Sarah Palin

[Kaphias]

(snip)

 

 

 

I doubt a democrat would get control from the sound of Palin's 80% approval rating in Alaska.

 

I don't know where you pulled that number from, but when she was elected, she had 48% of the votes while the runner-up got 41% of the votes. Somehow, I doubt that that 48% went up to 80...

 

 

 

Your numbers are dead-on accurate (she indeed got elected by republicans with a 48% vote share compared to 41% from democrats), but approval rate is different from that. It means how high her post-election approval by the population is. And Palin is actually quite popular in Alaska even amongst democrats.

 

I realize that, but I still don't see how it could have of gone up to 80%. But maybe that comes from living in a Democratic community.

 

Or even more likely, more middle-aged men saw her photo and forgot all about their political alignment. Wouldn't surprise me, people actually were saying that's why they voted for her in the election.

[Lordjake]

edit: and @ above post...

 

Obama still has double the national experience of Palin, and his overall experience clearly surpasses hers. While she was winning a highschool basketball championship, Obama was graduating from Columbia University where he majored in political science (with a specialization in international relations.) - ty wikipedia.

 

 

 

Double the national experience? He was US senator for 3 years and for about half of that he spent campaigning.

 

Palin took office as governor in December 2006 = it's been approx 22 months.

 

Obama took office as senator* in January 2005 = it's been approx 44 months since then.

 

 

 

Time spent campaigning doesn't diminish experience in politics... if anything, it adds to it.

 

He's traveled across the country (and globe) since he announced his candidacy, meeting with and speaking to voters of all backgrounds.

[Faux]

Double the national experience? He was US senator for 3 years and for about half of that he spent campaigning.

 

Palin took office as governor in December 2006 = it's been approx 22 months.

 

Obama took office as governor in January 2005 = it's been approx 44 months since then.

 

 

 

Time spent campaigning doesn't diminish experience in politics... if anything, it adds to it.

 

He's traveled across the country (and globe) since he announced his candidacy, meeting with and speaking to voters of all backgrounds.

 

 

 

Do you know what an executive position is? It's different compared to a legislative one. Palin was a Mayor before being governor. The presidency is an executive position. Obama has ZERO executive experience.

[Barihawk]

I like how everyone is quick to cite Obama's tenure as a US Senator but he HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING worth note, is not a member of any major committee, and has missed more votes than participated. His constituents are very upset that they elected someone who is not representing them.

 

 

 

Palin on the other hand has experience in executive government, which is much more demanding and much more work than a Senator. Unlike a Senator she is expected to constantly make decisions that are indeed carried out and must actually work.

 

 

 

So please stop arguing a point if you have no idea what you are talking about. Obama is qualified, so is she.

[scn64]

edit: and @ above post...

 

Obama still has double the national experience of Palin, and his overall experience clearly surpasses hers. While she was winning a highschool basketball championship, Obama was graduating from Columbia University where he majored in political science (with a specialization in international relations.) - ty wikipedia.

 

 

 

Double the national experience? He was US senator for 3 years and for about half of that he spent campaigning.

 

Palin took office as governor in December 2006 = it's been approx 22 months.

 

Obama took office as governor in January 2005 = it's been approx 44 months since then.

 

 

 

Time spent campaigning doesn't diminish experience in politics... if anything, it adds to it.

 

He's traveled across the country (and globe) since he announced his candidacy, meeting with and speaking to voters of all backgrounds.

 

 

 

Obama was never a governor.

[wild_goat_14]

(snip)

 

 

 

I doubt a democrat would get control from the sound of Palin's 80% approval rating in Alaska.

 

I don't know where you pulled that number from, but when she was elected, she had 48% of the votes while the runner-up got 41% of the votes. Somehow, I doubt that that 48% went up to 80...

 

 

 

Your numbers are dead-on accurate (she indeed got elected by republicans with a 48% vote share compared to 41% from democrats), but approval rate is different from that. It means how high her post-election approval by the population is. And Palin is actually quite popular in Alaska even amongst democrats.

 

I realize that, but I still don't see how it could have of gone up to 80%. But maybe that comes from living in a Democratic community.

 

Or even more likely, more middle-aged men saw her photo and forgot all about their political alignment. Wouldn't surprise me, people actually were saying that's why they voted for her in the election.

 

 

 

The people on Fox News wouldn't shut up about it. Whenever I go over my grandpa's(daily, he lives across the street) I hear the political news. I'm positive it is 80%.

 

 

 

And about approval rating, that's right. I wouldn't vote for my current governor, but I think he is doing a good job.

[Lenticular_J]

If people could impeach a president he would be long gone, no other president is having so low approval rates. It's different from election vote share

 

I'd doubt you not knowing what impeachment means, but impeachment is bringing criminal or civil charges formally against a President.

 

 

 

Can't exactly do that to ol' Bushy, unless looking stupid is illegal.

[Lordjake]

Double the national experience? He was US senator for 3 years and for about half of that he spent campaigning.

 

Palin took office as governor in December 2006 = it's been approx 22 months.

 

Obama took office as governor in January 2005 = it's been approx 44 months since then.

 

 

 

Time spent campaigning doesn't diminish experience in politics... if anything, it adds to it.

 

He's traveled across the country (and globe) since he announced his candidacy, meeting with and speaking to voters of all backgrounds.

 

 

 

Do you know what an executive position is? It's different compared to a legislative one. Palin was a Mayor before being governor. The presidency is an executive position. Obama has ZERO executive experience.

 

Yes I know what an executive position is, and I was talking about national experience, if you couldn't tell from my posts. If you expected me to infer the discussion point of executive experience, it may have been smarter to phrase your post better.

 

 

 

 

 

Obama did serve in multiple boards of directors in Chicago (pop. ~3 million, btw), where he carried out many of the same duties that a governor would.

 

If it makes you feel better, sure, Palin has more national executive experience, if you want to call governing 670k people that.

 

 

 

(Tbh, I could probably get that much experience by playing SimCity for a few weeks. /sarcasm)

 

 

 

@ scn64, my bad - typo.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: as an attempt to bring some bipartisan peace to this topic, I will stop arguing for/against Obama and Palin.

[wild_goat_14]

If people could impeach a president he would be long gone, no other president is having so low approval rates. It's different from election vote share

 

I'd doubt you not knowing what impeachment means, but impeachment is bringing criminal or civil charges formally against a President.

 

 

 

Can't exactly do that to ol' Bushy, unless looking stupid is illegal.

 

 

 

...or murdering the English language.

 

 

 

NU-CLEAR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. NOT NU-CU-LAR.

[BlueLancer]

If people could impeach a president he would be long gone, no other president is having so low approval rates. It's different from election vote share

 

I'd doubt you not knowing what impeachment means, but impeachment is bringing criminal or civil charges formally against a President.

 

 

 

Can't exactly do that to ol' Bushy, unless looking stupid is illegal.

 

 

 

His approval rating isn't so low for no reason or dumb 'Bushism's... It's because a lot of people do think he's done illegal things.

 

 

 

Iraq war 'expenses'.. Other than the salaries of soldiers.. What expenses are we talking about? All the reconstruction, weapons, ammunition companies, aircraft companies like Sikorsky.. Are all american. Every time he asks for more war funding, he's really giving money to his fellow cronies especially in the arms industry. From the treasury of taxpayers.. At the expense of american lives in Iraq (plus unnecessary civilian deaths).

 

 

 

Wouldn't mind either Obama or McCain to succeed him. Just as long as he's gone.

[Barihawk]

And here we have the aforementioned "my candidate is better than yours" thinly veiled debate.

[Lenticular_J]

Err. Blue, think you're a bit off there.

 

 

 

The average cost of an M16 rifle (which is actually sort of phasing out these days) is about $2,000 USD. That's a plain and dry rifle. Most NATO rounds cost about thirteen cents each. 30 or so a clip. Most troops carry around four clips or so. Thousands of troops.

 

 

 

Humvees? About 125,000 dollars. 25 mpg typically, often drive hundreds of miles a day. Thousands of them in Iraq. Not to mention damage.

 

 

 

Airplanes and helicopters and tanks are in the tens of millions each, their fuel is intensely expensive, and the small amount of ammo they use adds up to a [cabbage]-load of money.

[BlueLancer]

And here we have the aforementioned "my candidate is better than yours" thinly veiled debate.

 

 

 

Meh.. I think both Biden and Palin would make o.k. vice presidents. It's just that people don't vote for VP's, they vote for presidents.

 

 

 

Biden is a senior politician with extensive foreign knowledge, and Palin has executive experience. Wouldn't mind voting for either, but the fact McCain's main "resource" is the fact he was a prisoner of war, doesn't really make him that much more credible... He and his entire family are military men. He's not dumb, far from it, but I don't think he has much merit.

 

 

 

(You could argue Obama doesn't really have any merit either, nor has he held any executive position, but his election would send a clear signal to other countries USA is still free and anyone can become the president)

 

 

 

 

The average cost of an M16 rifle (which is actually sort of phasing out these days) is about $2,000 USD. That's a plain and dry rifle. Most NATO rounds cost about thirteen cents each. 30 or so a clip. Most troops carry around four clips or so. Thousands of troops.

 

 

 

Humvees? About 125,000 dollars. 25 mpg typically, often drive hundreds of miles a day. Thousands of them in Iraq. Not to mention damage.

 

 

 

Airplanes and helicopters and tanks are in the tens of millions each, their fuel is intensely expensive, and the small amount of ammo they use adds up to a [cabbage]-load of money.

 

 

 

M16 rifles, NATO rounds, Humvees, MD500's, Blackhawks are all made by american companies. The money isn't leaving the country when congress approves another $50bn. spending money in Iraq; War "expenses" go to the pockets of those companies because the war keeps going on and on.

 

 

 

Nobody in Washington has anything to gain from fully withdrawing from Iraq, except losing money in epic proportions

[Faux]

Yes I know what an executive position is, and I was talking about national experience, if you couldn't tell from my posts. If you expected me to infer the discussion point of executive experience, it may have been smarter to phrase your post better.

 

 

 

 

 

Obama did serve in multiple boards of directors in Chicago (pop. ~3 million, btw), where he carried out many of the same duties that a governor would.

 

If it makes you feel better, sure, Palin has more national executive experience, if you want to call governing 670k people that.

 

 

 

(Tbh, I could probably get that much experience by playing SimCity for a few weeks. /sarcasm)

 

 

 

@ scn64, my bad - typo.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: as an attempt to bring some bipartisan peace to this topic, I will stop arguing for/against Obama and Palin.

 

 

 

Wow, you insult Palin for being a governor yet parade Obama being a member of a board.

 

 

 

You really should stop "arguing"

[wild_goat_14]

Meh.. I think both Biden and Palin would make o.k. vice presidents. It's just that people don't vote for VP's, they vote for presidents.

 

 

 

I actually think we are voting for both the 44th and the 45th presidents on the United States. If McCain wins(which I doubt) then there is a decent chance of him dying in office. If Obama wins, I hate to say it, but I just can't see him not getting shot before the end of one term. Our country as a whole is ready for a black President, but it doesn't take a nation to kill someone. It takes ONE white supremist to fire a gun.

[mrpez]

someone was talking about the iraq war, so i figure this article might provide some interesting discussion. an agreement has been reached that all american troops will withdraw from iraq by 2011, although washington says no final deal has been reached yet.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080825/ts_nm/iraq_dc

[Kaphias]

Meh.. I think both Biden and Palin would make o.k. vice presidents. It's just that people don't vote for VP's, they vote for presidents.

 

 

 

I actually think we are voting for both the 44th and the 45th presidents on the United States. If McCain wins(which I doubt) then there is a decent chance of him dying in office. If Obama wins, I hate to say it, but I just can't see him not getting shot before the end of one term. Our country as a whole is ready for a black President, but it doesn't take a nation to kill someone. It takes ONE white supremist to fire a gun.

 

Although I don't see the chances of it happening as likely as you do, I do believe that the risk of losing a president is higher than it has been in some time.

 

 

 

Someone earlier said that McCain won't die, he's in good health. I do believe Lincoln and Kennedy were in reasonable health at the time of their death...

[mrpez]

kennedy had many problems and was often on numerous medications. specifically, he had many back problems. i wont get into the details, but research it if you want.

 

 

 

some theories maintain that his erratic behavior regarding the bay of pigs invasion had to do with his medication.

 

 

 

you decide, though.

[Lordjake]

 

Wow, you insult Palin for being a governor yet parade Obama being a member of a board.

 

 

 

You really should stop "arguing"

 

I'm questioning her leadership ability gained from being a mayor of 6000 people, and governor of 670k, and from never leaving the United States (sans Canada).

 

And you wanted examples of Obama's executive experience, so I gave you some :thumbup:

 

 

 

I'm not saying Obama couldn't use more experience - who doesn't? - but if people are complaining about Obama's lack of experience, Palin should most definitely be in there too, since she'd be 2nd in command.

 

 

 

off-topic: this debate got me hooked on hendrix's "are you experienced?" all over again :P

[Kaphias]

kennedy had many problems and was often on numerous medications. specifically, he had many back problems. i wont get into the details, but research it if you want.

 

 

 

some theories maintain that his erratic behavior regarding the bay of pigs invasion had to do with his medication.

 

 

 

you decide, though.

 

Still, my point remains. Just because someone is in perfect health one day doesn't mean they won't be dead the next.

[Shiny]

I think Mccain could of chosen someone better. Alaska is a nice state though....Any of you heard of Helen Clark? She is like this chic, just worse. And she looks like a man. Liek wors thna tht germn chncllor. I reckon Obama, on the other hand had a great choice. To go alongside his supposed "Inexperience" he chose Biden, someone with heaps. A great Choice. Of course I can't vote, I won't vote and never will. I'm New Zealander.

 

 

 

And Lenticular, your on your 1999 post!!!

[NoMoreDead]

I like how everyone is quick to cite Obama's tenure as a US Senator but he HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING worth note, is not a member of any major committee, and has missed more votes than participated. His constituents are very upset that they elected someone who is not representing them.

 

 

 

Palin on the other hand has experience in executive government, which is much more demanding and much more work than a Senator. Unlike a Senator she is expected to constantly make decisions that are indeed carried out and must actually work.

 

 

 

So please stop arguing a point if you have no idea what you are talking about. Obama is qualified, so is she.

 

 

 

You should re-read your last sentence and apply it to yourself.

 

[hide=List of things worth noting]-"Obama voted in favor of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 and cosponsored the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act."

 

 

 

-"Later in 2007, Obama sponsored an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges.[64] He sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act" supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran's oil and gas industry, and co-sponsored legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism."

 

 

 

-"Obama also introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007."

 

 

 

-"In December 2006, President Bush signed into law the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," marking the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor."

 

 

 

-"Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs through December 2006."

 

 

 

-"He also became Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama has made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa."[/hide]

 

 

 

I'd also like to find out why you think that being a governor is SO much more demanding than being a senator. You know, John McCain is a senator as well, so why not treat his position the same way you treat Obama's - as a "less demanding" one?

 

 

 

Oh, and as for this: "His constituents are very upset that they elected someone who is not representing them."

 

 

 

I think you'll find that's not the case. The people love him:

 

 

 

"Nine months into his term, Obama won approval from 72 percent of Illinois voters in the survey. Ten percent said they disapprove of his performance and 18 percent said they had no opinion. Republicans give him a 57 percent approval rating."

 

 

 

Source: http://obama.senate.gov/news/051016-voters_give_oba/

[Barihawk]

And here we have the aforementioned "my candidate is better than yours" thinly veiled debate.

 

 

 

(You could argue Obama doesn't really have any merit either, nor has he held any executive position, but his election would send a clear signal to other countries USA is still free and anyone can become the president)

 

 

 

 

 

 

What message? That anyone with money can become President? Obama is not an average Joe. He may only have one house, but that one house is worth just as much as McCain's. He wears Armani suits and Rolex watches. He has made stupid political discussions. Sounds like just about every other President. Except he's black. If that negates the fact that he's a millionaire, then I have lost hope in Martin Luther King's quest for racial equality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NoMoreDead: Before you copy and paste, learn to read and understand politics. The committee assignments are bullcrap that look good on paper, and those are a handful of votes that mostly came before his Presidential bid. Take a look at Obama's voting record compared to McCain's or Clinton's. They voted in nearly all sessions while Obama missed more than half *during* his campaign. Don't forget his Party which instead of voting on a major bill, took a long vacation and shut down Congress.

 

 

 

As for approval ratings, they are a little skewed in his case of being a celebrity on the political scene. Instead you should look at those who don't approve of him. Palin's rating of people who think she is doing a bad job is minimal, nearly 3 percent, with 17 percent having no opinion.

 

 

 

Sorry to toot my horn, but I teach civics and hang around with political scientists who vote both ways. I know what I am talking about. One piece of advice to you: Don't take anything you read on the internet for granted or at face value. Shop around and approach something from multiple sources.

[Ginger_Warrior]

And here we have the aforementioned "my candidate is better than yours" thinly veiled debate.

 

 

 

(You could argue Obama doesn't really have any merit either, nor has he held any executive position, but his election would send a clear signal to other countries USA is still free and anyone can become the president)

 

 

 

 

 

 

What message? That anyone with money can become President? Obama is not an average Joe. He may only have one house, but that one house is worth just as much as McCain's. He wears Armani suits and Rolex watches. He has made stupid political discussions. Sounds like just about every other President. Except he's black. If that negates the fact that he's a millionaire, then I have lost hope in Martin Luther King's quest for racial equality.

 

I agree.

 

 

 

All this proves is that America (in fact, the Western world in general for that matter) doesn't mind black people... so long as they're rich. Maybe begrudgingly, but we'll accept them. Obama spent more on his nomination campaign than Hillary did - it was hardly the case that the black, poorer underdog defeated the white aristocrat.

 

 

 

Are you seriously saying that a black youth who's dropped out of high school, now flipping burgers in Louisiana has a chance of becoming President of the USA later on in life?

 

 

 

On average, blacks are still poorer than whites and therefore have less opportunity, including owning the keys to the White House. Obama being President won't change a damn thing about that.

[Barihawk]

Exactly, Ginger. The only way for true racial equality is empowerment in low-wealth communities and getting those kids to get a better education. Getting out of the welfare trap, teaching kids that they have the same rights as anyone else despite what they believe, and preventing crime and gang activity in those areas will eventually raise black and hispanic populations up to the same level as everyone else. But the problem is that neither the government's approach (let's take care of them and teach them it's alright to do what they want) and the poor outlook in these communities (I'm already stuck here, why strive to succeed) are helping matters.