Ranging in PVP using the wilderness ditch

[brando13a]

Correct, not all areas are fair to all people. This isnt a problem. Cow pens, a favorite example, arent "fair" for melee'ers, however they still have a chance. Thus the term advantage, an advantage doesnt completely guarantee a win, it just makes the chances better. So you're right, not all areas should be totally equal to everyone, although it would make the whole or runescape a pretty interesting place because everyone would have things to use to their advantage..

 

 

 

But please, give me one of these "poisons". I've rebuted most, if not all of the arguments for keeping this in the game. some people said jagex gave it to rangers as a gift, that's plainly wrong, as this whole discussion is about an accidental oversight. Jagex almost definitly did not impliment the wilderness ditch, before the removal of the wilderness, in preparation to give rangers an advantage at the release of pvp worlds -.-

 

 

 

So please, give me a nice numbered list of points for me to rebute, it would be much appreciated, considering I havnt commented on anything anyone else has said in this topic ;)

 

 

 

So fill it out, and i'll get right on it.

[Obtaurian]

Correct, not all areas are fair to all people. This isnt a problem. Cow pens, a favorite example, arent "fair" for melee'ers, however they still have a chance. Thus the term advantage, an advantage doesnt completely guarantee a win, it just makes the chances better. So you're right, not all areas should be totally equal to everyone, although it would make the whole or runescape a pretty interesting place because everyone would have things to use to their advantage..

 

 

 

But please, give me one of these "poisons". I've rebuted most, if not all of the arguments for keeping this in the game. some people said jagex gave it to rangers as a gift, that's plainly wrong, as this whole discussion is about an accidental oversight. Jagex almost definitly did not impliment the wilderness ditch, before the removal of the wilderness, in preparation to give rangers an advantage at the release of pvp worlds -.-

 

 

 

So please, give me a nice numbered list of points for me to rebute, it would be much appreciated, considering I havnt commented on anything anyone else has said in this topic ;)

 

 

 

So fill it out, and i'll get right on it.

 

 

 

I don't feel the need to go over the topic and gather points for you to argue. It's all there. ;)

 

 

 

I see your point. This isn't just an advantage, it makes warriors completely moot near the ditch. However, there are plenty of places where the warrior COULD run around and TRY to win the fight, but what are the chances? With the ditch, the chances are nil for a single warrior. With say, cow pens, Lletya, etc, the chances are NEARLY zero. They're close enough to zero to make them just as nonexistent as with the ditch.

[brando13a]

True enough that those places dont give warriors much of a shot, but at least they have a shot. My whole reason for saying those places are better, is because they themselves arent all that fair to start with, and by comparison are a great deal to a warrior, when talking about the ditch.

 

 

 

There's not much else to say, my point has been made and I'm glad at least one person understands it.

[Soma2035]

Wrong suma, ranged is assumed to be allowed unless specifically blocked. When Jagex implements anything, any new area, open space is open, and traversable by walking, and projectiles, there are no restrictions on the space. This only means that they didnt think to block ranged in that specific area, not that they intended for range to work.

 

 

 

It's a difficult concept i know, but its the same as you giving someone a piece of paper. they may choose to write on it, or they may choose to make a paper airplane out of it, even if you're intent was for them to write on it.

 

 

 

In this manner, you didnt specifically say they couldnt make a paper airplane, but it is assumed that they can.

 

 

 

Good job. You've not only proved you can't spell a 4 letter name correctly, but you also have successfully showed the entire forum you don't know how coding works.

 

 

 

It is NOT a piece of paper. It's more along the lines of,

 

 

 

Does this ditch obstruct attacks?

 

A) Yes, it can.

 

B) No, it can not.

 

 

 

Now, they can have a "default" answer, but if that's the case, that needs to be coded in as well. So either in coding the default answer as B (Unlikely, because a large majority of objects seem to fall under category A) , or by choosing "B) No, it can not", they are CHOOSING to let you attack over it.

 

 

 

Learn to program before making such arguments, instead of pulling them out of your [wagon].

[SwreeTak]

If you take out the ditch ability, you might as well stop ALL safespots.

 

 

 

Fences, cowpens, and many more things are ALL rangeable over, and you still have to use a special method to negate them, like a gate or running around, so, its all the same thing.

 

 

 

Quit whining, and Pkay.

 

 

 

Agree. Just keep away from the wildy ditch if you don't want to find a ranger using this tactic.

[brando13a]

sorry SOMA, (an honest mistake on my part, settle down... you've just shown you've got serious temperment issues :lol: )

 

 

 

As for coding, true, I'm no expert, But I can make the assumption that they dont code everything ground up everysingle time, this would be inefficient and costly. What I do know about programming, especially in games like this, is that ground and open space are generally precoded, and a simple click and drag function to implement. After which, they augment depths and make their obstacles.

 

 

 

What I'm almost sure they dont do, is go through and tick off block range before assuming that you CAN range. All allowing something says to me is that they didnt block it, that doesnt mean they intended for things to be the way they are.

 

 

 

As a base layout for new areas, the ground is precoded, because all the ground is the same from a coding standpoint. After they shape the area, they then go in and design the details, such as textures, bumps, hills, trees rocks etc. most of these objects are also precoded, so they dont have to code how characters react when a tree is in their way every time they add a new tree. By you're statement, you assume that they code everything from scratch each time they add something, which clearly shows you dont know how an end product game is coded and produced.

 

 

 

So no, they dont go through every tile of ground and code in whether you can range over it or not, they have default ground that they spread out, and it is assumed as "open" or "free" space, where all actions are open, such as walking and for that matter ranging. you cant range over an area you cant walk on, with the exception of fences, which are coded as a default to allow ranged. This means that Jagex didnt worry about their default programming when they implemented the ditch. This means that right now, the fact rangers can abuse this area is in fact a bug, as it is misuse of programming, that they overlooked.

[Obtaurian]

sorry SOMA, (an honest mistake on my part, settle down... you've just shown you've got serious temperment issues :lol: )

 

 

 

As for coding, true, I'm no expert, But I can make the assumption that they dont code everything ground up everysingle time, this would be inefficient and costly. What I do know about programming, especially in games like this, is that ground and open space are generally precoded, and a simple click and drag function to implement. After which, they augment depths and make their obstacles.

 

 

 

What I'm almost sure they dont do, is go through and tick off block range before assuming that you CAN range. All allowing something says to me is that they didnt block it, that doesnt mean they intended for things to be the way they are.

 

 

 

As a base layout for new areas, the ground is precoded, because all the ground is the same from a coding standpoint. After they shape the area, they then go in and design the details, such as textures, bumps, hills, trees rocks etc. most of these objects are also precoded, so they dont have to code how characters react when a tree is in their way every time they add a new tree. By you're statement, you assume that they code everything from scratch each time they add something, which clearly shows you dont know how an end product game is coded and produced.

 

 

 

So no, they dont go through every tile of ground and code in whether you can range over it or not, they have default ground that they spread out, and it is assumed as "open" or "free" space, where all actions are open, such as walking and for that matter ranging. you cant range over an area you cant walk on, with the exception of fences, which are coded as a default to allow ranged. This means that Jagex didnt worry about their default programming when they implemented the ditch. This means that right now, the fact rangers can abuse this area is in fact a bug, as it is misuse of programming, that they overlooked.

 

 

 

So, we're left with two questions:

 

 

 

1) Did Jagex implement the ditch in full awareness that a player could range over it?

 

 

 

2) Is the ditch such a problem to PvP that it needs to be changed?

 

 

 

My opinion is yes and no, respectively.

[Soma2035]

What I'm almost sure they dont do, is go through and tick off block range before assuming that you CAN range. All allowing something says to me is that they didnt block it, that doesnt mean they intended for things to be the way they are.

 

 

 

Which is where you're wrong. When creating a new object, they quite literally have to make a decision one way or the other.

 

 

 

Going off your paper airplane analogy, a piece of paper is rectangular in shape. This particular airplane requires a square sheet of paper.

 

 

 

Either you're slicing off a piece to make it a square (Not blocking obstacles), or you're slicing off the piece, then folding it into the airplane. If you leave it as a normal sheet of paper, the program crashes.

 

 

 

Now, to save time, Jagex could ask the person providing the said sheet of paper to cut it into a square shape first. However, if they choose to do that, then by definition they are stating "All objects obstruct range attacks unless otherwise stated," or, "All objects do not obstruct range attacks unless otherwise stated." If it's the former case, then they explicitly changed it so that range attacks are not obstructed. If it's the latter, then they are the ones who intentionally told the game to set it to that.

 

 

 

I can't say for a fact that Jagex intended this to be used as a ranger's safespot. But I'm sure that at least half, if not more of our activities in Runescape were not "intended" from the start. They did however intend to allow attacks to go over it, at one point or another. Therefore, it is not a bug. It is also not "game-breaking", seeing as it's easily avoided with a multitude of methods, and it's not unlike features in many, many other parts of Runescape.

 

 

 

TL,DR Version: It's not a bug, and it's not a game breaking abuse. No reason to fix it.

[brando13a]

Ok, I think I've pinpointed why you dont see the problem. You're only looking at this as a fence. true, it acts as a fence.

 

 

 

But, you also have to consider that it not only provides a fence, but also gives you the ability to jump the fence. The broken part isnt that you can shoot arrows over it, the broken part is that you can repeatedly jump back and forth, wilst shooting arrows. So yes it is a bug, you abuse the fact that you can jump an obstacle repeatedly while attacking, and in turn take no damage, and have no risk of dieing.

 

 

 

There are similar area's in runescape, such as any fence with one of those small jump options, such as the one on the fence surrounding the cabbage patch. This could effectively be used in the same fashion, but its a very select area, the ditch covers a very large, and very popular area.

 

 

 

The fact that you choose to go back to my admittedly poor analogy, just shows that I was at least partially correct in my logical assumptions of how jagex goes about coding.

 

 

 

1: the ditch was implemented before the wilderness was removed (pking wise)

 

2: It remained in place due to the danger of revenants in the wilderness

 

3: it was coded as a fence, that you have to click to jump.

 

3a:(it has the same coding as the jumpable section of fence in the cabbage patch, just a different animation, and addition of a toggleable warning)

 

3b: as it was coded as a fence, it was coded to allow ranged attacks. Whether jagex took this into account or not is debateable, as when it was implemented, there was litterally no reason to range over it. the only fighting took place on one side of the ditch.

 

4: Over ONE YEAR LATER pvp worlds was released.

 

 

 

The ditch was implemented before PvP worlds was ever even thought of, so no, jagex DIDNT intend for this to be a ranged safe spot.

 

 

 

How you can say that Jagex specifically gave this to rangers as a bonus to use in pvp worlds is beyond me. It was LEFT in the game during the release of pvp worlds, as was the rest of runescape. It was not given to rangers for the specific use of ranging and then abusing the jump function to make themselves unhittable by melee. I know this because it was added before rangers could ever attack a melee'er over the ditch. saying that it's current use in pvp worlds is its intended use is naive and stupid.

 

 

 

It's use WAS to prevent luring/wandering into the wilderness. Currently, there is no INTENDED FUNCTION left on pvp worlds for the ditch. All it does is provide rangers with a blatantly unfair advantage over melee.

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I dont care if jagex does anything or not. I dont care that rangers use the ditch. I dont care that melee has been snuffed from the edge of the wilderness. The only reason I'm debating this is because it's obviously not right, and saying it is is a plain lie. I know what happens there, I'm smart enough to figure out not to melee there, but I'd still like to get the point across that this isnt a balanced game function, nor is it the intended use.

[Madmanpur3]

Going off your logic, it's a bug to deposit willow logs in the BA deposit box, since that was intended to deposit stuff you couldn't take into BA, NOT to act as a bank for willow logs.

 

 

 

Another example, the stepping stones to get to the lighthouse, I can't say for sure as I haven't tested, but I'd be willing to bet they act similar to the wilderness ditch.

 

 

 

It's also a bug to drop your expensive item when you're about to die and then run back to get it because you ran out of prayer, it was never their intention that you keep your items if you run out of prayer and are skulled...

 

 

 

Your "intention" argument is seriously flawed.

 

 

 

Anyways, it's clear that they intended for projectiles to be allowed over the ditch (so players could kill the skeletons or whatever on the other side), as well as players being able to jump from one side to the other without restriction (because players would inevitably complain like hell and they'd have to change it anyways).

 

 

 

There is no bug, thus no bug abusing going on...however, they may decide to change it if they wish (which they won't) but that in itself wouldn't make it a bug.

[brando13a]

You cant use willow logs in BA can you?

 

 

 

Again, the stepping stones of the lighthouse were never intended for combat, But i'd assume they work like many agility obstacles in that you cant shoot over them. however if they do act like the ditch, then yes that could be a problem... though not a very big one considering the popularity of pking at the lighthouse...

 

 

 

and it may not be a bug to be able to drop your expensive items before you die, but I know for a fact Jagex doesnt want you doing it. If they can code something to stop you, I can guarantee they'll implement a fix, so no its not a bug persay, as much as it is a douche move to avoid loosing anything... If you're afraid to loose your items dont pk :roll:

 

 

 

My intentions argument isnt as flawed as you try to say it is. Sorry but all of your examples are pretty weak, if you abuse something in a way jagex didnt intend that makes it a bug. remember the knife bug which allowed you deal massive damage? that was using something in a way jagex didnt intend aka- A BUG!

 

Or the falador massacre? caused by what? people using houses in a way jagex didnt intend? using what? A BUG!

 

 

 

And no, it isnt clear that they intended for people to use it as they are, it was implemented over a year before anyone could even try, Jagex had no idea it would be used like this, as they had no plans of implementing pvp worlds at the time they released the ditch! Jumping back and forth with no penalty or restriction is a problem, and imbalance in gameplay.

 

 

 

There is a bug, and bug abuse happening. Jagex may change it if they deem it a worthy problem for them to fix, and the fact that they'd fix it would mean something is wrong, probably A BUG.

 

 

 

As I've said before, I honestly dont care what happens, but saying this is how Jagex wanted things is wrong. and there is ample evidence to prove it, most of it based on the time difference of releases and obvious oversights in the release of pvp worlds (many of which are your own examples in support of this).

 

 

 

Good day.

[Ravenkana]

sorry SOMA, (an honest mistake on my part, settle down... you've just shown you've got serious temperment issues :lol: )

 

 

 

As for coding, true, I'm no expert, But I can make the assumption that they dont code everything ground up everysingle time, this would be inefficient and costly. What I do know about programming, especially in games like this, is that ground and open space are generally precoded, and a simple click and drag function to implement. After which, they augment depths and make their obstacles.

 

 

 

What I'm almost sure they dont do, is go through and tick off block range before assuming that you CAN range. All allowing something says to me is that they didnt block it, that doesnt mean they intended for things to be the way they are.

 

 

 

As a base layout for new areas, the ground is precoded, because all the ground is the same from a coding standpoint. After they shape the area, they then go in and design the details, such as textures, bumps, hills, trees rocks etc. most of these objects are also precoded, so they dont have to code how characters react when a tree is in their way every time they add a new tree. By you're statement, you assume that they code everything from scratch each time they add something, which clearly shows you dont know how an end product game is coded and produced.

 

 

 

So no, they dont go through every tile of ground and code in whether you can range over it or not, they have default ground that they spread out, and it is assumed as "open" or "free" space, where all actions are open, such as walking and for that matter ranging. you cant range over an area you cant walk on, with the exception of fences, which are coded as a default to allow ranged. This means that Jagex didnt worry about their default programming when they implemented the ditch. This means that right now, the fact rangers can abuse this area is in fact a bug, as it is misuse of programming, that they overlooked.

 

 

 

So, we're left with two questions:

 

 

 

1) Did Jagex implement the ditch in full awareness that a player could range over it?

 

 

 

2) Is the ditch such a problem to PvP that it needs to be changed?

 

 

 

My opinion is yes and no, respectively.

1. No. They never did. See, in case you've forgotten, originally you COULD NOT shoot projectiles over it, reason being only one side was PvP.

 

 

 

2. Yes, it needs to be changed. Not only are warriors affected, but mages get the short end as well. Though they CAN beat warriors, they cannot beat rangers. But rangers can beat warriors. And other rangers. And mages. See? The only REAL winner of this combat triangle is the ranger. There's our problem.

[Obtaurian]

sorry SOMA, (an honest mistake on my part, settle down... you've just shown you've got serious temperment issues :lol: )

 

 

 

As for coding, true, I'm no expert, But I can make the assumption that they dont code everything ground up everysingle time, this would be inefficient and costly. What I do know about programming, especially in games like this, is that ground and open space are generally precoded, and a simple click and drag function to implement. After which, they augment depths and make their obstacles.

 

 

 

What I'm almost sure they dont do, is go through and tick off block range before assuming that you CAN range. All allowing something says to me is that they didnt block it, that doesnt mean they intended for things to be the way they are.

 

 

 

As a base layout for new areas, the ground is precoded, because all the ground is the same from a coding standpoint. After they shape the area, they then go in and design the details, such as textures, bumps, hills, trees rocks etc. most of these objects are also precoded, so they dont have to code how characters react when a tree is in their way every time they add a new tree. By you're statement, you assume that they code everything from scratch each time they add something, which clearly shows you dont know how an end product game is coded and produced.

 

 

 

So no, they dont go through every tile of ground and code in whether you can range over it or not, they have default ground that they spread out, and it is assumed as "open" or "free" space, where all actions are open, such as walking and for that matter ranging. you cant range over an area you cant walk on, with the exception of fences, which are coded as a default to allow ranged. This means that Jagex didnt worry about their default programming when they implemented the ditch. This means that right now, the fact rangers can abuse this area is in fact a bug, as it is misuse of programming, that they overlooked.

 

 

 

So, we're left with two questions:

 

 

 

1) Did Jagex implement the ditch in full awareness that a player could range over it?

 

 

 

2) Is the ditch such a problem to PvP that it needs to be changed?

 

 

 

My opinion is yes and no, respectively.

1. No. They never did. See, in case you've forgotten, originally you COULD NOT shoot projectiles over it, reason being only one side was PvP.

 

 

 

2. Yes, it needs to be changed. Not only are warriors affected, but mages get the short end as well. Though they CAN beat warriors, they cannot beat rangers. But rangers can beat warriors. And other rangers. And mages. See? The only REAL winner of this combat triangle is the ranger. There's our problem.

 

 

 

1. You were always able to range/mage over the ditch. Players often use crumble undead on the skeletons.

 

 

 

2. No, it doesn't. There are plenty of areas in Runescape that compliment each combat class. This has been discussed IN DETAIL within this thread, and I can only assume that you did not read it thoroughly.

[Ravenkana]

sorry SOMA, (an honest mistake on my part, settle down... you've just shown you've got serious temperment issues :lol: )

 

 

 

As for coding, true, I'm no expert, But I can make the assumption that they dont code everything ground up everysingle time, this would be inefficient and costly. What I do know about programming, especially in games like this, is that ground and open space are generally precoded, and a simple click and drag function to implement. After which, they augment depths and make their obstacles.

 

 

 

What I'm almost sure they dont do, is go through and tick off block range before assuming that you CAN range. All allowing something says to me is that they didnt block it, that doesnt mean they intended for things to be the way they are.

 

 

 

As a base layout for new areas, the ground is precoded, because all the ground is the same from a coding standpoint. After they shape the area, they then go in and design the details, such as textures, bumps, hills, trees rocks etc. most of these objects are also precoded, so they dont have to code how characters react when a tree is in their way every time they add a new tree. By you're statement, you assume that they code everything from scratch each time they add something, which clearly shows you dont know how an end product game is coded and produced.

 

 

 

So no, they dont go through every tile of ground and code in whether you can range over it or not, they have default ground that they spread out, and it is assumed as "open" or "free" space, where all actions are open, such as walking and for that matter ranging. you cant range over an area you cant walk on, with the exception of fences, which are coded as a default to allow ranged. This means that Jagex didnt worry about their default programming when they implemented the ditch. This means that right now, the fact rangers can abuse this area is in fact a bug, as it is misuse of programming, that they overlooked.

 

 

 

So, we're left with two questions:

 

 

 

1) Did Jagex implement the ditch in full awareness that a player could range over it?

 

 

 

2) Is the ditch such a problem to PvP that it needs to be changed?

 

 

 

My opinion is yes and no, respectively.

1. No. They never did. See, in case you've forgotten, originally you COULD NOT shoot projectiles over it, reason being only one side was PvP.

 

 

 

2. Yes, it needs to be changed. Not only are warriors affected, but mages get the short end as well. Though they CAN beat warriors, they cannot beat rangers. But rangers can beat warriors. And other rangers. And mages. See? The only REAL winner of this combat triangle is the ranger. There's our problem.

 

 

 

1. You were always able to range/mage over the ditch. Players often use crumble undead on the skeletons.

 

 

 

2. No, it doesn't. There are plenty of areas in Runescape that compliment each combat class. This has been discussed IN DETAIL within this thread, and I can only assume that you did not read it thoroughly.

1. Are skeletons players? If so, then this was foreseen and intended by Jagex. If not, than this occured through an oversight- it never occured to them this would happen.

 

 

 

2. Since you say that plenty of areas complement each combat class, name one that complements Melee and one that complements Magic more than ranging.

[Obtaurian]

1. Are skeletons players? If so, then this was foreseen and intended by Jagex. If not, than this occured through an oversight- it never occured to them this would happen.

 

 

 

2. Since you say that plenty of areas complement each combat class, name one that complements Melee and one that complements Magic more than ranging.

 

 

 

1. No, they're not, but as Soma pointed out, Jagex at one point made the decision to allow players to range over the ditch. Players do all kinds of things that Jagex did not intend.

 

 

 

2. Any area on the map that is mostly devoid of obstacles would be favorable for melee, or anywhere where a warrior can corner and trap another player. This includes the entire Kharidian desert, and large parts of the Wilderness. You're welcome to take a glance at the world map to find others.

 

 

 

Mages are advantaegous near obstacles, like rangers, obviously. But mages also have the benefit of being able to stop their opponents, so any open expanses would work for a mage as well.

 

 

 

Rangers also have Lletya, cowpens, etc. A little bit of creativity goes a long way, especially when we have all of Runescape in which to battle. I should not have to point out that terrain now plays a major role in PvP.

[Madmanpur3]

Brando, you keep on saying it's a bug when it's clear that it's not a bug in the code sense, and if you look at it as a bug in the "it's not what the programmers intended to happen" sense, then most of the game is a bug...

 

 

 

And if they were to change it, that in no way, shape, or form means that it was a bug...they've changed a million things that weren't bugs.

[ValaraZ]

How about saradomin makes a superawesome invisible wallthingie between wilderness and non wilderness.

 

 

 

and through this wall no arrow, spell, player, familiar, anything can come through.

 

 

 

Will that fix it?

 

 

 

If not i'm sure guthix can make another one also right next to it so no chickens can go out to wildy either. =D>

[1245780]

I dont think you should be able to range over the ditch but if ranging over the ditch is possible then i should be able to go to the roof of a building and range down on players.

[Ravenkana]

Brando, you keep on saying it's a bug when it's clear that it's not a bug in the code sense, and if you look at it as a bug in the "it's not what the programmers intended to happen" sense, then most of the game is a bug...

 

 

 

And if they were to change it, that in no way, shape, or form means that it was a bug...they've changed a million things that weren't bugs.

But what about the Dragon Full Helm drop? Obviously, Jagex implemented it themselves. But now, several weeks later, they're saying it's a bug. Isn't the ditch a strikingly similar situation?

[Psycho_Robot]

Everyone who says that Jagex specifically decided to allow rangers to shoot over the ditch, HOW ON EARTH DO YOU KNOW?! Were you working with RuneScape programmers? Did you have an interview with Andrew Gower? Do you possess an uncanny ability to read people's minds to find their intentions from nearly a year ago?

 

 

 

And even if they DID specifically allow players to range over the ditch, they never thought that players would be able to fight each other across the ditch, as it was not in the wilderness. Jagex might have made it so that players could shoot guards or skeletons. But I can guarantee you that while that ditch was being programmed, no one at Jagex said to themselves "I'll make players able to shoot over this ditch so that a year from now, if we decide to make worlds PVP, it can give players using ranged an enormous advantage."

[Muddybob]

I dont think you should be able to range over the ditch but if ranging over the ditch is possible then i should be able to go to the roof of a building and range down on players.

 

If you can find a roof you can range off of sure, go ahead.

 

 

 

Brando, you keep on saying it's a bug when it's clear that it's not a bug in the code sense, and if you look at it as a bug in the "it's not what the programmers intended to happen" sense, then most of the game is a bug...

 

 

 

And if they were to change it, that in no way, shape, or form means that it was a bug...they've changed a million things that weren't bugs.

But what about the Dragon Full Helm drop? Obviously, Jagex implemented it themselves. But now, several weeks later, they're saying it's a bug. Isn't the ditch a strikingly similar situation?

 

 

 

I don't see in ANY way how this is similar. D Full Helm, I don't know what they were thinking. It probably wasn't a bug and it was more probably of people unhappy about it cause it would push more and more of them into the market. But that's just getting off topic.

 

 

 

Please try to explain WHY the DFH situation has to do with this? I fail to see how them making a mistake/changing something to please the crowd is similar to them making something to help players.

 

 

 

Everyone who says that Jagex specifically decided to allow rangers to shoot over the ditch, HOW ON EARTH DO YOU KNOW?! Were you working with RuneScape programmers? Did you have an interview with Andrew Gower? Do you possess an uncanny ability to read people's minds to find their intentions from nearly a year ago?

 

 

 

And even if they DID specifically allow players to range over the ditch, they never thought that players would be able to fight each other across the ditch, as it was not in the wilderness. Jagex might have made it so that players could shoot guards or skeletons. But I can guarantee you that while that ditch was being programmed, no one at Jagex said to themselves "I'll make players able to shoot over this ditch so that a year from now, if we decide to make worlds PVP, it can give players using ranged an enormous advantage."

 

 

 

So they did, so what? If they didn't, so what? I bet they didn't intend to create massive market fluctuations by setting random prices on the GE items. Do you have any of those experiences that you have listed? Probably not, so you can't make that argument legitimate. Wait, what are you even trying to argue? That we don't have the right to voice our theories? Infringement on the freedom of speech? You have to remember the Jagex removed the wilderness, there weren't intending on putting it back until now due to popular demand. So that point isn't really fair to make.

[Pikmin_Warrior]

Hmmm...I've noticed a rather strange thing going on in this thread...

 

 

 

When those in this thread who oppose using this glitch, like Brando, are given an arguement, they read it. The soak in the info, look for a weak spot, and strike to shatter the opponents offense.

 

 

 

As for those of you who like this little case of bug abuse, your doing something completely different. When an arguement is hurled your way, you completely ignore it, and give a huge speech each time, but always leading to the same basic statement. That statement is, of course, "OMFG NOOB! JAGEX MADES IT SO RANGERS COULD BE GIVEN A CHANCE!!!"

 

 

 

I may have blown that last part out of proportion, but thats basically whats going on. The side against this listens to their opponent, and those for it are whiny noobs who won't listen to anything. -.-

[1245780]

I dont think you should be able to range over the ditch but if ranging over the ditch is possible then i should be able to go to the roof of a building and range down on players.

 

If you can find a roof you can range off of sure, go ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What?

[brando13a]

You have to remember the Jagex removed the wilderness, there weren't intending on putting it back until now due to popular demand. So that point isn't really fair to make.

 

 

 

Let me start by saying: I absolutely love when people do my work for me without noticing it. You just pick up a shovel and dig dig dig a hole for yourself to lay down in and let me bury you alive :lol:

 

 

 

You sir just proved my point quite clearly. When Jagex removed the wilderness (a point AFTER the creation of the ditch) they had no intent to have pvp worlds. Which means, they had no intent for people to be attacking (ranging) over the ditch. Which means this whole discussion, is based on something Jagex basically forgot about in the process of making pvp worlds, after they got rid of pking with NO INTENT of bringing it back, which means they had no way of knowing that the ditch would act like this, or be used like this!

 

 

 

BAM thankyou!

 

 

 

So the ditch was never meant to be used as a ranged safespot- as said by you yourself. Jagex didnt knowingly bestow this godly "gift" to rangers, it was a mistake, and rangers just happened to notice and take advantage.

[Psycho_Robot]

So they did, so what? If they didn't, so what? I bet they didn't intend to create massive market fluctuations by setting random prices on the GE items.

 

So you listed another thing done wrong that Jagex should fix? Are you saying that something shouldn't be fixed because something else hasn't been fixed? That's hardly productive.

 

Do you have any of those experiences that you have listed? Probably not, so you can't make that argument legitimate.Wait, what are you even trying to argue?

 

Did I say I did? No. In fact I said the opposite. No one has it. So no one can honestly say "Jagex intended rangers to be able to shoot over this ditch". YOU are the person who cannot make your argument legitimate.

 

That we don't have the right to voice our theories? Infringement on the freedom of speech?

 

The way you're talking you AREN'T voicing your theory. You and other proponents for this bug are voicing their opinions as FACTS and presenting them as such. No one can claim to know Jagex's intentions like you are doing.

 

You have to remember the Jagex removed the wilderness, there weren't intending on putting it back until now due to popular demand. So that point isn't really fair to make.

 

With this, you destroy your own argument. You argue that Jagex intended, when they put the ditch in, that they WANTED rangers to be able to attack over this ditch. How could Jagex WANT rangers to be able to use it to hide in PVP worlds, while at the same time they didn't even have plans to MAKE PVP worlds?