The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[Lordjake]

McCain has his own pastor problem, don't forget about him.

 

 

 

This past March, McCain called Pastor Ron Parsely "one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide".

 

 

 

During a 2005 sermon, Parsely called Islam "the greatest religious enemy of our civilization and the world," claiming that the historic mission of America is to see "this false religion destroyed." In this taped sermon, currently sold by his megachurch, the Reverend Rod Parsley reiterates and amplifies harsh and derogatory comments about Islam he made in his book, Silent No More, published the same year he delivered these remarks

 

 

 

Parsley approvingly quotes Christian theologian Jonathan Edwards' reference to Islam as "Satan's Mohammedan kingdom."

 

 

 

etc etc etc...

[dangeresque]

Yes, both of them aren't perfect by any means :.

[jackattack]

McCain has his own pastor problem, don't forget about him.

 

 

 

This past March, McCain called Pastor Ron Parsely "one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide".

 

 

 

During a 2005 sermon, Parsely called Islam "the greatest religious enemy of our civilization and the world," claiming that the historic mission of America is to see "this false religion destroyed." In this taped sermon, currently sold by his megachurch, the Reverend Rod Parsley reiterates and amplifies harsh and derogatory comments about Islam he made in his book, Silent No More, published the same year he delivered these remarks

 

 

 

Parsley approvingly quotes Christian theologian Jonathan Edwards' reference to Islam as "Satan's Mohammedan kingdom."

 

 

 

etc etc etc...

 

 

 

Rod Parsely isn't even comparable to Jeremiah Wright. He is not even McCain's pastor while Wright was Obama's for 20 years. He only endorsed McCain. Same with Hagee, although I'll never understand how anybody can say he is anti-semetic. Even if you take Wright out of the picture, look at the church Obama went to. It is like the main church in the country for teaching black liberation theology. That's almost worse that having Wright for a pastor. Black liberation theology basically says that if God is not on black peoples side and is trying to kill white people then black people need to kill God. And McCain's actual pastor is very respectable.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/m ... /17481.htm

[Ginger_Warrior]

See, there's one thing I just can't get about this whole pastor thing.

 

 

 

They accuse Obama of having a dodgy pastor in a Christian church, and then you get some people going about saying he's a half-Muslim (like such a thing exists anyway). Note the bold: you can't really be both.

 

 

 

...Are these people unable to comprehend simple logic, or are they just plain stupid?

[dragoonson]

See, there's one thing I just can't get about this whole pastor thing.

 

 

 

They accuse Obama of having a dodgy pastor in a Christian church, and then you get some people going about saying he's a half-Muslim (like such a thing exists anyway). Note the bold: you can't really be both.

 

 

 

...Are these people unable to comprehend simple logic, or are they just plain stupid?

 

 

 

Not true.You are required to be Muslim by heritage,but if you believe in Christian ideology...I personally know one such person.

[Saru Inc]

He is also close friends with a domestic bomber.

 

 

 

I think it will be fun to see him fail when he gets voted in :.

 

You mean there are people who actually believe Obama doesn't have links with terrorists?

 

 

 

Wow...

 

 

 

I had Tip.It down to be slightly more intelligent than that.

 

 

 

Just because you like Obama, don't ignore the facts. Of course, I'd have to say Tip.it IS the molst athiestic unintelligent democratic site I've been too, lol. But, so is all of the internet if you think about it.

[Ginger_Warrior]

See, there's one thing I just can't get about this whole pastor thing.

 

 

 

They accuse Obama of having a dodgy pastor in a Christian church, and then you get some people going about saying he's a half-Muslim (like such a thing exists anyway). Note the bold: you can't really be both.

 

 

 

...Are these people unable to comprehend simple logic, or are they just plain stupid?

 

 

 

Not true.You are required to be Muslim by heritage,but if you believe in Christian ideology...I personally know one such person.

 

No, you either believe Jesus is the son of God, or you don't. It's as simple as. Religion is not hereditary, unless it's forced upon you, which doesn't strike me as particularly American anyway.

 

 

 

Just because you like Obama, don't ignore the facts. Of course, I'd have to say Tip.it IS the molst athiestic unintelligent democratic site I've been too, lol. But, so is all of the internet if you think about it.

 

What facts are these? That he sat on a charity board for this bomber? Oh damn, is that all you've got against him? Palin makes him sound like al-Qaeda's second-in-command who's really on an agenda to overthrow the federal government and turn the US into an Islamic Republic.

 

 

 

But then she also calls abortion "murder", she doesn't seem to have a problem with her campaign receiving dodgy cheques from failing banks, she doesn't seem to have a problem with opening a third front on the War on Terror, she seems to believe that a bridge which she claimed was vital for prosperity is no longer needed, she doesn't seem to recognise global warming is in part a man made problem, she seems to believe being governor of the least densest state in the Union for just two years qualifies you for VP, and she seems to believe a degree in journalism means she's more qualified than fully trained scientists in deciding whether polar bears are endangered; so frankly, it doesn't surprise me she'll also blow this out of all proportions.

 

 

 

If you, along with the neo-cons in America, prefer to be scared into a vote through misrepresentation of opinions, rather than look for a candidate with rational answers based on Planet Earth, then you go right ahead and vote for the Palin-McCain ticket (no typo). But don't sit here and wonder in four years time why America has lost its global authority because the world is sick to death of those neo-cons controlling our economic system and invading countries they have no right to invade, on the basis they're more "moral" than the rest of the world.

[1_man_army]

 

 

 

edit:

McCain says Ronald Reagan is his hero and Reagan is war criminal...

 

how is Reagan a war criminal :| ?

 

 

 

It was a semi-sarcastic post, I was using to make a point (that being that it's easy to smear). His involvement in the Iran-Contra affair (he claims that he didn't know...my backside). That, and his support of several "good" anti-Communist dictators (including Noriega and Saddam Hussein).

 

 

 

As I said the post was there more to make a point regarding how easy it is to smear like this rather than to just bash McCain or Reagan. I'm not really interested in talking about Reagan in depth as I don't want to take this thread too far off topic. (I know it's my fault for bringing the topic up but there was a slight bit of reasoning behind it when I posted).

[Saru Inc]

See, there's one thing I just can't get about this whole pastor thing.

 

 

 

They accuse Obama of having a dodgy pastor in a Christian church, and then you get some people going about saying he's a half-Muslim (like such a thing exists anyway). Note the bold: you can't really be both.

 

 

 

...Are these people unable to comprehend simple logic, or are they just plain stupid?

 

 

 

Not true.You are required to be Muslim by heritage,but if you believe in Christian ideology...I personally know one such person.

 

No, you either believe Jesus is the son of God, or you don't. It's as simple as. Religion is not hereditary, unless it's forced upon you, which doesn't strike me as particularly American anyway.

 

 

 

Just because you like Obama, don't ignore the facts. Of course, I'd have to say Tip.it IS the molst athiestic unintelligent democratic site I've been too, lol. But, so is all of the internet if you think about it.

 

What facts are these? That he sat on a charity board for this bomber? Oh damn, is that all you've got against him? Palin makes him sound like al-Qaeda's second-in-command who's really on an agenda to overthrow the federal government and turn the US into an Islamic Republic.

 

 

 

But then she also calls abortion "murder", she doesn't seem to have a problem with her campaign receiving dodgy cheques from failing banks, she doesn't seem to have a problem with opening a third front on the War on Terror, she seems to believe that a bridge which she claimed was vital for prosperity is no longer needed, she doesn't seem to recognise global warming is in part a man made problem, she seems to believe being governor of the least densest state in the Union for just two years qualifies you for VP, and she seems to believe a degree in journalism means she's more qualified than fully trained scientists in deciding whether polar bears are endangered; so frankly, it doesn't surprise me she'll also blow this out of all proportions.

 

 

 

If you, along with the neo-cons in America, prefer to be scared into a vote through misrepresentation of opinions, rather than look for a candidate with rational answers based on Planet Earth, then you go right ahead and vote for the Palin-McCain ticket (no typo). But don't sit here and wonder in four years time why America has lost its global authority because the world is sick to death of those neo-cons controlling our economic system and invading countries they have no right to invade, on the basis they're more "moral" than the rest of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, you're pretty much believing everything the mdeia in America says. 1)Obama does have terrorist connections, but no, that doesn't make him second in command, but should a president have anything to do with a terrorist, ever? 2) I'm pretty sure Obama recieved checks too, and what does abbortion have to do with checks? 3) Good [bleep]ing God, don't tell me no politician EVER has flip flopped? Get that [cabbage] outta your head, everyone politician has flip flopped on something. 4) Global Warming isn't a man made problem. ;) (And yes, I did a ton of reasearch for it, researched it for about 2 months, and from DATABASES, not google.) 5) Polar bears arent that endangered, and that's an extremely trivial item, you're just looking for any junk you can throw at her. Also, while yes, more experience would be necessary, her job will be VP. Also, she's not the first person to become vp (or at least nominated) with gthat amt of experience or less. Also, I'm not scared into a vote, I believe that Obama will bring the worlds greatest nation to the ground, with his half [wagon] schemes. And since when did America lost it's global authority? And uhhh I'm pretty sure Britain was in Iraq also. And oh, what was that thing, about the Boers, you know, where Britain invaded them, and made them slaves, for NO REASON. And I'm pretty sure our troops in Iraq aren't enslaving Iraqis. ;)

[Ginger_Warrior]

Dude, you're pretty much believing everything the mdeia in America says. 1)Obama does have terrorist connections, but no, that doesn't make him second in command, but should a president have anything to do with a terrorist, ever?

 

He's spoken to one domestic bomber years ago. There's no evidence to suggest he has any current affiliation, and there's certainly no evidence to suggest he himself was involved in terrorism, or even supported it. You really are clutching at straws for a reason to discredit him, instead of talking about what elections are meant to be about - issues. Frankly, it's not working. Obama's dominating the polls.

 

 

 

2) I'm pretty sure Obama recieved checks too, and what does abbortion have to do with checks?

 

Nothing, it was in a list...

 

 

 

3) Good [bleep] God, don't tell me no politician EVER has flip flopped? Get that [cabbage] outta your head, everyone politician has flip flopped on something.

 

There's flip-flopping, and there's using blatant contradictions to get yourself elected. You may argue Obama isn't fit for presidency because he's a "terrorist", I'm sure Palin, who's just one heartbeat away from Presidency herself if they get elected, isn't fit on the basis she's a clear liar.

 

 

 

The democracy which is so fundamental to America demands integrity. She's already shown she won't give it.

 

 

 

4) Global Warming isn't a man made problem. ;) (And yes, I did a ton of reasearch for it, researched it for about 2 months, and from DATABASES, not google.)

 

Where is this research then? There is a clear correlation between the IR and increases in the Earth's temperature, and I'm talking outside of cyclical weather patterns too. In fact, we can even explain it scientifically.

 

 

 

The causation of global warming really is only a debate amongst those who make it one just to be awkward. It's also noticeable these people are mostly religious. Whodafunkit?

 

 

 

And uhhh I'm pretty sure Britain was in Iraq also. And oh, what was that thing, about the Boers, you know, where Britain invaded them, and made them slaves, for NO REASON. And I'm pretty sure our troops in Iraq aren't enslaving Iraqis. ;)

 

I opposed the Iraq war. Not just now, after seeing the chaos, but I did at the time. I personally find it shameful that a Labour government would go to war unnecessarily, and not just that, but lie to the public in order to gain support for it. Several pupils at my school walked out of lessons to campaign against the war. You're really leaping into the unknown if you believe I, as a Brit, supported military action in Iraq.

 

 

 

As for the Boer war, again, not something I'm proud of. Although I don't actually recall any incidents of slavery in the Boer Wars, the situation in South Africa was dictated by those Wars. In fact, the way we built our Empire and kept a hold of it was disgusting. It was wholly unacceptable. Our past actions are exactly why we should be promoting equal race opportunities, to stem and reverse the racist attitudes that evolved through our stance towards Africa over the 18th to 20th centuries.

 

 

 

What has this got to do with Obama anyway, or was it just an attempt to discredit any British person who happens to support Obama?

 

 

 

If you think I support every action my country has ever made, you're wrong. Very wrong. Such nationalism has been proven to be foolish.

[dangeresque]

Some of what Obama says sort of contradicts itself. For example "I'm going to lower the price of Gas and take away our dependence on fossil fuels." That completely contradicts itself seeing as if you lower the price of gas (which has been dropping drastically), people will not use any alternative fuels because gas will be cheaper by far than it.

 

 

 

in my opinion, when Obama takes office, don't be suprised if nothing much happens, it would be par for every presidential nominee claiming change.

 

 

 

I do sorta wish our president could be a McCain-Obama hybrid sometimes :.

[megakiller32]

Some of what Obama says sort of contradicts itself. For example "I'm going to lower the price of Gas and take away our dependence on fossil fuels." That completely contradicts itself seeing as if you lower the price of gas (which has been dropping drastically), people will not use any alternative fuels because gas will be cheaper by far than it.

 

 

 

in my opinion, when Obama takes office, don't be suprised if nothing much happens, it would be par for every presidential nominee claiming change.

 

 

 

I do sorta wish our president could be a McCain-Obama hybrid sometimes :.

 

 

 

Then you need Frankforpresident.org !

 

He's like the PC guy in the Mac version of I'm a pc i'm a mac 8-)

[BlueLancer]

 

Not true.You are required to be Muslim by heritage,but if you believe in Christian ideology...I personally know one such person.

 

No, you either believe Jesus is the son of God, or you don't. It's as simple as. Religion is not hereditary, unless it's forced upon you, which doesn't strike me as particularly American anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heh.. How many years I kept trying to pound that into my fathers thick skull back when I was younger... Religion is not hereditary. But he kept insisting it's an inevitable part of who you are and will never go away. I know parents mean your best, but my old man was seriously lacking in the logic department sometimes.

 

 

 

You aren't inherently born a christian, muslim, wicca, jew, buddhist... You're born a human being. Choose whatever religion you want or none at all once you're old enough to make the decision.

[Kenshinjapan]

Some of what Obama says sort of contradicts itself. For example "I'm going to lower the price of Gas and take away our dependence on fossil fuels." That completely contradicts itself seeing as if you lower the price of gas (which has been dropping drastically), people will not use any alternative fuels because gas will be cheaper by far than it.

 

 

 

in my opinion, when Obama takes office, don't be suprised if nothing much happens, it would be par for every presidential nominee claiming change.

 

 

 

I do sorta wish our president could be a McCain-Obama hybrid sometimes :.

 

 

 

Then you need Frankforpresident.org !

 

He's like the PC guy in the Mac version of I'm a pc i'm a mac 8-)

 

 

 

"Hi, I'm a PC and I've been made into a stereotype."

[Deiophobus]

Actually, you are born as a Muslim in certain countries, if your parents are Muslim too. It's put on your birth certificate.

[AdamMonkey0]

My choice is Barak Obama because I think having a "Black" president would be a new step in ridding the world of intollerance to people who are different to you. The United States plays a major role in being a top power in the world, and they could really set an good example there.

 

It would have been nice for Barak to pick Hillary as his VP candidate as that would bring his achivement even higher. Eventhough, it was nice to see that Mrs. Clinton atleast achived a new record in the US' history.

 

I'm Canadian, and that's my prospective (Eventhough I can't vote)

[jackattack]

See, there's one thing I just can't get about this whole pastor thing.

 

 

 

They accuse Obama of having a dodgy pastor in a Christian church, and then you get some people going about saying he's a half-Muslim (like such a thing exists anyway). Note the bold: you can't really be both.

 

 

 

...Are these people unable to comprehend simple logic, or are they just plain stupid?

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody really does that, not even Sean Hannity, so I'd have to say anybody who does is stupid.

 

 

 

There's flip-flopping, and there's using blatant contradictions to get yourself elected. You may argue Obama isn't fit for presidency because he's a "terrorist", I'm sure Palin, who's just one heartbeat away from Presidency herself if they get elected, isn't fit on the basis she's a clear liar.

 

 

 

The democracy which is so fundamental to America demands integrity. She's already shown she won't give it.

 

 

 

 

I would hardly call the bridge to Ketchikan a flip flop. She wasn't running for Vp when she did it. There wasn't any political gain. The reason she changed her mind was because the cost went up like $100 million dollars. I remember I heard a guy on the radio talking about Mitt Romney. Romney said he could still remember the room he was in when he went from pro-choice to pro-life. That's not a flip flop. A real flip flop would be Obama saying that he would take public funding in the general election and going back on his word when it was clear that he would have an advantage. And then spreading lies about the RNC while doing it.

 

 

 

The causation of global warming really is only a debate amongst those who make it one just to be awkward. It's also noticeable these people are mostly religious. Whodafunkit?

 

 

 

Not really. No scientists say that the earth isn't warming or that man has no affect. There is however a lot of disagreement about how much of an affect humans can and have had.

[Dizzle229]

I picked Obama. Tbh, I really don't like any of the candidates, but it would be nice to have 1 black president before this country ends.

[warren211]

Some of what Obama says sort of contradicts itself. For example "I'm going to lower the price of Gas and take away our dependence on fossil fuels." That completely contradicts itself seeing as if you lower the price of gas (which has been dropping drastically), people will not use any alternative fuels because gas will be cheaper by far than it.

 

 

 

Don't forget, McCain has had his share of contradictions as well. In one speech during his campaign he says "our economy is strong" to motivate the people. 3 hours later in another city he says "our economy is at risk". The Daily Show had a blast making fun of that.

 

 

 

And dizzle, I have a habit of disliking anyone who actually votes for someone because of their race. It's nice and all to say "I lived during the era of the first Black President", but frankly it's ridiculous how many people will actually vote for him for his race. It might actually be a good thing the electoral college actually picks the president and not the popular vote. I'm hoping they might look deeper than his skin color.

[1_man_army]

There will be a minority who vote for him only based on his race and likewise there will be a minority who won't vote for him because of it. It all evens out.

[NoMoreDead]

Here's a little something I wrote. This should show how likely it is that Obama will win this election. I would be STUNNED if he lost this election, based off of what I calculated.

 

 

 

[hide=Obama's magic numbers]Election 08:

 

These situations assume the following:

 

-Obama wins all of the following states (All of these states have been won the by the Democratic nominee in the last three elections, save New Hampshire and Iowa, and he holds a substantial lead in all of them): Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Illinois, Vermont, New York, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, California, Oregon, Hawaii, and the District of Columbia.

 

-Yahoos Electoral College numbers are correct.

 

 

 

 

 

-If Obama holds Colorado + Nevada + New Mexico, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

-Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Missouri.

 

-Cannot lose New Hampshire, or else he will have to win one of the above states.

 

 

 

-If Obama wins Ohio, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

-Florida, Virginia, NC, Missouri, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico,

 

-If Obama loses New Hampshire, he must win one of the other above states.

 

 

 

-If Obama wins Florida, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

-Ohio, Virginia, NC, Missouri, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, New Hampshire, and even Maine, although it is extremely unlikely that McCain can take Maine.

 

 

 

-If Obama wins North Carolina, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

-Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Missouri, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, New Hampshire.

 

 

 

-If Obama wins Virginia and New Hampshire, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

-Ohio, Virginia, Florida, NC, Missouri, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico

 

-If Obama loses New Hampshire, he must win one of the other above states.

 

 

 

-If Obama wins Missouri, and New Hampshire, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

- Ohio, Virginia, Florida, NC, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico.

 

-If Obama loses New Hampshire, he must win one of the other above states.

 

 

 

-If Obama wins Colorado, New Hampshire and either New Mexico, or Nevada, he can lose all of the following and still win:

 

- Ohio, Virginia, Florida, NC, Missouri, NM/NV (Depending on which one he doesnt take)

 

- If Obama takes NV or NM, he doesnt have to hold New Hampshire.[/hide]

 

 

 

EDIT: You might not think it, but New Hampshire is CRITICAL.

[Aneron]

Sarah Palin spent $400,000 of Alaskan tax dollars on a pro-aerial hunting of wolves propaganda campaign.

 

 

 

For those of you who don't know what that is, you fly a low altitude prop aircraft over the tundra, and shoot wolves with shotguns. If you can't hit a wolf, you chase it until it collapses with exhaustion, land by it, and then shoot it.

 

 

 

She also had the state offer $150 for the front paw of any wolves killed in this manner.

 

 

 

There's tons of awful stuff out there, I just found this particularly terrible.

[jackattack]

That's not really terrible at all. You probably just saw that commercial. In reality they do that to make sure that there are plenty of moose and caribou for Alaskans and tourists to hunt. Wolves eat like a dozen moose a year each. That's a lot of extra "meese" if you will, to hunt each year. And the program is only over 9% of Alaska.

 

 

 

http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife ... 8810c.html

[magekillr]

Hmmm, Ginger I'm not so sure I agree with you about pandering and flip flopping with Obama. I mean, he has moved towards the center, successful politics demands it. However, to the extent that he's lying I do not know. I know he has good intentions, I don't think politics have "changed" him in any way, and quite honestly he's one of the smartest politicians I've seen in a LONG time. Hillary was someone that I thought of when I thought of good politicians, but I think even Obama may have surpassed her in the ability to campaign and politicize the national scene.

 

 

 

Anyway, Obama is a liar. He lies everyday, at every stump. Of course McCain does, and McCain does it more rampantly, with less tact. However, I won't deny that Obama is a HUGE liar.

 

 

 

He was very sensitive to the Palestinian cause until he got into federal politics and I really, really doubt he would do a 180 on this issue for any other reasons aside from the fact that he got into federal politics. I think he is someone who can actually do something about this situation without being influenced by one side over the other. He's the perfect man to solve this problem, or at least help solve it. You know he's friends with Khalidi, after all.

 

 

 

The reason she changed her mind was because the cost went up like $100 million dollars.

 

 

 

Is that why she took the pork money anyway?

 

 

 

Please, I won't give you that he flip-flopped on public financing either.

[magekillr]

Wow, this just got uglier and even more disgusting.

 

 

 

John McCain's supporters at his rallies have been yelling out, "Treason" "Terrorist" and "Kill him", and he's not only encouraging sordid behavior by going, "Who IS Barack Obama?", but he is allowing these people to do it:

 

 

 

"Barack Obama's assault on our supporters is insulting and unsurprising. These are the same people Obama called 'bitter' and attacked for 'clinging to guns' and faith. He fails to understand that people are angry at corrupt practices in Washington and Wall Street and he fails to understand that America's working families are not 'clinging' to anything other than the sincere hope that Washington will be reformed from top to bottom."

 

 

 

"Attacking our supporters is a new low for the campaign that's run more millions of dollars of negative ads than any other in history."

 

 

 

 

The "assault" that is being referred to is:

 

 

 

It's easy to rile up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States. The times are too serious. The challenges are too great. The American people aren't looking for someone who can divide this country - they're looking for someone who will lead it. We're in a serious crisis - now, more than ever, it is time to put country ahead of politics.