Ties with platonic friends and family don't involve romantic love or sex.

So sex ruins relationships?

 

This is the issue that we agree to disagree on. I believe that sex and romance are basically 50/50. With that said, romance "threatens" relationships just as much as sex does.

 

Also, out of curiosity, why do you want monogamy still? Is a lot of it coming from your belief that it's more "worthwhile" since it's more difficult and "consistently" long-term? And, (I'll understand if you don't want to answer this) why did you and your girlfriend break up after 5ish years?

 

I want to be monogamous for several reasons.

 

Firstly, I don't believe sex will make me happy. It never did before and I don't see why it will in the future. As a result, I'm not concerned with sleeping around or being "polyamorous" because having sex with one person will be more than enough for me.

 

Secondly, I want to have kids. I believe the benefits of children living in a traditional family are enormous - studying statistics from jail membership to high school graduation make it plainly obvious that children with a present mother and father are much more likely to be stable, successful adults and enjoy stable, successful relationships of their own. This is either impossible or next to so in a polyamorous relationship as you've previously admitted.

 

This is simplified, but I broke up with my girlfriend because I agree with your opinion that monogamy is extremely difficult. It took me a long time to realize, but I decided she was not someone who was capable of making me happy over a lifelong relationship. There are certain qualities I think someone who wants to have a successful marriage should possess, and, in short, I realized she didn't possess them.

 

That's understandable-- but keep in mind that people change over time. Even if you manage to find a girl who you believe meets all of your "criteria" for an awesome wife and mother, there's a very strong chance that ten years down the road she'll be a much different person than the one you married, at least in the context of your relationship, that is. And the scary part is you won't know that until it's "too late."

As muggi said, if you're thinking of experimenting with both, very long term monogamy is probably the riskiest one, no? The issue with kids is a fair point though.

I didn't make any judgement on whether it was a bad thing to place that much effort into something, Muggi, and I'm well aware of argumentum ad populum. I was simply mentioning that people tend to take the path of least resistance, and in a society and culture that overwhelmingly endorses monogamy, monogamy requires a lot less effort to explain and justify to other people to the point that they accept the lifestyle you've chosen. At least, a lot less than you've already shown on this thread.

 

You seem to have mistaken me for arguing that either monogamy or pologamy are natural/unnatural. I'm not, I couldn't care less about that argument. I'm simply arguing that for most people, monogamy is the choice that comes easiest. Divorce statistics actually endorse that fact, since they had to be married in the first place, and even if you dispute that, the reason people divorce isn't necessarily to do with them turning polygamous. How many divorcees go on to form another monogamous relationship?

That's understandable-- but keep in mind that people change over time. Even if you manage to find a girl who you believe meets all of your "criteria" for an awesome wife and mother, there's a very strong chance that ten years down the road she'll be a much different person than the one you married, at least in the context of your relationship, that is. And the scary part is you won't know that until it's "too late."

 

I entirely disagree that people change who they are at the core if they are sufficiently mature by the time you marry them.

It's not necessarily a matter of maturity-- it's a matter of the relationship "progression."

 

You'll probably see changes in your girlfriend/wife's behavior when:

-You move in with her

-You marry her

-You have kids with her

Of course, but none of those changes will change who they are at the core.

Incidentally, as best as I can tell my parents got divorced kind of um... as a result of me being born lol. They were married long enough that at one point I think my maternal grandparents thought my mom wouldn't have kids. And then I was born. And my parents got divorced when I was 2 or 3. My earliest memories are from when I was 3 and my parents were already divorced by then.

 

So, in conclusion, yay for anecdotal evidence?

to be fair Muggiw only brought up jealousy because we did. And of course you cant have poly success stats, because poly is technically always "success". It never really "ends" it just goes on and off. So it's "always" successful. certainly more than a mono relationship it (on then off). There is no permanence. As long as you are attractive, there will always be options in poly. I feel at the thought train that Muggiw is currently living by, he'll die "alone" and be perfectly happy doing so. And that's cool by him. And we're curious why. Personally, that's not how I get my jollies. I want to be married some day. I want to have kids and a legit ass family. And I hate how that seems to be harder to do today that ever before in any age. But I just gotta handle that. Muggiw did. By deciding that's not really what he cares about. I am curious what he does care about. What do you care about Muggiw? When you stop hooking up with mad chicks [assuming you do by the confidence you thrust in this mentality of yours] what are you going to do to entertain yourself?

I think most people equate being alone with loneliness, but that's not the case-- at least for me, it isn't. There's a big difference between being alone and being lonely. With that said, I don't think people are necessarily afraid of growing old and dying alone; they're afraid of growing old and dying without meaningful relationships.

 

The reason why being "alone" for the rest of my life doesn't bother me is because I have close, meaningful relationships with many, many people-- some of which are over 15 years old now.

 

I think a lot of people dislike being alone just because they're a lot more extroverted than I am. They need to constantly be having social interactions or else they'll start feeling unhappy. I'm the opposite. As much as I love my friends, if I'm with them 24 hours a day for more than a few days, I get the urge to be alone for a few days so I can "recharge." Once I've spent enough time in solitude, I'll spend more time with my loved ones. When I was in college, most of my friends would move back in with their families over winter break for a month at a time and I'd be left alone. For the first week or so, I'd really miss my friends and start feeling lonely. But after that first week or so, I'd get used to being alone and enjoy my solitude. When winter break was over, and my friends would want to hang out again, I'd miss being alone for about a week or so until I'd find that "balance" again between being social and being alone.

 

------

 

Regarding "what I care about": for the past four years in college, my mission was related to my fraternity, and I put in countless hours working towards it. But now that that's all finished, I'm in the process of creating a new one. It'll probably be based around similar principles, just in a different setting.

 

I also care a lot about my friends and dedicate a lot of my free time to them, but that's kind of "passive"; I've never actively thought of how to maintain and develop a friendship... it's just something I've naturally been good at.

 

 

...in other words, my friendships are probably my primary source of happiness. But at the same time, it's very comforting to know that I can survive without them if I need to.

 

 

----

 

EDIT: Another way to put it would be-- people are afraid of dying without a romantic partner. But what do they seek in a romantic partner? Usually someone to give you affection, good social interactions, and sex. But you don't need a romantic partner for all of those things; it's just that all of those needs can conveniently be satisfied by one person. But you know I don't think it's a wise idea to rely on just one person to fulfill all of those needs for you :P

That's understandable-- but keep in mind that people change over time. Even if you manage to find a girl who you believe meets all of your "criteria" for an awesome wife and mother, there's a very strong chance that ten years down the road she'll be a much different person than the one you married, at least in the context of your relationship, that is. And the scary part is you won't know that until it's "too late."

 

I entirely disagree that people change who they are at the core if they are sufficiently mature by the time you marry them.

 

Being in a long term relationship of 8 years now, it has changed me to my core. Change is not always bad thing. (Directed at you and muggi.)

Of course it's not always a bad thing. I'm just saying that the people pursuing long-term monogamy are forgetting that regardless of how mature and "prepared" they are, the factors that are going to determine the "success" of their relationship are largely out of their control.

That's understandable-- but keep in mind that people change over time. Even if you manage to find a girl who you believe meets all of your "criteria" for an awesome wife and mother, there's a very strong chance that ten years down the road she'll be a much different person than the one you married, at least in the context of your relationship, that is. And the scary part is you won't know that until it's "too late."

 

I entirely disagree that people change who they are at the core if they are sufficiently mature by the time you marry them.

 

Being in a long term relationship of 8 years now, it has changed me to my core. Change is not always bad thing. (Directed at you and muggi.)

 

But (correct me if I'm wrong) you were fairly young when you started that relationship..and change happens more the younger you are. For example, I was a completely different person four years ago than I am today, but I don't imagine I'll have changed nearly as much four years from now..

 

I think that's a fallacy. People grow more resistant to change over time, but if I've learned one thing from life, it's that EVERYTHING can change in a matter of seconds.

Of course it's not always a bad thing. I'm just saying that the people pursuing long-term monogamy are forgetting that regardless of how mature and "prepared" they are, the factors that are going to determine the "success" of their relationship are largely out of their control.

 

There's more in control by quantity than not in, the argument is whether or not the lower count has a stronger weight than the higher.

 

But (correct me if I'm wrong) you were fairly young when you started that relationship..and change happens more the younger you are. For example, I was a completely different person four years ago than I am today, but I don't imagine I'll have changed nearly as much four years from now..

 

As much? You're probably right. As significantly? No one can say.

If I remember correctly, Muggi had a point about hormonal changes that occur at those key moments, as though it were all a long-term infatuation.

Just to be clear, I'm not necessarily talking about changes in a person's personality as a result of aging/maturing. I'm talking about changes in a person's behavior as a result of those relationship "milestones" that I listed above.

Food for thought... you might find this interesting (particularly RPG and yguy): http://blackdragonblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/but-how-would-an-open-marriage-oltr-actually-work/

I'll read it eventually, it does look interesting. Currently back up with school work and being sick though

http://www.youtube.com/embed/NbxYPFv847M

 

All seriousness aside, I'm guessing this isn't what you've visioned of open marriage.

I think most people equate being alone with loneliness, but that's not the case-- at least for me, it isn't. There's a big difference between being alone and being lonely. With that said, I don't think people are necessarily afraid of growing old and dying alone; they're afraid of growing old and dying without meaningful relationships.

 

The reason why being "alone" for the rest of my life doesn't bother me is because I have close, meaningful relationships with many, many people-- some of which are over 15 years old now.

 

Bahahahhahaha! Please, please be careful how you phrase that. "...some of which are over 15 years old now." That's rather ambiguous and at first I thought you meant some of the people are over 15 years old now.

http://www.youtube.c...bed/NbxYPFv847M

 

All seriousness aside, I'm guessing this isn't what you've visioned of open marriage.

 

I'm so happy the host of the show remained rational and held both sides equally accountable. I was afraid he'd spend the whole show criticizing the man for his behavior and acting like the woman was some poor, innocent victim... when in fact they're both in the wrong.

I'm not really sure on long term relationships, maybe because I haven't really been in one, but I guess my problem is that I've never really met anyone that I've wished to enter into that sort of arrangement with. I struggle to see how people jump into those kinds of relationships so quickly, and dedicate themselves to one person. I see people that do that, and I'm just like "You could be doing the exact same thing so a bunch of other people, why is this person so much different".

 

Partly, it might be because most of the girls I get with I don't feel overly strongly about. I mean, I usually like them, and get on well with them etc, but not enough to sort of enter that serious LTR stage.

I suppose it's not something you understand til you feel it.

 

unrelated /r9k nostalgia:<p>[hide=minor content disclaimer]http://i.imgur.com/HddJv.png[/img%5

http://www.youtube.c...bed/NbxYPFv847M

 

All seriousness aside, I'm guessing this isn't what you've visioned of open marriage.

 

I'm so happy the host of the show remained rational and held both sides equally accountable. I was afraid he'd spend the whole show criticizing the man for his behavior and acting like the woman was some poor, innocent victim... when in fact they're both in the wrong.

The Jeremy Kyle Show is very crudely constructed to provide twists like that; that's what researchers are for, but you're right. I don't necessarily think 'wrong' is the right word though. In relationships, you often find that one person needs the other person's madness. Time and time again you see a person going after another person with exactly the same flaws as a person they were previously involved with.

 

In news that's no way related, Rihanna might be getting back with a man who punched her, slammed her against a car window and held her into a headlock until she barely just escaped unconsciousness. I think I'm right in saying she saw domestic abuse when she was a child too. See my point?

I think there are two reasons why people do that:

1. Because many people lack the emotional maturity to resist their emotional impulses and listen to their rational minds to make decisions which will grant them long-term happiness, as opposed to short-term gratification.

2. Some people out there actually enjoy drama and having an emotional roller coaster of a life. These people usually have otherwise-boring lives, so any kind of excitement is good for them-- even bad excitement (drama)

 

I doubt Rihanna genuinely, rationally believes that getting back together with Chris Brown would be a good idea. But her emotions refuse to allow her to accept that.