Here's something thats been bugging me

[Ts_Stormrage]

I havent fought any serious F2P war in 2 years where Fireblast was allowed...

 

 

 

Why is this...

 

 

 

I believe it is one of the major causes of why Rangers and to some extend Mages are undervalued on F2P...

 

 

 

Right now, the standard rules for an F2P war is that Binds, and even Curses on occasion, are allowed but no actual damaging spells... This results in two things; The first is that any meleers can take comfort in the fact that noone is going to punch straight through their armor, and all they have to do is stay away from any large group of enemies that is trying to kill them. And 2nd it makes rangers pretty much obsolete, as they have only a small chance to punch through a full set of Rune armor, and the armor that they CAN defeat (mage gear) isnt used.

 

 

 

This leaves out a whole range (no pun intended) of tactical set-ups, especially today with the new mage and anti-mage equipment. The new Runecrafting staff provides a whopping 15 points of mage defense, for example. Jagex even tried to differentiate between Binders and Blasters (they use completely different set of runes too), the latter group which would sooner use the Combat Robes rather then Druidic.

 

 

 

So why are these generally not allowed?

 

Afraid you'll die too quick? I have news; if your enemy can use it, SO CAN YOU...

 

 

 

A melee/binds-only war deprives you of a bucket load of options that you should be a master of as well if you really wish to be called a good warring clan, and is one reason why I have a little less respect for clans that insist on putting limits to wars... My clan (Tal Shiar for those who don't know) only sparsely wars on F2P. I can tell you right now that on P2P, where the options you have available to you are tripe that of F2p, it is often the equipment set-ups and roles you take on with those set-ups that have made us won almost every war.

 

 

 

I have yet to see a good arguement against the Fireblast...

 

And the fact that it requires the highest of any F2P levels to use it (Rune and Green Dhide are both 40, Fireblast is 59) doesn't fly. Not only can this be considered an Achievement on F2P since it is one of the more expensive skills to train up, it also costs you every second that you fight. Compare this to a Melee-er who only has to buy Strength Potions as he uses nothing else up compared to the mage (both use food, I know). Even the Ranger doesnt compare; Adamant Arrows cost 120 gp per shot when not retrieved, a Fireblast costs 386 gp, and a Bind 536 gp, and is definitly not retrievable.

 

 

 

With the Fist of Guthix minigame, people can now train magic up for free, while at the same time saving up for their Druidic and Combat Robes... So find me a good reason NOT to use blasters...

 

 

 

It is time that the Meleer is topled from his pedestal and forced to accept that you're no good tank unless you can tank against all three types of attack.

[AnneFrank]

I have wondered about that.....

 

and tanking all 3 types of combat is alot harder then tanking 1(or 2).

 

So i am curious what serious f2p clans don't do fire blasts(or damage spells)

 

I mean all the f2p clan wars (with my friends for fun) we use mage alot.

 

It makes the match funner and more diverse.

 

 

 

FIRE BLAST IS FTW 8-)

[InkofDeath]

For mains magic isn't used at all, for pure clans, magic is a regular thing used.

 

 

 

Reason for mains is full rune, and magic prayer, and you're completely set against all 3 in F2P.

 

 

 

Also add in there's no classes, or anything to bind you to one attack type, and then add in how much faster it is to train with melee, and you have meleers outweighing by at least 70-80% in most cases.

 

 

 

Another thing for F2P is that the robes themselves suck crap in comparison to the rune, or range armour, even in p2p they are lacking. Perhaps this will change with the runecrafting robes, but who knows.

 

 

 

Also magic is extremely expensive if you use it only. Using melee, and then using binds, is pretty much equal to how much ranging costs per war.

 

 

 

Side note: in 1on1, all three combat types do equal out. Just in wars you use more arrows/runes/strength pots.

 

 

 

That's mainly mains though.

 

 

 

As well dragonhide doesn't crease or hinder your melee. Wearing rune does hinder your range/magic. So wear dragonhide, and have any prayer up, and you aren't going to die, especially if you bring multiple pieces of armour. If magic armour, or robes had defense bonuses, or they had something like 'metal-lined robes' that gave 1/7 of what the appropriate type of armour gives (bronze, steel, rune..etc), magic would be reasonable.

 

 

 

Magic is only good for binding, and teleporting, not as a main attack in f2p. It's how they redid magic early on, and how underpowered they've kept it in f2p. Melee or Ranging are the only ways to go. I doubt it will ever change to, since you need all combat stats to be at max to have the highest level in the game, which just adds to the complication of increasing the capacity of magic in wars.

 

 

 

P2P is a different story however. A mage in p2p can actually kill a meleer with a godsword or a dds/whip combo.

[Ts_Stormrage]

You misunderstand Skatedog...

 

 

 

I wasnt ranting about the incompetence of mages, I was ranting against clans agreeing not to use them in wars...

[jcfc]

Magic is the only damage-dealing skill that does not require you to use combat - in fact, not many people use combat to train it at all. It also makes organisation harder, and the fight will turn out chaotic.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Magic is the only damage-dealing skill that does not require you to use combat - in fact, not many people use combat to train it at all. It also makes organisation harder, and the fight will turn out chaotic.

 

 

 

Still not an arguement against using Fire Blasts in F2P wars... Both sides can use it, and the added level of difficulty and chaos only helps in determining the true winner, levelling the playing field by adding more factors to take into consideration in it...

 

 

 

Also, I beg to differ on the Magic training not being done with combat... Plenty of people use it in Fist of Guthix...

[jcfc]

Magic is the only damage-dealing skill that does not require you to use combat - in fact, not many people use combat to train it at all. It also makes organisation harder, and the fight will turn out chaotic.

 

 

 

Still not an arguement against using Fire Blasts in F2P wars... Both sides can use it, and the added level of difficulty and chaos only helps in determining the true winner, levelling the playing field by adding more factors to take into consideration in it...

 

 

 

Also, I beg to differ on the Magic training not being done with combat... Plenty of people use it in Fist of Guthix...

 

Plenty more people hi-alch. And you can't truly work out who is the better organised clan if everyone is blasting left right and center.

[lord_troyus]

Why do you NEED to know who is more organised?

 

 

 

Surely if a clan wins despite numbers + levels - even if it didn't look like it - They were probably more organised.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Exactly troyus...

 

 

 

"Blasting left right and center" doesnt sound organised anyways... But adding this new level of difficulty for both tankers as well as the ones calling the piles only sets the standard a little higher if you truly wish to prove you are truly a good warring clan...

 

 

 

Especially since you have to consider the fact that you may send a few melee-ers afetr a mage of theirs, but its much wiser to let rangers deal with an enemy mage...

[Wisp]

I presume it was just a trend that started at one point, and it caught on, and once people were used to tanking melee/range, they couldn't do it as well for mage, and they would lose some of their abilities, sort of, if it was allowed.

[The Observer]

I suppose they're doing it because they don't want to have the pressure of being binded or having to bind properly. It makes wars longer really, and that's what those clans probably want.

[Ts_Stormrage]

So this comes from the fear of losing your stuff in the wild, somethign which has been impossible for more then 8 months?

[lord_troyus]

I think its a mix.

 

Full rune costs more than mage robes (used to) or dragonhide. Admittedly the supps would cost a fair bit but they would be used up in wars. If 2 clans warred, both clans would be able to loot full rune for each kill. Making the winning clan fairly rich (this is wars not PKRI's).

 

 

 

I guess they got into the style of melee vs melee and so thought there was no point changing after december 10.

[InkofDeath]

You misunderstand Skatedog...

 

 

 

I wasnt ranting about the incompetence of mages, I was ranting against clans agreeing not to use them in wars...

 

Oh, I see. My bad.

 

I didn't know in the main world that they were disallowing magic from being used...

[jcfc]

Exactly troyus...

 

 

 

"Blasting left right and center" doesnt sound organised anyways... But adding this new level of difficulty for both tankers as well as the ones calling the piles only sets the standard a little higher if you truly wish to prove you are truly a good warring clan...

 

 

 

Especially since you have to consider the fact that you may send a few melee-ers afetr a mage of theirs, but its much wiser to let rangers deal with an enemy mage...

 

If people are blasting, you can't tank because blasts slaughter rune and meleers slaughter dhide, you can't tell as easily who is attacking who, and there's little to no point in running. And regarding a ranger attacking the mage, they're normally the first target for melee piles.

[Ts_Stormrage]

I think you JUST described the wrong use of the combat triangle...

 

 

 

Little word of advise, but as a meleer, who has to run to reach a mage, and has NEGATIVE magic defense, it is ill advised to actually try and kill them. This is why you have rangers... These rangers have a further reach then mages do, and actually have a good magic defense. Considering the mages outfits have little to NO defense against rangers, you should sent your rangers after mages, not your meleers...

 

 

 

If your tactics are flawed, it doesnt mean you have to ban an entire class of warrior out of the wars...

 

 

 

As for running being pointless, you're absolutely right, mages blast straigt through your armor and you cant run form those... So perhaps its best not to go in full melee outfit next time? If you're a ranger then you're a much easier target for meleers, but you can run form them cant you? :) (I wont even go into hybrid outfits now)

[Beaumonde]

However much I agree with what your saying you should change the topic title, it's kinda deceptive.

[jcfc]

I think you JUST described the wrong use of the combat triangle...

 

 

 

Little word of advise, but as a meleer, who has to run to reach a mage, and has NEGATIVE magic defense, it is ill advised to actually try and kill them. This is why you have rangers... These rangers have a further reach then mages do, and actually have a good magic defense. Considering the mages outfits have little to NO defense against rangers, you should sent your rangers after mages, not your meleers...

 

 

 

If your tactics are flawed, it doesnt mean you have to ban an entire class of warrior out of the wars...

 

 

 

As for running being pointless, you're absolutely right, mages blast straigt through your armor and you cant run form those... So perhaps its best not to go in full melee outfit next time? If you're a ranger then you're a much easier target for meleers, but you can run form them cant you? :) (I wont even go into hybrid outfits now)

 

Ever heard of binds?

[lord_troyus]

I think you JUST described the wrong use of the combat triangle...

 

 

 

Little word of advise, but as a meleer, who has to run to reach a mage, and has NEGATIVE magic defense, it is ill advised to actually try and kill them. This is why you have rangers... These rangers have a further reach then mages do, and actually have a good magic defense. Considering the mages outfits have little to NO defense against rangers, you should sent your rangers after mages, not your meleers...

 

 

 

If your tactics are flawed, it doesnt mean you have to ban an entire class of warrior out of the wars...

 

 

 

As for running being pointless, you're absolutely right, mages blast straigt through your armor and you cant run form those... So perhaps its best not to go in full melee outfit next time? If you're a ranger then you're a much easier target for meleers, but you can run form them cant you? :) (I wont even go into hybrid outfits now)

 

Ever heard of binds?

 

 

 

I think he means the clans fighting in favour of the combat triangle. Not just hybrids stopping the enemy. Damaging aswell. But binds bounce off dhide anyway.

[Deathmath]

Well put troy. I remember in early Runescape career I looted at wars. (neeby but whatever). Fire blast was common. (This was before rangers got the update.) It didn't work well at all. However after the ranged update it's a general thought of mine that using blast would stop meleers from dominating. At the moment any mages in clan wars are piled but if they get more this is not possible.

[lord_troyus]

You sure you didn't loot at PKRI's?

[angry555]

Well put troy. I remember in early Runescape career I looted at wars. (neeby but whatever). Fire blast was common. (This was before rangers got the update.) It didn't work well at all. However after the ranged update it's a general thought of mine that using blast would stop meleers from dominating. At the moment any mages in clan wars are piled but if they get more this is not possible.

 

 

 

True that mages are piled instantly but the price for being able to do more damage is being hurt more.

[Ts_Stormrage]

But what if your army is not a handful of mages, but makes up 30% of your forces with 20% rangers and 50 soldiers..?

 

 

 

If you face those kind of odds with your 95% melee 5% binder force, you're going to be wasted...

[InkofDeath]

But what if your army is not a handful of mages, but makes up 30% of your forces with 20% rangers and 50 soldiers..?

 

 

 

If you face those kind of odds with your 95% melee 5% binder force, you're going to be wasted...

 

Meleers packing full rune + dragon hide, as they should, will completely dominate that 30% quickly. Instead of having the majority on one meleer tanking for 30-60 seconds like what usually happens, you'll kill those mages in robes within 5 seconds, with only 4-6 meleers/rangers.

 

 

 

Mages don't have good enough armour to be properly used. 100% soldiers will easily kill off 20% to 70% of Mages. Why? It's faster to kill a mage with melee, then a mage can kill a meleer.

 

 

 

It's a huge waste to have your army built up with mages, as they may hit hard on rune, but they will die faster than they can cast 3, perhaps 4 fire blasts. This isn't even considering wearing Dragon Hide against Mages.

 

 

 

This only explains F2P though.

 

 

 

In P2P DDS's will take control easily, or godswords will kill off the mystic armour much faster.

[Ts_Stormrage]

There are oh so many things wrong with your post, Skatedog...

 

 

 

First of all, if 10 guys launch a barrage of Fireblasts on a guy with full rune (this is whats known as Piling) I doubt he has time to switch to Dhide fast enough... With todays gear in the form of Full Combat robes (add in runecrafter hat for fun), the magic combat bonus is enough to blast through a guy who wields half rune half green dhide and do enough damage to kill someone with 99 hp def and magic... In wars things dont go 1 vs 1 and a mage is even more capable of running away then someone carrying the weight of full rune...

 

 

 

As for your P2P comment, dont even go there...

 

1: ANY selfrespecting mage has long ditched his mystic for Ahrims...

 

2: ANY pile of DDS-ers in Dhide with mage protect on will have a very hard time even REACHING an ancient

 

3: Godswords are nice, but against a mage you're beter off spending your cash on a DFS