This is my first time posting a big discussion-like thread of my own, so let me start off by saying I want no flaming of any sort towards me or anyone who posts on here. Let's keep it clean, folks.

 

 

 

Have you ever stopped to really think about skills and how Jagex has crafted the newer ones versus the older ones from classic? Today especially, something that has really been on my mind as far as the Runescape world is concerned is that Jagex has released some skills within the last 3 years that keep on getting more and more intricate as we go, yet they decide to keep the old classic skills such as mining, woodcutting and fishing pretty bland and the same as they have been for years. Why?

 

 

 

I think Jagex really needs to invest time in re-inventing some skills. Basically, what do you do with mining? You go up to a rock and mine it for 1 single ore, and then you wait for it to respawn. Yay. What do you do with Summoning? You gather Spirit Shards and Pouches, kill monsters for charms and get ahold of secondary ingredients, run them to an obelisk and make a familiar pouch that you can summon to aid you in battle and with skills. Sounds far more fascinating than mining, right?

 

 

 

Woddcutting. You chop a tree until you recieve logs from it which you can either burn, sell or make bows out of. That's pretty much it. Now let's take Construction. You build a house in one of many locations around the map, set up rooms which you build furniture and other nick-nacks in, which can most of the time aid you in other skills or give you advantages clear over players without them. You can build things like a dungeon wher you can hold big fights with all your friends, or have a games room or a combat ring and your house can be used to hold parties. Also your house can be used to show off wealth and also gives you a sense of a ground base in RS instead of feeling like your character just wanders around aimlessly without a home.

 

 

 

What I want you to do now is simple. Think. Think of how you would feel if Mining, Woodcutting, Fishing and of course everyone's favorite, firemaking, never existed, but all of a sudden were released into the game as new skills. What would your reaction be if on the front page of the website you see this:

 

 

 

New Skill: Woodcutting!

 

 

 

Players will be happy to know that the newest skill to hit the world of Runescape is that of a more lumbery sort: Woodcutting! You can now take up an axe and chop away at one of the many trees around the map to take hold of the logs they bear!

 

 

 

New Skill: Firemaking!

 

 

 

The newest Runescape skill hits the world today: Firemaking! Players will now be able to make use of those many logs they have gathered by lighting them on fire, which you can use to cook food on! But don't worry, Ranges will still remain the best way to cook food without burning it!

 

 

 

Basically, what I'm saying is, let's update the older skills which need much improvement. Think of what you could do with Mining. The possibilities are endless. Mining your own tunnels into the earth to dig up even rarer ore or treasures or monsters. This is just a small idea, of course, but we need something more exciting.

 

 

 

New skills are fun, but improved old skills could be even more fun if done correctly.

or not? I for one enjoy mining moreso than summoning and construction because for 1 I don't need any money to do it and 2nd it actually takes patience rather than getting 1-99 summoning in a day, which has been done -.- . Not saying gathering charms isn't time consuming, but honestly how different is summoning from rc? Replace altar with obelisk, add more xp per trip... Voila! Also updating a skill will probably make it easier to obtain... i.e. cook all or fletch all. Most people want the challenge and enjoy the nostalgia of the skills that have never changed

or not? I for one enjoy mining moreso than summoning and construction because for 1 I don't need any money to do it and 2nd it actually takes patience rather than getting 1-99 summoning in a day, which has been done -.- . Not saying gathering charms isn't time consuming, but honestly how different is summoning from rc? Replace altar with obelisk, add more xp per trip... Voila! Also updating a skill will probably make it easier to obtain... i.e. cook all or fletch all. Most people want the challenge and enjoy the nostalgia of the skills that have never changed

 

 

 

I think you missed the point. He's not saying that we need to get rid of how the skill works, we just need to add to it. I love mining as well, I personally find it to be very fun, but it does need more. That and other skills need to have other uses. A player with 99 mining should have a huge advantage over lower level players, not just the slightly faster gathering rate.

 

 

 

All skills should work like Summoning in that 99 should be hugely more advantageous than say, 50, and in more ways than one.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, I really like this thread already. There have surely been others like it, but I think that what you've written is pretty thought provoking. Bravo. =D>

I never suggested making a skill easier, and let's not be presumptuous and assume things for the sake of making this discussion one that holds water.

 

 

 

Also, 99 Summoning has not be achieved in 1 day. Maybe they made the pouches all in one day but I assure you, sir, they did not collect them that quickly. It probably took a month. And furthermore, why do you assume Summoning is only about MAKING the pouches? Last time I checked you actually use those pouches for useful abilities with familiars at your side. Summoning isn't like Runecrafting at all in that sense.

 

 

 

A skill can be challenging AND fun. They don't have to be monotonous. Although, you also understand I did not suggest we take away woodcutting as it is now, but improve upon it. If you wanted, you could still enjoy the nostalgia that comes with it while players who want more excitement could be given something else.

agreed. i love mining, but hate how slow it takes to level. im not asking for jagex to make it insanely fast (like 150k per hr), but like why not have more methods of training? the old point at a rock and click gets old and really boring.

Also, 99 Summoning has not be achieved in 1 day. Maybe they made the pouches all in one day but I assure you, sir, they did not collect them that quickly. It probably took a month. And furthermore, why do you assume Summoning is only about MAKING the pouches? Last time I checked you actually use those pouches for useful abilities with familiars at your side. Summoning isn't like Runecrafting at all in that sense.

 

 

 

And you use the runes to cast spells? I'm just saying looking at Jagex's record the skills have a good chance of being nerfed with an update. I don't want to take that chance :P

If wc/fm would be released about now, it would probably be better. Jagex has a lot of things to work on already, but these skills are the basics of skills imo- wc gives logs which are used for many things- runescape would be really WEIRD without (choppable) trees. mining gives ores which are pretty important, and though runescape would lack several skills without the mining skill, I can picture runescape with no mining rocks. Technically if they revamp the skills in a (strange) way, runescape economy would be ruined- players would be making rune platebodies easier than a bronze dagger- making it's price go low- and chopping magic trees for more: fletching xp; fm xp; money (eeeeeek!); etc.

 

However, if this is not what you mean, my "good" version of an update is that: wc trees actually have an animation of growing upwards by runescapes' magics; your axe actaully touching the tree when wcing, possible even leaving scars.

Also, 99 Summoning has not be achieved in 1 day. Maybe they made the pouches all in one day but I assure you, sir, they did not collect them that quickly. It probably took a month. And furthermore, why do you assume Summoning is only about MAKING the pouches? Last time I checked you actually use those pouches for useful abilities with familiars at your side. Summoning isn't like Runecrafting at all in that sense.

 

 

 

And you use the runes to cast spells? I'm just saying looking at Jagex's record the skills have a good chance of being nerfed with an update. I don't want to take that chance :P

 

 

 

Which skills have a chance of being nerfed? Summoning? No. It won't be. if anything it still needs more added to it.

 

 

 

Moreso on the discussion of runes being used for mage, yes, and actually, I also never recalled myself EVER saying Runecrafting was monotonous. In fact, I roughly remember only really naming 4 skills I feel need re-inventing, didn't I?

 

 

 

However, it would be a lie to say Summoning is as monotonous as RC. It's not even close. The familiars add an extra character to your character, which act not only as an aid but even as a pet in a sense. It brings out just a bit more excitement to see a familiar in combat than to watch someone mage and think, "Oh wow! They must've MADE those runes to do that magic with! How exciting!"

 

 

 

See what I'm getting at?

 

 

 

To onusasdad, that isn't really what I meant. What I was saying was what if they were released just as they are now, but AFTER the release of more intricate and exciting skills like summoning and construction. Knowing that Jagex is more capable of better material for the game than the current wc/fm/fishing/mining, would you be satisfied if they released them today exactly as they are with such deeper skills already in existance?

If wc/fm would be released about now, it would probably be better. Jagex has a lot of things to work on already, but these skills are the basics of skills imo- wc gives logs which are used for many things- runescape would be really WEIRD without (choppable) trees. mining gives ores which are pretty important, and though runescape would lack several skills without the mining skill, I can picture runescape with no mining rocks. Technically if they revamp the skills in a (strange) way, runescape economy would be ruined- players would be making rune platebodies easier than a bronze dagger- making it's price go low- and chopping magic trees for more: fletching xp; fm xp; money (eeeeeek!); etc.

 

However, if this is not what you mean, my "good" version of an update is that: wc trees actually have an animation of growing upwards by runescapes' magics; your axe actaully touching the tree when wcing, possible even leaving scars.

 

 

 

The point wasn't that people could make current products such as rune platebodies more easily, it was that we need MORE to certain skills than just the basic "click on tree... log. Click on tree... log."

If wc/fm would be released about now, it would probably be better. Jagex has a lot of things to work on already, but these skills are the basics of skills imo- wc gives logs which are used for many things- runescape would be really WEIRD without (choppable) trees. mining gives ores which are pretty important, and though runescape would lack several skills without the mining skill, I can picture runescape with no mining rocks. Technically if they revamp the skills in a (strange) way, runescape economy would be ruined- players would be making rune platebodies easier than a bronze dagger- making it's price go low- and chopping magic trees for more: fletching xp; fm xp; money (eeeeeek!); etc.

 

However, if this is not what you mean, my "good" version of an update is that: wc trees actually have an animation of growing upwards by runescapes' magics; your axe actaully touching the tree when wcing, possible even leaving scars.

 

 

 

The point wasn't that people could make current products such as rune platebodies more easily, it was that we need MORE to certain skills than just the basic "click on tree... log. Click on tree... log."

 

 

 

I doubt an update by that way's ever gonna happen.

 

 

 

 

 

NEW UPDATE:

 

now you must click on your axe, drag it onto the tree you wish to chop, and quickly swing it back and forth to chop trees. [/sarcasm]

 

 

 

tbh, I'd quit runescape if an update by that pov would happen.

Nuuuuuuu, neva! Change is evil! ... joking

 

 

 

Srsly I think that it's just plain lazyness from Jagex's part. They figured that making new stuff would attract more new members than fixing what's already there.

Well, the older skills aren't as sophisticated as the newer ones... but we still need them. Mining, woodcutting, fishing... they're those essential skills that maintain influx of raw material in the game. You can make money with them. In contrary to skills like construction and summoning (well, you could sell the pouches.. but still, usually they cost more to make). Thus, we are rewarded for those skills. Raw material grinding is a big part of the game and some people actually enjoy that.

 

 

 

And how do you want to upgrade them? It's not very easy to make a skill such as woodcutting suddenly very appealing because of the variety. It will remain a simple action of cutting the tree. If Jagex were to start over with Runescape, the skills would probably have looked different. But now that we have them, they play an essential role in the game, that makes them hard to be changed in a way to make them look like the skills with a lot of variety in them, like summoning.

In agreement with Bauke:

 

 

 

I think the skills that people seem to want updated are the gathering skills (woodcutting, mining, and fishing). These are basic skills that many other skills and items are based off of.

 

 

 

There really isn't a whole lot more that you can add to a skill whose whole point is to collect something from a source. This goes for non-skill activities, too, like filling up buckets with water.

 

 

 

Simply put, gathering of any type is going to be monotonous and boring, but there isn't any huge way of getting around that. Therefore, it is unfair to compare i.e. mining with a skill like summoning, where you are utilizing and crafting items from other raw materials, which have already been (monotonously) collected. If there were a skill simply for collecting charms, it would be the most boring ever, but what charms are used for is where the fun comes in.

Also, 99 Summoning has not be achieved in 1 day. Maybe they made the pouches all in one day but I assure you, sir, they did not collect them that quickly. It probably took a month. And furthermore, why do you assume Summoning is only about MAKING the pouches? Last time I checked you actually use those pouches for useful abilities with familiars at your side. Summoning isn't like Runecrafting at all in that sense.

 

 

 

And you use the runes to cast spells? I'm just saying looking at Jagex's record the skills have a good chance of being nerfed with an update. I don't want to take that chance :P

 

 

 

Which skills have a chance of being nerfed? Summoning? No. It won't be. if anything it still needs more added to it.

 

 

 

However, it would be a lie to say Summoning is as monotonous as RC. It's not even close. The familiars add an extra character to your character, which act not only as an aid but even as a pet in a sense. It brings out just a bit more excitement to see a familiar in combat than to watch someone mage and think, "Oh wow! They must've MADE those runes to do that magic with! How exciting!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

The skills that have a chance of being nerfed with an update are the "monotonous" ones you listed.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that you said RC was boring. I'm saying that newer updates aren't that "exciting" in my opinion. The only reason Jagex released summoning and construction was to deplete money out of the game because too much was being circulated.

 

 

 

Tell me the difference between making the familiar pouches and making runes? Pouches turn into familiar pouches... rune ess turns into runes. You use the familiar pouches to summon creatures... you use the runes to cast spells. I don't find myself saying "Oh wow! They must've MADE those pouches to do that summoning with! How exciting!"

 

 

 

I'm not against your idea. I'm against how Jagex would use it.

Also, 99 Summoning has not be achieved in 1 day. Maybe they made the pouches all in one day but I assure you, sir, they did not collect them that quickly. It probably took a month. And furthermore, why do you assume Summoning is only about MAKING the pouches? Last time I checked you actually use those pouches for useful abilities with familiars at your side. Summoning isn't like Runecrafting at all in that sense.

 

 

 

And you use the runes to cast spells? I'm just saying looking at Jagex's record the skills have a good chance of being nerfed with an update. I don't want to take that chance :P

 

 

 

Which skills have a chance of being nerfed? Summoning? No. It won't be. if anything it still needs more added to it.

 

 

 

However, it would be a lie to say Summoning is as monotonous as RC. It's not even close. The familiars add an extra character to your character, which act not only as an aid but even as a pet in a sense. It brings out just a bit more excitement to see a familiar in combat than to watch someone mage and think, "Oh wow! They must've MADE those runes to do that magic with! How exciting!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

The skills that have a chance of being nerfed with an update are the "monotonous" ones you listed.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that you said RC was boring. I'm saying that newer updates aren't that "exciting" in my opinion. The only reason Jagex released summoning and construction was to deplete money out of the game because too much was being circulated.

 

 

 

Tell me the difference between making the familiar pouches and making runes? Pouches turn into familiar pouches... rune ess turns into runes. You use the familiar pouches to summon creatures... you use the runes to cast spells. I don't find myself saying "Oh wow! They must've MADE those pouches to do that summoning with! How exciting!"

 

 

 

I'm not against your idea. I'm against how Jagex would use it.

 

 

 

And again, all you're doing is being presumptuous. You don't really know what Jagex would do if they rehauled the classic skills. They are in need of revamping. They may be basic gathering skills but they have more potential. I mean, take a look at my Archaeology Skill Guide. It COULD just be a basic "gathering rocks and fossils" skill but instead I made it actually USEFUL for aiding you in skills and for gaining money. My skill idea works because of the versatality, something the older skills lack.

 

 

 

So I guess what I'm saying, especially in response to what Bauke said is, if you're happy with your game being average rate and allow it to be just "basic," then fine. I, personally, and I'm sure it isn't just me, think the skills need some excitement factor added to them. They're just plain outdated now.

all they need to do to make me happy is make mining like fishing and woodcutting. Have an ore node you click on and the ore pops into your inventory. The one rock one ore thing makes mining as fun as a trip to the dentist.

Well they can get a bit exciting. At least the older skills have minigames, right? Jungle clean up makes woodcutting less bland. Things like Shade burning spice up firemaking and such.

 

 

 

Although it does seem like those older skills need updates in content.

In the near future we will be seeing not only better methods to train collection skills, but also see improvements on the older production skills. It will involve the concept of combination skills though:

 

 

 

Combat - Slayer beasts that require a non-combat skill to be at a certain level. So older monsters get revamped and new monsters get released that play off your other skills: Fire based monsters are easier to attack, defend, damage if you have higher firemaking/smithing. Same goes with Stone/Metal based monsters (mining/smithing) or water based creatures (fishing). Some of these monsters WILL require higher skills to attack.

 

 

 

Production - Jagex messed up big time when it gave crafters the ability to make level 70 armor with only one skill (black dragonhide), while smithers could only make rune armor (level 40). Imagine being able to make Granite armor (level 50 armor) if your smithing and crafting are above 80 (at 99/99 you can make granite platebody). Obsidian armor (level 60 armor) if your smithing, crafting, firemaking and mining are all above 80 (99 in all allows you to make Obsidian Platebodies). These will not be shared tasks like mining/smithing is in making regular armor. You have to have the skills.

 

 

 

Gathering - Imagine the ability to gather purer forms of ore if you have other skills to make it possible? With higher crafting (say at 40 to 85), you can collect pure iron that always smelts pure. However, with higher smithing this same ore smelts into steel without coal. With pure mithril, and good woodcutting and firemaking, you can smelt mithril. Etc, etc. Imagine using combat to fish better (using harpoon). Even now you see Jagex combined firemaking and woodcutting into one item.

 

 

 

There's plenty of life in the older skills. The problem will be that since it's an older skill many, many players are already high up in ability. If Jagex does a major revamp, then players will immediately benefit. That means serious balance issues.

 

 

 

Combination skills was the highest ranked player suggestion in the High Level Suggestion sticky that Mod Craddock was moderating last year. Considering suggestions in that thread were implemented (God Wars dungeon being one of them), it is possible Jagex is implementing combination skills. If that's the case, it may be time to get 99 in more skills than just combat.

You're also being presumptuous that Jagex will be successful with this. Most people will only train a skill to get the level or to get money. No matter how much of an assortment you have for a skill, players are always going to stray to only a handful of specific methods.

Yes, this is a thought provoking topic, but I have to say this: there is no need to make something more complicated if it was there to be used for something else.

 

 

 

Take a look at mining and woodcutting. They were made to extract resources. What's the use of making it more complicated then that?

In the near future we will be seeing not only better methods to train collection skills, but also see improvements on the older production skills. It will involve the concept of combination skills though:

 

 

 

Combat - Slayer beasts that require a non-combat skill to be at a certain level. So older monsters get revamped and new monsters get released that play off your other skills: Fire based monsters are easier to attack, defend, damage if you have higher firemaking/smithing. Same goes with Stone/Metal based monsters (mining/smithing) or water based creatures (fishing). Some of these monsters WILL require higher skills to attack.

 

 

 

Production - Jagex messed up big time when it gave crafters the ability to make level 70 armor with only one skill (black dragonhide), while smithers could only make rune armor (level 40). Imagine being able to make Granite armor (level 50 armor) if your smithing and crafting are above 80 (at 99/99 you can make granite platebody). Obsidian armor (level 60 armor) if your smithing, crafting, firemaking and mining are all above 80 (99 in all allows you to make Obsidian Platebodies). These will not be shared tasks like mining/smithing is in making regular armor. You have to have the skills.

 

 

 

Gathering - Imagine the ability to gather purer forms of ore if you have other skills to make it possible? With higher crafting (say at 40 to 85), you can collect pure iron that always smelts pure. However, with higher smithing this same ore smelts into steel without coal. With pure mithril, and good woodcutting and firemaking, you can smelt mithril. Etc, etc. Imagine using combat to fish better (using harpoon). Even now you see Jagex combined firemaking and woodcutting into one item.

 

 

 

There's plenty of life in the older skills. The problem will be that since it's an older skill many, many players are already high up in ability. If Jagex does a major revamp, then players will immediately benefit. That means serious balance issues.

 

 

 

Combination skills was the highest ranked player suggestion in the High Level Suggestion sticky that Mod Craddock was moderating last year. Considering suggestions in that thread were implemented (God Wars dungeon being one of them), it is possible Jagex is implementing combination skills. If that's the case, it may be time to get 99 in more skills than just combat.

 

 

 

I for one would love to see this implemented. It would bring an entirely new degree to the game.

I dont think redoing a skill is the right way to go but rather adding new, more complex features. There are plenty of people who have been around for years that like the old skills just the way they are. However jagex seems to be doing a form of what you are saying by adding mini games to liven up skills a bit more, even if not all of them were very useful.

They have reinvented many older skills already, think about it.

 

 

 

Woodcutting: That jungle cutting minigame, you chop things & random events occur, you fix a fence with sticks you cut, you're rewarded with access to highly rewarding trees or currency to buy some simple things.

 

 

 

Mage: Mage training arena, various different games that require a little thought, bunch of different rewards that can be valuable.

 

 

 

Firemaking: Beacon Lighting, Run from beacon to beacon lighting them in remote and exciting locations. Decent xp and you can use cheap logs.

 

 

 

Mining: Star falling minigame, run around trying to be the first to find a fallen star and then mine it with many other players for some cash and decent xp.

 

 

 

Runecrafting: The RC guild gives some xp, lots of ess, plus the tabs are a new way to get to the altars.

 

 

 

Smithing: Group smithing at the Blast Furnance

 

 

 

I can probably go on if I think about it, but yea they all flopped because most players want simple one click, afkable, big reward, junk.

Well, think of crafting. That's the most versatile skill and it is from mid-classic. Hunter, on the other hand, is fairly bland, with very few actual benefits. Without chinchompas, there would be none except for the spottier cape and silence gloves.

Hm interesting way you put it there. Maybe some older skills are in need of some updates. I sure wouldn't be too thrilled if firemaking just came out!