Racism speculation

[fgfuyfyuiuy0]

-READ BEFORE POSTING-

 

 

 

Now, before you start with "Those don't seem racial or racist at all considering you aren't a specific race being classified and told another race is superior to you" just stop. I do not believe that there is racism with the particular group I am going to mention. I am simply asking what you think. Do not attempt to flame me by speaking words I did not say. I am simply asking you guys a question and bringing some information into this discussion.

 

 

 

I don't want to see any "tl;dr"s either. If you didn't read, don't bother contributing.

 

 

 

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[hide=Background history of Fgfuyfyuiuy0's family]My great grandpa and great grandma came to America as legal immigrants. They came through Ellis Island and came to America when Irish were treated just as African Americans were. They weren't allowed certain jobs, couldn't do most things Americans could do and it was nearly impossible to survive. There was a lot of hate.

 

 

 

My great grandpa got a job as a cook for a family in New York. My great grandma cleaned the house for the Rockefellers. They were able to afford and apartment and daily food after they were able to maintain these steady jobs. My great grandpa and grandma housed their apartment to immigrants still coming through Ellis Island who didn't have a place to stay or food to eat. They did this free of charge until the immigrants could get a job and become stable as well. They never had the people pay them back or pay them to eat/stay there. My grandpa was born. Discrimination against Irish wasn't as bad as it was when my great grandparents were alive.[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

I am a redhead. I get called a Ginger, Fire crotch, Day Walker, etc. a lot. I am an Irish American which I made up because black people tend to classify themselves as African American.

 

 

 

I don't mind at all being called a Ginger, Fire crotch, etc. because it isn't bad, but it got me thinking that it is classifying a group of people. I am of pretty recent Irish decent and the Irish are mostly viewed as alcoholics, redheaded, loss of pigment, doused with freckles, and having an attitude. I can see how we are classified like that on account of my grandpa is an alcoholic, my siblings and I have red hair, and my sister has a major attitude, but wouldn't this be classifying a race of people?

 

 

 

You can say black people have big lips, like their watermelon, frizzy hair, etc. That is closely related to redheads as you classify a physical feature (Red hair/freckles vs. Black, frizzy hair/big lips), (Watermelon vs. Alcohol), and (Black skin vs. No pigment).

 

 

 

My friends want me to drink with them which I have personal morals against not doing. I saw what it did to my grandpa and I don't want to be the same. Anyways, my friends will be like "You're Irish! You could hold a drink! You could probably drink more than me." That's like saying an Asian kid will beat you at Jeopardy because he's Asian and they are classified as being more intelligent.

 

 

 

Also, names for certain people. People get offended if you say the "N" word as it depicts a black guy and can be considered racist. "C" for Chinese person. "B" for Mexican. The list goes on. Ginger, Fire crotch, etc. seem to classify redheads as they are terms that describe physical features and could be considered "rude".

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have a problem at all being called any of those names nor do I take offense when I hear them. I was wondering what you guys think provided with the information above.

 

 

 

The question would be:

 

"Could being called a Ginger or any other name be deemed racist if redheads took offense to being called these names and possibly cause redheads to be classified as a group affected by racism?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to see Ginger_Warrior's answer

[Lenticular_J]

I make a big deal of being called a cracker or a honky if the mood takes me. Also, when people get up on a high horse about their heritage, I ask if they even know what nation their ancestors came from.

 

 

 

'Course, I can't. I'm a mutt.

[fgfuyfyuiuy0]

I make a big deal of being called a cracker or a honky if the mood takes me. Also, when people get up on a high horse about their heritage, I ask if they even know what nation their ancestors came from.

 

 

 

'Course, I can't. I'm a mutt.

 

 

 

Haha.

 

 

 

I don't mind at all. I was just wondering about how come some races get so worked up while others don't?

 

 

 

(This isn't about what you said, but you reminded me) Also, I know my heritage as I have told people about my ancestors. I like to know about my family and heritage, so I know that my great grandparents went through some tough times and today Irish are still classified. So, I wonder why we are so... relaxed (?) about it while other races aren't or even if people consider it racism.

[Kenshinjapan]

The only time racism bothers me is when someone tells another that they were just offended by them, but they turn around and say "offensive" things about other races.

 

 

 

I lol'ed at the tiny part, though.

[fgfuyfyuiuy0]

The only time racism bothers me is when someone tells another that they were just offended by them, but they turn around and say "offensive" things about other races.

 

 

 

 

So, you hate hypocrites? :lol:

[Kenshinjapan]

More or less :lol: . It's worse when they don't realize it though :x

[TheChamp]

i not think redheads can be group affected by racism because not all redhead are a 'ginger'. but i think the word should be on same level as 'n' word if you know what i mean!

 

 

 

I make a big deal of being called a cracker or a honky if the mood takes me. Also, when people get up on a high horse about their heritage, I ask if they even know what nation their ancestors came from.

 

 

 

'Course, I can't. I'm a mutt.

 

 

 

Haha.

 

 

 

I don't mind at all. I was just wondering about how come some races get so worked up while others don't?

 

 

 

 

 

 

i only notice african american is one that make most people mad, i think because the 'n' was use during slavery era!

[Lenticular_J]

I make a big deal of being called a cracker or a honky if the mood takes me. Also, when people get up on a high horse about their heritage, I ask if they even know what nation their ancestors came from.

 

 

 

'Course, I can't. I'm a mutt.

 

 

 

Haha.

 

 

 

I don't mind at all. I was just wondering about how come some races get so worked up while others don't?

 

 

 

(This isn't about what you said, but you reminded me) Also, I know my heritage as I have told people about my ancestors. I like to know about my family and heritage, so I know that my great grandparents went through some tough times and today Irish are still classified. So, I wonder why we are so... relaxed (?) about it while other races aren't or even if people consider it racism.

 

Well, it isn't the most difficult thing in the world to know where you're from. :lol:

 

 

 

Racism isn't a big deal with most people in the South, despite what people make us out to be. Everyone tells jokes about everyone.

 

 

 

Also, thechamp. Just no. Bad. Go to your timeout chair. Bad. Do I need to hit you on the nose with a newspaper?

[gonpost]

My post is probably interesting past the second paragraph...it's a stream-of-consciousness analysis. I'll probably contradict myself, but take the latter statement to be the true one.

 

 

 

I sincerely doubt it. You're white, so there's no chance at all of you being declared a minority or even a group affected by racism. It MIGHT if the problem was absolutely rampant, but that won't happen (for the foreseeable future). I'm glad you don't take offense because most people don't mean it with bad intentions, especially with the current teen-20s generation.

 

 

 

I have to admit I find it funny that blacks sometimes call themselves or are called "African American". To be perfectly honest, I'm about as French as most of the black people I know are African. Do I ever even consider calling myself French? Hell no, there's no reason. I'm just a white dude, it's really rather irrelevant.

 

 

 

But then again, what do you call people from Asia? Can't really call them yellows, now can we. You're stuck with Asian. Why don't we call them Asian-Americans? Most people just call them Asians.

 

 

 

So perhaps it's just best to call white people exactly that, white. They almost never identify themselves with any country other than the US, whereas people of other racial descents tend to. This is most likely because minorities feel pressured, or at least compelled, to identify themselves with some origin, and thus they will often group themselves as something other than just "black". African gives them roots.

 

 

 

It would be, for many decades to come at least, a naive idealization to hope that people will not care what they are called or where their roots are. Perhaps what really matters is where you were born and raised, not where your great grandparents came from?

 

 

 

I'm very curious to see how racial attitudes will progress throughout my lifetime. :)

[Kenshinjapan]

gonpost, I can safely say that lenticular and I are the minority in our schools. Since we're near the borders, a lot more mexicans enter the schools.

 

 

 

It's 53% to be exact that are mexican in my school (and it's consider the "rich white school" out of the two high schools in my town)

[Lenticular_J]

Perhaps what really matters is where you were born and raised, not where your great grandparents came from?

 

This is what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

And Kenshin is right, white people are minorities in much of this state. Half my friends' parents are illegal immigrants from Mexico and Honduras and the like. But, hey, they're still my friends. And their parents make some of the damn tastiest food.

 

 

 

EDIT: And Kenshin, what part of the state are you in? Immigrants, legal and illegal, seem to congregate here (Lubbock).

[gonpost]

gonpost, I can safely say that lenticular and I are the minority in our schools. Since we're near the borders, a lot more mexicans enter the schools.

 

 

 

It's 53% to be exact that are mexican in my school (and it's consider the "rich white school" out of the two high schools in my town)

 

 

 

Ah, but the thing is, it'd have to go state-wide to get any attention at all. To be "classified" as a group affected by racism, I think you'd need more than that. Not to mention, there are so many sub-groups of white people. Africans tend to look African and Asians tend to look Asian (to the large majority of Americans). There's your blonds, your brunettes, your redheads, your pale white people, your blue/green/hazel/grey/brown eyes, the Italian complex, the French complex, the Swedish complex, the Russian complex, etc. Too much variation means that no one feels the need to particularly make fun or oppress, in any manner, a particular small group of people. If red-headed pale Irish people make up .05% of the population, that's not enough to garner enough attention.

 

 

 

The main thing is giving a particular group enough attention. I sincerely doubt that would happen to a group comprising a small portion of the population like the people who are obviously Irish.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it unlikely.

 

 

 

EDIT: I've gtg to bed, so I can't continue the convo tonight.

[Kenshinjapan]

Perhaps what really matters is where you were born and raised, not where your great grandparents came from?

 

This is what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

And Kenshin is right, white people are minorities in much of this state. Half my friends' parents are illegal immigrants from Mexico and Honduras and the like. But, hey, they're still my friends. And their parents make some of the damn tastiest food.

 

 

 

EDIT: And Kenshin, what part of the state are you in? Immigrants, legal and illegal, seem to congregate here (Lubbock).

 

 

 

Sucks to live in a college town, I bet. It's a dry county, correct? Anyways, I'm from Odessa (close to Midland if you don't know where that is). It's about a 2 hour drive from lubbock.

[Giordano]

The meaning of racism is lost in today's age. A racist would want to kill and ignore a certain race; such as the KKK and Adolf Hitler. But making names about it...nah, that's not definately racist. Hell, my friends all use these names quite often. Now being Argentine, a country south of the US-Mexican border, I'm a beaner. So when there's something trapped behind a fence "Hey Nick, climb that fence and get the fast." It's just little things that are funny and not taken seriously. An asian friend of mine, I nicknamed Chino; which is Spanish for Chinese and the white friends are the crackers and skinheads. It's just so dug in, that it'll be hard to stop. :lol: And I can perfectly assure you, none of my friends would hate a person just cos of their race.

[Lenticular_J]

Perhaps what really matters is where you were born and raised, not where your great grandparents came from?

 

This is what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

And Kenshin is right, white people are minorities in much of this state. Half my friends' parents are illegal immigrants from Mexico and Honduras and the like. But, hey, they're still my friends. And their parents make some of the damn tastiest food.

 

 

 

EDIT: And Kenshin, what part of the state are you in? Immigrants, legal and illegal, seem to congregate here (Lubbock).

 

 

 

Sucks to live in a college town, I bet. It's a dry county, correct? Anyways, I'm from Odessa (close to Midland if you don't know where that is). It's about a 2 hour drive from lubbock.

 

Meh, it isn't terrible, I guess. I do have to say I hate it, though. Not just because it's a college town, but that Lubbock sucks in general.

 

 

 

Hehe, we went off-topic in off-topic.

[Kenshinjapan]

 

Meh, it isn't terrible, I guess. I do have to say I hate it, though. Not just because it's a college town, but that Lubbock sucks in general.

 

 

 

Hehe, we went off-topic in off-topic.

 

 

 

At least the street layout is really nice there! Really easy to follow if you're not familiar :mrgreen: . But just so I don't feel totally guilty, I'll contribute to the topic a bit more:

 

 

 

A word is only racist if you choose it to be.

[warri0r45]

The question would be:

 

"Could being called a Ginger or any other name be deemed racist if redheads took offense to being called these names and possibly cause redheads to be classified as a group affected by racism?"

 

 

 

Logically speaking, I can't see any difference between pointing out that someone is black in an effort to devalue them or pointing out that someone has red hair in an effort to devalue them. Theyre both racist attitudes.

 

 

 

But when it comes to whats seen as racist in general society, it seems to come down to how people point out a physical difference (in what tone and context) and what precedent has been set for judging the physical difference in the past.

 

 

 

Historically speaking, pointing out that someone is black has been in the context of devaluing or dehumanising them and this has set a precedent which carries through to this day. Did you know that the N word was originally derived from the Latin word niger, which means black? You may scratch your head and think how is essentially calling someone black different from calling someone white or pointing out that someone has red hair? As said above, the key there is the context its used in, both today and in the past. The precedent set for the meaning of a word means everything in this issue.

 

 

 

On the other hand, I don't think there's been such malice behind comments directed at red heads. That's why a comment about someone's red hair isn't really seen as racist but a comment about the dark colour of someone's skin is. In other words, there's not been that precedent set yet.

 

 

 

Racism is more the attitude behind the words than words themselves. I dont really think that racism can be judged by how offended someone is at the supposedly racist comments, either. Its really whats in the head of the people calling you names. If someones attitude is that people of a certain racial group (which arguably includes red heads) are all of lesser value or humanity than themselves and their own racial group, then they are racists.

 

 

 

But as I said, what a society deems racist isnt that logical.

[Iamdan]

If enough people spoke out about it, the world is stupid enough to add 'calling a redhead ginger' to the list of racist things.

 

 

 

I don't see what's wrong with race stereotypes, we are in an age where everybody knows they aren't actually true.

 

 

 

I get crap from friends and relatives in the states for being Australian all the time. Apparently Australia has the stereotype of being like crocodile dundee. I get told I butcher the english language when I talk, asked why I drive a carolla instead of 'taking a kangaroo,' and everyone not living in Australia seems to think we all use Australian slang. I tell them things like I usually ride kangaroos but I use the carolla to transport all the crocodiles I wrestle. I was in the states one time and went to taco bell, the guy there recognized my accent and said "put another shrimp on the barbie" looking at me like I knew what he was talking about. (I had only ever heard it once and had forgotten all about it)

 

 

 

I know a tall redhead that calls himself Clifford, because he is a 'big red dog.'

 

 

 

I know it's all in good fun and doesn't mean anything, I don't know anybody who doesn't joke around by encouraging their own stereotypes.

[RichieMcD]

Unfortunately for you and I many people are yet to realise the Irish stereotypes are nowadays completely untrue. The alcoholic stereotype came about because in the 19-20th century Ireland suffered severe food shortages / poverty, so many resourced to alcohol to help deal with the pain / stress. We never had a attitude, the Irish are world renowned for their welcome to tourists, In my school year, all Irish, there is only 11 Ginger kids out of 157 people, that's 7% of people being Ginger.

 

 

 

Basically if they take the piss out of you for being Irish just go along with it, if they say "you're Irish, sure you're a heavyweight" I'd normally reply "Ye I know, it's [cabbage]e, costs more to get hammered :lol: "

 

 

 

If people know you take offence to it then they'll keep taking the piss out of you for it.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I love being ginger. I wouldn't have this nickname if I didn't. :P

 

 

 

Whenever I get called those terms in the street it really doesn't bother me. It doesn't say a lot about the person giving the 'abuse' - except the fact they can see hair. So it makes them look stupid for pointing out the flippin' obvious, and that's something I exploit to take the Michael out of them in return. I reply with something along the lines of "Oh wow, you're observant aren't you?!"

 

 

 

In terms of where I stand with everyone else (social groups and that), I've always been part of a minority. I was one of about 4 people in my year of ~100 at high school who listened to rock. I was always smart in comparison to most other people in my year. Everyone else wanted to go out, get drunk and get girls - I couldn't think of anything I'd rather less do. That's where I like being. I like being at odds with the norm. Having ginger hair just reinforces that, and strangely, it actually gives me confidence.

[Kenshinjapan]

I love being ginger. I wouldn't have this nickname if I didn't. :P

 

 

 

Whenever I get called those terms in the street it really doesn't bother me. It doesn't say a lot about the person giving the 'abuse' - except the fact they can see hair. So it makes them look stupid for pointing out the flippin' obvious, and that's something I exploit to take the Michael out of them in return. I reply with something along the lines of "Oh wow, you're observant aren't you?!"

 

 

 

In terms of where I stand with everyone else (social groups and that), I've always been part of a minority. I was one of about 4 people in my year of ~100 at high school who listened to rock. I was always smart in comparison to most other people in my year. Everyone else wanted to go out, get drunk and get girls - I couldn't think of anything I'd rather less do. That's where I like being. I like being at odds with the norm. Having ginger hair just reinforces that, and strangely, it actually gives me confidence.

 

:lol: I like how you think to keep yourself motivated :lol: .

[Bufoman]

Hmm ever seen that episode of South Park where Cartman thinks he's a Ginger?

 

 

 

At any rate I don't think you can classify Gingers as a race, as their offspring are not guaranteed to share those distinguishing traits. The 'races' pass on their traits to their children (Skin Color, Hair Color, Physical build such a Jaw Bone structure, extra), where as Gingers do not. The exception to this rule is when races mix, then their is no guarantee what to expect. Their have been 'white' blacks who are practically albino's.

[anonymous1234]

First off, I'd like to say that when a person born in america, and say they are Irish-American, African-American, Asian-American, or any other _____-American, they aren't. You're born in America, your American. Describing someone by the color of their skin or hair isn't racist, unless they say it in a negative tone and in a hateful context. I don't really get discriminated against, ever. (I avoid the [wagon] and racist nuts)

[ThurinEthir]

I'm not sure what I'd think if someone called me Asian-American. My mom was born in Taiwan, my dad was born in Hong Kong (Though under British rule), and neither of them are citizens. I was born in Taiwan, not a citizen either. However, I've spent a good deal of my life in the US, though I also lived in Taiwan for a portion of my childhood.

 

That being said, I'm in the minority at my school either way. Most people here are Jewish (Possibly some Catholics), and are filthy rich white kids. I'm Asian, Protestant, and a bit lower on the social scale.

 

People assume I'm smart, because I'm Asian, but I guess they have good reason to. We do make up the fourth best math team in the state.

 

Honestly though, I have never heard anyone refer to anyone else with a "vulgar" term here...We're all nice kids...Yeah...

 

It depends on the intent behind the words, not the words themselves. If you're in a middle of an argument with someone and they pop out "ginger" or whatever, that's going a bit too far. If you're joking around, and it pops out, oh well, laugh it off, move on.

 

(For the record, there are like 2 redheads at my school. Go figure.)

[warren211]

I hate the double standards our country has. White guys or any other race cannot call black people the N word, yet amongst themselves they do it frequently. I was in Chicago one day and saw on a bus advertising a Black radio station. Their slogan was "I see black people".

 

 

 

Two things wrong with this. One: A radio station for blacks? What would happen if there was a radio station for whites? National controversy, loss of jobs, and CNN going berserk with on-the-spot news coverage. Two: The slogan. If there was a radio station saying "I see white people" it would probably be looked down upon.

 

 

 

Then there's Black history month. What would happen if there was a White history month? Sure, there are many countries with White people and that would mean a lot to cover in the month, but then there are also a lot of Black countries as well.

 

 

 

I'm of Indian/Pakistani heritage so this stuff doesn't mean much to me anyways, but I'm still dissappointed at all these double standards.