Is God real post your thoughts!

[mmmcannibalism]

however, our logic system is being constantly adapted to suit what has been observed; until we have empirical reason to believe that things can exist outside observed universal laws it is less logical to believe in such things then to not believe in them.

 

 

 

I interpreted that two different ways:

 

 

 

1. You are either saying that we shouldn't believe things that are impossible for us to see until we see them, which is a contradiction.

 

 

 

2. Or you are saying it is the "less logical" choice because logic (in our terms) can only be defined as what we can possibly know. So yes, by the definition of logic, you would be correct. It is "less logical" to believe something outside the bounds of logic, but this isn't to say it cannot exist.

 

 

 

Heh, this is interesting. :P

 

 

 

yeah I was addressing the second one; in some sense of irony it would be completely illogical to dismiss the possibility for something to exist outside of what is observably logical.

[D Jay99]

It is "nonexistent" in the realm of humans, but it still exists. Something does not have to be proven in order to exist. The earth has always been round, even when we thought it was flat. It did not suddenly change from flat to round one day.

 

So, by saying that, do you agree that it doesn't affect us in the human realm in any way? We can't hear/see it, etcetera. The only way it can affect us is changing the way people behave, and that isn't even because it exists, but because humans believe it exists.

 

 

 

If you agree with that, there is another question. Is the way people behave when they believe in God 'better' than the way people who don't believe in God?

[Zierro]

So, by saying that, do you agree that it doesn't affect us in the human realm in any way? We can't hear/see it, etcetera. The only way it can affect us is changing the way people behave, and that isn't even because it exists, but because humans believe it exists.

 

 

 

It does affect us, but we just don't know about it. For example, because the earth is round instead of flat, we experience seasons. We've experienced seasons even when it was thought to be flat. Something can have an affect on you whether you believe it or not.

 

 

 

If you're specifically talking about logic, it works a little differently but it has a close relation. The existence of a supreme logic (god's logic) would render our thought process very flawed and limited in comparison. We wouldn't know, but it would still be true.

 

 

 

If you agree with that, there is another question. Is the way people behave when they believe in God 'better' than the way people who don't believe in God?

 

 

 

There might be a small correlation but there are many bad Christians and many good atheists. Something I never understood was how gangsters of all people wear things like crosses, yet they engage in so much immoral activity.

[mmmcannibalism]

There might be a small correlation but there are many bad Christians and many good atheists. Something I never understood was how gangsters of all people wear things like crosses, yet they engage in so much immoral activity.

 

 

 

desire for justification/the icon status of the cross

[KnightLite]

Let this f*cking topic die. Nobody is going to convince somebody else that their beliefs are wrong.

[Zierro]

Let this f*cking topic die. Nobody is going to convince somebody else that their beliefs are wrong.

 

 

 

Then get off the forums altogether. What's the point in trying to convince people to let this topic die?

[Housepig]

Let this f*cking topic die. Nobody is going to convince somebody else that their beliefs are wrong.

 

 

 

Maybe not, but debate can only be beneficial. I don't think anyone really expects anyone else here to just say, "Ok, you're right: God does/doesn't exist." But not discussing things like this just breeds ignorance.

 

 

 

Personaly, I change my beliefs all the time, so I don't see why no one else could ever change them--in fact, I'd welcome someone trying.

[Zierro]

Personaly, I change my beliefs all the time, so I don't see why no one else could ever change them--in fact, I'd welcome someone trying.

 

 

 

Ha, you're describing me right there as well. I think about god's existence on a daily basis - it's just something that interests me, probably because it is something we will never know. There are good theist, atheist, and agnostic arguments out there but I guess I would be, like Reb likes to call it, a fair-weather-theist. If life's good, it makes it much easier to believe in god. When it's bad, it's harder. I do have to say that I have a much less pessimistic outlook on the world as a theist though.

[Lenticular_J]

Yeah, I've probably settled comfortably as a deist. But I contemplate all the time. I don't think there's a single person who doesn't - a lot of people (namely the upper-class white kids that surround me) just stay stuck in their beliefs because they're afraid of change. It bugs me how they all have such similar beliefs and think you're terrible if you don't. I got so mad when these kids were telling my friend that this girl who killed herself would be going to hell because of it. Then they told me they've never even read the Bible because it's too long. Seriously, being brainwashed for your ideas? Not cool.

 

 

 

Bah, they'll end up the losers in the end, though. They'll try to surround themselves with the same people all they can, go to college, join a fraternity with the same scared rich kids, and then when they're in the real world, realize what a [bleep] they've been. Hopefully, I mean. Some of them might end up on the "stupidest republican christian [wagon] jerk wife beater clearly redneck worse than us" mockumentaries on HBO all the time.

 

 

 

Yeah.

[k00ldud95]

I do believe in a creator, and although it may seem ridiculous to take something entirely on faith, with no proof, the bible actually says that Christians mush expect to be mocked for their beliefs, because they would seem to many to be ridiculous.

 

 

 

I never attend church. I can't remember most of the bible, and I could not understand half of it when I read it anyway. To me though, religion seems to have some kind of moral significance or something. I consider it to be important.

 

 

 

I would equate my feeling of not going to church with not spending enough time with my family. I know I should do it, but I choose not to because I can't stand it.

[Jaffy1]

If god were real, the world would be a better place.

 

 

 

If god were real, it would be male nor female.

 

 

 

If god were real, why do holy books contain inconsistencies?

 

 

 

If god were real, then why on earth would we, humans, be his/her/its children and other humanoids not?

 

 

 

If god were real, everyone would go to hell, because if you're not Christian you go to hell for not being Christian, if you're not Jewish you go to hell for not being Jewish, if you're not islamic you'll go to hell for not being muslim, but you cannot be all, and even if you tried to, you'd go to hell anyway for not believing in "the one true god".

 

 

 

If god were real, why did he/she/it only show him/her/it-self to people millenia ago, which by the way was a time in which people saw magic and other nonsense as truth too?

 

 

 

If you ask me, the only god that exists is the thought of it in people's minds. I believe the intentions of creating religion might have been meant well, but it continues to be an excuse for people to slaughter innocents (hence jihad for example).

 

 

 

The principle of a higher being gives people mental support, and it is logical people would believe in such a thing, since sorry guys, we're mortal and people just don't like the idea of being gone after they die.

 

 

 

So the best thing you can do is just enjoy life and hope you bet on the right horse, hehe. ^^

[mmmcannibalism]

[hide=]

If god were real, the world would be a better place.

 

 

 

If god were real, it would be male nor female.

 

 

 

If god were real, why do holy books contain inconsistencies?

 

 

 

If god were real, then why on earth would we, humans, be his/her/its children and other humanoids not?

 

 

 

If god were real, everyone would go to hell, because if you're not Christian you go to hell for not being Christian, if you're not Jewish you go to hell for not being Jewish, if you're not islamic you'll go to hell for not being muslim, but you cannot be all, and even if you tried to, you'd go to hell anyway for not believing in "the one true god".

 

 

 

If god were real, why did he/she/it only show him/her/it-self to people millenia ago, which by the way was a time in which people saw magic and other nonsense as truth too?

 

 

 

If you ask me, the only god that exists is the thought of it in people's minds. I believe the intentions of creating religion might have been meant well, but it continues to be an excuse for people to slaughter innocents (hence jihad for example).

 

 

 

The principle of a higher being gives people mental support, and it is logical people would believe in such a thing, since sorry guys, we're mortal and people just don't like the idea of being gone after they die.

 

 

 

So the best thing you can do is just enjoy life and hope you bet on the right horse, hehe. ^^

[/hide]

 

 

 

a. that should read neither male nore female; and since the thread doesnt say does abraham's god exist its not binding

 

 

 

b. Because the existing religions were all made by humans and not directly by any possible gods

 

 

 

c. Thats a specific religious belief, has no bearing on the existence of god.

 

 

 

d. This has quite a few logical flaws. First, your simultaneously assuming that every religion's god sends non believers to hell, every religion's god exists, and only one religion's god will actually pass judgement. Finally, its again making the assumption that the "correct" religion exists and is a monotheistic judgemental god

 

 

 

e. While I could go down a list of scenarios that show why god might have done that; your again assuming a specific religious belief. Secondly, people still believe in quite a few ridiculous things.

 

 

 

f. To the first part it's possible, to the second part unfortuneatly true.

 

 

 

g. Indeed

[Zierro]

If god were real, the world would be a better place.

 

 

 

You can always say that. I already think the world is as good as it can be. By this I mean all the negative aspects of the world are necessary. For example, you might not be too fond of death but that's only because you're looking at the dark side of it. There is a good side to death - it prevents overpopulation, it ensures perpetuate changes in society, bad people will not have to be dealt with forever, it makes us appreciate loved ones more than we'd appreciate them if your relationship with them was permanent.

 

 

 

Also, if everything was already what you consider perfect then where would that leave us? We'd have nothing to overcome and no challenges to face - and these are actually the things that bring the best out of people. We would have no room to progress. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

 

 

 

If god were real, it would be male nor female.

 

 

 

This I agree with. In religious texts such as the Bible, I think they just personify god. I think of god as a force like mother nature instead of an actual being. Although I do usually say "him" or "he" for convenience.

 

 

 

If god were real, why do holy books contain inconsistencies?

 

 

 

They were written by man. This is one of the reasons I dislike religion. You see the mistakes that religions make and it completely eradicates their credibility, so naturally you're not gonna believe anything they say, especially how god exists. Religion is supposed to bring you closer to god but I say it does the opposite. It puts a wall in between you and god. Your relationship with god should be personal, not a social thing - that only sprouts the "Holier Than Thou" mentality. Also, everyone has different opinions on everything so their opinions about god are going to differ no matter what. Religion doesn't allow that kind of flexibility. It's basically a rulebook telling you how to worship god. I decided to throw that book away and do things my own way.

 

 

 

If you ask me, the only god that exists is the thought of it in people's minds. I believe the intentions of creating religion might have been meant well, but it continues to be an excuse for people to slaughter innocents (hence jihad for example).

 

 

 

I've thought about this before and it vexes me. If god only exists in our minds then doesn't he still exist? It's like morality. There isn't a location in the universe where morality exists - it's an idea that exists in our minds, but you don't hear us saying that morality doesn't exist. Maybe Plato was onto something. :P

 

 

 

The principle of a higher being gives people mental support, and it is logical people would believe in such a thing, since sorry guys, we're mortal and people just don't like the idea of being gone after they die.

 

 

 

The principle that you are the highest form of being in the universe sounds like mental support to me too though.

[#Free]

god is aight

[RichieMcD]

Let this f*cking topic die. Nobody is going to convince somebody else that their beliefs are wrong.

 

 

 

This is one of the only Topics on the entire forum where somewhat intelligent arguments are posted by the general posters on it, we need more threads on this forum with actual intelligent debate than spamish 4chan [cabbage] and news articles.

[Dizzle229]

It's a good topic, in the sense that it's an important question with a pretty balanced argument and number of supporters on each side. But after 200+ pages, I think we're just beating a dead horse. Everything that can be said on the matter has been said over and over again.

[RichieMcD]

It's a good topic, in the sense that it's an important question with a pretty balanced argument and number of supporters on each side. But after 200+ pages, I think we're just beating a dead horse. Everything that can be said on the matter has been said over and over again.

 

 

 

Create a debate where intelligence is generally used in most posts while lasting 20+ pages and I shall raise my hat to you good sir!

[S00NERfan]

Why did the god from the Christian belief do all these crazy miracles like splitting the red sea, killing a whole town, and bringing his son back to life, but now he doesn't do anything cool.. the bible kinda sounds like a story book.

[Zierro]

I agree, I have learned a lot from threads like these. We need an "Intellectual Debate Forum". I.Q. of 90 or higher to enter.

 

 

 

Good idea, maybe an Off Topic Debates Forum instead of one that only applies to RS. (How are you supposed to debate about RS anyway? :-s ) Although, I don't like the idea of an IQ requirement. Let anyone in, that should make it more interesting. :D

[katsuro0]

my 2 cents - as if anyone is paying attention 200 pages in lol

 

 

 

 

 

All religions are essentially the same when you get down to their core message - treat your neighbors like yourself. Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, and all the spin off religions like Sikhism, and any other ones I can't think of right now. Even the myths share very similar themes and settings.

 

 

 

As for the specific beliefs, they all usually have a "logic" behind them that reinforces the ethical system. The ethical system is what is most important in a Religion, because that's what matter to us as humans. Was God divine when he was on Earth? Who gives a ****? If he was divine, it simply means that humans couldn't possibly adapt his ethical system. If he was purely human, then we can certainly emulate what he did (i.e. not imposing violence on others; not remaining indifferent to social problems; and not being self-absorbed, self-centered, and the like).

 

 

 

I think that any matters of faith are simply that; they help people orient themselves. It's the ethical system that matters. You can't be religious if you don't follow the ethical system set out by your religion.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I'm sure an evolution debate seeped into this thread somewhere along the lines. Evolution is essentially irrefutable save for some philosophical semantics about how nothing can be "proven" in science. Just because you don't understand or haven't taking the vast amount of time to learn about it at a scientific level does NOT make it a false theory (hint; learn the definition of theory too)

[EdgedThesis]

Let this f*cking topic die. Nobody is going to convince somebody else that their beliefs are wrong.

 

 

 

This is one of the only Topics on the entire forum where somewhat intelligent arguments are posted by the general posters on it, we need more threads on this forum with actual intelligent debate than spamish 4chan [cabbage] and news articles.

 

I agree, I have learned a lot from threads like these. We need an "Intellectual Debate Forum". I.Q. of 90 or higher to enter.

 

 

 

You don't need a high I.Q to make a good point.

 

Would just take longer to analyze opposing points.

 

A forum like this is conducive to such requirements.

 

 

 

What we need is a humility requirement. Unfortunately something like that can't be quantized.

 

 

 

Hmm, come to think of it-- intelligence cant either.

[Zierro]

What we need is a humility requirement.

 

 

 

It's a debate forum though. I think it's more interesting when people defend their beliefs vigorously than when they just try to conciliate.

[Hobgoblinpie]

Show me an actual picture of god, and then I'll believe he/she/it is real.

[mmmcannibalism]

Show me an actual picture of god, and then I'll believe he/she/it is real.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, god is an invisible pink unicorn so you can not see his picture. Its more helpful to see god in everyday life; but that is something you must do on your own.

[Housepig]

Show me an actual picture of god, and then I'll believe he/she/it is real.

 

 

 

Most religions don't believe you can actualy "see" God anyway--and before using that as an argument, remember that a fundamentalist could (and I think some of them actually do) say, "Show me an actual dinosuar, and then I'll believe evolution is real."

 

 

 

If you're saying you need a picture, what if it were a hoax? If you mean you actualy want to see God...that's not going to happen; you have to use other evidence to support your beliefs.