We're closing down Runescape! To...err...stop cheaters!

[Junkieman]

The grand exchange has arrived today, I just read about it on the front page after someone told me. Now, I don't play RS too much anymore, maybe 3-8 months of the year, but I've been around since the RS1 days, as a f2p noob. This rant gets to the point towards the end(money flow/economy/inflation) so bear with it while it goes through the motions.

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm a little suspicious of this Grand Exchange, and the new Staking update, but my point is this;

 

Why is it that every crap decision made justified somehow as if it's related to cheating?

 

First, the shop updates recently, to help stop cheating apparently. Admittedly, I haven't played since then or even bought from a shop, so I haven't seen how it works or affected things, but I still think it's pretty silly(I understand alot of predefined shop prices rose 'to even things out').

 

Now onto Staking, though I never did it, has been absolutely slaughtered with this 3k per 15min limit(i actually thought it was 30k til someone corrected me). Why on earth was it changed like this?

 

There is now a cap to the amount a player can win in the space of 15 minutes in a staked duel, which is set to 3,000 coins. This limit will make it harder for real-world traders to unfairly use the Duel Arena as a covert way of transferring items. Of course, if you want to take part in some high-stakes duelling you now have the duel tournaments instead!

 

Is it just me that thinks this is a stupid idea? Like I said, I don't and never did stake, and I had some qualms with the high money flow in it(people duelling for millions), but even so, I think this is totally stupid as a solution. That's a 12k an hour limit, I could probably make that in 5 minutes elsewhere. Why is it such a stupid limit, why not 100k an hour or so, a reasonable size of money. Not only is it money limited, it's also item limited in the way of the Grand Exchange, any item worth duelling over is worth more than 12k let alone 3k.

 

Now, the Grand Exchange is a nice idea, but I think it's been done in a poor way. Items all have base rates, which vary over time given how they're traded, and can be traded for within 5% of their price. What are the odds of people trading for 5% over the base rate versus 5% under? I reckon most sellers will be selling higher than the base rate to try and get the best deal. As more sales are made above the base rate, the base rate rises, you can see how this could lead to circling out of control.

 

Also, I think rich people do not help at all, I'm sure you all know someone who's plenty rich and will be a ridiculous amount just to get something, much more likely to happen than a poor person paying very little for something. With this, I feel that prices will therefore be pushed even higher on the GE, and in a while everything will just be incredibly expensive(inflation, like a real economy, only no interest being earnt by people).

 

Not only this, but now general stores(where we've all found brilliant bargains sometimes) and other stores with player sold stock, will now have their stock price also tied to the GE. Not only that, but if the GE price is lower than the predefined price, we'll have to pay the more expensive of the two. Why?

 

When buying items from the 'player stock' tab in shops, prices will now be based on whichever is highest: the predefined prices or the Grand Exchange price. This change is necessary because the shops were a way that players could covertly transfer wealth. Selling items into shops or buying from the 'main stock' tab in shops will still be based on our predefined prices, though some shops have had slight changes to the prices that they will buy and sell items at.

 

Now, I thought the staking justification was dodgy, but this is even worse! Honestly, I think this is a totally insignificant line of reasoning, I honestly never ever thought of that as a way of it being done, and I doubt anyone did use it for 'covertly transferring wealth'. So in addition to the problem of prices likely spiralling out of control, and this change, I reckon soon we'll all end up paying more for everything in runescape, and stuff WILL keep on rising and rising and rising.

 

 

 

And you know what? I think it's exactly what Jagex are hoping will happen. I don't think they like their rs economy, and for a long time have tried to try and make things more expensive. I'm no economist(except a gcse) so I won't go into all my ideas unless someone really cares. But tell me, is it just me? Am I some sort of crazy conspiracist, or does anyone else think the same? They want to rape the game's economy(well, so it's harder for us players) and keep using 'cheating' as their justification.

 

 

 

To all those reading, thanks for taking the time!

[Solidus_77]

Prices will not spiral out of control, the stuff at GE that doesn't fit the market price just won't be sold/bought. :roll:

[ecopetition]

I completely agree.

 

 

 

90% of the updates Jagex perform these days have a negative impact on players, but they mask those downsides with an "update".

 

 

 

Because of it, I quit paying for membership in April this year, and I was right to do so - I've now saved money and no longer need to put up with the dreadful updates Jagex continuously puts into action..

 

 

 

Jagex sucks.

[Warrager]

 

Jagex sucks.

 

Go quit then. If you're still playing. If Jagex sucks so bad, why give them money(advertising, membership money)?

 

 

 

On topic, the shop update was helpful, and not so helpful. The staking update was not a good idea...

[ecopetition]

 

Jagex sucks.

 

Go quit then.

 

 

 

Umm yeah I did try to say that when I said "I quit paying for membership."

 

 

 

I have quit Runescape. Thanks (!) .

[Kazel]

 

There is now a cap to the amount a player can win in the space of 15 minutes in a staked duel, which is set to 3,000 coins. This limit will make it harder for real-world traders to unfairly use the Duel Arena as a covert way of transferring items. Of course, if you want to take part in some high-stakes duelling you now have the duel tournaments instead!

 

Is it just me that thinks this is a stupid idea?

 

 

 

You're not alone. I'm not (or should I say, I wasn't) a big staker, but I know how big this effects everybody else. Real-world traders transferring money through te Duel Arena? Can you spell 'P-A-R-A-N-O-I-D'?

[WookieeMania12]

There is a problem with the 3k cap rule. Sure, we all want bots and cheaters gone. However, I wouldn't do it with a 3k cap rule and have a duel tournament that mostly has high lvls winning and killing stakers. Thats pretty much the update I hate the most so far. A lot worse than the new PC.

[lordkrohn1626]

I completely agree.

 

 

 

90% of the updates Jagex perform these days have a negative impact on players, but they mask those downsides with an "update".

 

 

 

Because of it, I quit paying for membership in April this year, and I was right to do so - I've now saved money and no longer need to put up with the dreadful updates Jagex continuously puts into action..

 

 

 

Jagex sucks.

 

 

 

...yet 8 months later you're still replying to a fan site about a game you no longer play, by a company you state you hate.....m'kay :-k

[Junkieman]

Good to know it's not just me then. I get the feeling sometimes like they're starting to want more and more for people to playing the game for longer and longer(which they DO, as it gets them more money), but with prices falling, it's easier for people to get their goals/achieve things/max out etc. I don't think this is the first of those attempts as I said(I feel like cons was designed to drain money out of the economy).

 

I just read another post on here, and there was something pointed out in there that I cannot believe, the fact that jagex have no sort of anti-bot measures for signing up to accounts(verification like a number of sites have where you type letter/number combos etc). Seriously, they're trying to stop bots and they don't even have anything right at the creation process? What's the first thing a banned cheater would do? Create a new account! Absolutely unbelievable.

 

 

 

Prices will not spiral out of control, the stuff at GE that doesn't fit the market price just won't be sold/bought. :roll:

 

Can you be so sure? I can't, I've said my reasoning for why I think they will, but it is just one scenario of a number of possibilities, I haven't analysed it in depth nor am I qualified to. I'm just going to have to wait and see how it goes. What happens if and when, as someone in another thread suggested, they take out individual trading and make it all GE style? How will prices go then?

 

Another qualm I have with the GE, is if it's to facilitate easy trading, wouldn't a good idea to have it so you know who bought/sold the item you've you sold/bought, so then you could find regular buyers/sellers for items? I'd have thought that a good feature to have, but I understand you don't get anything like that at all.

 

 

 

Good to know it's not just me then. I get the feeling sometimes like they're starting to want more and more for people to playing the game for longer and longer(which they DO, as it gets them more money), but with prices falling, it's easier for people to get their goals/achieve things/max out etc. I don't think this is the first of those attempts as I said(I feel like cons was designed to drain money out of the economy).

 

I just read another post on here, and there was something pointed out in there that I cannot believe, the fact that jagex have no sort of anti-bot measures for signing up to accounts(verification like a number of sites have where you type letter/number combos etc). Seriously, they're trying to stop bots and they don't even have anything right at the creation process? What's the first thing a banned cheater would do? Create a new account! Absolutely unbelievable.

 

 

 

Prices will not spiral out of control, the stuff at GE that doesn't fit the market price just won't be sold/bought. :roll:

 

Can you be so sure? I can't, I've said my reasoning for why I think they will, but it is just one scenario of a number of possibilities, I haven't analysed it in depth nor am I qualified to. I'm just going to have to wait and see how it goes. What happens if and when, as someone in another thread suggested, they take out individual trading and make it all GE style? How will prices go then?

 

Another qualm I have with the GE, is if it's to facilitate easy trading, wouldn't a good idea to have it so you know who bought/sold the item you've you sold/bought, so then you could find regular buyers/sellers for items? I'd have thought that a good feature to have, but I understand you don't get anything like that at all.

 

 

 

I completely agree.

 

 

 

90% of the updates Jagex perform these days have a negative impact on players, but they mask those downsides with an "update".

 

 

 

Because of it, I quit paying for membership in April this year, and I was right to do so - I've now saved money and no longer need to put up with the dreadful updates Jagex continuously puts into action..

 

 

 

Jagex sucks.

 

 

 

...yet 8 months later you're still replying to a fan site about a game you no longer play, by a company you state you hate.....m'kay :-k

 

So? Some people like the people, the communities, the discussions, the memories of the game they used to play. One aspect of mmorpgs is their mmo element and their communties that form out of it, you don't have to regularly play the game to be part of them though. I don't really play atm as I said, but I keep up with goings on and stuff, the game was a big part of my days, and I've gotten to know a few people because of it too, who I still talk to despite not playing. Hell, even some of them don't play anymore, and we still talk. There's more to this than 'just a game'. The company thng was irrelevant.

[ugafan_2009]

I completely agree.

 

 

 

90% of the updates Jagex perform these days have a negative impact on players, but they mask those downsides with an "update".

 

 

 

Because of it, I quit paying for membership in April this year, and I was right to do so - I've now saved money and no longer need to put up with the dreadful updates Jagex continuously puts into action..

 

 

 

Jagex sucks.

 

 

 

...yet 8 months later you're still replying to a fan site about a game you no longer play, by a company you state you hate.....m'kay :-k

Yes, it's so unheard of for someone who has quit to read tip.it. :roll:

 

 

 

But I agree totally, they are killing RS. Glad I quit when I did.

[astro_dude]

I agree. Jagex really needs to start worrying about the honest players.

[Junkieman]

I can't believe this, I decided to go in game to actually check something myself, and now I am absolutely convinced of it.

 

When you sell items to a general store, it seems their cutoff price(like 20gp for coifs), like the minimum the store pays you when overstocked, is still exactly the same! How fair is that? Why not tie these prices to the GE as well? Not only that, but the sneaky thing about this is anyone who DOES buy player owned stock from the shops, their money goes right out of the economy, it is in effect destroyed, which will probably lead to a further rise in prices(it isn't flowing around the economy, like if you buy from another player).

 

Now, I only managed to test this with a noob woodcutter using logs/oak logs, but can anyone confirm it for me? I don't have alot of time to reasearch now.

 

Jagex need to sort things out, they've tried to soften the blow with 'anti cheating' claims and announcement of summoning, but I don't think I'll be signing up for members again any time soon.

[Sharane]

Eventually, they'll also remove the 3-item limit on death and would not let you lose anything after death. After all, it's a covert way to transfer wealth and who cares about player killers in the Wilderness which consist of at least 30% of the Runescape population (both free and members) about losing their favourite part of the game?

[The_Stihl]

I reckon most sellers will be selling higher than the base rate to try and get the best deal. As more sales are made above the base rate, the base rate rises, you can see how this could lead to circling out of control.

Mmm... yes and no. If there ever comes a point where the GE rate gets nonsensical, Solidus is right - people will stop using it. We're seeing that right now, actually. The base values out of the gate were all set by Jagex, and while many are on the mark, there are a few that seem.... out there. Prayer potion (3)'s with a mid-market rate of 7.6k is an example - since you can't sell them below ~7.2k each, while players still trade them on the forums in the 6.5k - 7k each range, it may take some time for the G.E. to actually see prayer pot sales. I've got mine at the lowest legit offer, I'll let you know if they sell. :P

 

 

 

First, the shop updates recently, to help stop cheating apparently.

Haha. No, the "first" was probably fatigue. I still hear the odd person complain about it, and it's long gone to anyone who doesn't still have an active RSC account. Hell, it could be long gone to them too, for all I know.

 

 

 

This kind of BS is a pretty standard Jagex tactic, from my perspective. They claimed the pure ess update was there to deter macroing... and the next day, not only were there essence macroes mining away, but there were loads of people talking on the TIF about how nonsensical a solution it was. Heck, the only net result regarding cheaters was that the odd macroer signed up for membership so his bot account could mine the more valuable pure essence. Backwards much? Not that they'd bother to undo the change...

 

 

 

I'm guessing it's PR/propaganda. If they can't beat the cheaters, they can at least release a few band-aid solutions and claim the cheaters are beat. Either that, or Andrew has finally gone cuckoo for cocoa-puffs, which I've been anticipating for some time.

[Junkieman]

First, the shop updates recently, to help stop cheating apparently.

Haha. No, the "first" was probably fatigue. I still hear the odd person complain about it, and it's long gone to anyone who doesn't still have an active RSC account. Hell, it could be long gone to them too, for all I know.

 

 

 

This kind of BS is a pretty standard Jagex tactic, from my perspective. They claimed the pure ess update was there to deter macroing... and the next day, not only were there essence macroes mining away, but there were loads of people talking on the TIF about how nonsensical a solution it was. Heck, the only net result regarding cheaters was that the odd macroer signed up for membership so his bot account could mine the more valuable pure essence. Backwards much? Not that they'd bother to undo the change...

 

 

 

I'm guessing it's PR/propaganda. If they can't beat the cheaters, they can at least release a few band-aid solutions and claim the cheaters are beat. Either that, or Andrew has finally gone cuckoo for cocoa-puffs, which I've been anticipating for some time.

 

Well the thing I mentioned before about general stores is totally unbelieveable IMO, if I had members I'd post on the forums. If this update is to our benefit, the price the store will pay should be relative to the price we can buy it for from them, i.e 2/3s of the minimum price.

 

I remember when fatigue was introduced, it was rather annoying, but it DID actually seem like a sensible idea to solve the problem of botters, plus back then 'power' training was easier cos stuff would drop if it didn't fit in your inv. It was annoying cos you had to find a bed, but then sleeping bags solved that when they were finally released.

 

The essence change was a stupid update, I think again they didn't like the relative profits made by people(30 per ess, nat sells for 300, you've just 'made' 270gp out of nowhere). However, if the pure ess costs 100, you're only 'making' 200gp. It WAS stupid, and it DIDN'T solve the problem at all, but what did they care? They got some extra subscriptions, which is what they're really aiming to do all the while, they're out to get our money.

[thered]

i completely agree i think the grand exchange is a waste of time :shame:

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

[twistedlife]

guys if you don't like what jagax has been doing lately well... TELL THEM by joining my boycott of runescape dec. 15 you can go to my thread and support there. we can fix RS, we can save it!

[purfishx]

 

 

 

Scary until I noticed the RShumor logo.

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

Yeah, I deleted the original pic, so I had to get the one I uploaded to rshumor :(

[fedex340]

First i want to say how your title is 10000000 times better then "Jadex is killing us, Jadex destroyed RS, etc." Secondly, you at least explain in a reasonable manner how Jadex is "destroying" RS.

 

 

 

Finally, Jadex is trying to help us (unless you use autoers to make cash, and if you used to Duel too.) These updates don't exactly effect me as it has effected other people, so i don't have as strong of an opinion as others. I'm just glad to see a decent argument.

[purfishx]

Omfg guy, it's Jagex!

[Junkieman]

Yeah, what he said.

 

 

 

Well, I'm quite shocked by today's update. I guess it's not closing it down, but this'll seriously piss off half the players, if not more. Personally, I'm not planning on playing again on my main any time soon given this. Why? Mainly cos of the trading thing. They say we aren't forced to use the GE, yes we are now, the reason you wouldn't use the GE? Cos of the prices, now we're tied to them regardless, even more strictly in person to person trades(3k limit, should be a % limit IMO). Also, it means all sorts of other things ruined.

 

- Drop Parties.

 

- As above, but giving prizes out for special events and stuff.

 

- This impacts clan events, ideas, competitons, fansites, etc etc

 

- Activities that involve unnoting were already ruined by the GE/shop price unbalance.

 

- Law running.

 

- Nature running.

 

- Possibly air running.

 

- Mainly, forms of running for people(ores)

 

- Going as a group after some sort of prey, and wanting to split things evenly/selectively between parties involved. I know there's lootshare, but it's not very good.

 

- PKing, obv.

 

- Wilderness is actually now more dangerous, as revenants are more common, and on every world. PKers could be avoided by non-pkers. Or if you're lucky they wouldn't be there.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Reading through a thread regarded unbalanced trades BEFORE they were announced, one guy speculates that Jagex are fixing GE prices behind the scenes. I've suspected this a possibility of the GE, but we'd never be able to tell or know, but if they can control their prices, they control their economy. It's the last post on this page.

 

http://forum.[Please Use QuickFind Code].ws?15 ... 8,goto,119

 

Also, he points out on the next page or so;

 

EDIT: lol just saw this one... green d'hide chaps have a min price of 2535 and an average market price of 2535. They're the same! Free markets ftl!!!

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

Ruined? Sure RuneScape has gone to the dogs recently, but that's nothing compared to what happened to RSC.

 

The game got left in the dust because of RWTers, for god's sakes! Be glad Jagex didn't shut down RS2 for the same reason.

[Rock Hard]

Omfg guy, it's Jagex!

 

 

 

That depends on who you talk to.

 

 

 

Ask Raichase... ^.^