Magic Vs Melee

[pureprayer]

I give up~

 

 

 

Magic is NO GOOD without MELEE behind it.

 

 

 

Title edited, remember to use a proper title other wise the topic may be considered spam. ~ Shaz

[Numberkills]

The max melee hit costs 60m.

[basiliko]

Magic is also mostly used for PvP, since most of the pkers are Melee. I would seek someone who is wearing armor and hit him, usually I earn more money than what I lost in runes (Ditch Technique).

 

 

 

Apart from that, Magic is a huge loss and shall have higher damage to trade-off for its cost.

 

 

 

Another way to train magic is in Fist of Guthix. You can wear armor to reduce your magic bonus and still earn xp just for casting, do it for up to 10min. Of course, you will lose alot of rating that way.

 

 

 

Again, I think you have failed to analysis the total cost of acquiring the best equipment and dealing the max damage.

[highlanders]

Magic is great, you can do all sorts of things with it. but it costs too much *.*

[pureprayer]

The max melee hit costs 60m.

 

Yeah but you can fight with it an unlimited amount of times.

 

 

 

And of course you can do Fog but you get flamed alot and it is demoralizing.

 

 

 

Also please tell me when you can do with magic that is "great"

 

 

 

Lastly magic has many uses but you can do many stuff you can do with magic better using melee or ranged.

[compfreak847]

Magic Sucks because it is expensive and there are very few uses for it. The 2 main uses for it would be Barrows and Dagganoth kings. With Melee you don't use any ammo so you hardly lose money when fighting stuff. With Ranged you can pick up your ammo so you don't lose too much money and you can safespot. With Magic it costs alot to use the spells and there is no way of getting your runes back.

 

 

Magic is expensive. But there are many, many uses for it - barrows and daggy kings are NOT the main use for it. It excells in almost any type of PVP combat, and teleports\BTP\freezing\alching\attack slowing spells are invalbule. The extra cost is due to the huge advantages it gives.

 

Now lets see another comparison. For the Strongest Melee Attack (Ags Spec) it costs 0K and hits 75+. For the strongest Ranged Attack it costs 1-2k (Ruby Bolt Spec) and hits a max of 150 (20% of opponents base health) And you can pick up your bolts. Now for the strongest Magic attack it costs over 3k a cast and maxes 32 and you cannot get your runes back at all.

Ruby bolts are 359 each, and max 19. The special rarely activates, and is only worth using on a few boss monsters. AGS costs 60m, can only be used once every 2.5 minutes, has a very slow attack speed, and frequently hits 0s.

 

 

One more Comparison. Magic training SUCKS alot. The main way of training is alching. That costs alot and is many peoples only choice. For melee you can camp about anywhere and make money doing it. With Ranged you can safespot monsters making money or you can chinchompa making 200k xp an hour. Plus they took away "Charging" what used to be the fastest way of magic training.

 

 

Magic training is both faster and cheaper then range training. Superheating ores is nearly 90k XP per hour, with very little loss or a slight profit. Charging is an incredibly stupid and expensive method of training magic - one that is only slightly faster then bursting\barraging rock lobsters, which happens to be the best method of training summoning AND magic.

[Zaaps1]

The max melee hit costs 60m.

 

Yeah but you can fight with it an unlimited amount of times.

 

 

 

And of course you can do Fog but you get flamed alot and it is demoralizing.

 

 

 

Also please tell me when you can do with magic that is "great"

 

 

 

Lastly magic has many uses but you can do many stuff you can do with magic better using melee or ranged.

 

 

 

Teleblock.

 

 

 

Need another?

 

 

 

Ice Barrage

 

 

 

I think what you failed to mention is that magic has special effects to the spells, whereas you only focused on max hits. Bandos GWD has a very high max hit, highest I think (Maybe Zammy?). But look, it and Zammy are the easiest to kill. Why is Saradomin so hard? It's because of the little details on the side, not just raw power.

[compfreak847]

As for maxes, your using the wrong example. Magic is all about combos (see my sig for a good example). Let's try one unknown but powerful combo:

 

 

 

Ice blitz + shaddow barrage

 

A little over 3k, somewhat less then dragonfire bolts that can (sometimes) be picked up.

 

 

 

Max: 50 damage in a single hit.

 

D fire: 60 damage in a single hit.

 

 

 

One key difference, though - both the magic attacks will hit almost 75% of the time on melee armor. The range special is very, very rare. The magic special, besides almost always hitting, will freeze your opponent for 15 seconds AND reduce their attack by 15%, canceling out a super potion. That freeze time can be used to deliver 3 MORE combos, for a total of 200 damage, and an attack redcution to 15% below their base level, regardless of what they are potted to. The minute they are unfrozen, you can run away for 2 seconds - then repeat, almost never getting hit. Very, very effective - assuming your spells are hitting (as they should, with a good magic bonus), you are dealing out an average of 100 damage, 200 max, before your opponent can even touch you! Furthermore, you could freeze and then follow up with 5 blood barrages - dealing an average of 85 damage, and healing yourself 18 damage per freeze, dishing out and healing as much as 9 times that if you are in a multi combat zone, against a lot of enemies. All before they can even touch you, unless they are ranging with a long distance weapon, where the combat triangle comes into play.

[pureprayer]

 

Magic is expensive. But there are many, many uses for it - barrows and daggy kings are NOT the main use for it. It excells in almost any type of PVP combat, and teleports\BTP\freezing\alching\attack slowing spells are invalbule. The extra cost is due to the huge advantages it gives.

 

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Teleports are Great dont get me wrong, but the main use of BTP is for Melee training and tanking, not to take anything away from the spell. Freezing spells are about = to god spells if all things considered. Alching is not used much unless of magic training. Attack Slowing spells are good for pvp.

 

 

 

Ruby bolts are 359 each, and max 19. The special rarely activates, and is only worth using on a few boss monsters. AGS costs 60m, can only be used once every 2.5 minutes, has a very slow attack speed, and frequently hits 0s.

 

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I completely agree with with what you said except when using range or mele vs a mage range can rip through the mage's defense and the AGS is more reliable vs robes.

 

 

 

Magic is slow, like the AGS, but if the meler equips black dragonhide or karils armor the mage has to take many hits with its low defense armor. The mage cannot equip any other armor or it will splash more often.

 

 

 

Magic training is both faster and cheaper then range training. Superheating ores is nearly 90k XP per hour, with very little loss or a slight profit. Charging is an incredibly stupid and expensive method of training magic - one that is only slightly faster then bursting\barraging rock lobsters, which happens to be the best method of training summoning AND magic.

 

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Superheating ores is good xp but as boring as hell and requires a smithing level. I also said Chaging was taken away by puting a limit on the number of times you can do it in a set amount of time.

 

 

 

Ranging Aviansies makes lots of money and is tankable.

 

 

 

If we forget about AGS the DDS is cheap about the cost of 20 barrages and if it reaches a mage it can be devastating as it gets 4 attacks in a row, and if the meler is using dragonhide the mage is almost defenseless.

[pureprayer]

Sorry About the Posting Twice but...

 

 

 

 

 

As for maxes, your using the wrong example. Magic is all about combos (see my sig for a good example). Let's try one unknown but powerful combo:

 

 

 

Ice blitz + shaddow barrage

 

A little over 3k, somewhat less then dragonfire bolts that can (sometimes) be picked up.

 

 

 

Max: 50 damage in a single hit.

 

D fire: 60 damage in a single hit.

 

 

 

One key difference, though - both the magic attacks will hit almost 75% of the time on melee armor. The range special is very, very rare. The magic special, besides almost always hitting, will freeze your opponent for 15 seconds AND reduce their attack by 15%, canceling out a super potion. That freeze time can be used to deliver 3 MORE combos, for a total of 200 damage, and an attack redcution to 15% below their base level, regardless of what they are potted to. The minute they are unfrozen, you can run away for 2 seconds - then repeat, almost never getting hit. Very, very effective - assuming your spells are hitting (as they should, with a good magic bonus), you are dealing out an average of 100 damage, 200 max, before your opponent can even touch you! Furthermore, you could freeze and then follow up with 5 blood barrages - dealing an average of 85 damage, and healing yourself 18 damage per freeze, dishing out and healing as much as 9 times that if you are in a multi combat zone, against a lot of enemies. All before they can even touch you, unless they are ranging with a long distance weapon, where the combat triangle comes into play.

 

 

 

If a Meler wears Ranger Armor the meler can avoid most of the magic attacks and DDS or D Mace the mage. Not to mention in PVP worlds the mager can be attacked in single combat while farcasting.

[konrad]

Magic sucks for you cause you basically can't do any good spells, and your too poor to afford barrages/vengence or even pvp with ancients. Instead of using fire bolt on dragons which yes is boring and sucks. Go try the skill out before saying it sucks. Little brat

[Mylez]

I disagree that magic fails, sorry.

 

Your argument is weak and doesn't really stand-up very well :?

 

 

 

Magic has always been, and always will be powerfull. Just because it's dominated at lower levels by melee and range, doesn't mean it isn't powerfull in the higher levels. You don't like maging? Then don't. Or train it up ;)

 

 

 

Edit: Just thought about you saying that magic sucks when training. LOL.

 

 

 

Magic was by far faster to 70 than any of my melee's, or range.

 

I lost about 500k getting to 70 mage, from 55. That's nothing. Range cost me more than that, and melee has never been a costly skill to train :|

[compfreak847]

 

Superheating ores is good xp but as boring as hell and requires a smithing level. I also said Chaging was taken away by puting a limit on the number of times you can do it in a set amount of time.

 

Boring? No more boring then alching, slightly more clicking then training range. Who cares about charging being taken away? It was a terribly inefficient method of training magic, and virtually no one trained with it. It's like complaining that, say, orge bows rose 3 gp in price. No effect on training, because it wasn't being used anyway.

 

 

 

 

Magic is slow, like the AGS, but if the meler equips black dragonhide or karils armor the mage has to take many hits with its low defense armor. The mage cannot equip any other armor or it will splash more often.

 

Ahrim's top and bottom slash defence: +67

 

Karl's top and bottom slash defence: +62.

 

 

 

Take out your whip and smack that meleer upside the head, you've got more defence them him. If he's stuipd enough to switch to melee armor while your owning him (which he probably is), proceed to barrage then whiprun him if he puts on range armor again.

 

 

 

 

Teleports are Great dont get me wrong, but the main use of BTP is for Melee training and tanking, not to take anything away from the spell. Freezing spells are about = to god spells if all things considered. Alching is not used much unless of magic training. Attack Slowing spells are good for pvp.

What you said has no effect on BTP. Freezing spells are not about equal to god spells with all things considered. What are you talking about? The best god spells will reduce your stats by a VERY tiny amount, without being autocasted. Instead, ancient spells will reduce your stats by 15-30%, freeze you for 20 seconds, heal you quite a bit, poison your opponents, and halve the speed of their attacks. All while hitting just as high as the god spells, CHARGED, with specific capes and staffs - you can't cast a god spell with a whip. Alching is what keeps our economy running; ALL GP in the game, aside from a small amount of store purchases and monster drops, comes from alching - and every GWD drop takes several million coins out of the game. Attack slowing spells are good for virtually ever combat situation, even more so for PVP - casting ONE of these spells before switching to melee will HALVE the damage you take.

 

 

 

I completely agree with with what you said except when using range or mele vs a mage range can rip through the mage's defense and the AGS is more reliable vs robes. Magic is slow, like the AGS, but if the meler equips black dragonhide or karils armor the mage has to take many hits with its low defense armor. The mage cannot equip any other armor or it will splash more often.

Believe it or not, people switch combat styles and armor - that ranger has less melee defence then you; switch to a dh plate for range defence, and rip him apart with dd++ specs. My standard mage outfit looks like this:

 

Verac helm

 

Hitpoints Cape

 

Fury Ammy

 

Diamond bolts (e)

 

Dragonfire shield

 

AH top

 

Ancient staff

 

AH bottom

 

Barrows Gloves

 

Dragon Boots

 

Seer's Ring

 

 

 

+254 slash, +116 magic, +164 range defence - with +12 prayer and +73 magic bonus. Enough that you can destroy a ranger quite quickly by switching to DH plate (for another 80 or so range defence) and speccing him to death. Oh, and you have much more defence then most meleers in karils - in fact, you've got more melee defence then your average meleer in rune\fighter torso, d legs, berserker helm.

[pureprayer]

I disagree that magic fails, sorry.

 

Your argument is weak and doesn't really stand-up very well :?

 

 

 

Magic has always been, and always will be powerfull. Just because it's dominated at lower levels by melee and range, doesn't mean it isn't powerfull in the higher levels. You don't like maging? Then don't. Or train it up ;)

 

 

 

Edit: Just thought about you saying that magic sucks when training. LOL.

 

 

 

Magic was by far faster to 70 than any of my melee's, or range.

 

I lost about 500k getting to 70 mage, from 55. That's nothing. Range cost me more than that, and melee has never been a costly skill to train :|

 

 

 

I mean when magic sucks when training is the fact that there are very minimal amounts of options like from 55 to 70 what did you do? Alc? And when you ask 95% of rs players how they trained magic they will say "alc" or DKS. How does range cost you more than 500k from 55 to 70 j/w. Magic feels endless when training forever and with melee or range I can almost AFK train.

 

 

 

I love maging but it is RSI prone when training and it is fast to train but there is almost no way to get it up by making money except MTA which is boring as hell (telekentic theater) and DKS which can be a little fun.

 

 

 

Magic sucks for you cause you basically can't do any good spells, and your too poor to afford barrages/vengence or even pvp with ancients. Instead of using fire bolt on dragons which yes is boring and sucks. Go try the skill out before saying it sucks. Little brat

 

 

 

Did you read the whole thread or just the title? Ancients are practically dead in Pvp because of people being able to attack you when your farcasting someone. Lunars is what i consider a "Skillers Handbook" With spells like "Bake Pie" or "String Amulets". No one is ever going to Pvp Kill someone using only magic in the lunar spellbook because Vengeance is the only spell that does any damage.

 

 

 

Sure Vengeance is great but what if your opponent hits a 4 on you and you do 3 damage to them?

 

 

 

And lastly Vengeance DDS is good but DDS is melee and I am complaining about the unreliability of magic and magic alone.

[RSBDavid]

It is mainly used for pvping. You can ice barrage then ags spec and kill just about anyone caught off guard.

[Star_Fox]

The max melee hit costs 60m.

 

 

 

 

 

you mean 5m?

[Zierro]

Lol, someone said "little brat". :lol:

 

 

 

Anyways, I don't think Magic sucks. It's like the most versatile skill in Runescape, even more so than Crafting. Power-training it might suck, but that's how most skills are.

[Mylez]

The max melee hit costs 60m.

 

 

 

 

 

you mean 5m?

 

 

 

Have fun buying a GS for 5m ;)

 

If you're implying Dharoks or something similar, it's not quite the same #-o

[Zierro]

Well now you can get the max hit for free since we can lend.

[compfreak847]

I disagree that magic fails, sorry.

 

Your argument is weak and doesn't really stand-up very well :?

 

 

 

Magic has always been, and always will be powerfull. Just because it's dominated at lower levels by melee and range, doesn't mean it isn't powerfull in the higher levels. You don't like maging? Then don't. Or train it up ;)

 

 

 

Edit: Just thought about you saying that magic sucks when training. LOL.

 

 

 

Magic was by far faster to 70 than any of my melee's, or range.

 

I lost about 500k getting to 70 mage, from 55. That's nothing. Range cost me more than that, and melee has never been a costly skill to train :|

 

 

 

I mean when magic sucks when training is the fact that there are very minimal amounts of options like from 55 to 70 what did you do? Alc? And when you ask 95% of rs players how they trained magic they will say "alc" or DKS. How does range cost you more than 500k from 55 to 70 j/w. Magic feels endless when training forever and with melee or range I can almost AFK train.

 

 

 

I love maging but it is RSI prone when training and it is fast to train but there is almost no way to get it up by making money except MTA which is boring as hell (telekentic theater) and DKS which can be a little fun.

 

 

 

Magic sucks for you cause you basically can't do any good spells, and your too poor to afford barrages/vengence or even pvp with ancients. Instead of using fire bolt on dragons which yes is boring and sucks. Go try the skill out before saying it sucks. Little brat

 

 

 

Did you read the whole thread or just the title? Ancients are practically dead in Pvp because of people being able to attack you when your farcasting someone. Lunars is what i consider a "Skillers Handbook" With spells like "Bake Pie" or "String Amulets". No one is ever going to Pvp Kill someone using only magic in the lunar spellbook because Vengeance is the only spell that does any damage.

 

 

 

Sure Vengeance is great but what if your opponent hits a 4 on you and you do 3 damage to them?

 

 

 

And lastly Vengeance DDS is good but DDS is melee and I am complaining about the unreliability of magic and magic alone.

 

 

I mean when magic sucks when training is the fact that there are very minimal amounts of options like from 55 to 70 what did you do? Alc? And when you ask 95% of rs players how they trained magic they will say "alc" or DKS. How does range cost you more than 500k from 55 to 70 j/w. Magic feels endless when training forever and with melee or range I can almost AFK train.

 

 

'Scuse me? Alching happens to be 65k XP per hour - more then you get powertraining range, and it STILL isn't even close to the best magic training, superheating, which also happens to be the fastest way to training smithing AND magic - at the same time! I also did quite a bit of training at MTA - 85-90k XP per hour, at a low cost.

 

 

 

Ancients are practically dead in Pvp because of people being able to attack you when your farcasting someone. Lunars is what i consider a "Skillers Handbook" With spells like "Bake Pie" or "String Amulets". No one is ever going to Pvp Kill someone using only magic in the lunar spellbook because Vengeance is the only spell that does any damage.

 

What? Just because someone else is going to attack you doesn't mean they will. The only place that really applies is fight pits or clan wars, where you can use multi spells to do much more damage. And vengeance is an UNBELIEVABLE asset in fight pits. By the time your opponent kills you, your veng will have done 30-40 damage by itself - a 40% advantage. Take it from an experienced fight pits player (5.5 furys). Spellbook swap also means you can HALVE the speed of your opponents attack, for another 100% advantage - giving you 2.4 times the hitting power over an opponent of your level.

 

 

 

 

Sure Vengeance is great but what if your opponent hits a 4 on you and you do 3 damage to them?

 

Then you cast another veng. What if they AGS spec you for 78 and you veng them for 59 while speccing them back for another 78 and an instant KO?

 

 

 

 

And lastly Vengeance DDS is good but DDS is melee and I am complaining about the unreliability of magic and magic alone.

 

Magic alone will KILL melee alone. Melee alone will KILL Range alone. Range alone will KILL Magic alone. You can't go arguing about only one combat style; everyone switches them up.

 

 

 

I give up~

 

 

 

Magic is NO GOOD without MELEE behind it.

 

Melee is NO GOOD without range behind it. Any half decent mage will DESTROY a meleer. It's the combat triangle. People don't just go with one combat style; the few that do stand there and whine about farcasting while getting ripped apart by ice barrages.

 

 

 

Well now you can get the max hit for free since we can lend.

Not quite the same - and you generally have to pay for an AGS, unless you have a generous friend. That 200k per hour for 1 spec every 3 minutes is going to cost you more then your barrages, or 300k for 20 = 15k per spec - and whip is a better weapon for non-spec meleeing.

[Ravenkana]

As for maxes, your using the wrong example. Magic is all about combos (see my sig for a good example). Let's try one unknown but powerful combo:

 

 

 

Ice blitz + shaddow barrage

 

A little over 3k, somewhat less then dragonfire bolts that can (sometimes) be picked up.

 

 

 

Max: 50 damage in a single hit.

 

D fire: 60 damage in a single hit.

 

 

 

One key difference, though - both the magic attacks will hit almost 75% of the time on melee armor. The range special is very, very rare. The magic special, besides almost always hitting, will freeze your opponent for 15 seconds AND reduce their attack by 15%, canceling out a super potion. That freeze time can be used to deliver 3 MORE combos, for a total of 200 damage, and an attack redcution to 15% below their base level, regardless of what they are potted to. The minute they are unfrozen, you can run away for 2 seconds - then repeat, almost never getting hit. Very, very effective - assuming your spells are hitting (as they should, with a good magic bonus), you are dealing out an average of 100 damage, 200 max, before your opponent can even touch you! Furthermore, you could freeze and then follow up with 5 blood barrages - dealing an average of 85 damage, and healing yourself 18 damage per freeze, dishing out and healing as much as 9 times that if you are in a multi combat zone, against a lot of enemies. All before they can even touch you, unless they are ranging with a long distance weapon, where the combat triangle comes into play.

But, usually, they'll have some dragonhide to slap on. Cheap, effective, and does not reduce melee stats. True, they'll still be frozen, but with protect item, even if they started it, they won't lose their Godsword. If you die, you'll lose every one of your runes.

[compfreak847]

As for maxes, your using the wrong example. Magic is all about combos (see my sig for a good example). Let's try one unknown but powerful combo:

 

 

 

Ice blitz + shaddow barrage

 

A little over 3k, somewhat less then dragonfire bolts that can (sometimes) be picked up.

 

 

 

Max: 50 damage in a single hit.

 

D fire: 60 damage in a single hit.

 

 

 

One key difference, though - both the magic attacks will hit almost 75% of the time on melee armor. The range special is very, very rare. The magic special, besides almost always hitting, will freeze your opponent for 15 seconds AND reduce their attack by 15%, canceling out a super potion. That freeze time can be used to deliver 3 MORE combos, for a total of 200 damage, and an attack redcution to 15% below their base level, regardless of what they are potted to. The minute they are unfrozen, you can run away for 2 seconds - then repeat, almost never getting hit. Very, very effective - assuming your spells are hitting (as they should, with a good magic bonus), you are dealing out an average of 100 damage, 200 max, before your opponent can even touch you! Furthermore, you could freeze and then follow up with 5 blood barrages - dealing an average of 85 damage, and healing yourself 18 damage per freeze, dishing out and healing as much as 9 times that if you are in a multi combat zone, against a lot of enemies. All before they can even touch you, unless they are ranging with a long distance weapon, where the combat triangle comes into play.

But, usually, they'll have some dragonhide to slap on. Cheap, effective, and does not reduce melee stats. True, they'll still be frozen, but with protect item, even if they started it, they won't lose their Godsword. If you die, you'll lose every one of your runes.

 

They slap on dragonhide, you can melee them, attacking and sidestepping to not get hit - and your ahrims have HIGHER SLASH DEFENCE then their armor. If they put on melee armor, you can simply continue to mage them. And losing your runes really isn't that big of a concern; the cost is far outstripped by melee\range\mage armor.

[Inuashakent]

The cost of the Melee armor is not significant, because you can always resell it. Also, while it is true that you can hit 50's with Magic, it really isn't practical. First, because that max is extremely slow due to it taking the time equal to two casts. Second, it can't be used as a KO weapon due to you wasting a whole turn just for the hit to activate. Also, you have much lower defense, as you can't wear actual armor while casting. If they wear Dragonhide armor, they win. You argue that they can switch equipment... so can the one not maging, no?

 

 

 

Magic is strong, but not comparable to Melee and Range. Also, it costs a ton more. It should only be used in conjunction with another combat style, which will synergize Magic.

[highlanders]

.......?

 

 

 

If you have the money, you can use just magic. The defensive style allows you to get *expensive* def points. You get hitpoints, and magic exp. So if you only want to use magic, it's possible, but you lose a lot of money unfortunately.

 

 

 

But if you don't like melee and prefer not to use here's a word for you: ranged ! Ranged is cheap, the accumulator saves you tons of arrows, and you can make a profit on several monsters.

[compfreak847]

The cost of the Melee armor is not significant, because you can always resell it. Also, while it is true that you can hit 50's with Magic, it really isn't practical. First, because that max is extremely slow due to it taking the time equal to two casts. Second, it can't be used as a KO weapon due to you wasting a whole turn just for the hit to activate. Also, you have much lower defense, as you can't wear actual armor while casting. If they wear Dragonhide armor, they win. You argue that they can switch equipment... so can the one not maging, no?

 

 

 

Magic is strong, but not comparable to Melee and Range. Also, it costs a ton more. It should only be used in conjunction with another combat style, which will synergize Magic.

 

Ehh? Ahrim slash defence > karils slash defence. If you melee, you have the advantage.