris, plasma TV's or rollexes..

 

 

 

Democracy isn't that great either.

[Necromagus]

I don't know how it is in Canada, but over here the taxes certainly don't pay for Ferraris and other luxury goods for the politicians... salaries are firmly capped compared to management positions in private companies.

[tryto]

Both China and Russia has said no to enforcing economic sanctions so yet again things like this happen and go unpunished.

 

 

 

As you were probably aware already, China and Russia don't exactly have a track record of proper human rights, they couldn't care less if protesters die in Myanmar as long as the junta keeps purchasing chinese weapons and russian aircraft

 

 

 

I don't know the economic situation between Myanmar and China/Russia, but isn't it worst for the citizens when there are economic sanctions? They would only be able to buy domestic made goods and that cuts back on a lot of competition.

 

 

 

Axctually, its probably more the Russian Weapons, ever heard of an AK-47?

 

 

 

^Only at federal lvl, here in Toronto theres a big debate why the politicians are raising taxes, and cutting services a few eeks after voting for a 25% pay increase for themselves.

[yomom1919]

Oh, please! Like officials in a democratic country don't over-tax us so they can afford Ferraris, plasma TV's or rollexes..

 

 

 

Democracy isn't that great either.

 

 

 

The American president is one of the lowest paid leaders in a developed country in the world...

[Grim_Jokes]

Oh, please! Like officials in a democratic country don't over-tax us so they can afford Ferraris, plasma TV's or rollexes..

 

 

 

Democracy isn't that great either.

 

 

 

The American president is one of the lowest paid leaders in a developed country in the world...

 

 

 

So America and Canada are the only ones with a democracy now? Wow.

[indy500fan]

Oh, please! Like officials in a democratic country don't over-tax us so they can afford Ferraris, plasma TV's or rollexes..

 

 

 

Democracy isn't that great either.

 

 

 

The American president is one of the lowest paid leaders in a developed country in the world...

 

 

 

So America and Canada are the only ones with a democracy now? Wow.

 

 

 

He never mentioned Canada. Also you just jumped to conclusions, he was pointing out that not all "democratic" countries leaders tax the citizens into poverty to give themselves fancy cars and big TVs.

 

 

 

It wasn't a good example anyways, still you made an inflammatory reply to something that wasn't inflammatory.

[Grim_Jokes]

Oh, please! Like officials in a democratic country don't over-tax us so they can afford Ferraris, plasma TV's or rollexes..

 

 

 

Democracy isn't that great either.

 

 

 

The American president is one of the lowest paid leaders in a developed country in the world...

 

 

 

So America and Canada are the only ones with a democracy now? Wow.

 

 

 

He never mentioned Canada. Also you just jumped to conclusions, he was pointing out that not all "democratic" countries leaders tax the citizens into poverty to give themselves fancy cars and big TVs.

 

 

 

It wasn't a good example anyways, still you made an inflammatory reply to something that wasn't inflammatory.

 

 

 

Well, someone else mentioned Canada.

 

 

 

But the point is, Democracy isn't the best. Don't fool yoursleves.

[Necromagus]

Let's keep this one on topic, ok? It's not about the merits of democracy, but about the situation in Myanmar/Burma.

[Zonorhc]

Poorly planned dictatorship in action

 

 

 

Fixed.

[BlueTear]

On the other hand, China has a large interested in stability along it's borders, and as was shown with Sudan, a public relations vulnerability the moment people start speaking the words "boycott", "Beijing" and "Olympic's". I read a quote from a high ranking Chinese foreign policy advisor that went, wait, I'll get it; "China hopes all parties concerned in (Burma) show restraint, resume stability through peaceful means as soon as possible, promote domestic reconciliation and achieve democracy and development."

 

 

 

China wishing democracy on another country was something I found a bit funny, but at the same time interesting. The usual "hands off in internal affairs" policy China applies is to get people to leave China's internal affairs the heck alone. But at the same time, they want a stable neighbour so it won't spread into China.

 

 

 

 

 

Last I heard, the protests had essentially been driven of the streets, but the burmese democracy movement is planning a general strike as an alternative means of protest.

[yomom1919]

So America and Canada are the only ones with a democracy now? Wow.

 

 

 

You said us and I assumed you were either American or Canadian or something of the sort [i did not notice your location till now]. Therefore, "us" would include you, and you are not a part of any other democratic country besides your own. So you were referring to your own leaders, and I made a point based on that.

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you recently put your location in your profile? Because I remember searching for it before I made the post.

 

 

 

People these days... don't even realize what they write, do they? :|

 

 

 

But the point is, Democracy isn't the best. Don't fool yoursleves.

 

 

 

Sure, it isn't the best, but it works better than any other form of government to date, in my opinion and in the opinions of many others, which is why so many countries adapted it. So, let me ask you, what is a better form of government to date [as in one that actually exists or existed], in your opinion? Sure, all governments will have some element of corruption. That doesn't make democracy equal to corruption when it exists in fundamentally in all forms of government.