fastortoise Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (SCIENCE) Science isn't the opposite of god. Science would be the opposite of religion. Saying that evolution starts with science doesn't really make much sense, since science is just our understanding of what is already out there in the universe. Whatever did start evolution would already be out there, if we understood it or not. But we do understand it. It's called the carbon atom. The carbon atom has nothing to do with evolution - the process could work just as well if we were all silicone-based life forms. The first 'life-form' was probably an RNA molecule, since it can both perform metabolic functions and replicate, two crucial parts of living (even though it is made primarily of carbon atoms). Saying the carbon atom is responsible for the origin of life is a bit.. not well thought through to put it nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (SCIENCE) Science isn't the opposite of god. Science would be the opposite of religion. Saying that evolution starts with science doesn't really make much sense, since science is just our understanding of what is already out there in the universe. Whatever did start evolution would already be out there, if we understood it or not. But we do understand it. It's called the carbon atom. The carbon atom has nothing to do with evolution - the process could work just as well if we were all silicone-based life forms. The first 'life-form' was probably an RNA molecule, since it can both perform metabolic functions and replicate, two crucial parts of living (even though it is made primarily of carbon atoms). Saying the carbon atom is responsible for the origin of life is a bit.. not well thought through to put it nicely. It's not that stupid. I think what he was trying to say is that the properties of the carbon atom are a necessary prerequisite for life as we know it. The number of bonds it forms with other atoms and it's electronegativity compared to that of oxygen and hydrogen are two key properties that make life what it is - these properties pretty much single handedly dictate molecular shape and polarity (and therefore molecular interactions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlperBacon3 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Thanks to ~Hiimben~ for the Awesome sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Generally speaking atheists don't believe anything happens when you die. For example, if a relative of mine died, I don't believe I'll be seeing them again. As far as we know your body decomposes and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Why did you compare atheists to scientologists? There are plenty of interesting theories on the afterlife; a few which are quite better then the christian model in my opinion. How can you consider hell to exist? Why would someone face eternal damnation for a finite amount of evil acts? Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Why did you compare atheists to scientologists? There are plenty of interesting theories on the afterlife; a few which are quite better then the christian model in my opinion. How can you consider hell to exist? Why would someone face eternal damnation for a finite amount of evil acts? Eternal suffering is a pretty big incentive not to be bad, isn't it? Just as eternal happiness is a good incentive to be a good person. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Why did you compare atheists to scientologists? There are plenty of interesting theories on the afterlife; a few which are quite better then the christian model in my opinion. How can you consider hell to exist? Why would someone face eternal damnation for a finite amount of evil acts? Eternal suffering is a pretty big incentive not to be bad, isn't it? Just as eternal happiness is a good incentive to be a good person. That sounds nice initially, but would you suggest we execute shoplifters? Logically extending it, your saying infinite punishment is appropriate for a finite crime. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meol Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Fear of punishment or the expectance of an eternal reward should not be the main reason people act morally. Morals without religion are much more pure and less egoistic. Empathy, respect for others and a feeling of community should keep you away from rape and murder, not fear and greed. This signature is intentionally left blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 [hide=]OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Why did you compare atheists to scientologists? There are plenty of interesting theories on the afterlife; a few which are quite better then the christian model in my opinion. How can you consider hell to exist? Why would someone face eternal damnation for a finite amount of evil acts? Eternal suffering is a pretty big incentive not to be bad, isn't it? Just as eternal happiness is a good incentive to be a good person.[/hide] That sounds nice initially, but would you suggest we execute shoplifters? Logically extending it, your saying infinite punishment is appropriate for a finite crime. In my opinion, I seriously doubt that a one time shoplifter will be condemned to hell and suffer for eternity. In contrast, I do believe a convicted serial killer can make up for his mistakes, however large they may be, and not be condemned to hell. Here is the reasoning that leads me to believe in a God: Using science, we know of the Law of Conservation of Matter. Pretty much, something can not come from nothing, and something can not turn into nothing. Therefore, something must have come from something. If there were no superbeing of the type, where could this something we call the universe have come from? Personally, I do believe there is evil. Ever seen The Excorcist. :ohnoes: For yang there is a yin, for evil there is divinity. Either someone can be damned to hell for eternity or not, the possibility of some people being forgiven isnt what Im talking about. You either have to accept that hell is an illogical construct or admit that your god punishes people forever for an amount of crimes that were less then infinite in their scope. As to the Conservation of Matter piece a. infinite series of big bangs and big crunches b. then where did god come from? c. you cant use science to justify the existence of a being who is inherently excluded from observation. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 [hide=]OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Why did you compare atheists to scientologists? There are plenty of interesting theories on the afterlife; a few which are quite better then the christian model in my opinion. How can you consider hell to exist? Why would someone face eternal damnation for a finite amount of evil acts? Eternal suffering is a pretty big incentive not to be bad, isn't it? Just as eternal happiness is a good incentive to be a good person.[/hide] That sounds nice initially, but would you suggest we execute shoplifters? Logically extending it, your saying infinite punishment is appropriate for a finite crime. I'm giving an explanation to it. That's where I thought the concepts of heaven and hell originated. My personal belief is that redemption is better than punishment, actually... I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 [hide=][hide=]OK... NO one knows what happends when we die, know one can say that they are more sure than the other. I am a Catholic Christian so I BELIEVE I am going to Heaven. I don't know it but I believe it. What I don't get it what scientoligists and athiests believe in when they die? Can someone answer me? What do you think if a relative passes by? I think when someone dies I will see them healthy, and clean in Heaven. Why did you compare atheists to scientologists? There are plenty of interesting theories on the afterlife; a few which are quite better then the christian model in my opinion. How can you consider hell to exist? Why would someone face eternal damnation for a finite amount of evil acts? Eternal suffering is a pretty big incentive not to be bad, isn't it? Just as eternal happiness is a good incentive to be a good person.[/hide] That sounds nice initially, but would you suggest we execute shoplifters? Logically extending it, your saying infinite punishment is appropriate for a finite crime. In my opinion, I seriously doubt that a one time shoplifter will be condemned to hell and suffer for eternity. In contrast, I do believe a convicted serial killer can make up for his mistakes, however large they may be, and not be condemned to hell. Here is the reasoning that leads me to believe in a God: Using science, we know of the Law of Conservation of Matter. Pretty much, something can not come from nothing, and something can not turn into nothing. Therefore, something must have come from something. If there were no superbeing of the type, where could this something we call the universe have come from? Personally, I do believe there is evil. Ever seen The Excorcist. :ohnoes: For yang there is a yin, for evil there is divinity. Either someone can be damned to hell for eternity or not, the possibility of some people being forgiven isnt what Im talking about. You either have to accept that hell is an illogical construct or admit that your god punishes people forever for an amount of crimes that were less then infinite in their scope. As to the Conservation of Matter piece a. infinite series of big bangs and big crunches b. then where did god come from? c. you cant use science to justify the existence of a being who is inherently excluded from observation. A. Infinite series of big bangs and big crunches arising from where? B. God is God. He is infinite. He has always existed. This is what makes him divine and well, God. C. Jesus was real, the son of God for Christians. What he did, had we been around back then, could be observed by modern science.[/hide] a.Infinitely regressing through time backwards forever; never being created or destroyed simply existing through an infinite amount of universes b. so the universe has to have arisen from somewhere but your god has always existed? c. so your proof of god is that 2000 years ago people believed someone was his son? For the record, yes I am using the cliched argument about who created god. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Perhaps a God then would be something from elsewhere that created the universe we're in, if you want to go into multiple universes... :lol: I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlperBacon3 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 To all those jerks that are saying you go to hell because you shoplift, do some research on Christian religions. If someone shoplifts it doesnt mean they will got to hell. Hell is and extreme place that people that know God and turn away from him completely may go to hell. Even athiests that believe in what they believe in but do some sort of good acts in their life and make the right choices i believe that they may go to Heaven. And no body can tell me i am wrong and I cant tell anybody they are wrong about where we go when we die. Say you say you hate God and mean it, do evil doings all the time ( murder, certain forms of adultary, stealing in drastic measures, and homicides or suicides) I hate the thought of abortion (choice mad by others not by being) I don't really care about capital punishment b/c it is a form of coming. ( the murderer knows what he did) Thanks to ~Hiimben~ for the Awesome sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Either someone can be damned to hell for eternity or not, the possibility of some people being forgiven isnt what Im talking about. You either have to accept that hell is an illogical construct or admit that your god punishes people forever for an amount of crimes that were less then infinite in their scope. As to the Conservation of Matter piece a. infinite series of big bangs and big crunches b. then where did god come from? c. you cant use science to justify the existence of a being who is inherently excluded from observation. A. Infinite series of big bangs and big crunches arising from where? B. God is God. He is infinite. He has always existed. This is what makes him divine and well, God. C. Jesus was real, the son of God for Christians. What he did, had we been around back then, could be observed by modern science. a.Infinitely regressing through time backwards forever; never being created or destroyed simply existing through an infinite amount of universes b. so the universe has to have arisen from somewhere but your god has always existed? c. so your proof of god is that 2000 years ago people believed someone was his son? For the record, yes I am using the cliched argument about who created god. So you are saying time has no start and no end. Thus, stating that matter, the universe, etc. has always existed. What is so farfetched in saying that God, a supreme being, has always existed. ;) As for the proof. Technically, you are correct. There is no concrete proof that God himself, or any other god for that matter, existed, exists, or will exist. It is called faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlperBacon3 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size] Thanks to ~Hiimben~ for the Awesome sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size] So we are supposed to believe blindly based on fear? I won't let fear run my life and without that I see no reason to believe in god. Proving I had no faith in the first place. Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size] So we are supposed to believe blindly based on fear? I won't let fear run my life and without that I see no reason to believe in god. Proving I had no faith in the first place. No way should anyone live in fear. Live in knowing that your faith will grant you eternal happiness in you relationship with the Holy One. You can't believe in something and only look at one side of it. If I do something good it's because I know people have the same feelings I have, they feel pain, they experience joy, etc. I don't do it for some reward. I was never one to follow someone who didn't have the same beliefs as me. And I guess that would be god. :lol: Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size] So we are supposed to believe blindly based on fear? I won't let fear run my life and without that I see no reason to believe in god. Proving I had no faith in the first place. No way should anyone live in fear. Live in knowing that your faith will grant you eternal happiness in you relationship with the Holy One. You can't believe in something and only look at one side of it. If I do something good it's because I know people have the same feelings I have, they feel pain, they experience joy, etc. I don't do it for some reward. I was never one to follow someone who didn't have the same beliefs as me. And I guess that would be god. :lol: Which is actually better than being good for the sake of a reward. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlperBacon3 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size] So we are supposed to believe blindly based on fear? I won't let fear run my life and without that I see no reason to believe in god. Proving I had no faith in the first place. No way should anyone live in fear. Live in knowing that your faith will grant you eternal happiness in you relationship with the Holy One. You can't believe in something and only look at one side of it. If I do something good it's because I know people have the same feelings I have, they feel pain, they experience joy, etc. I don't do it for some reward. I was never one to follow someone who didn't have the same beliefs as me. And I guess that would be god. :lol: Know that people have feelings and actually doing good, is what will get you to Heaven (doesn't matter your religion). I would hope you wouldn't try to make others lives miserable. Thanks to ~Hiimben~ for the Awesome sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlperBacon3 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size] So we are supposed to believe blindly based on fear? I won't let fear run my life and without that I see no reason to believe in god. Proving I had no faith in the first place. I don't know where you got fear from. Is God going to smite you ( runescape pun). Hell is always a fear but why be afraid if you are a good person. Thanks to ~Hiimben~ for the Awesome sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Rien Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 To all those jerks that are saying you go to hell because you shoplift, do some research on Christian religions. If someone shoplifts it doesnt mean they will got to hell. Hell is and extreme place that people that know God and turn away from him completely may go to hell. Even athiests that believe in what they believe in but do some sort of good acts in their life and make the right choices i believe that they may go to Heaven.Not according to your Holy Bible; if you'd like I can find the passages which support this. Essentially, in Christian beliefs, all unrepentant sinners are cast into Hell, so yes, even shoplifters will be eternally punished if they do not "accept Christ." I'll also have you know that the followers of any other religion aside from Christianity (perhaps, with the debatable exceptions of Judaism and Islam) are to be condemned to Hell as well under the same pretense. OK, you may or may not study the Bible and believe in a Jewish or Christian way. So I have knowledge to this. If i got to a gas station and steal 100$ of gas and run i may not go to hell. If i do this regulary saying i dont care, nothings gunna happen turning to all evil, and accepting it you may go to hell. Hell is the source of all Evil. All mistakes we made in life will be resolved in pergatory. We think of it as cleaning our concious will God, or Jesus, OR the Holy Spirit. (whom we believe are all one person ( God this is known as the Holy Trinity)[/size]To be honest, I don't understand what you're talking about. 'Mind explaining where you're going with this? Additionally, here's a question I'd like for you to answer concerning Purgatory/Limbo (I'd like to test your knowledge, since, frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about): Are stillborn infants accepted into Heaven? Interested in helping the Tip.It Crew? Check out our Website Updates & Corrections Board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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