Slayer..

[Obtaurian]

Ray doesn't realize that he's posting in a debate forum.

 

 

 

EDIT: To unspam. I'll address your "Lololol @ k4lfites" comment. Bauke has proven you very wrong on the subject of statistics and averages, so no need to go there.

 

 

 

The time spent hopping worlds to find an empty Kalphites spot is a huge waste of potential Slayer experience. They are by and far one of the most crowded Slayer monsters. You COULD slay Kalphite Guardians, but they are quite slow, and slow to respawn, even on high population worlds. Kalphites are just too crowded. Over time, some monsters and methods become obsolete whether due to crowding or because better methods and monsters are available. Avianses are heading in that direction, for example.

 

 

 

Another example is Bloodvelds in the Slayer Tower. It is quite difficult to get two spawns to yourself, which is the minimum you'd need to slay with any sort of efficiency there. Not to mention that Mutated Velds are much better experience, and have much better drops, and as such they make Slayer Tower Velds null. If Black Demons in the Chaos Tunnels were to suddenly be as crowded as Kalphites, they would also become obsolete. Unlike Kalphites, however, that would truly be tragic.

[mmmcannibalism]

you can get an average xp per hour value, it will of course only work over large values for time but thats fine if your getting a large amount of experience.

 

 

 

For instance, lets say I have a 20 sided dice that has 5 sides with an orange on them 5 with an apple and 10 with a kiwi

 

 

 

for each role of the dice(how do you spell singular for dice its escaping me) you have a 1/4 chance of an orange 1/4 chance of an apple and 1/2 chance of a kiwi. For the first ten roles I may get 75% kiwi 25% apple; however, if I role the die 5000 times im going to be very close to a ratio of 1/2 kiwi 1/4 apple 1/4 orange. The same applies for slayer tasks, except there are more then four possible xp/hour sides(tasks) that can come up.

 

 

 

Another example, your driving some long distance and you arent going the same speed at all times. We can still get a value for your average speed by dividing distance by time. With slayer you could earn say 1mil xp while keeping a careful track of your time. The average you get should be very close to the real number and if averaged with other peoples good results we get a "correct" value.

[RayOxide]

you can get an average xp per hour value, it will of course only work over large values for time but thats fine if your getting a large amount of experience.

 

 

 

For instance, lets say I have a 20 sided dice that has 5 sides with an orange on them 5 with an apple and 10 with a kiwi

 

 

 

for each role of the dice(how do you spell singular for dice its escaping me) you have a 1/4 chance of an orange 1/4 chance of an apple and 1/2 chance of a kiwi. For the first ten roles I may get 75% kiwi 25% apple; however, if I role the die 5000 times im going to be very close to a ratio of 1/2 kiwi 1/4 apple 1/4 orange. The same applies for slayer tasks, except there are more then four possible xp/hour sides(tasks) that can come up.

 

 

 

Another example, your driving some long distance and you arent going the same speed at all times. We can still get a value for your average speed by dividing distance by time. With slayer you could earn say 1mil xp while keeping a careful track of your time. The average you get should be very close to the real number and if averaged with other peoples good results we get a "correct" value.

 

 

 

Ok lets see, Im debating my point. How dont I see how it isnt?

 

 

 

And also, Im stating that the "average" of slayer xp per hour, is highly inaccurate due to 'chance' (basically random) tasks. Im not saying there's no way, Im saying that the accuracy of it is highly debatable.

 

 

 

For kalphites, It's been like 4 weeks since I have been there, but I dont remember the soldier room being crowded at all.

[Obtaurian]

you can get an average xp per hour value, it will of course only work over large values for time but thats fine if your getting a large amount of experience.

 

 

 

For instance, lets say I have a 20 sided dice that has 5 sides with an orange on them 5 with an apple and 10 with a kiwi

 

 

 

for each role of the dice(how do you spell singular for dice its escaping me) you have a 1/4 chance of an orange 1/4 chance of an apple and 1/2 chance of a kiwi. For the first ten roles I may get 75% kiwi 25% apple; however, if I role the die 5000 times im going to be very close to a ratio of 1/2 kiwi 1/4 apple 1/4 orange. The same applies for slayer tasks, except there are more then four possible xp/hour sides(tasks) that can come up.

 

 

 

Another example, your driving some long distance and you arent going the same speed at all times. We can still get a value for your average speed by dividing distance by time. With slayer you could earn say 1mil xp while keeping a careful track of your time. The average you get should be very close to the real number and if averaged with other peoples good results we get a "correct" value.

 

 

 

Ok lets see, Im debating my point. How dont I see how it isnt?

 

 

 

And also, Im stating that the "average" of slayer xp per hour, is highly inaccurate due to 'chance' (basically random) tasks. Im not saying there's no way, Im saying that the accuracy of it is highly debatable.

 

 

 

For kalphites, It's been like 4 weeks since I have been there, but I dont remember the soldier room being crowded at all.

 

 

 

Bauke and mmmcanibalism have already proven you wrong. Any experienced Slayer will tell you that Kalphites are too crowded to be any good.

 

 

 

You're going no where with this.

[RayOxide]

Hard to believe that 2 people are proving me wrong when they probably have kalphites on their blacklist.

 

 

 

And grats on skipping the rest.

[Lord_Shalaj]

Ok lets see, Im debating my point. How dont I see how it isnt?

 

 

 

And also, Im stating that the "average" of slayer xp per hour, is highly inaccurate due to 'chance' (basically random) tasks. Im not saying there's no way, Im saying that the accuracy of it is highly debatable.

 

 

 

Like I said, if you cancel out the rubbish tasks, (hardly 4-5), then you're average slayer experience will always have a limit of say 25k xp/hour. It can only increase, but the minimum will be the same.

 

 

 

For kalphites, It's been like 4 weeks since I have been there, but I dont remember the soldier room being crowded at all.

 

 

 

I doubt that it is not crowded, but thats not the only reason they are one of the worst tasks. Want to know why? -

 

 

 

1) Very boring

 

2) Rubbish drops.

 

3) You make loss all way round.

 

4) They take time.

 

 

 

Basically, all the factors that make a rubbish task.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[langer]

1) Very boring (true but a matter of opinion, so not debate worthy)

 

2) Rubbish drops. (true but kalphites are among the best blue charms dropper along with aberrant specters, but they drop less than dark beasts and gargoyles)

 

3) You make loss all way round. (only if you cannon them... which you should considering someone else will probably gonna steal your spot with a cannon)

 

4) They take time. (they are pretty fast slayer xp with a cannon and most slayer task will take time except daganoths with a cannon aslo)

[Bauke]

Hard to believe that 2 people are proving me wrong when they probably have kalphites on their blacklist.

 

 

 

And grats on skipping the rest.

 

Imo, kalphites are heaven. A relative large ammount of blue charms and very nice cannon fodder.

[nicrune007]

Hard to believe that 2 people are proving me wrong when they probably have kalphites on their blacklist.

 

 

 

And grats on skipping the rest.

 

Imo, kalphites are heaven. A relative large ammount of blue charms and very nice cannon fodder.

 

 

 

Yeah 10-mins-aggro time = 45 kalphites, task over in like 3-4 moves.

 

Not sure why people says it crowded, probably of timezone or so, not alot of people are online when i play. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

And Ray, of course we can't get a very accurate slayer xp rate, and why would you need a accurate slayer xp rate?

[Lord_Shalaj]

true but a matter of opinion, so not debate worthy

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

 

 

true but kalphites are among the best blue charms dropper along with aberrant specters, but they drop less than dark beasts and gargoyles

 

 

 

If you take Kalphites individually, it is debateable whether they are good monsters to kill or not. Mainly based on how much you value time/money/charms. However, in the case of Slayer, you have to think further, you have think that you could have gotten a much better task than this if you had banned these. You mention only Gargoyles and Dark beasts drop blue charms. Now what if you had got those in place of Kalphites? You would have made a hefty profit ALONG with more quantity of charms.

 

In my opinion, from the list I posted on the previous page, there are only 4-5 bad tasks. All the other 20 odd tasks are way better than these 4-5. And Kalphites is in the bad tasks category. Compare them to the other tasks which I have mentioned and you will see.

 

 

 

only if you cannon them... which you should considering someone else will probably gonna steal your spot with a cannon

 

 

 

Seeing as you mention cannoning is the best way, as you can keep your spot, the money factor then does count.

 

 

 

they are pretty fast slayer xp with a cannon and most slayer task will take time except daganoths with a cannon aslo

 

 

 

Seeing nicrune's post which says he kills 45 Kalphites in 10 minutes. So a task of 180 takes 40 minutes? We won't count the loss yet. Now assume you had a Dagannoth task instead, 15 minutes cannoning in Lighthouse, 30 minutes normal in Chaos Tunnels (which yield 150k+ profit along). Assume you had an Aberrant Spectres task, you'll take around 1 hour (I know I take around 1 hour as I use up only 1 Geyser), you'll come out with the equal number of charms and profit, around the same slayer experience but you only take 20 minutes extra. You get the idea, don't you?

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[langer]

Yeah those are very valid points. I'm not saying kalphites are amongst the best monsters assigned, just pointing they are not that bad. I don't block them because I don't mind wasting a couples K's for a quick task. I currently have blocked steel dragons (not enough spawns), hellhounds (too much competition and GWD ones don'T drop charms), Suqah (personnal taste, I can't stand those) and Wyverns (these take way too much time either meeleing or ranging IMO).

 

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, they are not my favorite task especially since Smoking Kills got lots of players on Slayer again, meaning lots of players slaying kalphites... leading to the "near-necessity" of carrying a cannon to ensure steady xp. We really need another place to kill kalphites or even another kalphites monster with 100-120 cb with better drops that the soldiers. Even a room with 3 lvls 180-something would be great. 2 only makes you wait for spawn.

[Obtaurian]

And Ray, of course we can't get a very accurate slayer xp rate, and why would you need a accurate slayer xp rate?

 

 

 

If you read the last two pages, you'll see that an accurate Slayer experience rate is very possible, as well as very accurate given a large enough sample size. Getting 99 Slayer will give you the size you need.

 

 

 

Hard to believe that 2 people are proving me wrong when they probably have kalphites on their blacklist.

 

 

 

Oh, I was referring to proving you wrong on the subject of experience rates. I'm glad to see that you aren't arguing the point any longer.

 

 

 

Lord_Shalaj makes a few very good points regarding Kalphites. I highly suggest you read them. I also suggest that you post an argumentative reply, but I suppose that's to be expected.

[langer]

I also suggest that you post an argumentative reply, but I suppose that's to be expected.

 

 

 

That would be a first for Ray, dream on Morning...

[Troacctid]

You will never, ever get faster ranged experience training slayer with ranged than you will training ranged normally. NEVER. It's impossible. It will never be better for money either. Slayer is NOT an efficient way to train ranged.

 

 

 

Likewise, meleeing slayer is ALWAYS faster than traditional ranging (i.e. without chinchompas and cannons).

 

 

 

And that's the answer to this topic right there.

[mmmcannibalism]

average slay rate for an hour of experience mean an about figure.

 

 

 

If you train one hour your rate me be a good chunk off based on task

 

 

 

if you do 10 hours your rate will be closer to the actual average because you will have a mix of fast and slow tasks

 

 

 

if you do 100 hours you will be closer etc.

 

 

 

flip a coin twice, its quite likely you wont get 1 head and 1 tail.

[RayOxide]

I also suggest that you post an argumentative reply, but I suppose that's to be expected.

 

 

 

That would be a first for Ray, dream on Morning...

 

 

 

That's low.

 

Someone hasn't read anything lately.

 

 

 

And Ray, of course we can't get a very accurate slayer xp rate, and why would you need a accurate slayer xp rate?

 

 

 

Well, you dont, it's just annoying when people go along and say you'll get xx slayer xp in xx time, without even noting that it can be xx higher or xx lower.

 

 

 

if you do 10 hours your rate will be closer to the actual average because you will have a mix of fast and slow tasks

 

 

 

if you do 100 hours you will be closer etc.

 

 

 

flip a coin twice, its quite likely you wont get 1 head and 1 tail.

 

 

 

1. Not particularly. In thoughts, yes, but as I stated before, how the hell do you know which tasks you will get (unless you're in a loop)?

 

 

 

2. ^ ^ ^

 

 

 

3. It's 50% chance each side. :|

[Obtaurian]

I also suggest that you post an argumentative reply, but I suppose that's to be expected.

 

 

 

That would be a first for Ray, dream on Morning...

 

 

 

That's low.

 

Someone hasn't read anything lately.

 

 

 

And Ray, of course we can't get a very accurate slayer xp rate, and why would you need a accurate slayer xp rate?

 

 

 

Well, you dont, it's just annoying when people go along and say you'll get xx slayer xp in xx time, without even noting that it can be xx higher or xx lower.

 

 

 

if you do 10 hours your rate will be closer to the actual average because you will have a mix of fast and slow tasks

 

 

 

if you do 100 hours you will be closer etc.

 

 

 

flip a coin twice, its quite likely you wont get 1 head and 1 tail.

 

 

 

1. Not particularly. In thoughts, yes, but as I stated before, how the hell do you know which tasks you will get (unless you're in a loop)?

 

 

 

2. ^ ^ ^

 

 

 

3. It's 50% chance each side. :|

 

 

 

Basic statistics. Google it.

[nicrune007]

 

1. Not particularly. In thoughts, yes, but as I stated before, how the hell do you know which tasks you will get (unless you're in a loop)?

 

 

 

Task that is given out is given at a certain rate. For example Abyssal demon task 7.5%.

 

 

 

Yes of course we will not know what the next task will be, but we do know if i were to do 10000 task, i would have gotten 750 abyssal demon task.

[RayOxide]

Just because something is say, 10% chance doesnt mean you will get it 10 times in 100 times Nic, :|

[langer]

Just because something is say, 10% chance doesnt mean you will get it 10 times in 100 times Nic, :|

 

 

 

That's true, but in the long run, it will average around 10% given a greater sample.

 

 

 

There's a chance that I will not hit at all on a fire giants for 10 straight attempts, after sampling these 10 misses, would it be wise for me to say that training at fire giants gives 0 xp per hour? Probably not. When determining the average rates for slayer, you need a big sample and usually stable combat stats (meaning you don't gain any combat levels in that time frame). After around let's say 50 tasks you should have a pretty accurate average that translate to your combat level. You can expect then to reach that average over a couple tasks but you can't expect to get it every task (daganoths and steel dragons gives way different rates).

[nicrune007]

Just because something is say, 10% chance doesnt mean you will get it 10 times in 100 times Nic, :|

 

 

 

Gahh.. i should have used the word 'about' :oops:

[mister_moocky]

Slayer is a skill, and most people want to train as fast as possible, and melee is faster for most tasks, so people melee.

[RayOxide]

Slayer is a skill, and most people want to train as fast as possible, and melee is faster for most tasks, so people melee.

 

-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.-

 

Just because something is say, 10% chance doesnt mean you will get it 10 times in 100 times Nic, :|

 

 

 

That's true, but in the long run, it will average around 10% given a greater sample.

 

 

 

There's a chance that I will not hit at all on a fire giants for 10 straight attempts, after sampling these 10 misses, would it be wise for me to say that training at fire giants gives 0 xp per hour? Probably not. When determining the average rates for slayer, you need a big sample and usually stable combat stats (meaning you don't gain any combat levels in that time frame). After around let's say 50 tasks you should have a pretty accurate average that translate to your combat level. You can expect then to reach that average over a couple tasks but you can't expect to get it every task (daganoths and steel dragons gives way different rates).

 

 

 

Well, thats kinda yes and no. In the long run, in technicality you'd expect it to have a rough average of it, but then you know for a fact it wont 100% be that number or anything close to it.

 

What's a task given by chaeldar a bit?

 

I havent had anything other than turoths, fire giants, or blue dragons, other than 2 zygomites and 2 basilisks, for probably 20~ tasks. And it isnt a loop.

[Obtaurian]

Slayer is a skill, and most people want to train as fast as possible, and melee is faster for most tasks, so people melee.

 

-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.-

 

Just because something is say, 10% chance doesnt mean you will get it 10 times in 100 times Nic, :|

 

 

 

That's true, but in the long run, it will average around 10% given a greater sample.

 

 

 

There's a chance that I will not hit at all on a fire giants for 10 straight attempts, after sampling these 10 misses, would it be wise for me to say that training at fire giants gives 0 xp per hour? Probably not. When determining the average rates for slayer, you need a big sample and usually stable combat stats (meaning you don't gain any combat levels in that time frame). After around let's say 50 tasks you should have a pretty accurate average that translate to your combat level. You can expect then to reach that average over a couple tasks but you can't expect to get it every task (daganoths and steel dragons gives way different rates).

 

 

 

Well, thats kinda yes and no. In the long run, in technicality you'd expect it to have a rough average of it, but then you know for a fact it wont 100% be that number or anything close to it.

 

What's a task given by chaeldar a bit?

 

I havent had anything other than turoths, fire giants, or blue dragons, other than 2 zygomites and 2 basilisks, for probably 20~ tasks. And it isnt a loop.

 

 

 

Well, twenty tasks is a very small sample size, so it wont give you your experience per hour.

[langer]

Well, thats kinda yes and no. In the long run, in technicality you'd expect it to have a rough average of it, but then you know for a fact it wont 100% be that number or anything close to it.

 

What's a task given by chaeldar a bit?

 

I havent had anything other than turoths, fire giants, or blue dragons, other than 2 zygomites and 2 basilisks, for probably 20~ tasks. And it isnt a loop

 

 

 

Yes it won't be 100% accurate, that is why we use averages. You kinda contradict yourself there by saying you get a rough average and then saying it won't be close to it. Advanced maths (or simple mathematics for the college graduates on these boards) shows us that taking a large sample from a given population will give us a pretty accurate average of what happens truly.

 

Whenever you use a small sample, the rates and average you will get will have a good chance of deviating a lot form the accurate average. A loop is just a way for a player to convince himself that the system's randomness is broken. There's no such thing as a pre-programmed loop.